#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 2 Jun 2006 (GMT)

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[06:26:54] <SB-X> hi ShadwChsr
[06:27:01] <ShadwChsr> Hey
[06:27:49] <SB-X> Sorry I went AFK last time you were here. To answer your question, I normally code in C or C++ but i'm learning Python & wxPython now.
[06:30:01] <SB-X> Are you still working on Lupercalia and in Pascal?
[06:30:12] <ShadwChsr> Yes and no :)
[06:30:27] <SB-X> Why did you change languages?
[06:30:33] <ShadwChsr> Work was busy the past little while so I wasn't able to work on it, but I'm slowly getting into it again.
[06:30:37] <SB-X> oh, you said something about C#
[06:30:48] <SB-X> oh cool ok
[06:31:07] <ShadwChsr> Pascal is alright but the libraries had way too many bugs. It's also difficult to write clean code in it once you get to a certain level.
[06:31:16] <ShadwChsr> I also hated the IDE - I just put up with it at the time.
[06:31:22] <SB-X> I still haven't gotten back into my own game development yet.
[06:31:30] <SB-X> oh
[06:31:44] <SB-X> GCC compiles pascal
[06:32:06] <SB-X> at least the manual implied thats possible
[06:32:11] <SB-X> i wouldn't know
[06:32:11] <ShadwChsr> I ported parts of it to C++ but found myself writing more "framework" code than actual game code. :( Library type stuff.
[06:32:30] <SB-X> why did you use pascal in the first place?
[06:32:54] <ShadwChsr> I didn't know any C++ and VB sucks :)
[06:33:05] <SB-X> ah, hehe
[06:33:17] <SB-X> well, whats so great about C#?
[06:33:29] <ShadwChsr> I abandoned pascal/delphi and forced myself to learn C++ programming, studied how to write good C++ code, etc.
[06:33:48] <ShadwChsr> try {} finally {}. I'm absolutely addicted to it, hehehe :-)
[06:33:56] <SB-X> I'm still not sure I know how to write "good" C++ code. :p
[06:34:11] <SB-X> is that an exception?
[06:34:28] <ShadwChsr> I studied it, but didn't master it. :)
[06:34:42] <ShadwChsr> Yeah...
[06:35:08] <ShadwChsr> For example, in C++ it's difficult to write *clean* code that does this:
[06:36:12] <ShadwChsr> try { db.BeginTransaction(); db.DoStuff(); db.CommitTransaction(); } catch { db.RollbackTransaction(); throw; } finally { free db; }
[06:36:58] <ShadwChsr> If an exception occurs, you need to clean up the local objects or you'll have a memory leak. Even worse, an upstream caller could "eat" the exception and the leak remains even though the app keeps executing.
[06:37:53] <ShadwChsr> In c++ you can either offload the code into a subroutine, a class, or duplicate your code. Or use other grungy code hacks :)
[06:38:29] <ShadwChsr> It's not enough to stop using C++ obviously (hehe) but it's something I really miss when I go back to C++ now.
[06:38:44] <ShadwChsr> I also don't miss "header include hell" anymore :)
[06:39:19] <ShadwChsr> A good application will have clean dependencies between classes - no cross dependencies.
[06:39:51] <ShadwChsr> That's great in a perfect world, but there are cases where you want two classes referencing eachother in a tightly bound "module" of code.
[06:40:36] <ShadwChsr> There are probably "header file management" practices that I wasn't aware of, but I spent a large amount of time fighting with header includes :S
[06:41:55] <SB-X> I havn't seen many projects where classes aren't interdependant.
[06:42:25] <ShadwChsr> Like I said, probably some key thing I was missing :)
[06:42:51] <SB-X> I havn't really studied pentagram's code. Have you decided to switch to Pentagram for your game?
[06:43:09] <ShadwChsr> I'm not sure. Pentagram's code is pretty clean.
[06:43:25] <ShadwChsr> I'll probably fight along with C# but it's kind of a hopeless project anyways ;)
[06:43:29] * servus uses the same classes in two distinct (but related) multiple projects without any code change... *gives a familiar little snurk*
[06:43:31] <SB-X> It's not so much a game engine, as a game OS.
[06:44:19] <SB-X> heh
[06:45:11] <SB-X> I remember servus complaining about Exult's redirection.
[06:45:24] <SB-X> or calls between classes I mean
[06:46:07] <ShadwChsr> Ahh.
[06:47:27] <servus> I gave the same sort of guff to the 3D Max dev team, and it was all well-deserved!
[06:48:37] <ShadwChsr> hehe
[06:55:58] <SB-X> I'm going to play a game.
[06:55:58] <SB-X> cya
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[20:53:21] <skaarj> hi there
[20:53:44] <wjp> hi
[20:55:06] <skaarj> ive just compiled the pentagram engine
[20:55:36] <skaarj> sometimes the games laaags
[20:55:43] <skaarj> is this normal?
[20:55:56] <wjp> when monsters are around?
[20:56:01] <skaarj> jeah
[20:56:16] <wjp> pathfinding is rather bad, at the moment
[20:56:55] <skaarj> and can i hide the debug information on top?
[20:57:06] <wjp> not at the moment
[20:57:13] <skaarj> ok ;)
[20:57:41] <skaarj> an throwing items does not work either doesnt it?
[20:57:47] <wjp> correct
[20:58:09] <skaarj> ok, thanx for the infos ;)
[20:58:14] <wjp> not hard to implement, probably, but somebody needs to sit down and actually implement it
[20:58:23] <wjp> (me, probably :-) )
[20:58:40] <wjp> be sure to report any bugs you find in the bug tracker
[20:59:01] <skaarj> ok
[20:59:17] <wjp> while not everything is implemented yet, we do try to make sure the things we did implement work
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