#tfl@irc.freenode.net logs for 10 Sep 2006 (GMT)

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[00:23:33] * wizardrydragon is busy destroying Britannia with incompetent usecoding.
[01:17:37] <Marzo> Not too long in the future, you'll be able to destroy usecoding with classes :-)
[01:17:55] <Crysta> lol
[01:19:05] * Marzo just needs to figure out how he will do the Bison part do have working classes in UCC
[01:19:19] <Marzo> *to
[01:20:11] <wizardrydragon> lol
[01:22:20] <Marzo> I have also been thinking of adding 'struct's to UCC as an organization tool for some arrays
[01:22:30] <Marzo> For example, position arrays
[01:23:07] <Marzo> I'll be away for a while
[01:23:13] --- Marzo is now known as Marzo_away
[01:23:39] <wizardrydragon> Okasy
[01:38:25] --- Marzo_away is now known as Marzo
[01:38:30] <Marzo> Back
[01:38:41] <Crysta> wb
[01:38:53] <wizardrydragon> lol
[01:39:00] <Marzo> ?
[01:40:15] <wizardrydragon> if you hadnt said anything, i dont think anyhone wouldve noticed :P
[01:40:33] <Marzo> Very likely
[01:41:06] <Crysta> well i wasnt paying much attention
[01:41:09] <Crysta> lol
[01:42:39] * wizardrydragon shakes magic eight ball. "My sources say yes."
[01:44:07] <Crysta> >.>;
[01:47:53] <wizardrydragon> hehe
[02:22:59] <Crysta> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/crystaelf/magebaneheld.gif
[02:23:10] <Crysta> another random graphic fix
[02:23:13] <Marzo> Nice
[02:23:21] <Crysta> cause well
[02:23:23] <Crysta> currently
[02:23:40] <Crysta> it goes into the same straight sheath as every other no curved sword
[02:24:07] <Crysta> i kinda figured it wouldnt fix in a sheath so.. kinda.. a loop of.. some sort.. or something
[02:24:13] <Crysta> yeah.. my explanation fell apart there
[02:24:14] <Marzo> Maybe making a curved sheat for it?
[02:24:14] <Crysta> lol
[02:24:21] <Crysta> well the thing is
[02:24:28] <wizardrydragon> A curved sheath would work.
[02:24:32] <Crysta> since the base is thinner than the blade
[02:24:43] * wizardrydragon points at scimitar sheaths.
[02:24:57] <Crysta> yeah but do scimitars curve twice?
[02:25:23] <Crysta> bah
[02:25:25] <wizardrydragon> No but it doesnt matter.
[02:25:27] <Crysta> im confused XD
[02:25:30] <Crysta> yeah
[02:25:32] <Crysta> guess yer right
[02:25:35] <Crysta> its ultima
[02:25:42] <Crysta> better than the straight one
[02:25:43] <wizardrydragon> You just need to make sure the width of the sheath is constant.
[02:25:56] <Marzo> And besides, going by the (non-paperdol) graphic, it sure looks like a scimitar
[02:26:02] <Crysta> right
[02:26:08] <Marzo> *paperdoll
[02:26:16] <Crysta> well yeah but you notice near the handle it kinda curves back te other way barely
[02:26:24] * Marzo is messing too much with old 8.3 filenames...
[02:26:26] <Crysta> it could jsut be the angle tho o.o
[02:38:36] <wizardrydragon> it doesnt even look curved there to me o_O
[02:38:54] <Crysta> i guess im too sensitive to that kinda thing
[02:44:08] <Crysta> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/crystaelf/magebanesheath.gif how's this look
[02:45:53] <wizardrydragon> better
[02:46:02] <Marzo> Agreed
[02:46:12] <Crysta> right then.. guess we go with that
[02:46:13] <Crysta> lol
[02:47:01] <Crysta> unless either of you can touch it up some
[02:48:13] <wizardrydragon> Looks good to me
[02:51:45] <Crysta> :)
[02:59:20] <Crysta> sorry i keep doing random minor stuff tho
[02:59:34] <wizardrydragon> :P
[02:59:38] <wizardrydragon> Its alright
[03:00:02] <Crysta> i hate starting on major stuff cause its rare for me to actually finish once ive started
[03:00:19] <wizardrydragon> Marzo would probably like a certain gump done randomly though ;)
[03:00:32] <Marzo> :-)
[03:00:35] <Crysta> mariah again?
[03:00:47] <wizardrydragon> :-)
[03:01:12] <Marzo> Hey, I found out that exultbot does something other than keep logs and point to them
[03:01:24] <wizardrydragon> It also tells the time!
