#tfl@irc.freenode.net logs for 13 May 2009 (GMT)

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[02:41:19] --> WizardryDragon has joined #tfl
[02:41:20] --- ChanServ gives voice to WizardryDragon
[02:41:25] <WizardryDragon> Hihi
[02:41:32] --- Marzo_away is now known as Marzo
[02:41:35] <Marzo> Hi
[02:41:42] <WizardryDragon> How goes?
[02:41:49] <Marzo> Fine
[02:41:52] <Marzo> You?
[02:42:48] <WizardryDragon> Tired, I had a fairly long and stressful shift today. But thats how life goes sometimes, I imagine.
[02:44:22] <WizardryDragon> I felt like saying something altogether not as nice about that windows 3.1 comment, but I thought better of it.
[02:44:52] <Marzo> I thought that he was obviously making a joke
[02:45:23] <Marzo> (but I agree that the lack of slimelys or other indicators can get the wrong message accross)
[02:45:28] <WizardryDragon> He probably was, but it wasn't terribly helpful.
[02:45:37] <WizardryDragon> Something about fuel and fires comes to mind.
[02:45:40] <Marzo> Aye
[02:45:59] <Marzo> Although it did get me thinking of a DOS port of Exult
[02:46:14] <Marzo> (not that I would ever waste time on such a fool's quest, mind you)
[02:46:47] <WizardryDragon> (Actually, I was thinking of posting just "Is that Virtuous, Avatar?", but Im not sure that would be any more helpful :-) )
[02:47:14] <WizardryDragon> It would be slightly more on topic, though!
[02:47:15] <WizardryDragon> :P
[02:47:24] * Marzo is just glad that MinGW is finally getting to more modern versions of GCC
[02:48:00] <WizardryDragon> See, as soon as you said "Dos version of Exult", I thought of Voodoo, and a small part of me died inside.
[02:48:08] <Marzo> (it is bad enough that BSD systems are crippled in this (and many other) ways, but Windows has a much bigger user base...)
[02:48:15] <Marzo> :-)
[02:48:44] <Marzo> Actually, other DOS extenders could be used for that, so that Voodoo can finally be put to death
[02:49:31] <Marzo> (DJGPP, in particular, generates 32-bit DOS executables with a flat memory model and without Voodoo or any such hacks)
[02:49:37] <WizardryDragon> Oh, its probably possible, but as someone that remembers the horrors of trying to get Voodoo to cooperate on my old 486, it is an inescapable thought :P
[02:49:54] <Marzo> I can relate
[02:50:59] <WizardryDragon> Anyways, I've been working on the map some - I still have to get a CVS program for my new computer to commit the changes, but if you noted the link with the minimap, from the Exult forums, it gives at least a rudimentary idea of how I've been tooling around.
[02:51:19] <WizardryDragon> In case that you didn't, its here: http://www.thefeudallands.ca/wiki/Map
[02:52:04] <Marzo> Other than the different palette, I failed to note any differences
[02:52:39] <Marzo> (and yes, I had seen it)
[02:52:53] <WizardryDragon> Theres a couple, though only perhaps one of the changes is obvious - to the left of the island about the middle of the map.
[02:53:33] <Marzo> Ah, I see it
[02:53:40] <WizardryDragon> Though it will, indeed, be a little more easier to show once I am able to commit the changes.
[02:53:59] <Marzo> (how on the Feudal Lands did I miss that?)
[02:54:40] <WizardryDragon> Essentially though, the post on TFL looking a little to close to its U1 counterpart did ring somewhat true to me - I'm not going to go through the effort of changing whole sections of map to move them around or something, but it occured to me I could add some realistic (ish) differences to the map.
[02:55:29] <Marzo> Particularly taking in consideration the upheaval that occurred after the shattering of the Gem of Immortality
[02:55:41] <WizardryDragon> The much harder to tell change looking at the minimap - I went through two of the big forest section and hand-tweaked all the chunks so that they actually look half-right.
[02:55:55] <WizardryDragon> (Or half-wrong, depending on your point of view!)
