#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 28 Oct 2002 (GMT)

Archive Today Yesterday Tomorrow
Pentagram homepage


[00:19:45] <-- wjp has left IRC ("brb")
[00:23:22] --> wjp has joined #pentagram
[00:23:22] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[00:44:44] --> Kirben has joined #pentagram
[00:44:44] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben
[01:04:25] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz...")
[03:53:03] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("enough for now")
[04:03:42] --> Colourless has joined #Pentagram
[04:03:59] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Colourless
[04:59:52] <Colourless> time to write a crusader<->ultima8 shape converter
[04:59:54] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("casts invisibility")
[06:31:12] --- Darke|zzZ is now known as Darke
[09:46:47] <-- Kirben has left IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[09:48:37] --> Kirben has joined #pentagram
[09:48:38] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben
[10:38:57] --> Colourless has joined #Pentagram
[10:39:23] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Colourless
[10:41:19] <Darke> (u8/crusader shape viewer) Have you worked out which one is more flexable yet? Or if one is the subset of the other? *grin*
[10:41:58] <Colourless> they 'are' the same format. crusader is just a 32 bit 'extension' (i.e. anything that was a 16 int is now a 32 bit int)
[10:42:32] * Darke ahhs. Might be worth converting the u8 format straight to the crusader format then.
[10:44:04] <Colourless> agreed
[10:45:27] <Colourless> my work in progress converter load the shapes and stores them in a format that can easily be saved as easy format
[10:45:38] <Colourless> s/easy/eaither/
[10:47:03] * Darke ahhs. Cool.
[10:47:24] <Colourless> s/eaither/either/
[10:52:54] <Colourless> the cursader mouse shape is causing me a bit of grief
[10:54:08] <Colourless> i'm doing something wrong somewhere....
[10:56:26] <Darke> Or they didn't convert it from the U8 version's format? *grin* I didn't even know crusader had a mouse pointer.
[10:56:51] <Colourless> the pointer has about double the amount of frames compared to the u8 one
[11:00:32] <Colourless> the format seems 'wrong'
[11:00:59] <Colourless> the frame offsets don't seem to be pointing to the correct places
[11:02:12] <Darke> That's just weird. Hmm... what was the max amount of ram in a machine that you can play remorse/regret on again?
[11:02:35] <Colourless> from memory it's 64
[11:02:57] * Darke remembered it being 128, but 64 does make sense. *pout*
[11:03:08] * Colourless coughs and says pun not intended
[11:03:09] * Darke just happens to have a win98 machine with 128Meg in it, that's all. *grin*
[11:04:16] <Colourless> i've got a win2k machine with 128 :-)
[11:04:38] <Darke> This was a win2k machine. *grin*
[11:04:57] <Colourless> it 'used' to be a win98 machine with 64 :-)
[11:05:15] <Colourless> i've noticed that dominus has said something about being able to play No Regret with freedos
[11:09:39] <Darke> It's apparently got the same limit as u8, and dominus mentioned 'there is a discussion on if it needs to be limited to 128 RAM', but I've not been able to easily find the original comment. *grin*
[11:14:41] <Colourless> this is the sort of stuff i'm getting when converting that cursader mouse.shp
[11:14:42] <Colourless> num_frames 28
[11:14:42] <Colourless> Frame 0
[11:14:42] <Colourless> frame_offset 146
[11:14:42] <Colourless> frame_length 323
[11:14:42] <Colourless> frame_length 323
[11:14:44] <Colourless> compression 1a
[11:14:46] <Colourless> width 0
[11:14:48] <Colourless> height 0
[11:14:50] <Colourless> xoff 68
[11:14:52] <Colourless> yoff 8c
[11:15:03] <Colourless> compressions 'should' be either 1 or 0
[11:15:27] <Colourless> width and height should obviously be a positive integer :-)
[11:15:42] <Darke> That certainly would be good, yes. *grin*
[11:16:12] <Darke> Is there any information you would find useful if I can get Remorse/Regret to work? *grin*
[11:16:40] <Colourless> nothing i can think of at the moment
[11:21:51] * Darke got a 'Crusader - No Remorse 1.21' header and a 'Loading [....]' progress bar, but that's all for the first try. *grin*
[11:22:05] <Colourless> better than me :-)
[11:22:13] <Colourless> general protection faults all round :-)
[11:24:51] <Colourless> arg, i can't find the game palette, or at least, it doesn't seem like i can
[11:26:15] <Darke> Wow. It's... umm... kinda fun. Not what I expected. *grin*
[11:26:27] <Colourless> explain
[11:26:34] <Darke> No mousie though, so I need to hunt for some drivers.