[03:01:28] <wizardrydragon> ?time
[03:01:28] <exultbot> It is now Sun Sep 10 03:01:28 2006 (GMT).
[03:01:32] <wizardrydragon> See?
[03:01:33] <wizardrydragon> :)
[03:01:37] <Marzo> And more: it greets you
[03:01:42] <Marzo> exultbot: hi
[03:01:42] <exultbot> Hi Marzo!
[03:01:46] <Crysta> so... what is the finalized look for mariah?
[03:01:46] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[03:02:26] <Marzo> The one I posted earlier with the completely blue dress
[03:02:38] <Marzo> Let me see if the image is still up
[03:02:46] <wizardrydragon> I dont think Crysta was there when you showed me that, Marzo.
[03:03:14] <Crysta> yeah.. dunno if i ever saw the truly final one
[03:04:13] <Marzo> I will upload the file again
[03:06:50] <Marzo> Here: http://www.geocities.com/mg_rpg_online/Mariah.png
[03:07:20] <Crysta> saved
[03:07:21] <Crysta> thank you
[03:07:23] <Crysta> :)
[03:07:41] <Marzo> If you need the up-facing frames, just ask
[03:08:26] <Crysta> i think that will be enough
[03:10:05] <wizardrydragon> Ill need them if Im gonna add the new sprite :)
[03:10:32] <Marzo> I can send you the individual png files if you prefer
[03:10:53] <wizardrydragon> It's not neccesary, but it would be convinent.
[03:10:54] <Marzo> Or I can make the shape and upload it myself, too
[03:11:08] <Marzo> You know, commit to cvs
[03:11:19] <wizardrydragon> That could also work.
[03:24:55] * wizardrydragon pokes Marzso
[03:24:59] <wizardrydragon> *Marzo
[03:26:15] <Marzo> Done
[03:26:26] <wizardrydragon> Woot
[03:28:08] <wizardrydragon> Hmm
[03:28:25] <wizardrydragon> *kicks pagent until it works*
[03:28:33] <Marzo> lol
[03:29:15] <wizardrydragon> Surprisingly that seems to have worked, heh
[03:29:36] <Marzo> The kick or the laughter? :-)
[03:29:55] <wizardrydragon> Im not sure, but whichever it was, it made pagent work :)
[03:34:30] <wizardrydragon> Now I need to see if I can kick Exult3D to work :P
[03:34:58] <Marzo> Good luck with that; you are *really* going to need it :-)
[03:35:12] <wizardrydragon> Ooh
[03:35:20] <wizardrydragon> It worked kinda sorta maybe
[03:35:32] <wizardrydragon> But ew, he must have one hell of a hack for the menu
[03:35:38] <Marzo> Did you get to see the 3d models?
[03:36:11] <wizardrydragon> No it threw an error because the paths for u7 and si are wrong in his exult.cfg, well incorrect for my system
[03:36:59] <wizardrydragon> aHe must be using the common OpenGL draw buffer, because it comes up with a garbled version of my Guild Wars screen in the background
[03:38:20] <wizardrydragon> tehehe old menu :P
[03:38:28] <Marzo> Indeed
[03:38:44] <wizardrydragon> He should just use a normal 2d scaler on the menu
[03:38:48] <Marzo> He seems to be using Exult code from around 2004 in fact
[03:38:52] <wizardrydragon> theres no reason to use a 3d scaler :P
[03:38:58] * wizardrydragon thought as much.
[03:40:00] <wizardrydragon> Exult3D throws an exception for me as soon as I try to select the game
[03:40:15] <wizardrydragon> Warning, trailing slash in path: "data\"
[03:40:15] <wizardrydragon> ============================
[03:40:15] <wizardrydragon> An exception occured:
[03:40:15] <wizardrydragon> Error opening file data\\exultmsg.txt
[03:40:15] <wizardrydragon> errno: 2
[03:40:16] <wizardrydragon> ============================
[03:40:50] <Marzo> It is probably the double backslashes
[03:40:55] <wizardrydragon> Might be
[03:41:02] <wizardrydragon> It mayh also be that it doesnt exsist
[03:41:11] <Marzo> True
[03:41:16] <Marzo> Does the file exist?
[03:41:37] <wizardrydragon> (I thought Exult comphensated for trailing slashes in the path? That may be newer than the code he's using though)
[03:42:02] <Marzo> Hey, that is the new trailing slash message
[03:42:22] <Marzo> The one reported ealier today was the one telling to complain to Colourless
[03:42:29] * wizardrydragon thought we were supposed to complain to Colourless :)
[03:42:41] <Marzo> lol
[03:42:59] <Marzo> I guess he got so many complaints that the message was changed :-)
[03:43:05] * wizardrydragon thinks he found out how to make op status sticky. Yay!
