#tfl@irc.freenode.net logs for 10 Oct 2006 (GMT)

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[00:00:02] <wizardrydragon> Good news or bad news?
[00:00:03] <Marzo> It is not serious, but it will take a while to heal
[00:00:14] <Marzo> Good news, mostly
[00:00:34] <wizardrydragon> That's good.
[00:00:53] <Marzo> I will basically have to change the table I use and take some special care with the arm for a while, but that should do it
[00:01:07] <wizardrydragon> My leg on the other hand needed that poking it with pointed instruments thing that they call "surgery"
[00:01:30] <wizardrydragon> I suppose the positive is that I've been more or less limited to this room so I've had plenty of time to fiddle with things for TFL :D
[00:01:35] <Marzo> lol
[00:02:23] <wizardrydragon> I knew it wasn't going to be fun when he told me that he was putting me on morpheine afterwards; that's never a good sign :P
[00:02:36] <Marzo> :-)
[00:02:53] <wizardrydragon> Especially since doctors here aren't fond of using sledgehammers to break eggshells, to abuse a metaphor
[00:03:09] <Marzo> lol
[00:04:15] <Marzo> So, how badly are abusing UCC classes?
[00:04:44] <wizardrydragon> Oh not too badly
[00:04:58] <wizardrydragon> Ive mostly been fumbling therough Exult code lately, so you could say that Im doing worse
[00:05:39] <Marzo> 'fumbling through Exult code' -- hmm. That is an apt description of what almost anyone in the team does :-)
[00:05:47] <wizardrydragon> Lol.
[00:05:58] <wizardrydragon> Specifially I am trying to de-hardcode the music code.
[00:06:29] <Marzo> Depending on what you mean by that, I wish you good luck
[00:07:02] <Marzo> I assume you mean allowing adding custom music files, though, which should be a lot easier
[00:07:36] <wizardrydragon> I want to be able to change the contextual music depending upon map.
[00:07:59] <wizardrydragon> Which is to say, I want the combat music to be different when you're in TFL, than when you are in Britannia, for example.
[00:08:00] <Marzo> What do you mean by 'contextual music'?
[00:08:04] <Marzo> Oh
[00:08:48] <wizardrydragon> So far it's turning out to be harder than i expected, and I expected it to be impossible :)
[00:08:57] <Marzo> An interesting idea
[00:09:05] <Marzo> Not impossible
[00:09:15] <Marzo> But it will definitelly be hard
[00:10:05] <wizardrydragon> So I've found :D
[00:10:16] <Marzo> These are several bits of information that should be specifiable by map (such as whether the map is 'indoors' or 'outdoors')
[00:10:23] <wizardrydragon> Indeed
[00:10:35] <Marzo> Maybe the combat music should be one of these
[00:10:44] <wizardrydragon> Especially an indor flag, so we don't have to have extraneous roofs over dungeon maps
[00:10:51] <wizardrydragon> *indoor/outdoor
[00:11:05] <Marzo> (also, maybe -- and just maybe -- have the ability of different time 'zones' for different maps)
[00:11:18] <wizardrydragon> That ones not as neccesary, IMHO.
[00:11:33] <Marzo> Which is the reason for the 'maybe's
[00:11:39] <wizardrydragon> Hehe
[00:12:03] <wizardrydragon> Hmm
[00:12:16] <Marzo> What?
[00:12:25] <wizardrydragon> It would be useful to have maps have different night/day cycles, or only be day, or only be night
[00:12:33] <wizardrydragon> That would also solve the dungeon maps problem
[00:12:51] <Marzo> Or only be twilight, for that matter
[00:12:57] <wizardrydragon> Indeed
[00:13:28] <Marzo> Hm. That could be done with a data file for each map (or maybe a master data file for all maps)
[00:13:38] <wizardrydragon> Indeed
[00:13:43] <Marzo> Or even better, a *text* data file
[00:14:02] <wizardrydragon> I thought about doing it myself but I didn't want to mangle that part of the Exult code since I dont have a clue about how it works.
[00:14:17] <Marzo> Would make way for an eventual Pagan remake in the U7 engine
[00:14:39] <Marzo> I will have to look into it too, but I don't think it would be hard.
[00:15:15] <Marzo> But I think it is basically a time-based palette change
[00:15:45] <wizardrydragon> I believe so too.
[00:15:52] <Marzo> The data file could be just that -- a table specifying the palette to use as a function of the game hour
[00:16:06] <wizardrydragon> I just didnt get much of a handle on it reading the Exult code so I decided it was best to abstain from mucking with it.