[02:56:20] <Marzo> (or equally right and wrong for a third perspective)
[02:56:31] <Marzo> :-p
[02:56:35] <WizardryDragon> That was a time sink and then some, but in some spots it was pretty glaring that the tiles didn't ... tile, previously.
[02:57:46] <Marzo> A suggestion for the minimaps: instead of taking screenshots from Exult, I think it would be better to open the minimaps.vga file in ES and export the frame
[02:58:01] <WizardryDragon> Probably - but I was feeling lazy :P
[02:58:11] <Marzo> (ensures a consistent palette, doesn't have the yellow cross-hairs and you can select the size and scaling method)
[02:58:51] <WizardryDragon> Incidentally -the lightish-green areas that are kidna just blobs on the right side of the map were my placeholders for the cities I havent started yet, in case you were wondering.
[02:59:20] * Marzo ponders that it would be nice to have a minimap that weighted all objects in a chunk to have mountains and trees appear more true to digital life
[02:59:40] <Marzo> Aye, I figured as much
[02:59:57] <WizardryDragon> Though Im playing around with working on the bigger one tonight.
[03:00:19] <Marzo> The one in the NE island?
[03:00:42] <WizardryDragon> Yep.
[03:01:13] <WizardryDragon> I have a good idea how I want it to be, and a good idea that Im probably going to need to make at least a couple handfuls of new shapes for it.
[03:01:15] <Marzo> Are you thining on having a bridge between the newly sectioned mainland or will a boat or ferry or sorts be required?
[03:01:31] <WizardryDragon> Im undecided currently.
[03:01:33] <Marzo> An idea
[03:01:55] <Marzo> In the Wiki, there could be a page listing required shapes with a blurb describing them
[03:02:18] <Marzo> Then, anyone could contribute to make the required shapes
[03:02:19] <WizardryDragon> On the topic of shapes, I want to have some "exotic foods" for TFL in the same kind of the idea from SI
[03:02:26] <Marzo> Aye
[03:02:28] <WizardryDragon> And yeah, I intend to. One for faces, too.
[03:02:59] <Marzo> Not that I am counting, but that is about the 10th time we discuss exotic foods :-p
[03:03:17] <WizardryDragon> Though I've been working on doing a few of those myself: http://www.thefeudallands.ca/mediawiki/images/b/b3/Xantar.gif
[03:03:26] <WizardryDragon> I like the idea!
[03:03:34] <Marzo> In the subject of faces
[03:03:35] <WizardryDragon> Its simple and it adds flavour (har har)
[03:03:39] <WizardryDragon> Though -
[03:03:50] <WizardryDragon> I feel bad for the gargoyle that ended up being "demon roast"
[03:05:17] <Marzo> While Lanthlas has put quite some work in those faces, they are probably unusable for TFL
[03:05:32] <WizardryDragon> I already told him as much, actually, just not in the forum thread.
[03:06:20] <WizardryDragon> I don't have a problem with him abusing the wiki to keep them together and help him work though, unless someone gets upset about copyrights or soemthing, though
[03:06:22] <Marzo> The Keldorn and Drizzt portraits are particularly glaring, but all of them are just too similar to SI characters to pass off as BG characters
[03:06:50] <WizardryDragon> Aye.
[03:07:18] <Marzo> One I like (and would like to know where it is from) is the gypsy one (http://www.thefeudallands.ca/wiki/File:083.png)
[03:07:28] <WizardryDragon> I posted a comment on the discussion page of that page on the wiki, to keep it from being flamebait on the forums
[03:07:36] <WizardryDragon> Verbatim:
[03:07:45] <WizardryDragon> I just wanted to say something about licensing that I know would just be flamebait if I put it on the forums - so I post here. Namely, there is an issue of copyright and licensing with using other fantasy portraits for conversions to BG. Serpent Isle portraits are "okay" because they're still the IP of EA/ORIGIN whose game we're modifying, but other works - unless the artist has released...
[03:07:47] <WizardryDragon> ...rights, would be incompatible with the legal licenses under which both Exult and The Feudal Lands are released.
