#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 4 Jan 2005 (GMT)

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[00:20:36] <watt> ok... I don't think I'll drive to work tomorrow... it's too damn dangerous
[00:21:02] <servus> watt, snow, or gcc?
[00:21:58] <watt> ice... It's refusing to snow.. just turning to ice as it hits your car and the road.
[00:22:15] <servus> yeah still sleeting here
[00:22:23] <watt> I had to pull over twice to scrap the ice off.
[00:22:40] <watt> I'm not even going to consider the interstate
[00:22:46] <servus> I've never been in an honest-to-goodness Ice Storm, so I can't say I know precisely what you mean, by we get plenty of snow and sleet.
[00:23:43] <watt> It's not quite an ice storm... it's more or less just raining and turing after it comes down..
[00:24:39] <watt> chunks aren't falling or anything....but I did run into a fire hydrant
[00:25:39] <servus> I consider an ice stom to be wet-until-it-hits, but as I said, I've only seen it in the movies :-)
[00:26:53] <watt> I thought it was more along the lines of hail and water
[00:27:03] <watt> I could be wrong.
[00:50:08] <watt> um... is that change correct?
[00:50:10] <watt> +       unsigned int n = sources.size();
[00:50:10] <watt>         for (unsigned int i = 0; i < sources.size(); ++i) {
[00:50:11] <watt> -               if (sources[i]->exists(index))
[00:50:11] <watt> -                       return sources[i];
[00:50:12] <watt> +               if (sources[n-i]->exists(index))
[00:50:14] <watt> +                       return sources[n-i];
[00:51:04] <watt> Would that attempt sources[sources.size] first and sources[1] last?
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[01:22:01] <watt> Soooo... what debian dist should I go with for my old laptop???
[01:39:44] <watt> sid's caught my attention.. any of them have xorg-x11?
[01:40:53] <servus> Not that I know of
[01:41:03] <servus> They're all pretty much the same, and the line is very blurry
[01:41:12] <servus> You can upgrade any old Debian to any new one without having to reboot
[02:28:37] <watt> I soooo hate floppies...
[03:01:30] <watt> yay! I think it's working
[03:09:08] <watt> heh "All files in one partition (recommended for new users)" kinda makes me feel bad about using just one partition.. but I need to cram space on this thing.. can't afford to have unused space in one partition when another might need it.
[05:12:22] <watt> well... that was extremely painless to install
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[09:42:17] <wjp> watt: um, right, stupid bug
[09:44:12] <wjp> Colourless: that gcc issue I ran into last night was indeed a gcc bug (interesting link in logs)
[09:46:04] <Colourless> yeah just read it
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[15:57:57] <watt> hmm.. flat tire... not really willing to deal with that just yet... think this means I'm not going into work today... I simply don't feel safe
[15:58:34] <servus> Blame Lady Mordea.
[15:59:49] <watt> works for me
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[20:19:00] <Shakkara> hello all
[20:24:00] <wjp> hi
[20:24:09] <Shakkara> you're dutch right?
[20:24:15] * wjp nods
[20:24:28] <Shakkara> is dutch allowed here or english only?
[20:24:47] <Shakkara> didn't read the rules I'm affraid
[20:24:58] <wjp> hm, well, depends on who you want to talk to :-)
[20:25:00] <Shakkara> bah can do english anyway so let's stick to english
[20:25:10] <Shakkara> doesn't matter who, and you seem to be the only one active now
[20:25:21] <Shakkara> Hmmm anyway I've got some questions
[20:25:26] <Colourless> I'm active!
[20:25:35] <Colourless> at lurking
[20:25:38] <wjp> ask away
[20:25:40] <Shakkara> I want to extract graphics, animations and sound from the Crusader games
[20:25:42] <wjp> Colourless: :-)
[20:25:59] <Shakkara> apparantly there's a program to do the sound, but it doesnt recognize my soundcard
[20:26:12] <servus> I'm asking lots of questions with no answers in #exult :-)
[20:26:17] <servus> wjp: See 3D models in Exult?
