#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 9 Jun 2004 (GMT)

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Pentagram homepage


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[07:02:11] <watt> Just thought of a concept we may need. BatchProcess - process that sequentially runs a list of other processes.. I think we may desire several animations at some point to be run back to back (like running into a wall and then falling over)... this couold be the simplest way to solve it.
[07:02:25] <watt> s/couold/could/
[07:04:12] <watt> or hell... run - hit wall - fall over - stand up - shake head. hmmmm... just a thought.
[07:35:44] <wjp> hm, just have each process wait for the previous one
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[08:47:21] <wjp> or in this specific case we could have AvatarMoverProcess take care of it
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[11:32:31] <Dominus> Hi, just got an answer from one of the Crusader-PSX developers (I wrote last night because I wondered if the PSX was newly developed)
[11:33:07] <Dominus> "It was a complete re-write, we just used the PC version as a blueprint. We
[11:33:07] <Dominus> used the PC levels as a base, but we removed a considerable amount of the
[11:33:07] <Dominus> inefficiencies"
[11:55:03] <Dominus> got to go again
[11:55:18] <Dominus> see you maybe later tonight
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[16:53:31] <Dark-Star> hiya :)
[16:54:24] <Dark-Star> a lot of activity in CVS recently...
[17:13:21] <wjp> really? I hadn't noticed ;-)
[17:13:56] <Dark-Star> well, my last update was from 2 months ago, so "recently" means "in the last 2 months" for me :)
[17:14:17] <wjp> oh, in that case, yes, a lot happened :-)
[17:14:42] <wjp> 275 commit mails in the last 2 months
[17:14:58] <wjp> compared to 56 in the two months before that
[17:15:29] <Dark-Star> yup. new developer, new config file format, new/moved files... time to update my MSVC project again
[17:16:29] <Dark-Star> seems like you've all finally got some spare time to waste on pentagram ;-)
[19:33:32] <watt> hmmm... perhaps we should move forward a bit more on the website thing... what do we still need?
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[19:44:30] <Dominus> hi
[19:44:47] <Dominus> watt: about the homepage
[19:45:31] <Dominus> colourless had some misgivings about the mapped navigation picture
[19:45:47] <Dominus> that's all stopping us from putting one online/in CVS
[19:53:45] <watt> okie....hmmm... how to solve that... think the using is as the bg for it's div with the link images separate would work well?
[19:54:12] <Dominus> yeah, he said link images would be fine
[19:55:07] <sbx> Crusader PSX!
[19:55:22] * sbx cheers.
[19:55:35] <watt> hmm.. but then they'd have to be gifs for proper IE transparency, right?
[19:55:40] <Dominus> For my part I'm not completely happy with the sidebar at all, as I would prefer same logo for app and webpage, but as we don't have a logo that is kind of nonsense
[19:56:26] <Dominus> IE is just too sucky...
[19:57:42] <Dominus> probably yes, only gif would work correctly
[19:58:56] <Dominus> watt: ignore my comment about the logo, for now I'd rather see a much better webpage than the one we had
[19:59:03] <Dominus> have, actually :-)
[19:59:52] <watt> yes, I thought using the logo would be nice (the test one on Colourless' page), but it's all black, and I really don't think a black webpage would look all that great.
[20:00:06] <Dominus> I agree on that
[20:00:54] <watt> besides, I'm getting better at gimp, which was 90% of the reason I wanted to do the mockup
[20:01:01] <Dominus> maybe black with red lettering to make it look really like a satanism website
[20:01:11] <Dominus> :-)
[20:02:18] <watt> yeah... pointing friends a collegues to a site with pentagrams all in black and red with fire might not work too well ;-)
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[20:02:27] <watt> s/a/and/
[20:03:34] <Dominus> OTOH the sidebar distinguishes the pentagram website from the exult one :-)
[20:03:50] <watt> bingo.
[20:04:56] <watt> helps enforce the viewpoint expressed in 1.1 of the FAQ
[20:05:35] <Dominus> and we can alwasy do it different when we feel like it
[20:07:21] <Dominus> so, yeah, apart from Colourless' veto on the mapped sidebar I'm all for putting the new layout online
[20:15:43] <Dominus> sbx: yup, crusader for psx is quite fun
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[20:26:24] <sbx> Dominus: did you play it on a real PSX yet?