[11:26:52] <Colourless> what sort of mouse?
[11:27:04] <Colourless> generic msmouse drivers will probably do
[11:27:15] <Darke> The keys for one, aren't really intuititive, It'd be nice to be able to rebind them. *grin*
[11:27:35] * Darke nods and remembers there being a 'small' mouse driver around somewhere on one of the ultima pages, he'll grab that.
[11:28:14] <Colourless> if my dcc worked, i'd send you a driver
[11:28:58] <Kirben> cutemouse ?
[11:29:10] <Darke> Thanks, but I should be able to grab it easily.
[11:29:29] <Darke> Probably that. *grin* The one I remember was linked easily off one of the u7/u8win pages.
[11:30:32] <Darke> Hmm... it'll also help if I plug the usb mouse into the ps/2 port. *grin*
[11:31:17] <Kirben> yep, usb mouse driver for dos is almost impossible to find.
[11:31:51] <Colourless> almost would imply there is one :-)
[11:32:34] <Kirben> Only two I could find didn't work well.
[11:32:53] <Colourless> http://www.users.on.net/triforce/crusader_in_u8.png obviously not quite right yet :-)
[11:33:21] <Kirben> not found
[11:33:26] <Colourless> http://www.users.on.net/triforce/crusader_in_u8.jpg
[11:37:49] <Darke> Umm... no. *grin*
[11:42:51] <Darke> Cool! I can apparently play the game, but can't save. *grin* Methinks I should check attributes.
[11:44:19] <Darke> Hmm... any idea what the savegame directory is called? Or what it is for u8? *grin*
[11:44:30] <Colourless> savegame
[11:48:20] <Darke> Cool. It works now, I tried 'save' and it didn't. *grin* BTW, it takes ages to save, how long does it take to save with u8?
[11:48:32] <Colourless> ages :-)
[11:48:45] <Colourless> turn on smartdrv
[11:49:33] <Colourless> just do smartdrv 32000 (enable 32 mb diskcache)
[11:52:46] <Darke> Oh well, it's down to about 10-15 seconds on a 900Mhz Athlon. *grin*
[11:58:52] <Colourless> the palette is in gamepal.pal, but things still don't look right
[11:59:23] * Darke hmms... his copy of regret1.06 appears to be b0rk3n too. Time to try 1.01.
[12:09:14] * Darke blinkieboggles at the controls for No Regret. And he thought modern fpses had overkill!
[12:19:30] <Colourless> grr, obvious, the palette format has changed between u8 and crusader
[12:19:34] <Colourless> any only slightly too
[12:20:33] <Colourless> u8 format is : 4 byte header, 256 * (uint8 r, uint8 b, uint8 g)
[12:21:04] <Colourless> opps, that's meant to be (uint8 r, uint8 g, uint8 b)
[12:21:16] <Colourless> while cursader is just: 256 * (uint8 b, uint8 g, uint8 r)
[12:21:25] * Darke snerks.
[12:21:53] <Darke> Oh, just for reference, No Regret is both insanely difficult, and insanely fun. *grin*
[12:21:59] <Colourless> no, it's actually just: 256 * (uint8 r, uint8 b, uint8 g)
[12:22:25] * Darke is playing it on the 'easiest' difficulty level, the default is two levels up, and there's one more difficulty level higher then that. *grin*
[12:22:57] <Colourless> yay works :-)
[12:24:15] <Darke> Yay!
[12:24:45] <Darke> Not that we're actually going to support Crusader in Pentagram anyway, (*cough*) but it's still nice. *grin*
[12:26:18] <Colourless> s
[12:26:44] --> Cless has joined #Pentagram
[12:27:12] <Cless> http://www.users.on.net/triforce/crusader.png
[12:27:14] <-- Colourless has left IRC (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: Cless!Cless@ppp1403.adelaide.on.net.au)))
[12:27:16] --- Cless is now known as Colourless
[12:27:26] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Colourless
[12:29:53] <Colourless> so does crusader have a mouse?
[12:36:26] <Colourless> DARKE!
[12:39:12] * Colourless sighs
[12:44:50] <Darke> Sorry, a little distracted. *grin*
[12:44:59] <Darke> Yes, it does have a mouse, you use it to aim.
[12:45:25] * Darke ooohs. Nice picture!
