#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 9 Jun 2003 (GMT)

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[10:18:56] <Ember> Greetings Master of Container Gumps. *grin*
[10:19:08] <wjp> um, hi :-)
[10:19:53] * Ember admits she was tempted (in her own innocent way!) to submit half a dozen bugs with container handling today, but decided she had better things to do. *grin*
[10:20:05] <wjp> feel free :-)
[10:20:14] <wjp> more tracker activity helps our activity rating ;-)
[10:20:25] <wjp> (which is doing rather well, incidentally)
[10:21:18] <Ember> Ahh! So *that's* why we're using the tracker, to artifically increase our rating, rather then to actually track bugs! *Now* I understand! ^.^
[10:22:01] <wjp> of course :-)
[10:22:18] <wjp> although I guess tracking bugs is a useful side-effect
[10:22:44] * Ember snickers.
[10:22:58] <wjp> I have some local uncommitted changes here, btw
[10:23:12] <wjp> (implementing item locations in gumps)
[10:23:20] <Ember> Ooooh!
[10:23:39] <wjp> so if you click on a fish in a basket (just a random example *cough*), the 'fish' will actually be displayed over the fish
[10:24:20] <wjp> I also made closing a container gump close all the container gumps of its contents
[10:24:30] * Ember pouts! No fair! She can't report that fishy bug!
[10:24:35] <wjp> although I'm not entirely sure if that's the way the original works
[10:24:45] <wjp> Ember: ah, but you already have a fishy bug in the tracker
[10:24:54] <wjp> (although the fish are hardly relevant there :-) )
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[10:25:07] <Darke> So? Having more fishy bugs are good things!
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[10:25:56] <Darke> Having the gump disappear when you walk it off the screen would be good. Either that or having it follow you would be good also. Don't know how the original handled it. *grin*
[10:26:12] <wjp> we do things the same as the original
[10:26:30] <wjp> IIRC, it is possible to lose a gump far offscreen in the original :-)
[10:26:43] <Darke> Heh.
[10:26:53] <wjp> closing it when it's too far is probably a good idea, though
[10:27:10] * Darke would have thought it'd have closed when it got an exitFastArea.
[10:27:33] <wjp> yeah, that's how that would be implemented
[10:34:53] <wjp> I wonder if you could always manipulate items in gumps, even if the container was rather far away
[10:35:25] <Darke> Umm... ask Colourless? *grin*
[10:35:54] <wjp> Colourless: can you always manipulate items in gumps, even if the container is rather far away?
[10:36:57] <wjp> Darke: he's not answering ;-)
[10:37:36] <Darke> Just wait for a while. You know Dragons, think they've got centuries to answer questions. *grin*
[10:37:43] <Cashman> hehe
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[11:03:48] <Cashman> hey how are things going
[11:05:18] <Cashman> I decided to get latest copy of pentagram to see whats potting - is pentagram commandline driven now?? or have I linked wrong!
[11:05:23] <Darke> Slow. I'm rewriting a chunk of 'smart' code, to it's equlivant 'dumb' code, since the former was too much of a pain to decipher and to debug.
[11:08:58] <Cashman> hehe oops ok fixed
[11:09:36] * Cashman notes not to link fold.obj
[11:12:21] <Darke> Yes, you will only create pain and suffering for yourself if you do that. *grin*
[11:27:59] <Cashman> hey nice! Darke I was just exploring the other maps
[11:28:51] <Cashman> couldn't see the guard / peasent scenes? most most eggs show..
[11:30:01] <wjp> guard/peasant scenes should work
[11:30:10] <wjp> the chance of them happening is rather low, though
[11:30:42] <wjp> there's still some bug that two of them can play at the same spot
[11:32:46] <Darke> Hmm... there's a 'teleporter' like thing in front of a throne in the big red house in the middle of tenbrae, it is supposed to start animating only when you get close, or when you enterFastArea? Currently it only starts animating when I get within a couple of tiles of it.
[11:33:23] <wjp> 'big red house'? You mean the palace?
[11:33:25] <Darke> Nor does it stop animating when I move away from it, or even out of the fast area.
