#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 2 Aug 2006 (GMT)

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[09:24:44] <jargon> Lord_Nightmare?
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[10:02:06] <jargon> lo Colourless
[10:04:03] <jargon> Colourless?
[10:04:57] <servus> Leave a message, and the respond may end up in the
[10:04:58] <servus> ?log
[10:04:58] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/pentagramlog.php
[10:08:34] <Colourless> hello
[10:12:30] <jargon> hi
[10:12:35] <jargon> tricky bot you have
[10:12:38] <jargon> Colourless
[10:13:44] <jargon> 8|_)-|=K4n!tR33|)7337?
[10:14:18] * jargon baps Colourless
[10:15:56] * jargon assumes the purpose of this channel is to have as little human vs human conversation as possible
[10:16:47] <jargon> oh god i just drank liquid co2
[10:22:02] <Darke2> Nah. It's a front organisation for a group of super villians who's goal is world domination. Just, like, don't tell anyone else, ok?
[10:23:59] <Colourless> pfft darke, letting out our secret!
[10:24:29] <jargon> ?
[10:24:52] <jargon> strange i thought my front was better
[10:25:31] <jargon> my front company writes military grade software and distributes it as sdks for garage games software
[10:25:40] <jargon> or used to anyway
[10:25:47] <Colourless> pfft.
[10:26:08] <jargon> right now i am working on a captcha defeat
[10:26:16] <Colourless> ours is open source game engines
[10:26:58] <jargon> what does this have to do with ultima8?
[10:27:34] <jargon> i try to put backdoors in all my software
[10:27:40] <jargon> waht backdoors are in yours?
[10:27:52] <Colourless> well no one played that damn game or people who did hated it so it's the perfect front
[10:28:33] <Colourless> no one will notice that nothing is happening. Just put up a few carefully constructed screenshots and commit some code using the patented Random Code Generator and no one is the wiser
[10:29:12] <jargon> thats what i figured
[10:29:55] <jargon> odd thing i notice is your ini formatting is very similar to mine except with different escape characters
[10:30:37] <jargon> the engine i wrote was called teliros
[10:30:49] <jargon> basically was a scriptfuck
[10:32:23] <jargon> same thing different game
[10:32:49] <Colourless> no great plan with the ini for pentagram
[10:33:03] <jargon> nonfunctional as well. the engine just read the script and interpretted it as it wished
[10:33:16] <Colourless> which is quite odd really... the rest of the engine was pretty much planned out from the beginning
[10:36:15] <Darke2> Benefit of hindsight, after the evolution of the exult engine, "first work out *how* it originally works properly, *then* do a design and implement properly". The original .ini code was just nicked from exult without a thought, I do recall we did put a bit of thought into it when we replaced it with something a bit more generic-user-friendly. *grin*
[10:37:34] <Colourless> bit more thought = hmmm lets see what scummvm does
[10:38:05] <Colourless> nicked more bits out of scummvm then is probably obvious :-)
[10:38:48] <jargon> i am eating a vat of cold macaroni
[10:40:40] <Colourless> thats nice to know. It was the one thing missing from my life. I can now die in peace.
[10:43:27] <jargon> what is the software called?
[10:43:46] <jargon> the engine
[10:44:03] <Colourless> Pentagram!
[10:44:08] <jargon> what does it do btw?
[10:44:24] <Colourless> plays ultima 8
[10:44:37] <jargon> i dont understand?
[10:45:00] <Colourless> http://pentagram.sourceforge.net/
[10:45:34] <jargon> so it is an emulator specifically for ultima8?
[10:46:00] <jargon> or is it like zelda classic?
[10:46:02] <Colourless> more of an engine reimplementation. It's not really an emulator
[10:46:20] <Colourless> uses the originals data files but a new 'exe'
[10:46:39] <jargon> where it is a from scratch engine of an orginal game which is using the original artwork soundfiles level files etc?