[12:46:02] <Darke> The only mouse 'pointers' are in the main/loading/saving/help screens.
[12:46:24] <Darke> There's also run reticules, that kindof look like mouse pointers, but aren't really mouse controlled.
[12:46:28] <Darke> s/run/gun/
[12:48:30] <Colourless> shapes might still be in MOUSE.SHP
[12:49:26] <Darke> My thoughts exactly. I've only got one weapon at the start, but there might be a different reticle for each weapon. How many shapes are supposed to be in it?
[12:50:01] <Colourless> 40 frames
[12:50:07] <Darke> Also there's a flashing 'cross' type thing that covers the top torso of your current target. It might be an animation, or it might be a mouse shape.
[12:51:23] <Colourless> i'll have to look at the shape a bit more closely
[12:51:45] <Colourless> i.e. view it in shpview
[12:51:49] <Colourless> shpdisp even
[12:58:29] <Darke> 12 different weapons (potentially 12 cross hairs), 1 cursor on the main/save/load windows (all the same).
[12:58:48] <Colourless> the cross hairs seem to be in mouse.shp
[12:59:09] <Colourless> using shpdsp i can manage to view a sort of broken shape
[12:59:10] <Darke> There seems to be different flashing 'shoot it' crosshairs. The two I saw of different size had about 5-6 frames of animation.
[12:59:19] <Darke> Cool. *grin*
[13:07:34] <Darke> All things considered, regret is surprisingly flaky on my machine.
[13:08:12] <Darke> OTOP, it is running on a 900Mhz, when expecting 66mhz, and has 128MB at it's disposal, rather then the expect 8 or 16, so I really shouldn't complain. *grin*
[13:08:23] <Darke> s/expect/expected/
[13:08:38] <Colourless> :-)
[13:10:16] * Darke is still very much amazed at it though, even though he kind-of knows how everything works, can see the usecode for this or that running, it's still very nifty. *grin*
[13:10:59] <Colourless> does it seem like it's the u8 engine?
[13:12:08] <Darke> Very much. *grin*
[13:12:38] <Colourless> :-)
[13:13:37] <Colourless> btw, i've taken the pleasure of making ODataSource.h with ODataSource and OFileDataSource
[13:13:55] <Darke> I think there are some differences, were npcs/items 'active' offscreen in u8?
[13:14:04] <Darke> s/pleasure/perverse pleasure/ *grin*
[13:14:13] <Colourless> yeah they were active offscreen in u8
[13:19:19] * Darke blinkblinks. After having worked quite nicely half a dozen times, Regret is suddenly gpfing ever time I run it. *blink*
[13:21:00] <Darke> Then windows dies when I try to go into it to retrieve a 'fresh' copy of it.
[13:21:18] * Darke thinks it's a subtle hint to go code, or sleep or something, so turns off the computer. *grin*
[13:21:27] <Colourless> :-)
[13:41:21] <Colourless> well, my shapeconverter managed to convert the crusader shapeflex without crashing... so now lets see if the shapes themselves are ok :-)
[13:45:09] <Colourless> if you thought the avatar in u8 had a lot of frames... well crusaders main character has more... A LOT MORE :-)
[13:47:28] * Darke snickers. He would have to. *Grin*
[13:47:53] <Darke> Admittedly, it looks like he jumps identically to the avatar. *grin*
[13:48:13] <Colourless> he seems to do some things identially to the avatar
[13:50:44] <Colourless> it has some really cool explosion animations
[13:50:52] * Darke nodnodnods!
[13:51:16] <Darke> And pretty much everything 'breaks', quite a bit of it having multiple 'steps' to breaking too. *grin*
[13:52:28] <Colourless> it's hard to know if the shapes are converting properly. it looks like they are
[13:54:08] <Colourless> there are some cursors in shapes.flx
[13:54:29] <Colourless> animated ones
[13:55:07] <Darke> What do they look like? They could be the 'shoot it' crosshairs I mentioned above. *grin*
[13:55:15] <Colourless> 4 triangles
[13:55:43] <Darke> Red triangles, positioned at the top/bottom/left/right, all pointing inwards?
[13:56:29] <Colourless> there are red ones
[13:56:42] <Colourless> grey gradient
[13:56:56] <Colourless> yellow/red/orange ones
[13:57:07] <Colourless> black->red gradient
[14:01:08] <Darke> Cool.