[03:09:03] <Marzo> Aye, I was just reading that
[03:09:06] <Marzo> Hm
[03:09:23] <Marzo> Maybe the U6 portraits could be mined for ideas for gargoyle portraits
[03:09:55] <WizardryDragon> Using the Lazarus ones isn't a bad idea if Tiberius / the team doesn't have an issue with it
[03:09:58] <WizardryDragon> That said,
[03:10:21] <WizardryDragon> If I do "officially" have SI-style pictures in TFL, they'll be original and made for TFL.
[03:10:31] <WizardryDragon> For BG, that is, of course.
[03:10:33] <Marzo> Agreed
[03:11:19] <WizardryDragon> Though Im half inclined to see if I can kidnap the Lazarus artists to that end... I was quite the fan of a lot of the artwork from it.
[03:11:27] <Marzo> Maybe, just maybe and only for consistency, using the companion portraits from SI, I would think
[03:11:38] <WizardryDragon> That would be of course the exception -
[03:11:57] <WizardryDragon> Though I _do_ agree with Lathlas on that end - Im not a fan of the Shamino portrait :P
[03:11:57] <Marzo> I don't think they would be fans of working with the U7 palette, but it is a nice idea
[03:12:04] <WizardryDragon> Ehh
[03:12:17] <WizardryDragon> Im willing to do pallette grunt work if it keeps the artists happy :P
[03:12:42] <WizardryDragon> I had to convert the couple Koloboko did for TFL before he fell off the face of the earth (or the internet, at least)
[03:12:43] <Marzo> That just means that *you* won't be happy about the *artists* though :-)
[03:13:40] <WizardryDragon> Heh, I was the one that did some of the inital tooling around with the pallettes - I dont _enjoy_ it ... but after ... how long has it been now? A while, anyways. .. after how long its been that Ive had to work around them, its not a big deal to me.
[03:14:07] <Marzo> Now, I remember making a few portraits for TFL that I think are in CVS but not in the faces.vga file
[03:14:12] <Marzo> Let me see
[03:14:21] <WizardryDragon> A lot of the work on the PS version of the shape exporter got done because of my badgering
[03:14:27] <WizardryDragon> Seems like everyone else uses the GIMP :P
[03:14:50] <WizardryDragon> Not that I have a problem with the GIMP - Im just much more familiar with Photoshop.
[03:14:50] <Marzo> The shp plug-in for Gimp is one of the best things ever
[03:15:23] <WizardryDragon> I never quite liked the interface for the GIMP enough to invest the kind of time Id need to learn to use it properly and efficiently.
[03:16:31] --- WizardryDragon has changed the topic to: Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands - the official channel | The official Alpha Release is now available! | This channel is publicly logged
[03:16:35] <Marzo> Here is one: http://u7feudallands.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/u7feudallands/tfl/src/graphics/Marzo/Unicorn_Portrait_00.png?revision=1.1&view=markup
[03:16:58] <WizardryDragon> Ah yes, I remember you showing that to me at some point.
[03:17:05] <WizardryDragon> I like\
[03:17:09] <WizardryDragon> -\
[03:17:47] <Marzo> Not as good, but: http://u7feudallands.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/u7feudallands/tfl/src/graphics/Marzo/Mariah_Portrait_00.png?revision=1.3&view=markup
[03:17:48] <WizardryDragon> All the nude pixel art in that folder, oh my
[03:17:51] <WizardryDragon> :-)
[03:17:53] <Marzo> (supposedly, Mariah)
[03:17:59] <Marzo> lol
[03:18:08] <WizardryDragon> Not bad, actually - but it needs some shading.
[03:18:18] <Marzo> I imagine how that would work in ExultHD
[03:18:26] <Marzo> (the nude shapes, I mean)
[03:18:29] <WizardryDragon> Oh just a quick hack with levels and shadows/highlights.
[03:18:38] <Marzo> We would probably have to add a censor blur :-)
[03:18:48] <WizardryDragon> Or a version in underwear.