[20:26:27] <servus> I'm working on making actual content now -- doing some modelling.
[20:26:35] <wjp> I saw a screenshot of some trees earlier I think
[20:26:38] <wjp> pretty cool :-)
[20:27:07] <wjp> wow, I seem to have made quite a mess of my crusader directories
[20:27:17] <Shakkara> anyway I hope to get the animations and graphics from Crusader some day, and put them in RunUO, an UO server emulator :P
[20:27:40] <servus> What good are graphics on a server?
[20:27:56] <Shakkara> to patch clients :P
[20:28:27] <Colourless> is UO view the same as u8?
[20:28:39] <Colourless> always looked a little different to me
[20:28:56] <Shakkara> uhh I've never played U8, but its the same as crusader so I guess so
[20:29:26] <wjp> graphics and animations in crusader should be the same as u8, I think
[20:29:31] <servus> I need to bug some Exult people for a couple moments, sometime... ;)
[20:29:48] <Colourless> as far as things look to me, u8 and crusader look to be from a lower angle than UO
[20:29:48] <wjp> so you might be able to directly use some of our tools to extract data, or use the specs to write new tools
[20:29:52] <Shakkara> yes same engine, also uses FLX and PAl's
[20:30:01] <Shakkara> PALs I mean
[20:30:20] <wjp> FLX is a generic container format, doesn't say much about the actual graphics format
[20:30:37] <Shakkara> oh, well I didn't get very far unfortunately
[20:30:39] <wjp> but graphics format is the same regardless :-)
[20:30:41] <Colourless> U8 and crusader virtually identical
[20:30:49] <Colourless> except for bitness
[20:31:01] <Shakkara> yes, crusader looks awful, even today
[20:31:08] <Shakkara> uhh awfully good I mean
[20:31:12] <Shakkara> :)
[20:31:25] <Shakkara> It's still my favorite game allround
[20:31:45] <Shakkara> well except UO perhaps but you don't kill people like Crusader allows you to hehehe
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[20:33:03] <Shakkara> but hmm can you give me some advice how to proceed with your tools, I only found out about all your stuff half an hour ago
[20:34:41] <wjp> I'm afraid it'll require quite a bit of DIY :-)
[20:35:10] <Shakkara> like what?
[20:35:24] <wjp> kind of depends on how you want the data
[20:42:03] <Shakkara> well uhh bitmaps would be fine
[20:42:15] <Shakkara> sorry was away for a moment, am fixing people's PC and stuff\
[20:43:04] <Shakkara> and animations dont matter much as long as it is animated, maybe .gif would be best because I could use that as avatar on forums hehehe but I doubt that'll be easy
[20:44:08] <Shakkara> but hmm do I need to compile this program myself or what is this?
[20:47:07] <wjp> you'll have to do some programming yourself, most likely
[20:47:59] <Shakkara> hmm what kind?
[20:48:08] <wjp> read data, convert data, write data :-)
[20:48:17] <servus> Couldn't be worse than an Ultima 6 to Ultima 7 map converter...
[20:48:18] <Shakkara> I've only got SOME knowledge with BASIC and even less with C#
[20:48:33] <Shakkara> and this is neither I assume
[20:48:46] <servus> My first Ultima 7 decoder was in GW-Basic :-)
[20:49:18] <Shakkara> well the BASIC I wrote was a 4kb program for a TI-83 to convert numbers to different systems
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[20:49:33] <Shakkara> didn't make a single error with that and was proud of that but meh
[20:58:07] <Shakkara> but hmm what would you suggest I do?
[20:58:22] <Shakkara> or is it the usual "go away n00b and wait till WE do it"
[20:58:52] <Colourless> well, without C++ you probably wont be able to do much
[21:01:10] <Shakkara> hmm any other way to get graphics out of crusader without taking 10000 screenshots and piecing that all together?
[21:03:08] <Colourless> probably not
[21:04:06] <Shakkara> hmm but there already is a tool for U8 that should decompress those flx files, however it keeps crashing no matter what I try when using it on crusader
[21:04:50] <Colourless> u8 and crusader file formats are slightly different
[21:05:23] <Shakkara> hmm and I guess there is no easy way around that?
