#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 2 Dec 2003 (GMT)

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[00:07:24] <wjp> hi
[00:07:34] <wjp> tough, empty, whatever you want to call it :-)
[00:11:54] <wjp> speaking of empty, it's past my bedtime :-)
[00:11:55] <wjp> 'night
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[06:31:33] --- Topic for #pentagram is: http://pentagram.sf.net/ - We are missing an anvil. If you find one please let us know
[06:31:33] --- Topic for #pentagram set by Colourless at Fri Oct 17 14:59:04 2003
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[10:22:49] <Kirben> Funny to watch NPCs slide around game.
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[10:50:15] <Colourless> hi
[11:48:29] <MatrixCubed> hey
[11:49:12] <Colourless> whoa... a maths nightmare is attempting to speak
[11:49:22] <MatrixCubed> naw not math
[11:49:34] <MatrixCubed> ever play old school SSI games?
[11:49:39] <MatrixCubed> Buck Rogers - matrix cubed
[11:50:17] <Colourless> obviously not
[11:50:23] <MatrixCubed> heh :)
[11:50:28] <MatrixCubed> so whats up?
[11:51:15] <Colourless> i'm talking to someone with a name that makes little logical sense
[11:52:13] <MatrixCubed> i've been following the project's progress for some time... i wanted to see if there was any way i could contribute
[11:53:11] <Colourless> there are many things yet still to be done
[11:54:34] <MatrixCubed> anything a c/c++/opengl/sdl programmer could help with? also have access to a mac os 9, linux, and winxp computers for coding/testing
[11:55:57] <Colourless> anything. It's not so much as what I can tell you to do, as it is you look at the code and you find something you can do yourself.
[11:56:31] <Colourless> if you don
[11:56:59] <Colourless> 't know how pentagram works internally, then it would be best to examine how we have done things before really attempting to write code for us
[11:57:41] <MatrixCubed> gotcha.
[11:59:13] <Colourless> the core of Pentagram, surprise surprise is the Kernel :-)
[11:59:23] <Colourless> the Kernel controls all the various Processes
[11:59:40] <Colourless> the Processes run the game world
[11:59:54] * MatrixCubed nods
[12:01:48] <MatrixCubed> it appears a lot more complex than what takes place inside the game :)
[12:02:09] <Colourless> you... would be surprised
[12:02:17] <Colourless> Usecode is terribly complex
[12:03:08] <Colourless> it's multithreaded, and the Kernel and Process system is primarily developed to correctly schedule the usecode
[12:04:13] <Colourless> but Processes are also used for other things too. It's useful to have something automatically scheduled to run at a given interval
[12:05:28] <MatrixCubed> usecode is a term for a game script?
[12:05:40] <Colourless> a feature that Processes have is you can stall a Process until another Process has finished
[12:05:54] <Colourless> yes, usecode can be thought of as the game scripts
[12:06:12] <MatrixCubed> event code for user and game events essentially
[12:06:23] <MatrixCubed> game logic i mean
[12:07:31] <Colourless> yes
[12:07:42] <Colourless> to a certain point thouhg
[12:08:32] <Colourless> things like AI, Combat, Movement are need to implemented in engine
[12:08:47] <Colourless> add user interface to that list too
[12:10:32] <Colourless> usecode is triggered when various events occur. They can be when an item is clicked, double clicked, stepped on, attacked, or various others that i wont list
[12:10:58] * Darke has diabotical dreams of dropping AI, combat stuff and UI into usecode... but that requires him to finally getting around to writing this damn compiler, which doesn't seem to be going to happen anytime soon. *grin*
[12:11:24] <MatrixCubed> i know what you mean... i have mostly read stuff on ultima vii ... similar in functionality
[12:11:55] <Colourless> yes, u8's usecode is similar to u7 but it is more powerful, and concequently more complex too
[12:11:59] <MatrixCubed> would it be possible to replace the usecode with scripts in a language that is more easily accessible, like Lua for example?
[12:12:09] <Colourless> however, u8's usecode tends to make more sense than u7 overall
[12:12:20] <Colourless> Darke: if you have dillusions of putting path finding into usecode, i will have to kill you
[12:12:21] <Darke> Not unless you wanted to rewrite all the usecode from scratch.
