#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 2 Sep 2003 (GMT)

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[06:50:06] <DarkeZzz> (save/work stuff) You could have the save game folder under the 'work' folder, which was what I was originally planning, but having a seperate folder is good.
[06:51:12] <DarkeZzz> (names) I've been encoding my archive of games something like GamenameVersionLanguage, so you get pagan2.10, regret1.07g, pagan2.12f, and the like.
[06:51:50] <DarkeZzz> So you 'could' follow a similar style if you wish. Or you two letter language codes instead of the one letter one, using the international standard abbreviations, or something. *grin*
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[07:34:20] --- Topic for #pentagram is: http://pentagram.sf.net/
[07:34:20] --- Topic for #pentagram set by wjp at Sat Aug 9 17:22:47 2003
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[09:04:06] <DarkeZzz> Hiya.
[09:05:16] <DarkeZzz> As to filenames, I'd just suggest something like 'mapname.indexnumber.sav' if we can find the map's names easily. Or even 'charactername.index.sav'.
[09:05:43] <wjp> hi
[09:06:01] <DarkeZzz> If it's sitting in @save, mapped to '.pentagram/u8-save/save' it's kinda obvious it's for u8. *grin*
[09:07:09] <wjp> what do you think about renaming GUIApp to PentagramApp?
[09:09:20] <DarkeZzz> I see reasons for and against. *grin* If we're going to have a 'seperate' gui application for doing something pentagram related, but not using the main game app (similar to the ConsoleApp), then it's probably better just deriving PentagramApp from GUIApp, if not (as I would expect) then I don't see a problem. *grin*
[09:11:01] <wjp> well, yes, but that would still mean most of the current GUIApp would go into PentagramApp
[09:12:25] * DarkeZzz upon further thought, prefers the 'charactername.index.save' format, since the character's name is immutable, which it should be, then it makes it easier to sort your saves, pick a character then all saves are just stored under there.
[09:13:28] <DarkeZzz> If we ever support TGWDS, we can just default to 'Crusader' for the name of Da Red Dude, or something. *grin*
[09:13:47] <DarkeZzz> And I prefer 'save' to 'sav', if we're going to go to all the effort to use an extension, we might as well not skimp on a byte. *grin*
[09:21:47] <wjp> save/sav.. I don't really care :-)
[09:22:05] <wjp> character name... hmm...
[09:22:23] <wjp> it has its advantages
[09:22:39] <DarkeZzz> They're in a directory called 'save', so *someone* would have to be rather confused to think of them as being something other then that. *grin*
[09:22:41] <wjp> (e.g., less chance of name clashes between my savegames and user-submitted saves)
[09:23:43] <DarkeZzz> OTOP, it allows 'doze (and linux gui) users to just double click on the save, and have pentagram automatically start up, extract the appropriate game to load from the save file, init and load it without passing through a menu. If we were going to be fancy. *grin*
[09:23:56] <DarkeZzz> That was my initial thought. *grin*
[09:23:57] <wjp> with something generic as .save?
[09:24:51] <wjp> .pentagramsave? :-)
[09:25:26] * DarkeZzz makes warding sign against evil! Back away from me demon!
[09:26:31] * DarkeZzz waits for pyros to appear. *clawtap* *grin*
[09:26:58] <DarkeZzz> .pentsave? .psave? .psv? .pointlessdot?
[09:27:09] <DarkeZzz> ...save?
[09:27:28] <wjp> .wecouldntthinkofanythingsothisisit?
[09:27:55] * DarkeZzz decides we should index the file, by the number of dots between 'charactername' and 'save' so the third file would be 'charname...save' and the 10th 'charname..........save'.
[09:28:20] <DarkeZzz> .weHadTooManyOptionsWeCouldn'tDecideBetweenSoYouGetThisMonstrosity?
[09:28:42] <wjp> ooh, nice :-)
[09:31:33] <DarkeZzz> .weTriedToThinkOfAGoodFilenameAndAllWeGotWasThisLousyExtension?