[11:33:31] <Darke> That sounds like the place. *grin*
[11:33:37] <wjp> Darke: sounds like the teleported pad
[11:33:41] <wjp> that's what should happen
[11:34:00] <Darke> Cool.
[11:34:01] <wjp> when you get close to one of them, it should rise up a bit, and start glowing
[11:34:10] <wjp> that means you activated it
[11:34:17] <Darke> Ahh.
[11:34:22] <wjp> when you get the right magic item, you can teleport to all of the pads you have activated
[11:34:58] <Darke> Interesting, there's a poisoned 'flask' on a table nearby, that apparently poisons you. *grin*
[11:35:07] <Darke> Neat.
[11:35:59] * Darke thinks we need to stretch the world a little verticaly. Everything looks a little squashed. *grin*
[11:37:33] <Cashman> ok I see the execution scene etc. but the guard/peasent's scene's dont work - I get ur point wjp
[11:37:50] <Cashman> one of the peasents appears next to the egg but the other ain't there
[11:38:35] <Cashman> umm what about hatched eggs outside the town - are they surpose to appear as there first frame or are some ment to animate?
[11:39:54] <wjp> monsters you mean?
[11:40:09] <Cashman> oh I like the camera! its great - like the origional
[11:40:13] <wjp> they're obviously supposed to animate (i.e., attack you ;-) )
[11:40:17] <Cashman> yeah the monster eggs
[11:40:32] <wjp> but that isn't implemented yet
[11:40:43] <wjp> monster AI might take some time
[11:40:54] <Cashman> ok
[11:47:47] <wjp> committed item location stuff
[11:49:33] * Darke updates, compiles, gets compile error... hmm...
[11:49:53] <wjp> did I forget to commit anything?
[11:50:16] <Darke> Dunno. It's giving me an error in ItemRelativeGump. Give me a few moments.
[11:50:19] <wjp> um, oops
[11:50:33] * Darke earperks?
[11:51:21] <wjp> try it now :-)
[11:52:57] <Darke> Surprisingly enough, it works now. *grin*
[11:53:27] * Darke will quickly check it, once compiling finishes, then curl up in a ball and fall asleep. *yawn* Tired bunny.
[11:57:46] <Cashman> oh I see the eggs hatch if you move around a fair amount - is this to do with the resolution that the avatar is moving at in statis?
[11:59:07] <Darke> Ok, things seem to be working. Pity you can't actually move stuff around in the barrel's, etc though. *grin*
[11:59:30] <Darke> Nap time. Night!
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[11:59:45] <wjp> night
[11:59:55] <wjp> item dragging... I might work on that a bit today :-)
[12:03:21] <Cashman> hey ur lucky that not many people know about pentagram or you would be bugged heaps about TGUDS
[12:03:43] <Cashman> anyways its looking good so far
[12:04:19] <Cashman> I had somthing wrong with one of my files - it was corrupt so I had to get it back from the u8 cd as things like lamps and fires were bobbing up and down heh
[12:07:26] <wjp> weird
[12:12:02] <Cashman> yeah I dont know aye! but I used the win patch for u8 to decompress the shapes file and replace the rest at the sametime so I dont know which was screwed up for sure
[12:12:30] <Cashman> oh well its fixed and no need to go on about it
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[12:59:28] <Colourless> hi
[12:59:28] <wjp> hi
[13:00:20] <wjp> (hopefully) small request: could you add lerping to ContainerGump::getLocationOfItem ?
[13:00:57] <Colourless> yeah
[13:01:26] <wjp> does it even need lerping? (since it returns coords relative to self)
[13:01:55] <Colourless> i'll check, but for inside containers, probably not
[13:02:36] <Colourless> actually it might not even work
[13:02:50] <Colourless> considering that gump x and y are stored in 'y'
[13:03:06] <Colourless> and getting gump coords doesn't go through the lerping system
[13:03:32] <wjp> items in gumps don't move gradually anyway, so in-gump-coords shouldn't be lerped
[13:05:35] <Colourless> static const int itemx_offset = 20;
[13:05:36] <Colourless> static const int itemy_offset = 18;
[13:05:36] <Colourless> ??