[03:19:20] <Marzo> Another bad one: http://u7feudallands.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/u7feudallands/tfl/src/graphics/Marzo/Laurianna_Face_00.png?revision=1.2&view=markup
[03:19:26] <Marzo> (supposedly Laurianna)
[03:19:43] <WizardryDragon> When Daggerfall first came out, there was such a fuss about removing all your characters clothing actually leaving your character nude (oh my!), that they ended up having an adult content thingy that added underwear :P
[03:20:01] <Marzo> The worse of the batch: http://u7feudallands.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/u7feudallands/tfl/src/graphics/Marzo/Katrina_00.png?revision=1.3&view=markup
[03:20:06] <Marzo> (supposedly Katrina)
[03:20:19] <WizardryDragon> Honestly, I think its a bunch of bunk, these games are already rated M for "Mature" to begin with, but eh.
[03:20:35] <Marzo> Julia: http://u7feudallands.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/u7feudallands/tfl/src/graphics/Marzo/Julia_Portrait_00.png?revision=1.2&view=markup
[03:20:42] <WizardryDragon> The Laurianna one would look a lot better without the cheezy glow, IMO
[03:21:08] <Marzo> You mean in the background?
[03:21:11] <WizardryDragon> Yar
[03:21:24] <Marzo> New worse in the batch: http://u7feudallands.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/u7feudallands/tfl/src/graphics/Marzo/Jaana_Portrait_00.png?revision=1.3&view=markup
[03:21:30] <Marzo> (supposedly Jaana)
[03:21:33] <WizardryDragon> Though, to be honest, I think that kinda stuff got horribly overdone in the SI portraits to begin with.
[03:21:53] <WizardryDragon> Katrina's not bad, though her hair's supposed to be a dark brown in BG
[03:22:09] <WizardryDragon> Jaana needs a hair stylist pretty badly, on the same note
[03:22:31] <WizardryDragon> I took all day making the one for Xantar I linked above
[03:22:42] <Marzo> Making Katrina's hair the same tone as Mariah's would probably work, I think
[03:23:32] <WizardryDragon> http://www.thefeudallands.ca/mediawiki/images/b/b3/Xantar.gif <-- I must have redone the hair a dozen times before I settled on that, though it doesnt look very close to the "SI" style as far as hair goes.
[03:23:37] <Marzo> Hm. What stuff were you referring to when you said that "that kinda stuff got horribly overdone in the SI portraits to begin with"?
[03:23:49] <WizardryDragon> The glows and that kind of thing:
[03:24:01] <WizardryDragon> The fire effects in a couple come to mind
[03:24:59] <Marzo> The only ones I remember in SI that had glows are Skyrise and the Chaos Hierophant
[03:25:25] <Marzo> (And the Shamino the Anarch, but that one is barely ever seen)
[03:25:44] <WizardryDragon> The Hierophant is the one Im thinking of
[03:25:45] <WizardryDragon> :P
[03:26:06] <Marzo> :-)
[03:26:10] <WizardryDragon> There's not many - not saying they were. Saying that the onest that did have that, were overdone.
[03:26:16] <WizardryDragon> Just my opinion, though
[03:26:37] <Marzo> The only reason I added backgrounds to the Laurianna portraits was to simulate the same range of portraits she has in BG
[03:27:03] <Marzo> But maybe it is better done with facial expression and a few more subtle magic effects than the way it is done now
[03:27:06] <WizardryDragon> Random thought - you'd think Trinsic would be a little odder of a place
[03:27:11] <WizardryDragon> I mean
[03:27:20] <WizardryDragon> They _did_ have Dupre as mayor for a while
[03:27:45] <Marzo> (the REAL Trinsic is the town of Booze :-p)
[03:28:05] <WizardryDragon> Hee
[03:28:14] * Marzo wonders what the SI devs were planning for portrait #297
[03:28:30] <Marzo> (or rather, the town of Wine)
[03:28:34] <WizardryDragon> You know what I really liked about the Lazarus pictures?
[03:28:48] <WizardryDragon> They had some nods to the other ultimas and a few other things, without being obvious about it
[03:29:11] <Marzo> (or the town of Drunkenness, according to Mandrake)
[03:29:31] <Marzo> Aye
[03:29:57] <Marzo> (oh: whatever did you think of the Julia portrait, BTW?)
[03:31:05] <WizardryDragon> Its actually pretty nice, except for one glaring inconsistency I hope I dont have to point out
[03:31:31] <Marzo> The fact that Julia was fat in BG?