[09:32:20] <wjp> s/Extension/TShirt^WExtension/ ? :-)
[09:32:34] <DarkeZzz> Much better. *grin*
[09:32:51] <wjp> just in case people miss the reference :-)
[09:32:54] <DarkeZzz> Though I'm not sure how well things will cope with a control character in the filename. *grin*
[09:33:11] <DarkeZzz> Heh.
[09:34:54] <DarkeZzz> .ThisIsASaveFileYouGit!WhatElseDidYouExpectToFindInASaveDirectory?Porn??
[09:35:56] * DarkeZzz is glad that none of these are sufficiently brilliant that Colourless would think about putting them in the quotes file. *grin*
[09:36:02] <wjp> I don't think windows allows question marks, actually
[09:36:48] <DarkeZzz> Nope. It can't haveany of: \/:*?"<>|
[09:37:28] <wjp> shell escaping is too complex, so just disallow anything that would need it? :-)
[09:38:12] <DarkeZzz> I think that's the the thought. *grin*
[09:42:51] <DarkeZzz> I've got a suggestion of '.fnord' as a save extension, but I don't think we've got enough slack. *grin*
[09:48:17] <wjp> anyway, it's pretty meaningless to be able to doubleclick on a savegame file if you can't identify it by name, IMHO
[09:49:34] <DarkeZzz> Yup. For a charname.quicksave.save it might be worth it, but nothing else. But I suppose if we were going to do quicksaves, we might as well just increment the index and create a new save anyway, 170kb diskspace per save is cheap. *grin*
[09:49:52] <wjp> I wouldn't do a per-character-quicksave
[09:50:03] <DarkeZzz> (If Deus Ex can do it for 50Meg save game files, we can do it for our tiny ones! *grin*)
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[09:51:50] * Cinni waves to all and throws flowers.
[09:52:40] * DarkeZzz blinkblinks and wonders what you're doing here. *grin*
[09:53:46] <Cinni> Throwing flowers, isn't if obvious? Anyway, this gives me a better view. I still kinda like .brains for the frst save, and .braiiiiins for the fifth.
[09:55:00] * Cinni ponders. savename.charname.extension?
[09:55:27] <DarkeZzz> Hrm... well... yeah. I still prefer .fnord though, though I'd really prefer something not quite so off the wall. *grin*
[09:56:15] <DarkeZzz> Only problem with that is it makes the savegames filesystem dependant. Linux is quite happy with ?'s in it's filename, whereas windows isn't.
[09:56:29] <Cinni> .fnrd, then. Pretend it's an acronym. :)
[09:56:42] * Cinni growls. I meant without the ?!
[09:57:11] <DarkeZzz> I can't see people adding too weird characters to their char names, but "Where did I put that sword?" is a perfectly valid savegame name, just not a valid filesystem name. *grin*
[09:57:37] * DarkeZzz guessed, and wasn't trying to pervert your intentions... for a change. *grin*
[09:57:44] <Cinni> Heh.
[09:58:10] <wjp> hi Cinni
[09:58:38] <Cinni> Well, then maybe have the filename(for system use) snip out such characters, but have them show up fully when one goes after the file from within the name?
[09:58:44] <Cinni> Hi there wjp. :)
[10:00:29] <wjp> haven't seen you since about january if I can trust exultbot :-)
[10:00:47] <Cinni> Hee!
[10:02:38] * DarkeZzz is just a strange attractor, that's all. *grin* He should have known better to point Cinni in the direction of the .filename discussion logs. *grin*
[10:02:53] * Cinni appreciates it!
[10:05:25] * DarkeZzz snickers.
[10:07:46] <Cinni> .string
[10:09:57] <Cinni> Relating to the practice of tying a strong around one's finger to remind one'self that there is something one should remember.
[10:10:23] <Cinni> If you know anyone who does this, tie one around their finger when they're asleep, just to drive them off the deepp end.
[10:11:13] * DarkeZzz cackles.
[10:12:37] <Cinni> .ear
[10:12:46] <Cinni> Anyone know where from? :)
[10:13:14] <DarkeZzz> .pentagramTheSave? In the traditions of White Wolf's 'Noun: The Verb' roleplaying games? *grin*
[10:13:43] <DarkeZzz> Erm... no? Makes as much sense as your .pants suggestion. *grin*
[10:15:05] * Cinni giggles. I like that WW suggestion. :)
[10:15:38] <Cinni> From folding over the corner of a book's page to keep one's place. I don't like it, myself, and books with pages like that are termed 'dog-eared'.