[12:12:43] * Darke hides behind his DragonProof(tm) shield.
[12:13:09] <Darke> And even then, you'd have a nightmare trying to sort out the multithreaded timing issues.
[12:13:25] <Colourless> if you want to put rendering into usecode, death would be too good for you. I think i would have to tourture you till i was bored
[12:14:19] <Darke> Lots of the scripting is *very* sensitive as to timing being correct, just ask wjp in his effort to get the exeuction scene to... err... execute right. *grin*
[12:14:37] <Darke> Colourless: No, no. Keep the rendering in C++. *grin*
[12:16:41] <MatrixCubed> what's with the topic... who is missing an anvil?
[12:17:03] * Darke was just wanting AI stuffed into usecode, simply because it'd make coding all the behaviours of the soldiers in TGWDS much easier. Then again, we're still not sure if they aren't in usecode already.
[12:18:02] <Darke> Umm... not me. I think I was actually the bun who lost it.
[12:18:05] * Colourless is pretty sure that the AI for TGWDS isn't in usecode. the usecode events are mostly the same
[12:18:32] <Colourless> you dropped it on my head remember, and it bounced away
[12:18:52] * Darke is pretty sure too... but he's an optimist! Well... kinda. Sometimes anyway.
[12:19:13] <Darke> Yeah. It was a weirdly bouncy anvil too.
[12:19:30] <Colourless> no one ever said it was actually made of iron
[12:20:01] <Kirben> Buck Rogers - Matrix Cubed, that was a good old rpg. Shame SSI didn't make more in that series.
[12:20:43] <Darke> Wasn't there two in that series made? I've got the first two books in that trilogy that the games were based off.
[12:21:16] <Kirben> Yes, Countdown to Doomsday was the first I think. I read the books too, long ago though.
[12:21:18] <Darke> Ah, yeah, Countdown to Doomsday and Matrix Cubed?
[12:21:22] <MatrixCubed> yep
[12:21:41] * Darke has a couple of books of that TSR rpg too. Very cool.
[12:22:05] <Kirben> Was nice how many copies of the first game included the first book.
[12:22:51] <Darke> I never saw the originals in my corner of .au. I managed to get the first in one of those combo packs of SSI gold-boxed games being sold.
[12:23:04] <Darke> Hrm... I think. Been a while.
[12:23:32] <MatrixCubed> they were huge.. took forever to complete. but i guess turn based combat was the killer
[12:23:51] <Kirben> I saw the originals of both, but didn't have PC at time of second game so played it much later.
[12:23:57] <Darke> Pity it's almost impossible to get your paws on the original RPG nowdays, I've only got a couple of the modules, not the rules.
[12:24:31] <Darke> I always hex edited the games to give my characters around 200 life, made the combats less annoying, and the game more fun. *grin*
[12:25:05] <Kirben> I bought Matrix Cubed from ebay not that long ago, seller seems to have multiple copies so might show up again.
[12:25:46] <Kirben> Yep, http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3062700582&category=11050
[12:26:29] <MatrixCubed> i'm curious to know what your backgrounds are, scholastically speaking
[12:29:08] <Darke> How do you mean? Just general education level, such as a degree or something, or stuff we study because we're interested in it? *grin*
[12:30:14] <MatrixCubed> both... e.g. i have a programming diploma, college level (2 yrs), plus self taught most of my 'real' programming skills (i.e. anything not java or cobol related)
[12:30:34] <Colourless> What i know vs What i've been taught are 2 completely different things
[12:30:37] <MatrixCubed> c, c++, stl, opengl, directx, sdl, openal, etc
[12:30:48] <MatrixCubed> the fun stuff :)
[12:31:16] <Colourless> the don't teach you reverse engineering of custom bytecodes are no school that I know of
[12:31:23] <Colourless> s/are/at/
[12:31:36] * Darke has err... coded in pretty much everything at one time or another. Mostly due to interest, though I was forced to code in Modula-2 and Hascall.
[12:31:44] <MatrixCubed> though really i consider the diploma not much more than .... well, not much
[12:32:26] <Colourless> that said, wjp did do most of the actual reverse engineering of the usecode format... but i helped... a bit :-
[12:32:27] <Colourless> )
[12:32:50] <Colourless> but have you coded in Intercal darke?