[14:14:32] <Colourless> commmitted my stuff
[14:14:52] <Colourless> if you want to use the shape converter you will be wanting create some makefiles :-_
[14:15:02] <Colourless> s/:-_/:-)/
[14:16:27] <Darke> s/create/to create/ too. *grin*
[14:16:43] <Colourless> well, that one was less obvious :-)
[14:17:15] <Darke> No, both were equally obvious, I've gotten used to your typing... err... 'skills' for lack of a better word. *grin*
[14:17:39] <Colourless> why you....!
[14:18:00] * Darke grins and looks innocent.
[14:20:44] * Darke wonders why someone put a bug report into gcc-bugs, saying that gcc doesn't support something that the docs explicitly detail gcc doesn't support. You'd really think people would, y'know, read the docs before submitting a bug?
[14:21:13] <Colourless> you've been working on exult long enough to know that's not true
[14:24:09] <Colourless> my pentagram workspace in msvc is becomming a really really big mess
[14:24:20] <Colourless> s/becomming/becoming/
[14:24:23] <Darke> Sure, but this is an 'advanced' compiler feature they're saying isn't there. (The keyword 'export' for reference, is it even working in VC++ yet?) You'd think someone who's looking for it, and finds it doesn't work, would actually check the docs to find out about it, and find that *gasp* it doesn't work! *grin*
[14:24:42] * Darke snickers.
[14:25:10] <Colourless> i've just got too many projects
[14:27:53] <Colourless> i've got the following projects: animdisp, Conf, convert, dcmpsound, disasm, disasm new, disasm2, disassem, Display, docs, files, filesys, globdisp, Midi, misc, ShapeConv, shpdisp, smapper, tmapsrc, u8extract, u8savextract, u8segerizer, ucm_reg, ViewerLib and x86er
[14:28:14] * Darke snickers. Quite a few it would appear.
[14:28:35] <Colourless> note that disassem has nothing to do with disasm :-)
[14:29:12] * Colourless notes the source files for disassem no longer exist
[14:29:20] * Colourless presses delete on the project
[14:29:33] * Darke grins.
[14:31:46] <Colourless> well, that's one down. at least now i don't have to scroll to see all of the projects
[14:33:54] <Colourless> enough programming for tonight
[14:36:38] * Darke decides that 'now' would be the appropriate time for the thing known as 'sleep'. *grin* Night!
[14:36:58] <Colourless> cya
[14:37:00] --- Darke is now known as Darke|zzZ
[14:45:28] <Darke|zzZ> BTW, we need to make a descision somewhere about whether we're using exceptions or not. Currently some bits of code (such as FileSystem::ReadFile()) assume that a true/false value will be returned if file opening fails, whilst an exception is actually being thrown. *grin*
[14:45:45] <Colourless> yes i've noticed :-)
[14:46:04] <Darke|zzZ> It needs to be fixed, and I've been meaning to, except I have no idea _how_ to fix it, until we decide. *grin*
[14:46:10] <Darke|zzZ> Anyway, I'm sleeping. *grin*
[14:46:13] <Colourless> i can fix it
[14:46:26] * Colourless adds it to his tasks for tomorrow
[14:46:34] * Darke|zzZ snickers.
[15:31:04] <-- Darke|zzZ has left IRC (saberhagen.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[15:31:04] <-- Kirben has left IRC (saberhagen.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[15:31:14] --> Darke|zzZ has joined #pentagram
[16:06:41] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("casts invisibility")
[16:56:51] --> wjp has joined #pentagram
[16:56:51] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[17:16:11] <-- wjp has left IRC (saberhagen.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[17:16:11] <-- Darke|zzZ has left IRC (saberhagen.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[17:16:11] --> wjp has joined #pentagram
[17:16:11] --> Darke|zzZ has joined #pentagram
[18:04:04] --> exultbot has joined #pentagram
[18:04:04] --- Topic for #pentagram is: Pentagram... more than just a game engine, it's an Action RPG operating system
[18:04:04] --- Topic for #pentagram set by Colourless at Mon Oct 7 14:31:52 2002
[20:44:51] --> Dominus has joined #pentagram
[20:48:43] <Dominus> nice homepage for the project
[20:48:48] <Dominus> :-)
[20:50:48] <wjp> *cough* yes :-)
[21:05:42] <Dominus> a logo? Yes definitely needed
[21:16:45] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("enough for now")
[21:19:08] --> Dominus has joined #pentagram
[23:50:43] --> _Kirben has joined #pentagram
[23:53:12] --- _Kirben is now known as Kirben