#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 3 May 2004 (GMT)

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[02:15:37] <watt> I'm hating glut now... input handling is a mess.
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[10:58:52] <Colourless> hi
[11:02:45] <Darke> Nanoo!
[11:56:36] <wjp> hi
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[12:26:19] <ElleVeeDee> y0
[12:27:31] <Colourless> greetings
[12:27:37] <ElleVeeDee> and salutations
[12:28:03] <Colourless> y0 and salutations doesn't usually go :-)
[12:28:06] <wjp> hi
[12:28:18] <khalek> hey
[12:30:29] <ElleVeeDee> that sonarcx.exe thingie you talked bout the other week, where could one get that?
[12:30:56] * ElleVeeDee wonders why y0 and salutations dont go together... its so tricky, this politeness stuff.
[12:32:03] <khalek> I wouldn't be in a hurry to hold irc up as an example of how to be polite
[12:32:05] <Colourless> search for sonarc on google. you may find it
[12:32:47] <ElleVeeDee> i'll give it a go, tho I expect to find a bunch of exult/pentagram logs instead. brb.
[12:35:01] <Colourless> also if you want i wrote a program that can use sonarcx to decompress the sounds as best as can be done
[12:35:33] <wjp> http://www.firstpr.com.au/audiocomp/lossless/sonarc/
[12:36:02] <Colourless> it's not too great though as you get a fair amount of distortion after the first 'chunk'
[12:36:54] <ElleVeeDee> does this mean just using sonarcx wont be good at all?
[12:37:41] <Colourless> pretty much :-)
[12:38:22] <ElleVeeDee> fudge. but then, yes, I would like your app. If you wont mind givin it.
[12:38:28] <Colourless> while the sounds in u8 are compressed using sonarc compression, they do not use the same file format that sonarc/sonarcx supports
[12:38:59] <wjp> main header and chunk headers are different, right?
[12:39:18] <Colourless> chunk headers are identical
[12:39:54] <wjp> wasn't their some problem on chunk boundaries?
[12:39:58] <wjp> s/their/there/
[12:40:32] <Colourless> however... and this is the problem... sonarc uses the last 6 bytes from the previous chunk when doing it's decompression of the current chunk
[12:40:48] <Colourless> u8 is different in that it always uses 0 for the 6 previous bytes
[12:41:23] <Colourless> the source is here: http://www.users.on.net/triforce/u8tosnc.c
[12:41:40] <ElleVeeDee> cool
[12:42:45] <Colourless> all that program does is create snc file from the u8 source (just createa a main header) and then attempts to run sonarcx
[12:43:16] <ElleVeeDee> ok. and the results will be "listenable", but not great?
[12:43:57] <Colourless> they will be recognizable
[12:44:39] <ElleVeeDee> k
[12:44:52] <Colourless> now, if you want 'perfect' sound, you want pentagram old's dcmpsound
[12:45:10] <ElleVeeDee> oh?
[12:45:25] <Colourless> yes :-)
[12:45:30] <ElleVeeDee> i read about that somewhere in the docs folder, I think.
[12:45:40] <ElleVeeDee> but, is there a dcmpsound IN pentagram now?
[12:45:59] * ElleVeeDee decides to buy a new set of eyes...
[12:46:02] <wjp> in the old cvs repository
[12:46:03] <Colourless> it exists, but the code hasn't been ported over to pentgram new
[12:46:35] <ElleVeeDee> ah.
[12:48:05] <Colourless> dcmpsound creates new flex files that contain the sounds converted to wav files
[12:48:14] <Colourless> it requires ultima8.exe to work
[12:48:55] <wjp> u8.exe
[12:49:12] <ElleVeeDee> that sounds much better. think I will give that a try, rather than sonarcx.
[12:49:31] <Colourless> uh, yeah u8.exe :-)
[12:49:39] <Colourless> it's also platform portable :-)
[12:50:18] <Colourless> i 'think' it will run if you copy it to your ultima8 did and just run it
[12:50:25] <Colourless> it will convert all the flexes
[12:50:44] <Colourless> otherwise if you have a valid pentagram old pentagram.cfg file it will also work
[12:51:36] <ElleVeeDee> k, browsin the repository now...
[12:51:52] * ElleVeeDee is learning a whole new vocabulary since joining this #
[12:56:23] <Colourless> if you want a precompiled windows version you can get it here: http://www.users.on.net/triforce/dcmpsound.zip
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[15:37:54] <ElleVeeDee> This channel is an excellent resource place. Thanks for the sound info, and the DCMP.
[15:39:46] <Colourless> well, you're questions are within our area of specialty... namely ultima 8 :-)
[15:41:59] <ElleVeeDee> oh, THATs why I keep coming back. I knew there was something...
[15:47:33] <ElleVeeDee> Is there something in U8 to match U7's text.flx, or is it way more complicated?
[15:48:58] <wjp> way more complicated
[15:49:08] <wjp> item descriptions are generated by usecode
[15:50:31] <Colourless> so that would be a no :-)
[15:50:35] <Colourless> BUT...