[03:43:14] <Marzo> woot
[03:43:54] <wizardrydragon> [23:43] *** -ChanServ- Syntax: SET <channel> SPLITOPS {ON|OFF}
[03:43:54] <wizardrydragon> [23:43] *** -ChanServ-
[03:43:54] <wizardrydragon> [23:43] *** -ChanServ- When the SPLITOPS setting is ON, any user who
[03:43:54] <wizardrydragon> [23:43] *** -ChanServ- gains ops from over a netsplit will be allowed
[03:43:54] <wizardrydragon> [23:43] *** -ChanServ- to keep thier ops. This can avoid mass-deops in
[03:43:55] <wizardrydragon> [23:43] *** -ChanServ- a channel where not everyone is on ChanServ
[03:44:14] <Marzo> Just in case, try this: in the exult.cfg, in the <disk> tag, add a <data_path> tag containing the path (without the trailing slash) to the data dir
[03:44:32] <wizardrydragon> I read that as if youre disconnected and you had op rights, youll keep them when you reconnect :P
[03:44:42] <Marzo> What is chanserv, anyway?
[03:44:56] <wizardrydragon> A figment of your overactive imagination ;)
[03:44:56] <Crysta> ill tell you what it is
[03:44:58] <Crysta> ANNOYING
[03:45:07] <wizardrydragon> Other than the obvious, Crysta.
[03:45:20] <wizardrydragon> Its the server interface for channel functions.
[03:46:00] <wizardrydragon> I guess Ill still have to op you guys for that to work, don't I? :)
[03:46:09] <Marzo> Yes
[03:46:15] --- wizardrydragon gives channel operator status to Marzo
[03:46:18] <Marzo> We can even test it to see if it works
[03:46:21] --- wizardrydragon gives channel operator status to Crysta
[03:46:21] <Marzo> brb
[03:46:26] <-- Marzo has left IRC ("Marzo vanishes suddenly.")
[03:46:43] <Crysta> er.. why am i opped
[03:46:44] <wizardrydragon> Unfortunately Vistaer is lazy and hasn't registered his nick :)
[03:47:02] --> Marzo has joined #tfl
[03:47:10] <wizardrydragon> Well I figure the TFL team should have op status
[03:47:16] <Marzo> Nope, didn't work :-)
[03:47:27] <wizardrydragon> Marzo, I think it's just if your connection is dropped
[03:47:39] <wizardrydragon> you can always use /chanserv op #tfl
[03:47:41] <Marzo> Oh. Not much use then, is it :-)
[03:47:51] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Marzo
[03:47:57] <Marzo> It works!
[03:47:57] <wizardrydragon> Which works as long as you are registered with NickServ
[03:48:41] <wizardrydragon> You can also use /chanserv access #tfl list if you're interested in knowing who has channel access
[03:48:44] <Crysta> im jsut sayin.. i barely know how to use icq
[03:48:56] <wizardrydragon> An interesting finge benefit is that it tells you when they last connected :)
[03:49:09] <wizardrydragon> *fringe
[03:49:41] <wizardrydragon> Well the only command that's worth knowing is /kick anyways, and I think you can figure out how to use it.
[03:49:59] <wizardrydragon> Just don't kick the exultbot or our logs go splode until wjp is asctive again :P
[03:50:30] <Marzo> :-)
[03:50:56] * Marzo was planning on testing kicking exultbot, but thought twice about it; exultbot looks *mean* :-)
[03:51:02] <wizardrydragon> Always useful to be able to kick someone who is being a pain.
[03:51:23] <wizardrydragon> Unfortunately you can't kick me since Im the super-op :)
[03:51:31] * wizardrydragon knows Marzo was thinking it.
[03:51:35] <Marzo> lol
[03:51:39] <Marzo> I am now :-)
[03:52:02] * wizardrydragon reminds Marzo that he might have the /kick command, but I have the /deop command :)
[03:52:03] <Marzo> Since you can't be kicked, let me try anyways :-)
[03:52:09] <Marzo> lol
[03:52:39] <wizardrydragon> You can also just /devoice someone, which is also kinda self explanatory.
[03:53:06] --- Marzo gives channel operator status to exultbot
[03:53:13] --- Marzo removes channel operator status from exultbot
[03:53:44] <wizardrydragon> Eh, don't op the exultbot, that breaks him/her/it pretty good :)
[03:54:00] <Marzo> Didn't know that
[03:54:11] <Marzo> Let's see if it is still working
[03:54:13] <Marzo> ?log
[03:54:13] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/tfllog.php
[03:54:25] <wizardrydragon> If you tried that and it was op, it goes splode sometimes
[03:54:36] <Marzo> Oh
[03:54:44] <wizardrydragon> Hmm.