[10:47:12] <jargon> kinda like importing wolfenstein3d into duke3d?
[10:47:24] <Colourless> no
[10:47:40] <jargon> i fail to understand :(
[10:48:02] <jargon> what system was u8 for?
[10:48:16] <Colourless> dos :-)
[10:48:23] <jargon> ok
[10:48:26] <jargon> dos4?
[10:48:51] <jargon> how did you come up with the u8 engine?"
[10:49:04] <jargon> i mean where did it come from to become p
[10:49:12] <Colourless> na. u8 used pharlap
[10:49:23] <jargon> what is pharlap?
[10:49:35] <Colourless> a dos extender, similar to dos4
[10:49:45] <Colourless> ultima 8 engine obviously is the engine used for the game ultima 8
[10:49:56] <jargon> did you decompile it?
[10:50:00] <Colourless> no
[10:50:23] <jargon> did you replace all the gfx and sound files of the original game?
[10:50:28] <Colourless> Pentagram is an engine that we've designed using reverse engineering the various ultima 8 file formats, to run the game, as the original ultima 8 engine did
[10:50:42] <Colourless> we use all the data exactly as the original engine uses the data
[10:50:45] <jargon> isnt that what i meant earlier?
[10:50:59] <jargon> its like zelda classic
[10:51:19] <Colourless> i don't k now anything about zelda classic
[10:51:24] <jargon> zeldaclassic.com
[10:51:57] <jargon> my old buddy i am no longer in talking terms with developed it along with a guy who goes by phantom menace
[10:52:21] <jargon> actualy pm developed it in entirely up to the point it was a perfect replica
[10:52:38] <jargon> now they have custom quest developer for it called zquest
[10:52:46] <jargon> zc is a zelda1 engine
[10:53:02] <jargon> except it uses more color, mp3's etc
[10:53:41] <jargon> dont join agn they are assholes
[10:53:51] <jargon> seriously
[10:54:08] <jargon> plus they hate opensource
[10:54:11] <Colourless> pentagram isn't all that different from the original engine. It has very few extra features.
[10:54:22] <jargon> what is p coded in?
[10:54:51] <Colourless> C++ with a few sprinkings of inline assembler in some places
[10:54:56] <jargon> :(
[10:55:05] <jargon> may i assist with the project?
[10:55:31] <jargon> i suck at c. but i am good at developing algorithms
[10:56:52] <jargon> only thing i am good with in c is that and hand coded optimization
[10:58:07] <jargon> oh i am good at ai too
[10:58:09] <Colourless> to work with the pentagram source you'll probably want strong C++ skills. We're very heavily object based and use lots of STL. If there are any thing you'd like to do then we'd ask you to submit patches in the tracker: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=53819&atid=471708
[10:58:44] <jargon> what compiler?
[10:59:20] <jargon> will i get credit for patches?
[10:59:53] <Colourless> typically GCC3.x is used. I personally use MSVC though
[11:00:08] <jargon> ok :)
[11:00:16] <Colourless> yep you should get credit for things you do.
[11:00:54] <jargon> how do i program a replica of u8 i have no dos machine nor u8
[11:01:25] <jargon> :(
[11:02:39] <Colourless> you can't
[11:02:48] <jargon> only dos machine i have is broke:(
[11:02:54] <Colourless> perhaps this probject isn't for you then
[11:02:59] <jargon> where can i get a dos machine
[11:03:11] <jargon> if i could find the parts i could build one
[11:04:38] <jargon> i have a question?
[11:04:47] <jargon> am i allowed to make a mod of pentagram?
[11:06:03] <Colourless> yes provided you done break the GPL. But without Ultima 8 there's not really much point
[11:07:16] <jargon> i might have ultima8 on a pc gamer disc
[11:08:42] <jargon> there was a game called Transcender, renamed Transcension due to legal issues
[11:08:52] <jargon> could it have used an u8 engine?
[11:09:14] <Colourless> no
[11:09:24] <jargon> ultima8 is viewed from above right?
