#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 3 Dec 2015 (GMT)

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[02:49:39] <-- Dominus has left IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[02:52:08] --> Dominus has joined #pentagram
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[16:07:43] --> LaZar0 has joined #pentagram
[16:07:49] <LaZar0> Hi,
[16:10:57] <LaZar0> hi wjp, sorry for the post in Exult. After Dominus told me you were from Pentagram, I realized you are Willem
[16:12:01] <LaZar0> About my intention to recode a .wav into U8 Pagan Sonarc compressed voice is not for the use in Pentagram, I think that I could do some E44_d.FLX with .WAV files inside, change the original that decodes pentagram for those and then they will work
[16:12:24] <LaZar0> But the problem I have is that if I want to play, let's say with DOSBOX or similar U8Pagan
[16:12:30] <LaZar0> the voices are not encoded properly
[16:12:49] <LaZar0> I tried putting inside E44.FLX for example a .WAV file with 11111khz, mono, 8bit
[16:12:57] <LaZar0> but it does not works, obviously
[16:14:12] <wjp> My guess would be you'd indeed have to encode it with this sonarc algorithm
[16:14:34] <LaZar0> Yes, I've looked at the dcmpsound code you have
[16:14:43] <LaZar0> in Pentagram, but to inverse it
[16:14:55] <LaZar0> I think it will be a bit difficult, and maybe with the decoder is not enough
[16:15:22] <wjp> The techniques used in the algorithm are pretty standard ones
[16:15:38] <LaZar0> Well, not for me, I'm not so good. xD
[16:15:49] <LaZar0> For example
[16:16:00] <wjp> But getting an exact implementation will probably require quite some fiddling around
[16:16:11] <LaZar0> I'm pretty sure of it.
[16:16:33] <LaZar0> There is one thing that I don't understand comparing original Sonarc tools that are in the net and with de decoder used in U8
[16:16:40] <LaZar0> For example, frame samples
[16:16:53] <LaZar0> In U8 files frame samples are 1024 (0x400)
[16:17:09] <LaZar0> In sonarc tools I've not seen anything when compiling a .WAV
[16:17:35] <LaZar0> I've tried compress with sonarc tools a .wav, then modifiy header...
[16:17:41] <LaZar0> but the info is a bit different
[16:18:08] <wjp> Yeah, things are definitely different, but I don't remember the specifics
[16:18:09] <LaZar0> U8 "modes" are another thing a bit different between original sonarc compression and U8 voice files
[16:18:16] <LaZar0> I thought so
[16:18:36] <LaZar0> I was only asking in the case you had (some of you) the algorithm for create the sound files
[16:18:43] <LaZar0> I do not expect you create the algorithm
[16:19:10] <wjp> No, sorry, I don't have an encoder
[16:19:37] <LaZar0> I'm curious... how do you arrive to the conclusion with the decoder algorith?
[16:19:42] <LaZar0> By your own?
[16:20:31] <wjp> Some disassembly, some extrapolation from similar codecs, some trial and error
[16:21:07] <LaZar0> Wow... so I think that I should do the same as I've done with the "semi"decompiler for creating a recreating EUSECODE.fLX...
[16:21:48] <LaZar0> It has not been easy, no tools for translating this thing. It is even worst than U7 or U9...
[16:24:04] <wjp> Yeah, U8 doesn't really have a big community
[16:27:25] <LaZar0> With the translation I used original files from English version (Enhanced version) v2.13. So, I assume the translation would be compatible with pentagram, graphics at least, that it is were the problem was because the headers were obsolete.
[16:29:28] <LaZar0> Ok, I will try to inverse the algorithm you have in dcmpsound, but I think it would be a very complicated. Some modes are not described and I don't know how they work really.
[16:29:34] <LaZar0> One last thing wjp,
[16:30:03] <LaZar0> doing the tool for decompressing U8 voices, I've seen this difference in dcmpsound in Pentagram from the old repository:
[16:30:36] <LaZar0> decode_EC(mode, samplecount,
[16:30:36] <LaZar0> source+8+2*order, size-8-2*order,
[16:30:36] <LaZar0> dest + order);
[16:30:59] <LaZar0> This call is in audio_decode function, this is from the old repository
[16:31:15] <LaZar0> looking at Pentagram dcmpsound.cpp code, I've seen this:
[16:31:27] <LaZar0> decode_EC(mode, samplecount,
[16:31:28] <LaZar0> source+8+2*order, size-8-2*order,
[16:31:28] <LaZar0> dest);
[16:31:59] <LaZar0> === look at the last parameter, "dest+order" in old repository and "dest" in Pentagram
[16:32:34] <LaZar0> If in the tool I put only "dest" as parameter, the .WAV has some errores.