[03:54:52] <wizardrydragon> Well I got further with Exult3D.
[03:54:52] <Marzo> The berserking exultbot-op?
[03:54:56] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[03:55:07] <wizardrydragon> But it crashes when I try to journey onward
[03:55:15] <Marzo> Same point I got
[03:55:25] <wizardrydragon> Yeah.
[03:55:32] <Marzo> Can't create a game nor journey onward
[03:55:42] <wizardrydragon> You know, if he wants CVS access, maybe he should get it to work first :P
[03:56:53] <wizardrydragon> it would probably be a lot more easy to track down the errors that Exult is encountering if he had built it with the --debug flag.
[03:57:02] <Marzo> Indeed
[03:57:24] * wizardrydragon wants to see the Feudal Lands in 3D, damn it! :P
[03:57:26] <Marzo> Would be also a lot easier if he had updated his codebase frequently
[03:57:57] <wizardrydragon> He should isolate his changes so he could just apply the diferences to a new snapshot when a new one is released.
[03:58:01] * Marzo does *not* want to see the Codex Shrine in 3D, unless if the camera is fixed from a top-down perspective
[03:58:02] <wizardrydragon> Makes sense to me :P
[03:58:23] <wizardrydragon> Dirty map hacks, Marzo? :)
[03:58:28] <Marzo> :-)
[03:58:50] * wizardrydragon has been meaning to fix that so it doesn't use hacks. It's on his to-do list.
[03:58:54] <Marzo> Well, the columns I used are 4 tiles high, whereas the roof is *five* tiles from the floor
[03:59:39] <Marzo> In the standard perspective, you can't spot it unless you know it is there
[03:59:45] * wizardrydragon points out that Exult can force that to happen due to shape clipping issues.
[03:59:52] <Marzo> In Exult3D... well, it will be glaring
[04:00:25] * wizardrydragon wonders if servus has tried implementing occlusion.
[04:00:30] <Marzo> This one was actually intentional
[04:00:50] <wizardrydragon> In 2D, it's a convienence, but in 3D, it may be neccesary. Occlusion that is.
[04:01:55] <Marzo> The shrine floor is 3 tiles from the ground, whereas it 'should' be 4; but the windows looked odd that way
[04:02:13] <wizardrydragon> Yeah; I avoid using the large staind glass windows because of it.
[04:02:17] * Marzo is ignoring the obvious hints
[04:02:25] <Marzo> :-)
[04:02:52] <wizardrydragon> They werent hints actually, it's more, I may *want* it in normal Exsult, but I think sam'd *need* it in Exult3D
[04:04:50] <wizardrydragon> Hmm.
[04:04:54] <wizardrydragon> I wonder:
[04:05:04] <Marzo> What do you wonder?
[04:05:14] <wizardrydragon> I (vaugely) remember reading about Pentagram having some sort of font support?
[04:05:29] <Marzo> It apparently does
[04:05:38] <Marzo> If by that you mean true type fonts
[04:05:47] <wizardrydragon> I wonder if we could steal that for Exult.
[04:06:04] <Marzo> DrCode is thinking about that
[04:06:20] <Marzo> But it will take some serious changes in Exult for it to happen
[04:06:46] <wizardrydragon> Isn't that always the case? :)
[04:07:00] <Marzo> :-)
[04:07:30] <Marzo> In order to work, it would have to be possible to render the fonts without scaling them
[04:07:48] <wizardrydragon> True
[04:07:56] <wizardrydragon> Hmm.
[04:07:57] <Marzo> That would neccessitate a layered approach to bliting
[04:08:28] <Marzo> Pentagram has that; Exult does not
[04:08:47] <wizardrydragon> Out of curiosity, what happens if you try to render fonts with scaling, I wonder?
[04:08:59] * wizardrydragon is always amusaed by dramatic crashes and bugs.
[04:09:10] <Marzo> They will likely be scaled up
[04:09:17] <Marzo> :-)
[04:09:27] <wizardrydragon> "Scaled up?" (Clarify?)
[04:10:09] <Marzo> Open a word processor and type some text in a small font size
[04:10:26] <Marzo> This would be neccessary for drawing fonts in 320x200, for example
[04:10:34] <wizardrydragon> Hmm.