[11:09:54] <jargon> why no?
[11:10:13] <Colourless> ultima 8 has a 60 degree from top isometric viewpoint
[11:10:31] <Colourless> the u8 engine was only used by ultima 8, crusader no remorse and crusader no regret.
[11:11:01] <jargon> ?
[11:11:49] <jargon> it was done so characters always face either left right north east or south west right?
[11:13:13] <jargon> hello?
[11:16:06] <Darke2> Not really. They mostly face 'top right', 'top left', 'bottom left', 'bottom right'.
[11:16:48] <Darke2> At least that's the 4 cardinal points in the game anyway.
[11:21:03] <jargon> yeah my old friend wrote a u8 clone in qbx back in 1999
[11:22:06] <jargon> he was at a retrocomputing show with it
[11:22:12] <jargon> in vegas i think
[11:22:26] <jargon> i lost contact with him
[11:26:47] <jargon> this is his site
[11:26:50] <jargon> http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~rosh/RetroActiveGames/index.html
[11:28:27] <jargon> atleast i am pretty sure its the same guy
[11:28:54] <jargon> ask him about transcension in email regarding ultima 8 cloning
[11:29:17] <jargon> he made the goddamn clone all by himself using freaking qbasic
[11:29:21] <jargon> :)
[11:29:36] <jargon> he is smart
[11:30:43] * Darke2 still thinks writing those is QBasic is So Wrong! *grin* But they look neat enough.
[11:33:56] <jargon> he is your inside man
[11:34:04] <jargon> contact him
[11:34:54] <jargon> tell him you heard about Transcension from a beta tester for it that goes by 'jargon' and include a link to pentagram on sourceforge
[11:35:15] <jargon> :P
[11:35:17] <jargon> :)
[11:36:37] <Darke2> Heh.
[11:39:27] <jargon> he wrote a fully functional modded engine and u8 mod entirely in qbasic!
[11:39:31] <jargon> damn
[11:39:37] <jargon> what does it take to convince you
[11:41:28] <jargon> he prolly doesnt use qbasic anymore except to have fun :P
[11:46:30] * Darke2 is not sure what he's supposed to be convinced of, but he's going to look into things and might even contact this guy to say hi. Just busy at the moment, multitasking with other things. *grin*
[11:48:00] <jargon> :)
[11:48:21] <jargon> well his site still says copyright 2005 so dont expect a speedy reply
[11:48:30] <jargon> he is prolly busy with college
[11:48:49] <jargon> last time i talked to him was 2000
[11:48:56] <jargon> i think anyway
[11:49:52] <jargon> the only language i use atm is blitz3d
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[11:51:01] <jargon> blitz3d with minimal mirc style coding and php style coding i added to my compiler
[11:51:20] * Darke2 nods.
[11:51:30] <jargon> i like blitz3d for the handle system.
[11:51:36] <jargon> not for the 3d
[11:51:44] <jargon> i rarely use the 3d stuff
[11:52:33] <jargon> basically blitz3d assigns 32bit integer values to various data constructs
[11:52:47] <jargon> instead of a variable name to identify the item
[11:52:59] <jargon> a variable holds the handle pointing at it
[11:53:27] <jargon> in this way you can have a databank containing handles of other databanks
[11:53:34] <jargon> very useful
[11:53:56] <jargon> as well as have a bank or array contain the handles of images and buffers etc
[11:54:00] <jargon> even fonts
[11:54:23] <jargon> however arrays themselves are not identified with handles neither are structs
[11:54:27] <jargon> :/
[11:56:23] <Darke2> That must be a pain to, err, handle at times?
[11:56:27] <jargon> my god my hair looks like it exploded
[11:57:25] * Darke2 oopsies and turns of the Van de Graaff Generator.