[20:26:51] <Dominus> no, don't have one, but I have a real PSX-Controller hooked up
[20:36:07] <wjp> hi Dominus, watt, sbx
[20:36:27] <wjp> uh, IE needs gif? what's wrong with png?
[20:36:39] <Dominus> it has a problem with transparency
[20:37:02] <wjp> and not with gif transparency?
[20:37:11] <Dominus> don't think so
[20:37:16] <wjp> that's pretty stupid
[20:37:32] <wjp> I'm tempted to just ignore that problem
[20:37:51] <Dominus> but I just thought as long as we intend to have it white anyway, just make it white on white and no problem with trans...
[20:38:01] <Dominus> it is :-)
[20:39:01] <Dominus> problem with ignoring and using transparency with the logo (trans becomes black) and transparency with the link-pics it will become hard to read :-)
[20:54:46] <wjp> does transparency become black or does it simply ignore the alpha layer?
[20:57:03] <Dominus> don't know, sorry
[20:58:08] <watt> it goes black... or some other color for some png's.... several sites describe the problem an tell you how to use javascript to solve it, but those solutions are kinda not worth it.
[20:59:15] <wjp> how on earth can this not be fixed yet?
[20:59:31] <watt> IE is a toy.
[20:59:36] <watt> There
[20:59:48] <wjp> yes, but most toys actually work :-)
[20:59:55] <Dominus> oh, well, you know, they are busy with fixing all their security holes
[20:59:58] <watt> There's a lot of problems with IE they have'nt fixed
[21:00:00] <Dominus> NOT
[21:00:37] <watt> Most problems they don't fix deal with technology theyu don
[21:00:53] <watt> don't embrace, merely try to comply with
[21:01:32] <wjp> as far as I'm concerned, I'd say just use png with transparency
[21:01:36] <watt> ssh sessions don't work right on some versions cause disconnects...... that took a long time to find out
[21:02:35] <watt> I read through the sources of jetty and tomcat for a long time before I realized it was IE's fault
[21:03:02] <wjp> you mean ssl?
[21:04:42] * watt nods.
[21:06:29] <watt> set me back a week on a contract... then it came down to enabling a hack jetty recently added to make IE 5.5 work to also work with IE 6+
[21:07:04] <watt> one line of code for a week of development... sad.
[21:09:11] <watt> anyway.. thinking I'm gonna go with the blank bar as the bg and the links as transparent gifs. That should work
[21:09:45] <wjp> you'll just lose full alpha transparency
[21:13:24] <watt> ?
[21:13:50] <wjp> gifs only have colour-key transparency, right?
[21:15:01] <watt> I believe they set aside one colour to act as transparent
[21:15:15] <watt> so, yes?
[21:15:39] <wjp> pngs have a full alpha channel
[21:16:05] <wjp> so you can't do properly anti-aliased text on a transparent background with gif
[21:17:40] <watt> right, but they actually won't need it hopefully... it wasn't highly anti-aliased text to begin with.. the center was, but the black border to the text wasn't
[21:17:58] <watt> and the center should look the same.
[21:19:18] <wjp> hm, the black border does seem to have a very light transparent border around it (alpha 20 out of 255)
[21:19:37] <wjp> but that probably isn't really visible
[21:20:07] <watt> if it doesn't work, then I'
[21:20:24] <watt> I'll just split the navbar image
[21:24:06] <wjp> the good part about having separate images is that we can easily leave out the missing sections for now :-)
[21:24:13] <watt> yup
[21:24:16] <wjp> like, most of them ;-)
[21:24:34] <watt> hehe
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[21:58:24] <watt> oooh... got a cool looking bonus result of the sf and w3c link images being place in the navbar
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[22:14:26] <wjp> looks pretty good
[22:15:20] <wjp> the spacing between the images looks a bit irregular, though; but that's just a detail
[22:15:56] * wjp has to go; g'night
[22:18:09] <watt> night...
[22:19:05] <watt> IE also doesn't want to deal with a part of the css right.... a bit more work I guess... use a table instead probably.
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[22:38:51] <watt> Opera really treats the side bar nicely while loading
[22:41:25] <watt> although it only takes forever to send it over to my other machines... something's gotta be wrong with my network
[22:44:14] <watt> heh... could look a little better in links2 -g