[04:10:43] <Marzo> Then take a screenshot and scale up the area of the font
[04:11:11] <wizardrydragon> So it raasterizes fonts instead of keeping them as vectors, then?
[04:11:17] <wizardrydragon> *rasterizes
[04:11:18] <Marzo> Now take a font size twice what you originally used; you will see that the latter looks much better
[04:11:23] <Marzo> Yes
[04:11:27] <wizardrydragon> What you could try doing
[04:11:43] <wizardrydragon> Is use different point-sizes depending on different window sizes.
[04:11:51] <Marzo> (at least, this is what you'd currently get in Exult)
[04:11:54] <wizardrydragon> Especially since you're such a fan of lookup tables :)
[04:12:21] <Marzo> To do that would require major changes in Exult :-)
[04:12:42] <wizardrydragon> If there's something lately that hasn't, I want it shot.
[04:12:45] <Marzo> The problem is that we don't have the layered pentagram rendering system
[04:13:05] <wizardrydragon> Jeff's been talking about changing that for ages ... not for the same reason though.
[04:13:10] <Marzo> Increasing the number of possible intrinsics was trivial
[04:13:12] <Marzo> :-)
[04:13:50] <wizardrydragon> He was considering doing it so you could have the interface graphics independant of the scaler.
[04:14:08] <wizardrydragon> Mostly because I was bugging him about it :)
[04:14:17] <Marzo> That would also make possible using ttfs
[04:14:34] <wizardrydragon> Maybe we should bug him some more then :)
[04:14:46] <Marzo> It would also make something like Exult3D easier
[04:15:04] <wizardrydragon> It could also make an idea I had easier too.
[04:15:13] <wizardrydragon> Id still have to program it thhough, heh.
[04:15:21] <Marzo> What idea?
[04:15:33] <wizardrydragon> I thought I mentioned
[04:15:45] <wizardrydragon> Ive been toyhing with the idea of having usecode trace functions.
[04:16:21] <Marzo> Heh. Looking at the Exult source, there is already a considerable amount of code in that direction
[04:16:46] <Marzo> It is mostly disabled by conditional compilation, even for debug versions
[04:16:48] <wizardrydragon> But no actual interface for that :)
[04:17:14] <Marzo> From what I've seen, it is meant to work with ES
[04:17:38] <wizardrydragon> In any event, if it had the layered blitting, I could have an overlay with debugging step and trasce features for when my IDE uses Exult as a code sandbox :)
[04:17:44] <Marzo> Perhaps the interface part has been neglected in typical programmer manner until the core part is working
[04:18:48] <wizardrydragon> Probably
[04:18:59] <Marzo> Well, I am going to sleep now
[04:19:06] <wizardrydragon> Remember:
[04:19:17] <wizardrydragon> To return to the waking world, seek the pilalr of flame!
[04:19:18] <Marzo> I am not being able to concentrate in UCC Classes anymore today...
[04:19:19] <wizardrydragon> :)
[04:19:23] <Marzo> :-)
[04:19:43] <Marzo> Good night
[04:19:51] <wizardrydragon> Sleep well.
[04:20:02] <Marzo> Hm. Perhaps I should wait for Crysta to say good night?
[04:20:15] <wizardrydragon> She might appreciate it :)
[04:21:37] <Marzo> Crysta seems to be very concentrated
[04:21:47] <Marzo> Maybe working on the Mariah gump?
[04:21:57] <wizardrydragon> Obviously :)
[04:22:00] <Marzo> Or, more likely, seeking Blackrock in UO?
[04:22:04] <Marzo> :-)
[04:22:05] <wizardrydragon> :D
[04:22:27] <Crysta> night marzo
[04:22:32] <wizardrydragon> Hehe
[04:22:33] <Crysta> no.. im just reading stuff
[04:22:38] <Marzo> Good night
[04:22:41] <wizardrydragon> Night
[04:22:41] <Crysta> ._.
[04:22:44] <Crysta> night
[04:22:49] <-- Marzo has left IRC ("Marzo vanishes suddenly.")
[04:22:59] <wizardrydragon> I'm playing Guild Wars myself.
[04:26:53] <Crysta> and im rereading the nitpicks on hacki's page :p
[04:26:59] <wizardrydragon> lol
[04:31:18] <-- Crysta has left IRC ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
[04:31:40] * wizardrydragon pokes Vis.
[07:09:10] <-- wizardrydragon has left IRC ("wizardrydragon rides off into the sunset.")