[00:16:12] <Marzo> We could even make SI's nights slightly longer
[00:16:25] <Marzo> Sure, I'll add it to my to-do list
[00:16:26] <Marzo> :-)
[00:16:44] <wizardrydragon> Hahaha
[00:16:49] <wizardrydragon> Itll never get done, that way :P
[00:17:49] <Marzo> I don't know; about half the list consists of items that have been done
[00:18:28] <wizardrydragon> Okay, so it just might be a few decades off then ;)
[00:18:30] <Marzo> Sure, the really hard things are still to be done, but I am trying to look at it in a 'glass half-full' kind of way
[00:18:39] <Marzo> :-)
[00:20:08] <Marzo> One thing I was thinking about doing which would require the assistance of fellow modders -- make a symbol table for all of usecode functions in BG and SI
[00:20:31] <wizardrydragon> Oh good god, good luck with that.
[00:20:44] <wizardrydragon> I've been trying to do that since Exult was a "X-Windows Map Viewer"
[00:20:45] <Marzo> Done adding some extra information so that shape functions and NPC functions can be totally be de-coupled
[00:21:06] <Marzo> Er, de-coupled from shape # and NPC #
[00:21:33] <wizardrydragon> I was going to say, that sentence is missing some words before you can add a period, I think :)
[00:21:53] <Marzo> That way, new games would not have to have their usecode laid-out in the same way
[00:22:05] <wizardrydragon> Indeed
[00:22:34] <wizardrydragon> Speaking of new games, we need to make Exult recognize the intro shapes from the game directory, so that they can have custom logos
[00:22:46] <Marzo> Possibly
[00:22:47] <wizardrydragon> Currently this is hardcoded but I'm not sure what to change to dehardcode it
[00:23:15] <wizardrydragon> This would also be of use for having a custom logo for TFl and other mods; it is absolutely neccesary for new games, however.
[00:23:24] <Marzo> Also, custom keybindings specifiable per-mod (maybe using difference patches) would be nice
[00:23:34] <wizardrydragon> Indeed
[00:23:45] <wizardrydragon> For the keyring mod, for example
[00:24:02] <Marzo> And also, custom logos would help in telling whether or not the mod is working
[00:24:21] <wizardrydragon> And for spellcasting items in TFL, possibly (I am planning on having shortcut keys to party members spellcasting functions)
[00:24:25] <Marzo> See a recent post in the Phorum for that
[00:24:36] <wizardrydragon> The phorum isn't working for me as of lately
[00:24:41] <Marzo> Re: spellcasting items: So am I for the Keyring mod
[00:24:49] <wizardrydragon> :)
[00:24:58] <Marzo> It wasn't working yesterday for me either, but it seems to be back today
[00:25:34] <Marzo> Although if you are monomaniacal, you could read and post in it even yesterday
[00:25:55] <wizardrydragon> It wouldnt even work when I put good old lynx on a refresh loop :)
[00:26:09] <wizardrydragon> So no, it didnt work even for us monomaniacal ones :)
[00:26:19] <Marzo> It worked when I entered in a manual refresh loop :-)
[00:26:47] <Marzo> I know, I posted two messages and deleted two spam messages yesterday :-)
[00:27:07] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[00:27:15] <wizardrydragon> You and your mysterious mod powers
[00:27:23] * Marzo knows he is insane. What is the point of being insane and not knowing it? :-)
[00:27:34] <wizardrydragon> Question
[00:27:38] <Marzo> Shoot
[00:28:05] <wizardrydragon> Which topic is this intro bit on? :P
[00:28:40] <Marzo> It is -- very indirectly -- in the 'How to get/install SIFixes' topic
[00:28:57] <Marzo> The poster asks for a way to know if the Keyring mod was working
[00:29:12] <Marzo> The custom logo in title screen would accomplish that
[00:29:19] <wizardrydragon> Indeed
[00:29:36] <wizardrydragon> It'd tell you Exults looking at the right directory anyways
[00:29:49] <Marzo> Preciselly
[00:29:51] <wizardrydragon> Since I'm programming TFL theres no gaurantee it'll work at any given point in time
[00:29:54] <wizardrydragon> :)
[00:29:57] <Marzo> lol
[00:30:13] <Marzo> In any case, it is in my to-do list
[00:30:29] <Marzo> For mods at least, it would be easier
[00:30:37] <wizardrydragon> :)
[00:31:06] <Marzo> For new games -- which would likely require some sort of scripting ability for an intro -- it would be much harder
[00:31:20] <wizardrydragon> Screw intros for now, that's a whole other can of worms
[00:31:29] <wizardrydragon> :P
[00:32:01] * Marzo has recently found out that the shape browser is far more powerful that he though previously
[00:32:20] <wizardrydragon> By the way
[00:32:53] <wizardrydragon> When you make it so you can have custom intro graphics, it'd be a good idea to make their shapes in ExultStudio
[00:33:12] <Marzo> ?