[16:32:40] <LaZar0> I only want to let you know...
[16:32:42] <LaZar0> Hope this helps.
[16:47:52] <LaZar0> Another question I've thought about right now trying Pentagram in Win...
[16:48:45] <LaZar0> Could it be possible to use something like exultmsg.txt in Pentagram for embedded texts like "STR; DEX..." or lines like "Thy your name"/"Pon tu nombre" in Spanish? (there are a few more)...?
[16:48:49] <LaZar0> Could it be possible?
[16:50:46] <wjp> that dest+order is matched by a difference in decode_LPC (doing - order somewhere); it should be fine
[16:52:06] <wjp> I thought we already had that translation?
[16:52:14] <wjp> See data/u8spanish.ini
[16:52:31] <wjp> isn't it working?
[16:57:02] <LaZar0> Oh...
[16:57:10] <LaZar0> so I think that I have an older release
[16:57:15] <LaZar0> I have no data folder
[16:57:22] <LaZar0> I will check
[16:57:28] <wjp> in the sources
[16:58:29] <wjp> they get copied into pentagram.exe
[16:58:44] <wjp> but I _think_ you can override the internal copy with an external copy of those .ini files
[16:58:45] <LaZar0> yes, they are in the sources, but I'm using a build Pentagram before this sources I get about 2-3 months ago
[16:58:58] <wjp> nothing happened for years
[16:58:59] <LaZar0> so if I copy this data folder into old Pentagram, it should work?
[16:59:14] <LaZar0> Yeah... I've seen that... at least you have your first release for MAC... ;)
[16:59:42] <wjp> you may have to experiment a bit to see where it finds u8spanish.ini
[16:59:52] <wjp> but it should work out of the box
[17:00:00] <LaZar0> let's try, give me a bit of time
[17:00:07] <wjp> if it shows English texts in the Spanish version, something is wrong
[17:00:09] <LaZar0> I've hex edited pentagram.exe XDDD
[17:00:17] <LaZar0> no no
[17:00:28] <LaZar0> I'm seeing the spanish translation with accents all
[17:00:33] <LaZar0> it is working flawlessly
[17:01:17] <wjp> then I'm confused by what you want to do
[17:05:20] <LaZar0> It is all working correctly
[17:05:35] <LaZar0> I'm trying to do the data\u8spanish.ini thing you've told me
[17:05:41] <LaZar0> but
[17:05:41] <wjp> but why?
[17:05:48] <LaZar0> let see
[17:05:51] <wjp> if it's already working, and everything is already translated?
[17:05:55] <LaZar0> If I translated over the English version
[17:06:02] <LaZar0> Pentagram detectes English version files... xDD
[17:06:04] <LaZar0> so,
[17:06:40] <wjp> translating what?
[17:06:42] <wjp> into what?
[17:07:10] <LaZar0> STR, DEX... HP, MANA...
[17:07:20] <LaZar0> I'm trying to change it with u8spanish.ini in data folder
[17:07:35] <wjp> I'm completely confused now
[17:07:40] <LaZar0> Let's see
[17:07:51] <wjp> Maybe you should start by saying what you're doing
[17:08:00] <LaZar0> You told me that in data\u8spanish.ini there were the strings for
[17:08:03] <LaZar0> STR/DEX
[17:08:07] <LaZar0> Thy your name
[17:08:08] <LaZar0> right?
[17:08:25] <wjp> The Spanish translations of the English strings, yes
[17:08:29] <LaZar0> so, I put it (changed) Thy your name=Vuestro nombre:
[17:08:35] <LaZar0> for example
[17:08:40] <LaZar0> but I don't make it work
[17:08:54] <LaZar0> the translated EUSECODE.FLX I've done is working perfectly
[17:09:03] <wjp> Please, start at the beginning.
[17:09:12] <wjp> What are you doing?
[17:09:17] <LaZar0> Ok,
[17:09:19] <wjp> I don't read minds
[17:09:31] <LaZar0> I'm trying to explain... my english id bad, so sorry...
[17:09:39] <wjp> What are you translating? Into what?
[17:09:40] <LaZar0> I want to change Thy your name:
[17:09:49] <LaZar0> and put "Vuestro nombre:"
[17:10:02] <LaZar0> I've modified u8spanish.ini
[17:10:11] <wjp> ("Give thy name:", by the way)
[17:10:16] <LaZar0> and left Thy your name:=Vuestro nombre:
[17:10:28] <wjp> Please...