[16:02:54] --> Marzo has joined #tfl
[16:02:54] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Marzo
[16:37:29] --- Marzo is now known as Marzo_away
[18:49:57] --> wizardrydragon has joined #tfl
[18:49:57] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wizardrydragon
[18:50:12] <wizardrydragon> hi
[18:50:22] --- Marzo_away is now known as Marzo
[18:50:24] <Marzo> Hi
[18:50:47] <wizardrydragon> How goes life
[18:50:55] <Marzo> Normal
[18:51:04] <wizardrydragon> Normal is good
[18:51:08] * Marzo is working in usecode classes
[18:51:18] <wizardrydragon> Still? :P
[18:51:19] <Marzo> It is an ungrateful task :-)
[18:51:32] <Marzo> Not as easy as I though
[18:51:40] * wizardrydragon searches for a motivational whip.
[18:51:41] <Marzo> Good news is that I have been coding it
[18:52:01] <wizardrydragon> Indeed.
[18:53:14] <wizardrydragon> How far have you gotten with it?
[18:53:31] <Marzo> The Exult part is mostly done; I am now working on UCC
[18:53:55] <Marzo> ('mostly' is due to the fact that I need to test it with some usecode)
[18:55:20] <wizardrydragon> No code survives contact with QA :)
[18:55:29] <Marzo> Indeed
[18:55:39] <wizardrydragon> Or with me :)
[18:55:45] <Marzo> lol
[19:05:03] <wizardrydragon> Heh.
[19:05:12] <Marzo> What?
[19:06:26] <wizardrydragon> I got Exult3D to load a game, but it crashed as soon as I moved
[19:06:38] <Marzo> lol
[19:07:00] <Marzo> At least you got to see some 3D rendering :-)
[19:07:13] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[19:07:44] <wizardrydragon> That's the best anyone except sam's got, heh, so I guess I should be proud, hehe
[19:08:02] <Marzo> Didn't dex909 do better?
[19:08:24] <wizardrydragon> Last I checked he couldn't get past the journey onward
[19:08:35] <Marzo> Hm
[19:08:45] <Marzo> Perhaps I misunderstood what he said
[19:08:58] <wizardrydragon> Either way, no ones got it to work for more than a few moments :P
[19:09:08] <Marzo> lol
[19:09:12] <Marzo> Very true
[19:09:25] <Marzo> (if they got it to work at all :-))
[19:09:38] <wizardrydragon> I take it you had no more luck?
[19:09:59] <Marzo> It crashes on create game or journey onwards
[19:10:11] <Marzo> *before* I get to see anything
[19:10:37] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[19:10:42] <wizardrydragon> Its taunting you.
[19:10:49] <Marzo> Yeah
[19:10:59] <Marzo> So I nixed it and went to work on classes :-)
[19:11:27] <wizardrydragon> Lol.
[19:11:37] <wizardrydragon> I still want to see TFL in three dimensions! :P
[19:11:53] <wizardrydragon> It's probably gonna look horrible with some of the map hacks, but still, 3d!
[19:12:02] <Marzo> :-)
[19:12:17] * Marzo thinks 3D graphics are way too overrated these days :-)
[19:13:25] * wizardrydragon does too; he doesn't want anyhthing fancy, but something simple 3D would be nice.
[19:13:52] * wizardrydragon has wanted a good 3D ultima game since that monstrosity of a UO distro 3rd Dawn came out.
[19:19:06] <wizardrydragon> marzo, how hard would it be to make Exult accept higher settings for an item's Z axis? ("lift")
[19:19:34] <Marzo> Have no idea
[19:19:39] <Marzo> *I
[19:20:05] <wizardrydragon> Crysta and I were both under the impression that the 13 limit had been lifted, but if it was, Exult Studio doesn't allow it to go above it still.
[19:20:38] <Marzo> The limit is 16 IIRC, but the object's height also count
[19:20:44] <wizardrydragon> Indeed.
[19:21:15] <wizardrydragon> Well whatever the number, I think Jeff had raised iult a while ago (this mayh be wrong though) but in either event ES is still enforcing the limit.
[19:21:43] <Marzo> I think he was thinking about raising it, but never actually did it
[19:21:46] <wizardrydragon> And it's frustrating because right now it's keeping me form putting crennalations on the top of taller buildings :P
[19:22:01] <wizardrydragon> Such as the towers I'm building in TFL right now.
[19:22:39] <wizardrydragon> (Hide lift limit is 16, placement lift limit is 13, I just checked.
[19:23:20] <wizardrydragon> Really I just need it raised slightly so I can put crennalations on buildings, but it couldn't hurt to raise it a little more than we need for future uses :P
[19:23:30] <wizardrydragon> Guess we should bug Jeff :P
[19:25:05] <wizardrydragon> Haha @ wwwolf's post.