[03:32:33] <WizardryDragon> The pigtails.
[03:32:44] <Marzo> Oh, that
[03:33:13] <Marzo> (I never really noticed those, as I always got to Minoc with a full party)
[03:33:15] <WizardryDragon> (And no, her weight in BG is probably an inconsistency with the rest of the canon, if the word 'canon' can even really be used in the context of Ultima)
[03:33:50] * WizardryDragon doesn't look forward to trying to make some things work out somewhat consistently.
[03:35:34] <Marzo> A question about Iain's portrait (http://u7feudallands.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/u7feudallands/tfl/src/graphics/Wizardry_Dragon/iain_face_00.png?revision=1.1&view=markup)
[03:35:51] <Marzo> What is that thing in his face supposed to be?
[03:36:01] <WizardryDragon> Fixed, soon
[03:36:04] <WizardryDragon> lol
[03:36:08] <Marzo> lol
[03:36:23] <Marzo> So, miscolored skin :-p
[03:37:10] <WizardryDragon> Oh, no, there's a story to it - he was supposedly burned by the "demons" during some fighting, and that was about as best as I could manage "burnt" then.
[03:37:26] * WizardryDragon has improved since those attempts, or so he hopes.
[03:37:45] <Marzo> (hey look: an edited version of one of the avatars in Avatar Pack made into the Idea:SIFaces page in the Wiki)
[03:38:01] <WizardryDragon> lol
[03:38:02] <Marzo> Ah
[03:38:40] <Marzo> (and a badly edited, flipped SI Shamino is present as Tseramed too)
[03:39:18] <WizardryDragon> On that note - one thing Im going to have a lot of fun with (not being facetious, I will), is having some fun spinning around the good/evil axis - it was one of the things that defined Ultima in the early games at least was that morality play sort of concept, and its going to be interesting making some things the players expect to be good turn out to be bad (and vice versa)
[03:39:35] <WizardryDragon> And its going to be a challenge to make that so that its not obvious and predictable, too.
[03:39:38] <Marzo> (though the fact that it is flipped is actually kind of fitting...)
[03:40:03] <WizardryDragon> And - in fairness - Tsermead was kinda just a wannabe Shamino anyways :P
[03:40:22] * Marzo thinks of a certain room of children for no reason
[03:40:32] <Marzo> lol
[03:40:41] <WizardryDragon> Its funny you should mention that, because that's an example I use commonly.
[03:40:55] <WizardryDragon> Im not going to be that obvious though.
[03:41:11] <Marzo> Given how good Tseramed's arrows actually are, I think that the wannabe got the upper hand in the end :-p
[03:41:42] <WizardryDragon> I never trusted my companions enough with projectile weapons to know, after the Iolo triple-crossbow "incident"
[03:43:32] <WizardryDragon> Im going to have a couple companions that are a little questionable in the end, but I dont want them to be as obvious as Saduj (cmon!) or as cheesy as Serlina from SI.
[03:43:39] <Marzo> The problem with missile weapons is that everyone always insisted in having melee fighters rush straight ahead while the archers fired arrows
[03:44:07] <WizardryDragon> The problem with missile weapons is every time I give Iolo one, I end up with bolts in my back :P
[03:44:11] <Marzo> You think that after the first incident they would learn the lesson :-)
[03:44:33] <WizardryDragon> I was always the spellcaster, so I was always out of the way, never seemed to matter though.
[03:44:41] <WizardryDragon> I think he just harbours some secret grudge.
[03:44:43] <WizardryDragon> :P
[03:44:48] <Marzo> Hehe
[03:45:00] <Marzo> Me, I gave missile weapons to everyone
[03:45:32] <Marzo> If everyone is trying to stay away from foes to pelt them with arrows, nobody gets hit by an arrow in the back
[03:45:47] <WizardryDragon> The front is an entirely different matter, though :P
[03:45:50] <WizardryDragon> hee
[03:45:51] <Marzo> (unless an enemy is coming from that direction)
[03:46:03] <WizardryDragon> Anyways
[03:46:11] <WizardryDragon> As far as companions in TFL go -
[03:46:28] * Marzo remembers a parody of U7 in which Iolo hits Dupre in the back with magic bolts
[03:46:56] <Marzo> Shoot
[03:46:59] <WizardryDragon> Well, lets just say that all of them are going to have a bit more to them than just "hey Im a good guy!"