[13:06:25] <wjp> um, yes :-)
[13:06:33] <wjp> there's a comment there that points at the explaining comment
[13:06:44] <Colourless> don't you know the 'oo' way of doing things would be to make those members of the ContainerClass, then you have BarrelContainerGump, BoxContainerGump, CrateContainerGump and so on, that properly set those to the desired values
[13:07:01] <Colourless> s/ContainerClass/ContainerGump class/
[13:07:03] <wjp> sure, but I don't know how these values are determined yet
[13:07:45] <wjp> it seems to be related to the dimensions of the shape
[13:08:05] <Colourless> well, considering there is still 1 unknown file in static... such info might be there
[13:08:07] <Colourless> GUMPAGE.DAT
[13:08:31] <wjp> hm, do we know anything about that at all?
[13:08:38] <Colourless> not afaik
[13:08:43] <wjp> it's 8 bytes per gump
[13:08:57] <wjp> (52 gumps objects, 416 bytes... coincidence? :-) )
[13:09:12] <Colourless> it's 4 uint16's per gump
[13:09:25] <Colourless> most of them are all zeros
[13:09:26] <wjp> a rectangle, it seems
[13:09:31] <Colourless> or about half
[13:09:43] <wjp> the ones for container gumps aren't
[13:09:43] <Colourless> some go negetive?!?
[13:10:02] <wjp> so it would seem :-)
[13:10:06] <Colourless> from c0 onwards
[13:11:21] <wjp> the barrel's entry is: 0x14, 0x12, 0x59, 0x48
[13:11:55] <Colourless> if that x, y, width, height, or xstart, ystart, xend, yend :-)
[13:11:59] <Colourless> s/if/is/
[13:12:06] <wjp> basket: 0x15, 0x0E, 0x56, 0x3B
[13:12:22] <wjp> looks like I miscalculated the offset for the basket :-)
[13:12:40] <Colourless> it very much looks like those are offsets :-)
[13:13:21] <Colourless> i'm guessing that it's x, y, w, h
[13:13:39] <Colourless> something is 04, 03, 5D, 1E
[13:13:55] <Colourless> which would be 'really' narrow if it wasn't xywh
[13:16:36] <Colourless> [10:35:54] <wjp> Colourless: can you always manipulate items in gumps, even if the container is rather far away?
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[13:21:26] <wjp> excess flood?
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[13:21:51] <Colourless> yes it appears so
[13:22:05] <Colourless> i... screwed up a command :-)
[13:23:02] <Colourless> it ended up flooding the irc server :-)
[13:23:24] <wjp> impressive :-)
[13:23:59] <Colourless> what did if flood the server with, you ask?
[13:24:03] <Colourless> 2000 Unknown command
[13:24:37] <Colourless> rumour: Baldurs Gate 3
[13:24:55] <wjp> really? that would be cool :-)
[13:25:28] <wjp> not using the infinity engine then, I guess? (I think they retired that?)
[13:25:52] <Colourless> possisbly NWN engine
[13:26:23] <wjp> hm, would that mean I need to upgrade my video card? :-)
[13:27:50] <Colourless> the only hint of it's existance is that EBGames is reporting that it's set to come out in February. While the date is unlikely to be correct, more often then not, when EBGames have listed a game that hasn't yet been announced, it's real
[13:28:10] <Colourless> a retail outlet doesn't post
[13:28:16] <Colourless> rumours as products :-)
[13:28:36] <wjp> usually not, no :-)
[13:28:46] <wjp> did you look up that gump-of-far-away-container thing?