[21:05:54] <Colourless> well, strictly speaking there is...
[21:06:05] <Colourless> pentagram contains a program called shapeconv
[21:06:16] <Colourless> that can convert the crusader flex into a ultima 8 flex
[21:06:21] <Colourless> then your program should work
[21:06:59] <Shakkara> oh that would be great, lets see
[21:09:08] <Shakkara> uhh but the program I use also needs a pal file, what's that and would it give problems?
[21:10:01] <Colourless> should be the same i think
[21:10:51] <Colourless> convert shapes.flx into u8shapes.flx using shapeconv (make sure you specify the correct settings for it)
[21:11:12] <Colourless> and then copy gamepal.pal to u8pal.pal
[21:11:23] <Colourless> if you've done it right, it should work
[21:14:50] <Shakkara> copy gamepal to u8pal? if you meant rename it doesnt work, program still crashes
[21:14:55] <Shakkara> or do I have to convert it too?
[21:15:19] <Colourless> should just rename/copy that file
[21:15:21] <Colourless> i think
[21:17:04] <Shakkara> doesnt work same crash so that program doesnt like the gamepal file
[21:17:42] <Shakkara> and when I tried to convert it with shapeconv I got a file of over a GB before I closed the dos prompt :P
[21:17:57] <Colourless> try just using it with the u8pal from ultima8 if you have it
[21:18:32] <Shakkara> dont have
[21:18:47] <Shakkara> I dont have any ultima before UO
[21:19:34] <Colourless> oh
[21:22:47] <wjp> how did you run shapeconv?
[21:25:34] <Colourless> oh... crusader palettes are also missing the 4 byte 'header' of the u8 pals
[21:25:46] <Colourless> so can't just copy
[21:28:48] <Colourless> you need to somehow add 4 bytes to the beginning of the cursader pal file
[21:28:57] <Shakkara> ok that's not a problem
[21:29:07] <Shakkara> doesnt matter what?
[21:29:18] <Colourless> i'll check what it should be
[21:32:54] <Colourless> 00 00 00 01
[21:33:01] <Colourless> i doubt it matters
[21:38:10] <Shakkara> doesnt give error anymore but crashes to desktop instead now... :(
[21:38:40] <Colourless> how are you running shapeconv?
[21:39:32] <Shakkara> from command prompt
[21:39:50] <Shakkara> in windows 98
[21:40:04] <Colourless> what command line
[21:40:15] <Colourless> what exactly are you typing in
[21:40:19] <Shakkara> shapeconv shapes.flx u8shapes.flx
[21:40:25] <Colourless> that is not correct
[21:40:31] <Shakkara> oh
[21:40:34] <Colourless> you need to specify the output type
[21:40:41] <Colourless> just run shapeconv it should tell you
[21:41:34] <Shakkara> yes and the default output is u8 it sais
[21:41:42] <Colourless> it is?
[21:41:44] <Colourless> oh
[21:41:44] <Shakkara> yah
[21:41:51] <Colourless> then it should have worked
[21:43:12] <Shakkara> do I need to convert more flx files maybe?
[21:43:18] <Shakkara> crusader has a whole lot more
[21:43:22] <Colourless> no should only need those 2
[21:44:24] <Colourless> could try converting gumps u8gumps and fonts to u8fonts and mouse.shp to u8mouse.shp
[21:44:32] <Colourless> that is gumps to u8gumps
[21:45:09] <Shakkara> wait the readme sais it uses
[21:45:20] <Shakkara> shapes gumps and fonts
[21:45:25] <Shakkara> so I'll do the others now
[21:49:13] <Shakkara> cannot convert fonts.flx, sais frames are corrupt?
[21:49:30] <Shakkara> if I just rename, and have gumps properly converted, then the program still crashes
[21:53:24] <wjp> I should be going; night
[21:53:30] <Shakkara> okay see you
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