[03:47:04] <WizardryDragon> Or "hey, Im evil!"
[03:47:14] * Marzo reconsiders what he just said, for fear of Iolo's backstabbing wrath
[03:47:19] <WizardryDragon> Lol
[03:48:04] <Marzo> I think that TFL is a perfect place for exactly that
[03:48:18] <WizardryDragon> Exactly
[03:48:29] <Marzo> It is a land where the Virtues haven't been established, and the companions aren't Champions of the Virtues or anything
[03:49:22] <WizardryDragon> Well - they do and will have an idea of morality, but they're not beholden to British's virtues, nor are they going to recognize the Avatar as anything but a fairly good warrior (or mage, or whatever the player chooses to be)
[03:49:50] <Marzo> (what, no 'good at everything' like SI? :-p)
[03:50:05] <WizardryDragon> Lol
[03:50:17] <WizardryDragon> Dupre blew the top off that one, in SI.
[03:50:22] <WizardryDragon> In fawn, at least!
[03:50:42] * Marzo remembers how many compliments you get on magic ability, fighting and even beauty that the Avatar gets in SI
[03:51:23] <WizardryDragon> But in TFL, since theres going to be at least a couple people who can travel between Britannia and TFL, they're going to have an idea whats going on in "Old Sosaria", and the virtues and such.
[03:51:28] <WizardryDragon> They just really don't care :P
[03:51:49] <Marzo> Hm
[03:52:16] <WizardryDragon> (Probably not much more of an idea, or perhaps a very convoluted one, the rumourmill does tend to do that after all :P )
[03:52:25] <WizardryDragon> But yeah
[03:52:48] <Marzo> Maybe could be also some sort of diplomatic emissary to/from LB's court
[03:53:09] <Marzo> (depending on how easy travel between the two words will be)
[03:53:17] <WizardryDragon> The mindset really (at the start at least, before the player establishes themselves) is going to be more or less "Yeah, you're some sort of fancy champion of Virtue, I bet that's really nice. Keep it to yourself."
[03:53:38] <WizardryDragon> For various reasons
[03:54:36] <WizardryDragon> Virtues Hold for example, has been besieged for a while. The warriors that fight there fight everyday, and failure's not an option, so they're hardly pushovers. So if you go around saying youre somesort of "Avatar", they're just going to think you're boastful :P
[03:54:45] <Marzo> And I would even suggest that the Avatar should lose points in Humility (and maybe others) if he/she tries to proselityse too much
[03:55:12] <WizardryDragon> He will, when all the Karma code is said and done.
[03:55:19] <WizardryDragon> (Or she, as is appropriate)
[03:55:42] <WizardryDragon> (Establishign valor karma is going to be a pain in somewheres unpleasant, though...)
[03:56:09] <Marzo> Given the tense of your reply, I assume I don't need to explain the reasoning behind the loss of Humility
[03:56:21] <WizardryDragon> Nup
[03:56:37] <WizardryDragon> Honestly, some of thats going to happen -
[03:56:49] <Marzo> Valor *is* going to be hard
[03:57:00] <WizardryDragon> The Avatar would be dishonest, for example, if they played down their abilities to be more "humble" after all
[03:57:12] <WizardryDragon> But being boastful is going to get you some Humility loss, for sure.
[03:58:24] <Marzo> Hm. Some aspects of Compassion are going to be hard too
[03:58:40] <WizardryDragon> One thing I liked in Ultima and was pretty big for the time was the interactions between party members -
[03:58:54] * Marzo thinks of the Compassion you gained in U4 for letting non-evil creatures flee instead of hunting them down to extinction
[03:59:13] <WizardryDragon> That your party members actually wanted to talk to each other and not just you was a pretty big thing back then :P
[03:59:21] <Marzo> Aye
[03:59:51] <WizardryDragon> Would be interesting to have some little subplots there. I imagine the Neverwinter Nights addicts would probably want romance options, too >.>
[04:00:06] <WizardryDragon> (Though it _would_ be nice for the Avatar to have a genuine romance, for once...)
