#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 2 Nov 2002 (GMT)

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[13:20:54] <Colourless> found some 'strange' stuff in the No Remorse shapes. You should check out shapes 359, 383 and 384. You'll want to look at the last few frames in each shape
[13:26:10] <wjp> how do I use the shape viewer with no remorse?
[13:26:58] <Colourless> viewer/globdisp.cc, viewer/shpdisp.cc : A few hacks to get some level
[13:26:59] <Colourless> of Crusader support in. Only Shpdisp and Globdisp will work. Don't
[13:26:59] <Colourless> even think about using Animdip or Mapdisp. Getting Crusader to work
[13:26:59] <Colourless> requires you do the following:
[13:26:59] <Colourless> 1) Convert the crusader shape.flx in to u8shapes.flx using ShapeConv in
[13:26:59] <Colourless> the new Pentagram tools
[13:27:01] <Colourless> 2) Copy the Ultima8 u8mouse.shp into the cursader static dir
[13:27:03] <Colourless> 3) Point the <config/disk/ultima8> setting to the dir where Crusader
[13:27:05] <Colourless> is located.
[13:27:41] <Colourless> you can actually use mapdisp now too
[13:27:45] <wjp> ah, shapeconv actually works already? It doesn't seem to be built yet
[13:27:58] <Colourless> yeah shapeconv works :-)
[13:28:50] <wjp> any idea which .o files you need for it?
[13:29:18] <Colourless> i could guess
[13:29:32] <wjp> I'll just try adding all of them in turn
[13:29:37] <Colourless> you need all of filesys, all of misc
[13:29:40] <Darke> You'll also want to remove fold & disasm from tools/module.mk too. It looks like old/ hasn't been built under linux for a while. *grin*
[13:29:43] <Colourless> and well, all of convert too :-)
[13:29:52] <wjp> :-)
[13:30:13] <wjp> old builds for me
[13:30:21] <wjp> I think
[13:30:23] <wjp> yes, it does
[13:30:31] <Darke> Me too. I had to make that change to get it to build though.
[13:30:59] <Colourless> you 'may' find that old disasm will have a surprise waiting for you if you attempt to run it :-)
[13:32:42] * Darke knows about that, and no, it won't run since it won't compile. Something about lacking a stricmp. *grin*
[13:33:49] <wjp> eeek, lots of compile errors
[13:34:53] <Colourless> yes, that was brought to my attention, and well, it's obsolete so i couldn't be bothered fixing a program, which sole purpose is now to tell people it's obsolete :-)
[13:35:06] * Darke snickers.
[13:35:12] <wjp> I meant compile errors in shapeconv, btw
[13:36:17] <Colourless> what problems?
[13:37:23] <wjp> missing an include, missing a couple of std::'s
[13:37:27] <wjp> nothing big
[13:38:08] <Colourless> ah, that wouldn't surprise me
[13:38:36] <wjp> hm, there's no endline behind the 'Usage: ' error message for me
[13:38:42] <wjp> even though it's there in the source
[13:41:07] * wjp grins at those shapes :-)
[13:41:53] <Colourless> kind of... different aren't they :-)
[13:42:07] <Darke> wjp: Feel like committing your changes so I don't have to duplicate you work to see these shapes? *grin*
[13:42:20] <wjp> I think I just did :-)
[13:42:52] <Colourless> you know, thinking about it, i don't actually realize how i found them.
[13:43:17] <Darke> wjp: Cool. I'm still waiting for the emails about it. *grin*
[13:43:18] <Colourless> i was just scrolling through the shapes and occasionally changing frames
[13:43:31] <Colourless> for whatever reason i stopped on 359
[13:47:36] <wjp> Darke: does the build system still work for you after my tweaks from the last couple of days?
[13:50:15] <Darke> wjp: I've noticed no problems so far. Other then the fact I keep getting an annoying collision on one particular line which has tools/fold in it. *grin*
[13:50:27] <wjp> gee, I wonder why :-)
[13:50:33] * Darke plays shapehunter.
[13:52:20] * Darke blinkies. Ooooook.