[11:57:29] <Darke2> s/of/off/
[11:58:34] <jargon> brb
[11:58:37] <jargon> finding someone
[11:59:59] <jargon> oh heheh
[12:00:05] * jargon points at Lord_Nightmare
[12:00:08] <jargon> there he is
[12:00:14] <jargon> hi Lord_Nightmare
[12:02:59] <jargon> omg macaroni
[12:04:28] * jargon feeds from his macaroni trough
[12:06:16] <jargon> nothingquite beats macaroni in bed
[12:09:59] <jargon> oh Darke2
[12:10:04] <jargon> i have a dos machine
[12:10:19] <jargon> but u8 wont work on it for some reason :<
[12:10:29] * Darke2 ponders a bed with integrated macaroni trough. O.o
[12:10:55] <Darke2> Sounds like autoexec.bat/config.sys file tweaking is in order?
[12:11:19] <jargon> there is no such thing as autoexec.bat on it
[12:12:00] <jargon> the computer is from 1973
[12:12:25] <jargon> :P
[12:12:43] <jargon> i have two dos boxes
[12:12:57] <jargon> one is a 1973 commodore PET 4016
[12:13:07] <jargon> the other an 8088 with cga graphics
[12:13:44] * Darke2 ahhs. And was wondering if it was a DOS/360 machine... but 1973 sounds a bit too late for that.
[12:14:40] <jargon> i had other puters. like 12 of them. but i had to kill them.
[12:15:03] <jargon> they threatened our very existence. i had to fight for our right to exist.
[12:15:23] <jargon> they been damn dur smart thar
[12:15:35] <jargon> bloody ai i had to give them
[12:15:53] <Darke2> CBM DOS I know of... but what dos type ran on an 8088? I thought the original QDos MS purchased was only 8086 based. *thinkie*
[12:16:09] <Darke2> Ahh. The war against machines. I know of it.
[12:16:25] <jargon> the 8088 is downright stupid
[12:16:47] <jargon> however the space invaders inside the 4016 are beginning to make me suspicious
[12:17:16] <Lord_Nightmare> pet 4016 is from 1979 not 1973
[12:17:22] <jargon> yes
[12:17:44] <Lord_Nightmare> government conspiracy?
[12:18:03] <Darke2> I wouldn't worry about them. They've already invaded the space inside the 4016, I don't see them wanting to yield it to try and take over more space that they obviously cannot hold.
[12:19:07] <jargon> all 16k? dayum!
[12:20:10] <Darke2> Quite possibly.
[12:22:05] <jargon> hoyl crap you are Lord_Nightmare
[12:22:10] <jargon> must read names
[12:24:23] <jargon> a government conspiracy is that vcr's didnt exist until AFTER the moon landing every EVERY GEEK has a recording of it
[12:24:39] <jargon> yet in there somewhere
[12:24:49] <jargon> :)
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[12:28:42] <Lord_Nightmare> jargon: ... ever heard of ampex video recording system?
[12:28:48] <Lord_Nightmare> that was the first 'vcr'
[12:29:07] <Lord_Nightmare> dates back to the early-mid 60s, BEFORE the moon landing!
[12:29:54] <Lord_Nightmare> and the tapes (which are MASSIVE things) from those of the moon landing were converted into VHS tapes and other forms of modern storage
[12:30:42] <jargon> yes but the first commercially available cassette player didnt exist until september 1971!
[12:31:06] <Lord_Nightmare> so? the conversion was done after that
[12:31:21] <Lord_Nightmare> the old tapes don't just disappear
[12:31:34] <jargon> the moon landing was in 1969!
[12:32:09] <Lord_Nightmare> hello! the apex system wasn't a CASSETTE system!
[12:32:12] <Lord_Nightmare> er ampex
[12:32:23] <jargon> why is there no 'moon landing' holiday/
[12:32:24] <jargon> ?
[12:32:27] <Lord_Nightmare> it was a unit the size of a washer/dryer?