[04:00:14] <Marzo> Baldur's Gate 2 addicts too
[04:00:37] <Marzo> But as Bioware proved, writing a good romance is hard
[04:00:44] <WizardryDragon> Bioware just has a thing for romance plots. They should write Harlequin romance novels.
[04:01:29] * Marzo remembers a Baldur's Gate 2 review that tore down the romances to pieces and show just how awful they actually were
[04:01:40] <Marzo> s/show/showed
[04:01:44] <WizardryDragon> I definetely intend to give the Avatar more options that "cheesy platanoic relationship with shrinekeeper lady" and "whores in Bucaneer's Den" though
[04:01:51] <WizardryDragon> s/that/than
[04:02:22] <WizardryDragon> (Real life romance can be pretty cheesy and awful at times too, though, in fairness)
[04:02:33] <Marzo> Or crazy horny ice mage
[04:02:43] <WizardryDragon> Hee
[04:02:59] <WizardryDragon> It was pretty keeping with the SI storytelling though, wasn't it?
[04:03:22] <Marzo> Aye
[04:03:43] <WizardryDragon> A vain lady of Beauty thats a figurehead, a horny sorceress, a mad wizard that surrounds himself with frankenstein-like creations, a necromancer communing with the dead, the clan warriors of Monitor ...
[04:03:58] <WizardryDragon> To some degree, it seemed like "Lets see how many fantasy cliches we can stuff in there!"
[04:04:07] <Marzo> Hehe
[04:04:35] <WizardryDragon> Though in fairness its hard to come up with things that seem genuinely original with the saturation of the RPG market these days.
[04:04:44] <WizardryDragon> Compared to say, when U7 first came oujt
[04:04:59] <Marzo> Not to mention the cannibal monsters against which the warrion clan fights
[04:05:06] <WizardryDragon> Hehe
[04:05:08] <Marzo> s/warrion/warrior
[04:05:34] <WizardryDragon> I was pretty disappointed with Frigidazzi.
[04:06:06] <Marzo> In what ways?
[04:06:25] <WizardryDragon> That moment more than anything summed up SI to a T, though. Some flashy beginnings, cheesy dialogue in the middle, and the OH CRAP WE HAVE TO HAVE AN ENDING NOW QUICK LETS TOSS SOMETHING IN THERE end.
[04:06:27] <WizardryDragon> :P
[04:07:09] <WizardryDragon> At least they did better than Bethdesa, though...
[04:07:19] * Marzo suddenly thinks of resurrecting Lands of the Dark Unknown with some egyptian-themed stuff and amazons to complete the full fantasy cliche set
[04:07:36] <WizardryDragon> Lol
[04:07:39] <WizardryDragon> Be my guest
[04:07:45] <WizardryDragon> TFLs taken how long now?
[04:07:46] <WizardryDragon> XP
[04:07:54] <Marzo> Hehe
[04:08:12] <Marzo> It would be fun to make walls of egyptian hieroglyphs, though
[04:08:12] * WizardryDragon will probably tool with that some when TFL is done, if he's not sick of Exult by then, but that's far off :P
[04:08:27] <WizardryDragon> I always liked the serpent ruins for that reason
[04:08:30] <WizardryDragon> With the snake sign
[04:08:39] <Marzo> Aye
[04:08:58] <Marzo> Hm
[04:09:13] <Marzo> There is probably room for something to that effect somewhere in TFL
[04:09:21] <Marzo> Some mysterious ancient ruins
[04:09:22] <WizardryDragon> I thought that was actually really clever, though - the serpent iconography - taking a sign that is, in Ultima, associated with Lord British for some apparent reason - and giving it a new and entirely different meaning in SI.
[04:09:33] <Marzo> Aye
[04:09:59] <Marzo> A thought
[04:10:13] <WizardryDragon> Im going to have a spot somewheres with some very sparse and probably hidden ophidian ruins, as a bit of a throwback (or allusion?) to Serpent Isle, but its not going to be prevalent.