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[13:29:00] <wjp> (since you copy-pasted the question)
[13:30:08] <Colourless> but some people are saying it's not going to happn
[13:30:41] <wjp> plot-wise the story was quite finished after ToB
[13:33:40] <Colourless> if what i'm reading is correct, there wont be a BG3. EBGames listing it was due to a publisher screwup
[13:34:19] <Colourless> the game was 'cancelled' because of lisencing problems (Interplay no longer have DnD FR lisence)
[13:36:42] <wjp> there was quite a hassle over the DnD license some time ago
[13:37:01] <Colourless> the game that was meant to be BG3 however, is supposed to be coming out in a different form using a lisence for the Exalted universe
[13:37:58] <Colourless> other persistent Interplay rumour is they are working on Fallout 3 too
[13:37:59] <Colourless> :-)
[13:38:17] <Colourless> loosing DnD though would have hurt real bad
[13:38:28] <Colourless> Interplay has severe money problems
[13:55:59] <Colourless> yes. you could manipulate items in containers that were far away, assuming the gump stayed open
[14:09:33] <Colourless> btw
[14:09:36] <Colourless> 10:37:36] <Darke> Just wait for a while. You know Dragons, think they've got centuries to answer questions. *grin*
[14:09:41] <Colourless> :-)
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[14:35:58] * DarkeZzz awakens for a few moments to stunnedblink. How on earth could Interplay manage to screw up badly enough to loose the D&D licence? Or was this politics by WoTC/Hasbro?
[14:38:47] <DarkeZzz> wjp: "Do not meddle in the ways of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup." *wizenod*
[14:42:07] <Colourless> i don't know exactly what happened, but there was about 5 different things that occurred. In the end Interplay simply lost the ability to produce a new PC Baldurs Gate game because they didn't pay an instalment to keep the rights till 2005
[14:42:52] <Colourless> they however did pay to keep Console rights till 2008
[14:44:17] <DarkeZzz> Most bizzare.
[14:50:09] * DarkeZzz returns to sleep, trying to work out the insanity that it Interplay. Night!
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[15:56:55] <wjp> Colourless: any idea what Item::touch() does?
[16:33:08] <wjp> bbl
[16:36:18] <Colourless> Item::touch() doesn't to much
[16:36:24] <Colourless> s/to/do/
[16:36:39] <Colourless> it tests status flag 0x800
[16:39:35] <Colourless> if true it does nothing, if false, it 'seems' it adds it to the display list
[16:39:44] <Colourless> as far as I can tell
[16:40:01] <Colourless> it really doesn't look like it does anything important
[17:30:25] <wjp> hm, ok
[17:30:48] <wjp> that's roughly what I would expect judging by its name
[17:31:11] <wjp> it sounds like our renderer doesn't need it
[17:31:26] <Colourless> no we don't
[17:31:52] <Colourless> their display list would have been setup for minimal updates
[17:32:14] <Colourless> for them regenerating the entire display list would have been reasonably expensive i would think
[17:32:36] <Colourless> for us, it's really quite cheap
[17:40:06] <wjp> heh... I was wondering where that "Warning: non-FFFF value passed to container search" was coming from...
[17:40:23] <wjp> I'm checking if the wrong variable is 0xFFFF... :-)
[17:40:33] <Colourless> :-)
[17:41:58] <wjp> how were you planning (if you thought about it) to handle pausing?
[17:42:11] <wjp> skip running processes in run()?
[17:42:14] <Colourless> stop the kernel :-)
[17:42:26] <wjp> would gumps still be run?
[17:43:04] <Colourless> no idea
[17:43:40] <Colourless> the original game had some 'modal' gumps
[17:43:44] <wjp> currently Run() doesn't really do anything, rihgt?
[17:43:50] <wjp> s/rihgt/right/
[17:43:58] <Colourless> which would stop eveything
[17:44:38] <wjp> oh, wait, BarkGump decrements its counter in Run()
[17:44:51] <Colourless> yeah
[17:45:59] <wjp> easy to change should we want Run() to be called even when paused
[17:46:27] <wjp> unless we want the counter to keep ticking even if paused
[17:46:45] <Colourless> for strict pausing (such as pause key or loss of focus) i would think stop everything and fade the screen with a 'Paused' message displayed on screen
[17:47:03] <Colourless> it just simplifies things :-)
[17:47:09] * wjp nods
[17:47:43] <wjp> pausing when inventory gumps are open is going to be very hard
[17:47:57] <wjp> so we probably shouldn't attempt that
[17:48:27] <wjp> (or rather, pausing is easy, but you can't look/use items then)
[17:49:03] <Colourless> thing is, eventually the click handlers for the world will be put in GameMapGump
[17:49:15] <Colourless> so that would cause issues too
[17:49:15] <wjp> yes
[17:49:31] <wjp> especially with the delayed-click stuff
[17:57:03] <wjp> what did left/right single/double clicking on open gumps do?