[10:15:40] <DarkeZzz> Probably have to be .pentagramTheSaving though.
[10:15:52] <Cinni> Heee!
[10:20:43] <DarkeZzz> Ahh.
[10:21:27] <Cinni> Or just .NounTheVerb
[10:25:07] <DarkeZzz> I think we'll end up sticking with .save (or .sav) or whatever, if we even bother to have an extension. Colourless and Kirben are the only two who might care, most unix/mac people couldn't care less about file extensions. *grin*
[10:25:50] <Cinni> Heh. :)
[10:49:12] * Cinni proinks off.
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[11:44:13] <Colourless> hi
[11:44:45] <wjp> hi
[11:45:45] <Colourless> hmm, i can't say i'm impressed by darke's savegame idea
[11:46:14] <wjp> which particular one? :-)
[11:46:34] <Colourless> anything that uses a really long file name :-)
[11:47:31] <Colourless> the idea the i proposed, for quick indexing was the savegame filename, was actually the name of the save games. any more specific indexing should be directory based, not filename based. I remember you complaining about how long it took to index the savegames in exult :-)
[11:49:06] <wjp> yes... 200+ savegames take a while to load :-)
[11:49:16] <Colourless> of course you'd have an extension, but i couldn't care less about what the extension actually was.
[11:55:16] <Colourless> i noticed that there were comment about characters not being valid for filenames in windows
[11:55:20] <Colourless> that... is a problem
[11:55:38] <DarkeZzz> Make a directory with the name of the character, then drop the appropriately named save files underneath it?
[11:56:52] <Colourless> DarkeZzz: that depends on what exactly you mean by 'character'
[11:57:49] <DarkeZzz> You always give your avatar a name, so why not use that? *grin*
[11:58:52] <Colourless> well, yes
[11:59:32] <Colourless> could also make it more specific, and use profiles
[12:00:09] <Colourless> however, still, even with profiles, putting savegames into directories that are named after the avatar is a nice idea
[12:00:56] <Colourless> it would allow options to only show savegames for a certain character
[12:01:29] <Colourless> the idea with profiles of course would be to restrict other people from messing with your savegames
[12:01:52] <DarkeZzz> Yup. My logic. Would also 'fix' problems with users giving us savegames that conflict with our own set.
[12:02:34] <DarkeZzz> Of course, it would also be just as easy to make up a random 128bit uid for each new game, then just append a .index.save to that. *grin*
[12:02:45] <Colourless> but we could just use OS 'home' dirs for profiles, as i've already got support in pentagram that will use the users my documents dir under windows
[12:03:34] <Colourless> uuid... yeah, but how to generate, and incidently, they may cause a performance penalty when indexing, if you have to read a separate index file
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[12:32:49] <Pot> woo dude whats this site!
[12:33:51] <wjp> uh, which site?
[12:34:02] <Colourless> a place for 'pagan' worshippers and 'crusaders'
[12:34:10] <Colourless> :-)
[12:34:16] <wjp> (note that we do not support the latter)
[12:34:57] <wjp> ;-)
[12:38:49] <Pot> woo the rooms buzzing and so is the screen
[12:39:07] <Pot> I better go dude I'm buzzing out real bad
[12:39:09] <Pot> heheheh
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[12:39:35] <wjp> cashman?
[12:40:43] <wjp> hm, yes, I'm fairly sure that was him
[12:41:54] <Colourless> well, if http://dino.shiftedphase.com/ultima/uinfo/general/people/gardian3.jpg
[12:42:00] <Colourless> what the...
[12:42:25] <Colourless> must have pressed 'something' to do a paste
[12:42:54] <DarkeZzz> Heh.
[12:43:07] <DarkeZzz> You have one mysterious irc client Colourless. *grin*
[12:43:25] <Colourless> that would have to be cashman
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[23:18:55] <servus> I was grenaded over the weekend!