[15:51:17] <Colourless> you can get the names of the usecode classes from the usecode file for shapes that have classes. They are 8 letters long and aren't always really words, but they are a type of description
[15:52:10] <ElleVeeDee> ok, I'll begin there. When Im extracting 1k+ shapes, its nice to give them some sort of name and not just a number.
[16:06:21] <Colourless> there's not 1k shapes BTW. There is only 761 from memory :-)
[16:06:45] <Colourless> of was that 781?
[16:06:55] <ElleVeeDee> huh?
[16:07:00] <ElleVeeDee> oh, true. theres like 851 me thinks.
[16:07:05] <ElleVeeDee> u7 had 1k tho, no?
[16:07:32] <Colourless> yes u7 had 1k. SI had 1x+12
[16:07:57] <Colourless> btw, what exactly are you doing?
[16:09:10] <ElleVeeDee> Im not doing what you guys are. Im just extracting as much crap as possible from the U games.
[16:09:33] <ElleVeeDee> maps of cities, portraits, lands, speech, shapes, fonts, whatever.
[16:09:52] <Colourless> i was kind of guessing that... but why :-)
[16:10:11] <ElleVeeDee> now, THATs the question. ;-)
[16:10:15] <Colourless> some top secret project you don't want me to know about? :-)
[16:10:31] <ElleVeeDee> hehee, no, I dunno, it's fun.
[16:10:51] <ElleVeeDee> I consider myself done with U1-U6, but I do have problems with the full map of U7/SI...
[16:10:58] <ElleVeeDee> ...and Ive now started a little with U8.
[16:12:31] <ElleVeeDee> Which, of course, isnt any easier.
[16:13:56] <Colourless> you could always just modify pentagram old's map viewer
[16:14:13] <ElleVeeDee> You have an old map viewer...?
[16:14:34] <Colourless> there is a lot of stuff in the old cvs repository
[16:14:55] <ElleVeeDee> Ok. I just went for the sound decompressor. I'll go have another look.
[16:18:44] <wjp> brb, going home
[16:18:51] <Colourless> cya wjp
[16:21:36] <Colourless> ElleVeeDee: 'old' contains shpdisp, globdisp, mapdisp, animdisp, u8extract, u8savextract, unpackshp, ancient versions of disasm and fold, a 'prototype' usecode interpreter, dcmpsound, quotes/credits decryptor
[16:28:54] <ElleVeeDee> ok, gonna take a look at the map/glob parts. and the quotes and credits decryptor interests me too.
[16:29:02] <ElleVeeDee> Thanks a bunch, I'll be back later.
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[16:48:47] <wjp> wb
[16:49:44] <Colourless> holy crap... Atari has announced a DnD Real Time Strategy game
[16:50:16] <wjp> rts? dnd? sounds... weird
[16:50:23] <Colourless> s/has annoucned/will announce at E3/
[16:50:40] <Colourless> http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/dungeonsanddragonsrts/preview_6095102.html and http://pc.gamespy.com/articles/510/510218p1.html
[16:53:03] <wjp> hm, sounds as if the DnD aspects would be fairly limited
[17:30:38] <Colourless> i imagine that at it's base the combat mechanics are probably going to be based around D20.... but how far it might stray is a different matter all togethrt
[18:29:02] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/ShapeViewerGump.png
[18:43:27] <Colourless> cool
[18:43:45] <Colourless> you should probably make it centre the shape :-)
[18:43:50] <wjp> yeah, working on that
[18:44:19] <wjp> also thinking of adding some of those editor buttons from u8gumps.flx for fun :-)
[18:44:36] <wjp> currently it's modal and uses the keyboard for navigation
[18:47:10] <wjp> hm, maybe I should have the Shape class compute the maximum dimensions of the frames in it while loading
[18:47:56] <wjp> that way it could center the shapes while keeping the relative positions of the frames intact
[18:48:19] <wjp> of course I could also just loop through the frame when switching shape
[18:48:28] <wjp> s/frame/frames/
[18:55:10] <Colourless> :-)
[18:55:48] <Colourless> should be able to do it as a normal gump
[18:56:20] <Colourless> but it's probably more useful as a modal
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[20:23:56] <Dominus> hi
[20:24:24] <Colourless> hi
[20:24:53] <Dominus> Just wanted to let you know we have a old-pentagram-cvs-snapshot at http://exult.sourceforge.net/snapshots/pentagram/Pentagramwin32.exe
[20:25:21] <Dominus> and zip of the source at http://exult.sourceforge.net/snapshots/pentagram/Pentagram.zip
[20:26:37] <wjp> hi
[20:26:47] <Dominus> so maybe LVD can make use of that :-)
[21:09:08] <wjp> ok, shape centering working now
[21:10:01] <Dominus> another one bites the dust...
[21:10:31] <wjp> hm?
[21:11:05] <Dominus> another thing working
[21:12:31] <wjp> not one of the more important things, unfortunately :-)
[21:14:00] <wjp> hm, I think I'll have the 'textmode' thingie always send keydown/keyup events, even when also sending textinput events
[21:42:39] <Colourless> going
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