[00:33:30] <wizardrydragon> The aforementioned title screen graphics
[00:33:44] <wizardrydragon> Currently you cannot edit or even view them via ExultStudio
[00:33:53] <Marzo> I was thinking that they would simply be appropriatelly-named shape files
[00:34:09] <Marzo> Hence my comment about the shape browser :-)
[00:34:38] <wizardrydragon> There is a file for intro graphics.
[00:34:52] <Marzo> I know
[00:34:57] <Marzo> It is a flex file
[00:35:01] <wizardrydragon> It contains the menu title, the screens from the intro, and a few odds and ends.
[00:35:10] <Marzo> And I don't know if it has things other than shape files
[00:35:21] <Marzo> If it does, it could be a problem
[00:35:34] <Marzo> If it does not, it isn't much different from a vga file
[00:36:23] <wizardrydragon> It's a vga file pretty much.
[00:36:39] <wizardrydragon> You can run it through expack quick to see if I'm wrong though :)
[00:36:56] <Marzo> vga files and flex files are identical in file structure
[00:37:19] <Marzo> Except that flex files can contain things other than shape files
[00:37:36] <wizardrydragon> Indeed.
[00:38:01] <wizardrydragon> I think it's best to leave it as a flex to maintain open-endedness for the future.
[00:38:20] <Marzo> And apparently, the shape with the intro graphics has music files in it
[00:38:30] <wizardrydragon> The dialogue maybe?
[00:38:53] <Marzo> No, I think it is the butterfly theme and the menu song
[00:38:57] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[00:39:01] <wizardrydragon> Hmm
[00:39:12] <Marzo> It is referred to thrice in audio/Midi.cc
[00:39:51] <wizardrydragon> If that's the case, title menu music at the least will be changed easily if the music system doesn't disregard mod changes to that flex
[00:40:30] <Marzo> I think it does when using digital music
[00:40:41] <wizardrydragon> Bleh.
[00:40:44] <Marzo> Er. Does ignore
[00:40:51] <Marzo> But you got it anyway
[00:41:04] <wizardrydragon> I'll change it to simply use external files and a list as I've been trying to do.
[00:41:11] <wizardrydragon> Emphasis on trying.
[00:41:26] <Marzo> Not that you can make patches to the file anyway...
[00:42:39] <wizardrydragon> You could have a patch file, but not a partial one, at least not as it is now, but that's assuming Exult references it, which it doesnt.
[00:43:00] <Marzo> My point, more or less
[00:43:39] <wizardrydragon> Hmm, what a lovely run-on sentence.
[00:43:41] <wizardrydragon> :D
[00:43:48] <Marzo> :-)
[00:46:58] <wizardrydragon> Yay, only 6 more hours before I have all of the Lazarus torrent so I can seed it for Tibby :P
[00:47:10] <Marzo> lol
[00:47:23] <wizardrydragon> Before I only had one peer and the estimated download time was something like 143d
[00:47:37] <Marzo> When I downloaded the first version, I left it seeding until it reached 300%
[00:47:44] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[00:48:23] <Marzo> I skipped the second version, and the last version released didn't have anyone seeding so I couldn't get it in torrent
[00:48:38] <Marzo> Do I downloaded it from one of the mirrors
[00:48:59] <wizardrydragon> Oh I have a download page for the final version on my server.
[00:49:10] <Marzo> You do?
[00:49:11] <wizardrydragon> I'm just trying to lend a hand a little more by seeding the torrent as well.
[00:49:26] <wizardrydragon> http://lfs.lfhost.com/lazarus/
[00:49:50] <Marzo> It seems that items 25-29 in BG mainshp.flx are not shapes
[00:50:09] <wizardrydragon> Hmm.
[00:54:54] <Marzo> Hm. That could be a problem
[00:55:33] <Marzo> I found no less than 3 graphics (2 in endshape.flx and 1 in mainshp.flx) which might be the one used in the title screen
[00:55:35] <wizardrydragon> Depends. What do you intend to do?