[19:25:15] <wizardrydragon> Well, truth to be told, Ultima IX is rare in a way. You see, I'd like to own one, but it appears to me there's two distinct kind of periods of world history as we know it: periods when I have money to spend, and periods when Ultima IX is being offered on local auction sites. The two don't overlap. =)
[19:26:36] --> Crysta has joined #TFL
[19:26:45] <Crysta> hi
[19:26:51] <Marzo> Hi
[19:27:07] <wizardrydragon> Moo.
[19:27:11] <Crysta> is it till dead in here?
[19:27:15] <Crysta> *still
[19:27:21] <wizardrydragon> Not as muchso as it has been.
[19:28:09] <Crysta> meaning yes :P
[19:28:40] <wizardrydragon> Meaning that there's actually something in the log if you were to check it :P
[19:28:45] <wizardrydragon> Speaking of that
[19:28:49] <wizardrydragon> Exultbot! ?log
[19:29:12] <Marzo> exultbot! ?log
[19:29:19] <Crysta> i dont check the log
[19:29:20] <Marzo> exultbot: log
[19:29:32] <Marzo> Doesn't seem to work like that
[19:30:04] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[19:30:07] <wizardrydragon> ?log
[19:30:07] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/tfllog.php
[19:30:42] <wizardrydragon> Is it just me
[19:30:53] <wizardrydragon> or is the gypsy wagon just one huge map hack.
[19:31:10] <Crysta> huh?
[19:31:12] * wizardrydragon is fiddling with it, and the pieces don't seem to fit together.
[19:34:52] <wizardrydragon> Hmm, okay they do (kinda) but when i actually correctly place the entry piece on the far side, the floor clips over it instead of under it.
[19:35:02] <wizardrydragon> That *might* be a bug.
[19:35:33] <wizardrydragon> But I'm not sure how the original was made and Im not sure if I pulled it apart if I could put it back together again :)
[19:36:06] <Crysta> then pull one apart and dont save
[19:36:19] <Crysta> really.. go in in exult and use hackmover
[19:41:45] <wizardrydragon> Eww. Why use the hackmover when you can just use mapedit mode :P
[20:32:36] <Marzo> OK: classes can now be defined and the inheritance mechanism is working
[20:33:05] <Marzo> I must 'only' add support for declaring and using instances of classes in UCC
[21:14:37] <wizardrydragon> hmm
[21:14:46] <Marzo> What?
[21:15:01] <wizardrydragon> I feel UCC breaking in the near future
[21:15:09] <Marzo> lol
[21:15:16] <wizardrydragon> ;)
[21:15:31] <wizardrydragon> How are you making class declaration work in UCC?
[21:15:38] <wizardrydragon> i.e. how do I declare classes now?
[21:15:51] <Marzo> You declare them by name of class
[21:15:53] <wizardrydragon> Now meaning when i have the new version.
[21:15:58] <wizardrydragon> Example? :P
[21:16:12] <Marzo> Here is the example I am using to test
[21:16:14] <Marzo> class Test
[21:16:14] <Marzo> {
[21:16:14] <Marzo> var testvar;
[21:16:14] <Marzo> now_what() { testvar = 0; }
[21:16:14] <Marzo> Fun2() { this = 0; }
[21:16:14] <Marzo> }
[21:16:16] <Marzo> class Test2 : Test
[21:16:18] <Marzo> {
[21:16:20] <Marzo> var testvar1;
[21:16:21] <wizardrydragon> Ah.
[21:16:22] <Marzo> now_what1() { testvar = 0; }
[21:16:24] <Marzo> Fun2() { this = 0; Test mytest; }
[21:16:26] <Marzo> }
[21:16:27] <wizardrydragon> Uncomplicated then.
[21:16:28] <Marzo> Fun2 ()
[21:16:30] <Marzo> {
[21:16:32] <Marzo> Test mytest;
[21:16:34] <Marzo> Test2 foo = new Test2(0, 1);
[21:16:36] <Marzo> Test bar = new Test2(0, 1);
[21:16:38] <Marzo> }
[21:16:39] <wizardrydragon> Some languages make it pretty complicated :P
[21:16:40] <Marzo> This compiles, even!
[21:17:01] <wizardrydragon> That example killed two birds with one stone, I was also going to ask how the new inheritance works.
[21:17:17] <Marzo> Note that in the last function, there is a 'bar' class of type 'Test' being initialized with a 'Test2' class
[21:17:37] <Marzo> Since the 'Test2' class inherits from 'Test', there is no problem
[21:17:43] <wizardrydragon> Indeed.