[12:32:29] <Lord_Nightmare> er
[12:32:30] <Lord_Nightmare> it was a unit the size of a washer/dryer
[12:32:41] <Lord_Nightmare> it was NOT meant for the consumer
[12:32:56] <Lord_Nightmare> it was used by tv networks to store shows
[12:33:21] <jargon> again, why is there no 'moon landing' holiday?
[12:33:37] <Lord_Nightmare> moon landing holiday? because the moon landing wasn't significant enough to the average person to make a holiday around it
[12:33:50] <jargon> exactly
[12:34:11] <jargon> had they made a moon landing holiday we would be in alpha centari by now and all own flying cars
[12:34:20] <Lord_Nightmare> and what does this have to do with the vcr?
[12:34:52] <jargon> vcr's are crap
[12:36:10] <jargon> Lord_Nightmare i heard a rumor that there is a superior way to implement s-dd1 decryption other than the one by andreas
[12:37:18] <Lord_Nightmare> yes, anomie rewrote andreas' code to be more optimized
[12:37:24] <Lord_Nightmare> we already know that
[12:37:26] <jargon> whether i was awake or alseep or daydreaming i do not know
[12:37:28] <jargon> oh ok
[12:37:33] <jargon> im not crazy then
[12:38:00] <Lord_Nightmare> ...
[12:38:10] <Lord_Nightmare> can we talk about snes stuff in #zsnes, not here?
[12:38:17] <jargon> i cant
[12:38:48] <Lord_Nightmare> ...ok, how about #nsrt then?
[12:38:57] <jargon> sure
[12:39:00] <jargon> cya there
[12:39:04] <jargon> i guess?
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[20:42:03] <jargon> Darke2 that guy i told you guys about made a clone of an earlier version of ultima
[20:42:15] <jargon> using qbasic
[20:42:25] <jargon> sorry for the confusion
[20:47:41] <jargon> the ultima he cloned was 320x200 and was ega
[20:55:18] <jargon> which ultima am i thinking of?
[20:56:56] <jargon> maybe it wasnt an ultima clone. but it sure as hell was very similar
[20:57:29] <SB-X> you can look up on the web when each ultima game was released and see screenshots of it
[20:57:58] <jargon> i looked i couldnt find a page of side by side in game screen shots of all ultimas
[20:58:35] <jargon> i really really need to build a 486
[20:58:38] <jargon> :(
[20:59:28] <jargon> my grandpa had a 8086 with a zenith monitor. but he donated it to a nonprofit org instead of giving it to me :(
[21:04:35] <jargon> btw i found ultima -1
[21:04:42] <jargon> its called castle
[21:04:51] <jargon> or CASTLE rather
[21:04:58] <jargon> its for CBM
[21:05:01] <jargon> ;)
[21:05:18] <jargon> i have it on my old fugger
[21:05:24] <jargon> i am joking its not ultima
[21:05:28] <jargon> its like zork
[21:05:33] <jargon> its broke tho :(
[21:05:58] <jargon> i need to get a few copies of CURSOR magazine to repair the code forit
[21:06:45] <jargon> take a look at this:
[21:06:57] <jargon> http://omnisis.org/prj/gigadeva-db.png
[21:08:51] <jargon> :(
[21:08:57] <jargon> thats for a zork style game
[21:09:05] <jargon> i forgot how it works
[21:09:12] <jargon> i designed that in 2000
[21:09:38] <jargon> while in college
[21:10:07] <jargon> i never had much fun in college :(
[21:15:00] <servus> Dig you guys write that UML diagram at a kegger party?
[21:37:12] <jargon> ?
[21:38:25] <jargon> servus: what?
[21:39:48] <servus> Never mind.
[21:40:37] <jargon> it was just me bymyself
[21:40:46] <jargon> i had no friends in college
[21:46:10] <jargon> :[
[21:48:07] <servus> This is a very uncomfortable situation! I believe that someone should break the ice with a witty non sequitur.
[21:48:55] <SB-X> Ask Shamino about that.
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