[00:59:18] <Marzo> Problem solved, it is definitelly the one in mainshp.flx
[00:59:40] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[00:59:54] <wizardrydragon> Say, ever played Star Control 2?
[01:00:10] <Marzo> No
[01:00:21] <wizardrydragon> You have no idea what you're missing :P
[01:00:34] <Marzo> Why don't you enlighten me? :-)
[01:00:53] <Marzo> Hm
[01:00:56] <Marzo> "The download is split into multiple parts for you dialup users:"
[01:01:01] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[01:01:15] <wizardrydragon> You would be surprised how many hits that page has from DialUp ISPs
[01:01:24] <Marzo> At 51,200 kb per part, they will suffer greatly without download acc3elerators
[01:01:31] <wizardrydragon> True
[01:01:51] <Marzo> Delete the extraneous '3' in the previous sentence, please
[01:02:02] <wizardrydragon> But would you want to download the whole thing at once and get boned if you lost the connection :P
[01:02:27] <Marzo> If you use a download accelerator, it doesn't matter much
[01:02:38] <Marzo> (unless the server doesn't allow resuming)
[01:02:43] <wizardrydragon> Besides, other sites had them at 100-meg chunks which I thought was insane; I just used the distrubhution default for WinRAR which was 52
[01:03:18] <Marzo> Just a nit: why are there two links for part 3 and none for part 2? :-)
[01:03:39] <Marzo> (and yes, I am referring to the text of the link not to the actual link which is correct)
[01:03:55] <wizardrydragon> Im lazy.
[01:04:00] <Marzo> lol
[01:04:13] <wizardrydragon> That is the reason in it's entirety.
[01:04:56] <Marzo> Wow, graphics can get really psychadelic when you change the palette in the shape browser
[01:05:02] <wizardrydragon> XD
[01:05:08] <wizardrydragon> What, never tried that before?
[01:05:29] <Marzo> I mean the game graphics, *after* you leave the shape browser
[01:05:43] <Marzo> Exult keeps the palette you had selected
[01:06:00] <Marzo> Right now, I have oceans of milk and forests of blood in BG :-)
[01:06:25] <Marzo> (and no -- I only recently discovered that I could change palettes and files in the shape browser)
[01:07:25] <Marzo> Well, let me see how badly ES crashes if I allow it to load mainshp.flx
[01:07:31] <wizardrydragon> :D
[01:08:20] <Marzo> It... works?
[01:08:23] <Marzo> No crashes?
[01:08:32] <Marzo> WHY?
[01:08:38] <wizardrydragon> It seems rather indescisive on the matter.
[01:09:44] <wizardrydragon> Its probably crashing because of the nonshape objects Id wager
[01:09:59] <Marzo> Read my messages again
[01:10:06] <Marzo> [22:08] Marzo: No crashes?
[01:10:14] <Marzo> Pay attention to the 'No'
[01:10:35] <wizardrydragon> I took that to as in "It works? No - it crashes?"
[01:11:14] <Marzo> You took it wrong -- the whole surprise whas that it didn't crash at all
[01:11:18] <Marzo> *was
[01:11:19] <wizardrydragon> Hah
[01:11:41] <wizardrydragon> So wshat youre saying is you had my response every time I make a change to the usecode that works
[01:11:51] <Marzo> lol
[01:16:05] <wizardrydragon> :D
[01:16:06] <Marzo> In any case, I think I will have the mainshp.flx file viewable -- but not editable -- in ES
[01:16:19] <Marzo> Too many data which could be corrupted/lost otherwise
[01:16:51] <wizardrydragon> As to Star Control 2 - if you asked a 100 gamers to list their top favourite games, you would hear about SC2 a *lot*
[01:17:25] <wizardrydragon> The best part of the matter is that was released to the open source community under the GPL in 2002
[01:17:31] <Marzo> It is strange that none that I have ever asked that question to had it in their list :-)
[01:19:19] <wizardrydragon> Hah
[01:19:37] <wizardrydragon> Look up "The Ur-Quan Masters" on SF.net and you can play it for free
[01:19:41] <wizardrydragon> :)
[01:20:11] <wizardrydragon> And when you play it, look for the Spathi, they're hilarious :D
[01:20:22] <Marzo> Yeah, that is more or less what Wikipedia says
[01:20:27] <wizardrydragon> Or the Vot-Fot-Pik
[01:20:59] <Marzo> Zot-Fot-Pik, no?