[21:17:48] <Marzo> If you tried the other way around, it would not compile
[21:18:31] <wizardrydragon> The other way around? oh you mean trhying to inherit test from test2, yeah, I'm not THAT stupid :)
[21:18:34] <Marzo> Also, if you tried initializing a class with the constructor of a different, unrelated, class, UCC would complain
[21:18:49] <Marzo> No, I meant this:
[21:18:51] <wizardrydragon> Although I do tend to confuse myself easily when I program inheritance :)
[21:18:55] <Marzo> Test2 bar = new Test(0);
[21:19:11] <wizardrydragon> Yeah that's kind of what I mean, though probably not what I said.
[21:19:16] <wizardrydragon> ;)
[21:19:20] <Marzo> Although it compiles, the usecode isn't generated yet, though
[21:19:25] <Marzo> :-)
[21:19:30] * wizardrydragon waits patiently for the new ucc.exe :)
[21:19:38] <Marzo> :-)
[21:20:19] <Marzo> UCC will also reject any attempts to assign a class to a var or to an incompatible class
[21:20:32] <wizardrydragon> Hehe.
[21:20:37] <Marzo> It will also reject any attempts to assign a var to a class
[21:20:44] <wizardrydragon> Rudimentary pseudo-tyhpechecking! Yay
[21:20:53] <wizardrydragon> *typechecking
[21:21:00] <Marzo> Even though vars and classes are the same thing for Exult
[21:21:04] <Marzo> Indeed
[21:21:15] <Marzo> Now we need just typochecking :-)
[21:21:29] <wizardrydragon> When classes work we might snowball typechecking a little, but for now let's just get classes/inheritance fully working :)
[21:21:58] <Marzo> I am also thinking of adding structs to UCC
[21:22:05] <Marzo> But I think I mentioned this already
[21:22:09] <wizardrydragon> Yes, you did.
[21:22:22] <wizardrydragon> Basically then, user-defined types.
[21:22:50] * wizardrydragon thinks task "add structs" is someone dependant on task "add type-checking" :)
[21:22:54] <Marzo> Although the structs I plan on adding would be nothing more than UCC constructs; UCC would compile them as arrays
[21:23:18] <Marzo> Not neccessarily
[21:23:22] <wizardrydragon> IAFAIK that's how some C compilers handle data types too.
[21:23:42] <wizardrydragon> Well typechecking isn't rquired, but without it it can be hell debugging structs :)
[21:23:50] <Marzo> It is, although you can define elements of different sizes
[21:24:04] <Marzo> True
[21:24:12] <Marzo> It will have to wait then :-)
[21:24:34] <wizardrydragon> Well you can add structs without typechecking, but expect to be fixing my code a lot then :)
[21:24:46] <Marzo> lol
[21:25:35] <wizardrydragon> I think one thing we should look at is fixing static vars if they havent been unbroken yet :P
[21:25:58] <Marzo> Easy, I can only work on 100 things at a time :-)
[21:26:11] <wizardrydragon> Only 100? You disappoint me :P
[21:26:14] <Marzo> It is in my list, but I will implement classes first
[21:26:23] <wizardrydragon> Obviously. :P
[21:26:45] <wizardrydragon> Its just my pestering of Jeff to get them done is as of yet fruitless :)
[21:26:56] <Marzo> lol
[21:27:11] <Marzo> I have an idea that might make the problem moot
[21:28:08] <wizardrydragon> If you say object scope you may as well just stab yourself now :P
[21:28:09] <Marzo> Like: maybe when pushing an static var, UCC can create a hidden, nonstatic local duplicate of it and push *that* instead
[21:28:31] <wizardrydragon> "an static var?"
[21:28:38] * wizardrydragon kicks Marzo for his bad grammar :)
[21:28:48] <Marzo> :-)
[21:29:02] <wizardrydragon> That *might* work
[21:29:04] <Marzo> Sorry, I am more focused in the UCC classes right now :-)
[21:29:16] <wizardrydragon> But it *might* aslso cause an awful lot of other problems.
[21:30:08] <Marzo> Possibly
[21:31:16] <wizardrydragon> Every time you use a second variable like that you double the potential for trouble :)
[21:31:24] * wizardrydragon knows this well from the Karma code.
[21:31:30] <Marzo> :-)
[21:31:54] <wizardrydragon> Also I am rewriting the gyhpsy intro because of var problems like that.
[21:31:56] <wizardrydragon> :P
[21:31:57] <Marzo> Maybe if Exult does that instead?
[21:32:03] <wizardrydragon> That could work.
[21:33:05] <Marzo> Well, when I am fixing it I will take a better look and see what I can do