[04:10:28] <Marzo> I am thinking of proposing that we store initgame.dat in expanded form in CVS
[04:11:02] <WizardryDragon> I thought about having old ruins where the U1 cities used to be ... but when you think how long its been ... and that the lands been pretty wartorn ... I have to wonder if theyd still really be there.
[04:11:23] <Marzo> Given that it is a zip file, it would be rather easy to piece it back together for the snapshots
[04:11:27] <WizardryDragon> And you tool with that much more than I do (initgame, that is) - so just use your best judgement as to what's easier for you.
[04:12:13] <Marzo> initgame.dat stores the NPCs, objects everywhere and everything that is used to build gamedat
[04:12:47] <WizardryDragon> I know - what Im saying is that since youve primarialy been the one that has edited it, Ill leave it up to you what you prefer to work with :)
[04:12:58] <Marzo> When you save the map, ES forces the save of all changed u7ifix files, saves the game and compresses gamedat into initgame.dat
[04:13:04] <WizardryDragon> I'm pretty indifferent myself, so long as it doesn't break anything.
[04:13:36] <Marzo> What would happen, basically, is that it would allow easier concurrent editing of the game map
[04:13:57] <WizardryDragon> Well,
[04:14:21] <WizardryDragon> Unless Im off base, it means that edit conflicts would only occur if you were editing in the same superchunk
[04:14:26] <WizardryDragon> (As opposed to the same map)
[04:14:26] <Marzo> As long as chunks directly aren't modified (u7map file), more than one person could add objects to different areas of the map
[04:14:55] <WizardryDragon> (Whoever named them chunks, incidentally, probably had a giggle)
[04:14:56] <Marzo> Currently, even editing different maps lead to conflicts
[04:15:00] <WizardryDragon> Aye.
[04:15:42] <WizardryDragon> Anywho -
[04:15:58] <Marzo> There would still be limits (such as only one person could add/edit/remove NPCs and schedules), but map editing would proceed more smoothly
[04:16:06] <WizardryDragon> If it works best for you without breaking anything, go for it. I can work it either way.
[04:17:16] <WizardryDragon> In the foreseeable future, Ill probably be finalising the "geography" of the TFL map - though the cities and all the non-statics will still need added of course.
[04:17:44] <Marzo> With a simple few tools in CVS (to compress and extract zip files) and a couple of scripts (bat and sh scripts, say), it would be along the lines of run this before you commit" and "run this before making a snapshot"
[04:19:14] <WizardryDragon> Yep
[04:19:29] <WizardryDragon> Honestly, as long as I have the scripts and I dont have to write them, Im good :)
[04:20:47] <Marzo> Hehe
[04:21:10] <Marzo> Another thought, that is going to be a lot of work
[04:21:21] <Marzo> I am thinking of suggesting a move to SVN
[04:22:18] <Marzo> (but that can wait for the future, I am just tossing the idea)
[04:23:03] <WizardryDragon> Eh
[04:23:10] <WizardryDragon> Thats not particularly neccesary
[04:23:12] <WizardryDragon> IMO
[04:24:34] <Marzo> Anyways, I am going to bed now (01:30 here)
[04:24:45] <WizardryDragon> 1224 here
[04:25:01] <Marzo> (fine, I rounded up a little)
[04:25:09] <WizardryDragon> I may or may not be around tomorrow night, but later in the week I should be good
[04:25:20] <Marzo> k
[04:25:28] <WizardryDragon> If I dont drink myself into a Dupre-like stupor after how hard works been lately :P
[04:25:32] <Marzo> I will expect you when I see you, then
[04:25:45] <WizardryDragon> "Sleep well, Avatar"
[04:25:56] * Marzo wonders if anyone but Dupre can drink that much and remain alive
[04:26:02] <Marzo> Good night
[04:26:08] <-- Marzo has left IRC ("Marzo vanishes suddenly.")
[04:27:08] <WizardryDragon> If you dont hear from me after a few days time, the answer is "no".
[04:27:13] <-- WizardryDragon has left IRC ("Zzzzz")
[17:12:13] --> Marzo has joined #tfl
[17:12:13] --- ChanServ gives voice to Marzo
[17:22:15] --- Marzo is now known as Marzo_away