[01:21:11] <wizardrydragon> Indeed.
[01:21:26] <wizardrydragon> But which one is the fot?
[01:21:32] <wizardrydragon> ;)
[01:21:56] <Marzo> According to Wikipedia, they are themselves unsure which is which :-)
[01:22:02] <Marzo> lol
[01:22:35] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[01:22:52] <wizardrydragon> Just dont become Zebranky food and it's all good.
[01:23:04] <wizardrydragon> By the way if you see anyone in neon green ships, run like hell.
[01:23:14] <Marzo> lol
[01:23:46] <wizardrydragon> Or at least utter the traditional Spathi prayer "Oh God, please don't let me die today! Tomorrow would be so much better!
[01:24:10] <Marzo> Graphics are definitelly nice
[01:24:16] <wizardrydragon> :)
[01:24:38] <wizardrydragon> The conversations are definetely my favourite part of the game, as Im sure you already surmised
[01:24:47] <Marzo> Indeed
[01:25:40] <wizardrydragon> Watch out for a surprise if you land on Pluto
[01:26:01] <Marzo> "We have an egalitarian society here. All are equal. Of course, that doesn't stop some people from being stupid fools or jerks."
[01:26:26] <Marzo> I think this will be my new sig
[01:26:57] <wizardrydragon> :D
[01:27:42] <Marzo> Maybe someday I'll play it, but I have too many other addictions right now :-)
[01:27:45] <wizardrydragon> I'm rather fond of the Kohr-Ah in the game. It's a shame they're hellbent on destroying the universe
[01:28:16] <Marzo> brb
[01:28:59] <wizardrydragon> Kay
[01:37:34] <Marzo> Back
[01:38:54] <wizardrydragon> Yay
[01:44:23] <wizardrydragon> Hmm now its 12 days. Ah, the fickleness of P2P networks :)
[01:44:35] <Marzo> :-)
[01:46:21] <wizardrydragon> Thats why I didnt bother with them until lately :P
[01:58:48] <Marzo> I am thinking: instead of patching the intro graphics, why not add support in the mod's cfg file for a string to draw beneath the standard logo?
[01:59:00] <wizardrydragon> New games
[01:59:13] <Marzo> And SI with SS
[01:59:19] <wizardrydragon> Next question? :P
[01:59:21] <Marzo> Logo is different from BG
[01:59:52] <Marzo> But new games are a whole different can of worms
[02:00:05] <wizardrydragon> No, just the intros :)
[02:00:18] <Marzo> Even their intros :-)
[02:00:41] <wizardrydragon> But seriously speaking, those kind of half-efforts are exactly what's causing you all this fuss about hardcoding :)
[02:00:54] <wizardrydragon> If we can do it right the first time, we should
[02:01:18] <Marzo> Even a full blown effort won't help new games in the least
[02:01:56] <Marzo> Currently, the drawing of the title logo is handled by a pure virtual function in all but BG and SI
[02:03:10] <wizardrydragon> the code you use to get the new title graphic from a changed mainshp.flx can be recycled for new games
[02:03:11] <Marzo> Hm. Scratch that, Dev games inherit from SI
[02:03:34] <Marzo> Which is mentioned as being a 'temporary kludge'
[02:04:30] <wizardrydragon> See what I mean about half-efforts? :D
[02:04:36] <Marzo> I was thinking of not patching mainshp.flx at all, and having instead separate files which could be overriden
[02:05:01] <Marzo> For example, a 'gametitle.shp' file for the game logos
[02:08:28] <wizardrydragon> Could work
[02:09:03] <Marzo> It is also one of the few shapes which anyone would want to override in mainshp.flx anyway
[02:09:17] <Marzo> (not to say the only)
[02:09:17] <wizardrydragon> lol
[02:09:51] <wizardrydragon> Avatar faces for the main menu being another
[02:13:54] <Marzo> OK, maybe the two standard avatar faces also
[02:15:03] <wizardrydragon> :)
[02:15:32] <Marzo> Most of the rest are menu shapes
[02:15:40] <Marzo> Two are fonts
[02:15:57] <Marzo> 4 are seemingly static
[02:16:03] <Marzo> Make that 5
[02:16:21] <Marzo> And one is the grahics from the credits
[02:19:22] <Marzo> Well, I am off to bed
[02:19:25] <Marzo> Good night
[02:19:28] <wizardrydragon> Have fun :D
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