[17:10:31] <wjp> Back five steps
[17:10:41] <LaZar0> Let's see
[17:10:44] <wjp> What's your project? What are you doing?
[17:10:48] <wjp> No details yet
[17:10:55] <LaZar0> My project?
[17:10:58] <wjp> yes...
[17:11:34] <LaZar0> phone call sorry
[17:11:51] <wjp> Are you not happy with the official spanish translation of U8 which has "Pon tu nombre"?
[17:11:55] <LaZar0> I'm translating English version of U8 Pagan into spanish
[17:12:10] <wjp> But why? There _is_ a Spanish U8
[17:12:21] <LaZar0> Well, that's an important question
[17:12:30] <LaZar0> if you want I explain it to you, are you interested?
[17:12:37] <wjp> depends on how long the answer is?
[17:12:42] <LaZar0> a few lines
[17:12:50] <LaZar0> I hope you understand why I'm doing the translation
[17:12:58] <wjp> As long as you're aware that there already is an official translation...
[17:13:07] <LaZar0> Yeah, BUT the official translation:
[17:13:18] <LaZar0> 1.- Has never been patched to 2.12
[17:13:45] <LaZar0> 2.- Has a bug that never has been resolved and the Spanish version never can be finished (Tear of Seas problem), I think you're aware of that
[17:14:24] <LaZar0> 3.- There are missing fonts like 'Á' 'É'... (uppercase) in tombstones, plaques, dialogue and books.
[17:15:34] <LaZar0> 4.- As in English version (it uses old english language)... in Spanish we have an old spanish language, we call it (tratamiento de "usía"). De Usted (more or less). I'm trying to create an environment for Ultima games. I've done that in U7 SI+SS (SS never was translated) and in the FanPatch for U9
[17:15:48] <LaZar0> Maybe there are more reasons, but I think that that are enought.
[17:15:52] <LaZar0> sorry... enough
[17:15:53] <wjp> I see
[17:16:47] <LaZar0> So... that's why I'm translating the latest patched English version of U8
[17:17:01] <LaZar0> I tried this from 5 years ago
[17:17:25] <LaZar0> but, the code was too much difficult for me in that time, and there were non existant tools for do it
[17:17:53] <LaZar0> Until I've disassembled USECODE classes, looked at them, and seen how I could translate the texts into spanish.
[17:18:03] <LaZar0> I hope this answers hope to understand you my intention on doing that.
[17:18:13] <LaZar0> I'm a translator in clandlan.net FYI
[17:24:51] <wjp> so I'm guessing currently Pentagram thinks your translation is in fact English?
[17:25:15] <wjp> or did you change the game detection to recognize it as Spanish?
[17:25:41] <LaZar0> You're guessing well, that is I was trying to write some few lines before... xD
[17:25:52] <LaZar0> I've put u8spanish in data folder
[17:25:56] <LaZar0> as in sources
[17:26:04] <LaZar0> but it gets the embedded code of pentagram.exe
[17:26:05] <wjp> Well, u8spanish.ini won't do anything
[17:26:15] <LaZar0> what do you mean?
[17:26:18] <wjp> Because it thinks it's English
[17:26:25] <LaZar0> right
[17:26:47] <LaZar0> how detects pentagram if it is spanish?
[17:26:59] <LaZar0> I'm using original u8.exe but hex edited, of course
[17:27:07] <wjp> It checks eusecode.flx
[17:27:14] <LaZar0> shit
[17:27:19] <LaZar0> is the same
[17:27:33] <LaZar0> but with length changed
[17:27:44] <wjp> It has an interesting check to see if it's English or Spanish
[17:28:24] <wjp> It looks at usecode function 183, and looks for the word "tableware" or "vajilla"
[17:28:25] <LaZar0> well spanish eusecode has not class name class
[17:28:40] <LaZar0> this is ok
[17:28:44] <LaZar0> I use anyway vajilla
[17:28:52] <wjp> Ok, so then it should detect it's Spanish
[17:28:59] <LaZar0> let me check, one momento
[17:29:01] <LaZar0> moment
[17:29:20] <LaZar0> 183 in hex or in decimal?
[17:29:28] <wjp> decimal
[17:29:47] <LaZar0> ok B5
[17:29:47] <wjp> Doesn't pentagram give the detected language in the startup output?