[17:57:23] <Colourless> double left closed
[17:57:35] <Colourless> left drag obvious
[17:57:39] <Colourless> single left... not sure
[17:57:56] <Colourless> right passed through to the 'world' and moved the avatar
[17:58:23] <wjp> any idea if double-left closed by using the item, or just by closing the gump directly? :-)
[17:58:39] <Colourless> no idea
[18:01:52] <wjp> hm, any containers which have non-trivial close code?
[18:01:59] <wjp> does a chest really close when you close the gump?
[18:04:03] <Colourless> i think it did
[18:04:14] <wjp> yes, I seem to vaguely remember it did too
[18:04:25] <wjp> so that would mean double-left clicking on a gump simply used the container
[18:04:54] <wjp> hmm... wasn't there some key to close all open gumps? backspace or escape or something?
[18:05:05] <Colourless> backspace
[18:05:13] <wjp> I wonder how that worked exactly :-)
[18:06:26] <wjp> *sigh*... so many details :-)
[18:06:31] <Colourless> backspace closed the chest too
[18:07:27] <wjp> interesting
[18:07:37] <wjp> so usecode should probably be run whenever a container gump is closed
[18:07:41] <Colourless> it must have called use
[18:08:12] <wjp> which makes the assumption that a container's use() always closes the gump
[18:09:59] <wjp> so Close() calls use(), and use() calls Close()... hmm... :-)
[18:31:22] <Colourless> time for me to go
[18:31:23] <Colourless> cya
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[21:50:43] <wjp> ok, basic mouse input seems to be working
[21:50:51] <wjp> clicking/double-clicking, that is
[21:50:57] <wjp> now let's do dragging...
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[22:14:19] <wjp> hi
[22:14:51] <servus> hi to me? *checks logs*, yep! hello
[22:15:05] <wjp> nobody else here :-)
[22:15:24] * DarkeZzz is *definately* not here!
[22:15:29] <wjp> see :-)
[22:15:36] * exultbot isn't here either
[22:16:23] * servus shivers;
[22:17:03] <servus> I'm so tired lately! And I want to continue working on UWAdv's physics system... I think it's all in working order, I just have to connect it to things now :-)
[22:17:34] <servus> i added a "bounciness" attribute to objects, hmms at "a resilient sphere"... :-)
[22:18:27] * DarkeZzz approaches servus with a cattleprod. He knows an easy way ensure someone's appropriately awake!
[22:19:02] <servus> Bah going into shock (no pun, really!) is a great way to fall asleep!
[22:19:25] <wjp> did I ever mention I hate implementing drag-n-drop? :-)
[22:19:44] <wjp> or drag-n-throw if you move items too far away, or...
[22:19:44] <servus> does the mouse have its own thread?
[22:19:55] <DarkeZzz> wjp: No. But I'm sure you'll mention it lots. Again, and again, and again, and again, and AGAIN!
[22:19:55] <wjp> no
[22:19:58] <servus> (is this uwadv or u8?)
[22:20:10] <wjp> u8
[22:20:25] <wjp> this _is_ #pentagram after all ;-)
[22:20:29] <servus> ok, well, whats wrong with giving the mouse its own thread? that'd simplify matters perfectly, methinks:-/
[22:20:52] <wjp> it's more of a matter of lots of special cases
[22:21:03] <wjp> dropping into gumps, dropping into the world, dropping into equip slots
[22:21:06] <servus> special cases means you missed the easier, more efficient way to do something :)
[22:21:14] <wjp> throwing into the world, combining with other items, ...
[22:21:39] <DarkeZzz> s/you/you or the original u8 programmers/ Remember, we have to do most of the stuff 'their' way. *grin*
[22:21:40] <servus> so... the mouse thread has a polymorphic interface that will be called on whatever it "drags to"?