[13:53:03] <Darke> Gee... unlike u8, it doesn't look like they were scraping to save bytes, does it? *grin*
[13:53:16] <Colourless> no, not at all :-)
[13:53:27] <Colourless> they shipped on cd :-)
[13:56:40] <wjp> Darke: prepare for another merge conflict ;-)
[13:56:52] <Darke> Nice to see they... umm... thoroughly utilised their art assets. (image 1, colour 1), (broken image 1, colour 1), (image 1, colour 2), (broken image 1, colour 2)... *grin*
[13:57:19] * Darke grumps. That's like the third time in as many days, just for that file! *grin*
[13:57:45] <wjp> I should add an 'install' target to the build system sometime
[13:59:59] <Darke> Hmm... 417 seems to be some of the guns. It has a silly number of frames (1080). *grin*
[14:00:52] <Darke> Some of these shapes really look like they've been done in PovRay or something and not been 'touched up'. *grin*
[14:01:46] <Darke> Nice to see they've even allowed you to blow up the toilet...
[14:01:58] <Colourless> 3d studio is what they used Darke, it's what almost everyone uses :-)
[14:02:46] <Darke> Yes, but I was trying to do the 'ever subtle' hint that the image looked... err... horrible. *grin*
[14:03:25] <Darke> (As in someone just downloaded a copy of PovRay and was suddenly promoted into the art department. *grin*)
[14:05:36] <Darke> 473 seems to be the frames for the projectiles.
[14:07:55] <Darke> Nice to see they've provided 'destroyed' frames for almost everything under the sun. *grin*
[14:24:18] * Darke shudders at the thought of trying to do an art inventory of just one of the games, if we ever get some sort of 'editing' facility for it.
[14:25:18] <Colourless> :-)
[14:25:26] <Colourless> well, the globs seem to be pretty well sorted
[14:26:40] * Darke shudders again at the thought of trying to write individual usecode for _each_ item that can be destroyed.
[14:27:26] <Colourless> unlikely to be that complex
[14:27:34] <Colourless> mostly just copy and past stuff
[14:27:58] <Colourless> any time a new object was added, the usecode would just be duplicated
[14:28:57] <Darke> Sure, but it's got to be teadious even just locating the frames to be used at the appropriate time. IIRC, some of them are even 'backwards' with the destroyed frame before the 'undestroyed' one. *grin*
[14:30:05] <Colourless> well, it's not going to be like all the art would be completed at the same time, all needing usecode
[14:31:15] <Darke> On that thought, is there any way to find out which shapes remain unused? I would presume it'd be impossible currently to find out which frames of shapes, but it'd be interesting to see what got left out. *grin*
[14:32:09] <Colourless> is it possible: well, i would hazzard a guess and say no
[14:32:33] <Colourless> you will need to go through the usecode to find it out
[14:32:51] <Colourless> and you'll need to take into account all possible variables, be cause things could be conditional
[14:35:03] <Darke> Erf. That's right. Some of the usecode actually changes literal shape numbers, rather then frames. Like one set of big doors I saw that was split up as 'one door animation frame per shape' rather then 'one door animation frame per frame in a shape', for reasons _completely_ unknown to me.
[14:38:03] <Colourless> i know the reasons. u8 does it too
[14:38:24] <Colourless> you can only specify the collision detection boundries per shape, not per frame
[14:39:25] * Darke ahhs. Ick. I don't suppose it's possible to fix that? *grin*
[14:39:42] <Colourless> possible: yes, is it worth it, not IMO
[14:39:49] <Darke> Or is it a case of waaaaay too much effort for little gain?
[14:39:51] * Darke ahhs.
[15:28:56] * Darke yawns and wanders off to his warren. Night!
[15:29:02] <Colourless> cya
[15:29:17] * Darke notices that tonight #pentagram has been more active then #exult! Amazing! *grin*
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[21:47:01] <Dominus> if fingolfin shows up some other time we could offe him the jb of designing the pentagram website :-)
[21:47:36] <Dominus> He mentioned he wasn't satisfied with how the exult one was set up by him and if he had a choice he would do it different
[21:48:23] <Dominus> for the record, how bout taking Colourless logo, make the background transparent and use that
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