[12:32:58] <Darke> I avoid most platform specific libraries/languages (directx. the 'basic' languages, etc) nowdays, though I used to program in VB, you can blame MFCs for that mostly. *grin*
[12:33:12] <Darke> Colourless: Yes, I thought I told you that before. *grin*
[12:33:55] <Colourless> you are truely a master :-)
[12:34:10] * Darke was the other evil do-er decoding the usecode with wjp, and also trying to figure out the more hairy executing bits of it, and how it all gets put together as he's been slowly trying to write this decompiler. *grin*
[12:34:14] <Darke> s/master/lunatic/
[12:34:29] <MatrixCubed> i have a small project on the go ... i had been working on an rpg that seemed to be taking forever so i took a step back and decided to work on a space exploration game
[12:34:41] <MatrixCubed> its a drag when you fly solo :)
[12:35:25] <Darke> I do, however, at some point in time want to add a Brainf*ck interpreter to pentagram. *grin*
[12:35:37] <Colourless> well. gee Darke, I wonder if there is just a little connection between the 3 Main Programmers of Pentagram and the intial reverse engineering of the usecode and the depelopment of the interpreter :-)
[12:36:12] <Colourless> so FU*KOFF isn't good enough for you?
[12:37:06] <Darke> MC: Yeah, I found that too. That's why I got distracted by OS team programming around the time sf.net started up, and then proceeded to work on and off of various things, just like I worked on and off my solo projects. *grin*
[12:37:37] <Darke> Colourless: That's just a file format. We need an un-writable turing complete language integrated too, just for completness. *grin*
[12:38:13] <Colourless> sounds like usecode to me. Har Har Har!
[12:38:22] <MatrixCubed> heh
[12:38:55] <MatrixCubed> i am just coming off my overnight shift so i am off to bed gents... talk to you soon and goodnight
[12:38:58] <Darke> Colourless: Bah! You just need to study usecode more. It's actually not too bad to code on the byte level. *grin*
[12:39:04] <Darke> Night!
[12:39:24] <Colourless> for the ignorant: FU*KOFF stands for Flex UseCode Kernel Object File Format
[12:39:26] <Colourless> cya
[13:09:35] <Darke> Hrm... anyway, I need to do that 'sleep' thing too. Along with harassing Cinni the next time I see here, for supporting you in that... name. *grin* Night!
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[13:10:39] <Colourless> :-)
[13:11:00] <Colourless> where is your Zzz Bunny?
[13:11:38] <Darke> It ran off and eloped with zzZ, so I'm all alone now. *eardroopie*
[13:12:00] <Colourless> ha, sucks to be you then I guess
[13:12:14] <Darke> Well... except for you, exultbot, Kirben and that odd Doom cloud that's hanging over there. *point*
[13:13:49] <Darke> Anyway, I'm asleep now. Really.
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[13:18:14] * Darke ouches! and rubs his tail. That hurt! Can't you see this rabbit's trying to sleep here?!?
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[13:20:14] <Colourless> i hate rabbits
[13:21:06] <Colourless> especially this one little black rabbit in particular
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[23:41:16] <Cashman> Hey Darke, Im]
[23:41:46] <Cashman> I'm glad I could be back, I've been reading the logs and its been a long time, no affence but colourless whats with his behaviour
[23:42:07] <Cashman> I through a little shitty once but look what hes done and hes admin bauh
[23:42:29] <Cashman> so why was I banned, am I still banned sometimes??? I hope not and hope to be back in this channel
[23:43:01] <Cashman> anyone reading this including colourless - how about casting a vote,
[23:43:20] <Cashman> note to colourless - I sware to keep out of ur way
[23:43:52] <Cashman> matrix cubed ? u there - I see there are some new guys :-)
[23:44:04] <Cashman> any of u fans of TGWDS namely the crusader series
[23:47:30] <Cashman> I'm made enough to wipe the dust off the TGWDS once a year - chirstmas tradition 4 me and play them
[23:47:35] <Cashman> hehe sitll love ultima 8
[23:47:46] <Cashman> madd
[23:48:19] <Cashman> hey WJP hows ur year been - got through ur exams ok??? got plans yet 4 next year.
[23:50:22] <Cashman> bye for now and merry xmas from the cashman
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