[22:22:23] <servus> kind of like the windows messaging system! heavens to betsy, but that's how id do it, and i'm half as dumb as a bag of cement!:)
[22:24:01] <DarkeZzz> How would that help? You'd still have to special case everywhere still.
[22:24:38] <wjp> I'll most likely add a DropItem method to a Gump() for clarity, but it won't cut back on special cases, I'm afraid :-)
[22:24:48] <wjp> s/Gump()/Gump/
[22:24:55] <wjp> classes don't need parentheses :-)
[22:25:24] <servus> it's the method i'd use to maintain a constant flow of action even while the mouse is being used... i guess neither of you like windows enough to have done the "early" win api programming where you got to see the guts of the clicking-and-dragging code :)
[22:26:06] <wjp> that doesn't sound like something I'd want to see :-)
[22:28:21] <servus> the mouse thread and the objects that could be dragged-onto each had one single method to handle the dragging! it was actually not too bad at all... this was due to the fact that pretty much everything in windows is derived from the "master" Unknown virtual class, which allowed everything to be polymorphic and play together more-or-less nicely... but I digress; i simply think that giving the mouse its own process and usi
[22:28:29] <servus> (am i blabbering? :)
[22:28:44] <wjp> the last bit of your last message fell off
[22:28:51] <DarkeZzz> I've done it. That's why I stopped programming trying to program gui's in C/C++ for a while and went back to plain DJGPP and console. Still haven't got the hang of the "programming guis don't have to be a nightmare of trying to interact with an inconsistantly insane interface".
[22:28:52] <servus> but I digress; i simply think that giving the mouse its own process and using as few interfaces as possible is the way to go... *shrugs*
[22:31:05] <DarkeZzz> This *was* way back in the mists of time around win95 or so, but my expectations are the fact that the api has only 'evolved' more, and not actually solved it's intrinsic problems. *shrug*
[22:32:34] <servus> well once you actually suffer through it, windows method of drag-n-drop isnt too bad of a model to work from:)
[22:33:22] <servus> is pentagram singlethreaded? are you single-thread-only programmers? (like i like to be :)
[22:33:50] <wjp> long story... :-)
[22:33:56] <wjp> pentagram itself is single-threaded
[22:34:02] <wjp> (modulo SDL's internal threads)
[22:34:18] <wjp> but pentagram is a VM for a multi-threaded language
[22:36:35] <servus> u8 is multithreaded? i wouldnt doubt it
[22:36:52] <servus> UO has several threads (and one for the mouse:)
[22:52:04] * wjp blinks
[22:52:07] <wjp> this is weird
[22:52:20] <wjp> when dragging a container gump it alternates between two places
[22:52:37] <wjp> (one right under the cursor, the other far to the bottom-right)
[23:06:23] <wjp> ok, figured that one out :-)
[23:06:43] <wjp> those parent/gump/screenspace coordinates take some getting used to :-)
[23:08:27] * servus bounces against the walls of the Stygian Abyss... with a bounce coefficient of 50 :) Okay, sleepy time :)
[23:08:40] <wjp> night
[23:08:56] <servus> (4:00pm, but thanks anyways:)
[23:09:08] <wjp> oh, right, you're in the US :-)
[23:09:12] <wjp> (1:10am here :-) )
[23:09:48] <servus> yepyep, that's when all the fun happens! free love and outdoor urinals, what more could you want out of a country?
[23:10:10] <wjp> oh, dunno... it not being ruled by companies? :-)
[23:10:29] <wjp> but let's not get into politics :-)
[23:10:32] <servus> that's a symptom of planet earth, resistance is futile
[23:11:51] * wjp sighs
[23:12:01] * wjp gives a last good kick against gumps
[23:12:06] <wjp> time for me to go :-)
[23:12:31] <servus> Homer Simpson: Whew, all this computer hacking made me tired, time for a nap! And where's my Tab? ('night)
[23:12:39] <wjp> I'll commit all this... later...
[23:12:40] <wjp> night
[23:12:46] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz...")