[17:30:05] <LaZar0> it goes too fast in my computer that I can not see it
[17:30:28] <wjp> It gets logged
[17:30:38] <wjp> pstdout.txt and pstderr.txt
[17:30:42] <wjp> which get put... somewhere
[17:31:44] <LaZar0> Loading translation: @data/u8spanish.ini
[17:31:49] <LaZar0> so it should get it
[17:31:50] <wjp> right
[17:31:52] <LaZar0> but it does not
[17:32:00] <wjp> You should look a bit higher to see what it uses for @data
[17:32:08] <wjp> Something like
[17:32:10] <wjp> virtual path "@data": /usr/local/share/pentagram
[17:33:06] <LaZar0> Default home path: C:\Users\Juan\AppData\Roaming\Pentagram
[17:33:16] <LaZar0> I've put data folder here
[17:33:19] <wjp> No
[17:33:23] <wjp> You want @data
[17:33:24] <LaZar0> and in Pentagram
[17:33:33] <LaZar0> Default data path: data
[17:34:58] <wjp> I wonder where that ends up being in Windows
[17:35:16] <wjp> directory of pentagram.exe maybe?
[17:35:19] <LaZar0> Loading console font config: @data/fixedfont.ini... Ok
[17:35:23] <LaZar0> I'm not sure
[17:35:38] <LaZar0> I've put @data folder in appdata and in pentagram folder
[17:36:01] <wjp> Call it "data", not "@data"
[17:36:11] <wjp> @data is just an internal pentagram thing
[17:36:42] <wjp> What makes you think it's not finding it, by the way?
[17:36:48] <LaZar0> yeah, when I'm referring to @data is for you, I understand it
[17:36:57] <LaZar0> I have not said it is not finding it
[17:37:04] <LaZar0> this is in the .ini
[17:37:05] <LaZar0> path=c:\games\u8
[17:37:07] <LaZar0> so
[17:37:19] <LaZar0> I guess it is getting from here
[17:37:25] <LaZar0> but I'm not sure
[17:37:39] <wjp> that's an unrelated path
[17:38:11] <LaZar0> maybe from U8 install path?
[17:38:14] <LaZar0> let's try
[17:38:23] <wjp> what are you trying?
[17:38:37] <wjp> Because I'm not sure what you're currently testing...
[17:39:09] <LaZar0> I'm trying that Pentagram gets the modified u8spanish.ini
[17:39:20] <LaZar0> tryied data folder in U8 Install folder but it does not worked either
[17:39:21] <wjp> And how are you checking if it's getting it?
[17:39:25] <LaZar0> Well
[17:39:29] <LaZar0> running pentagram
[17:39:40] <LaZar0> It says always "Pon tu nombre:"
[17:39:44] <LaZar0> and not "Vuestro nombre:"
[17:39:50] <LaZar0> let me check again u8spanish.ini
[17:40:37] <LaZar0> it is ok "Give thy name:=Vuestro nombre:"
[17:40:47] <LaZar0> but always shows embedded code "Pon tu nombre:"
[17:41:35] <wjp> oh, wait
[17:42:02] <LaZar0> sure, no problem
[17:42:04] <wjp> you need to put dataoverride=true in the .ini
[17:42:12] <LaZar0> pentagram.ini?
[17:42:21] <wjp> yes
[17:44:00] <LaZar0> ok
[17:44:02] <LaZar0> now wokr!
[17:44:04] <LaZar0> works!
[17:44:08] <wjp> great
[17:44:16] <wjp> completely forgot about that setting...
[17:44:27] <LaZar0> data folder should be in "Pentagram folder"
[17:44:45] <wjp> makes sense
[17:44:48] <LaZar0> not in appdata
[17:45:36] <LaZar0> are there compatible savegames between dosbox and pentagram? I want to try the voices?
[17:45:50] <wjp> No
[17:46:15] <wjp> Supporting u8 savegames in pentagram is effectively impossible
[17:46:38] <wjp> But we have teleport cheats and such
[17:46:54] <LaZar0> Well... for a programmer there is never impossible right? You know...
[17:47:02] <wjp> effectively :-)
[17:47:22] <LaZar0> I assume it has a bunch of things to check and the cost is not equivalent to the work done.
[17:47:33] <wjp> The savegames are basically memory dumps, with raw pointers in there and such
[17:47:33] <LaZar0> This is hapenning to me with the voices and make them in spanish.
[17:48:35] <LaZar0> but where is the difficulty? To know where are going this pointers maybe?
[17:53:43] <LaZar0> So credits and quotes font is not the same as in original U8 right?
[20:03:46] <LaZar0> OK, see you another day.
[20:03:48] <LaZar0> Bye!
[20:03:52] <-- LaZar0 has left IRC ()