#tfl@irc.freenode.net logs for 1 Sep 2006 (GMT)

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[00:23:23] <wizardrydragon> Ive commited the latest map changes to CVS in case anyone cares :)
[00:23:37] <Crysta> wish that meant somethin to me.. lol
[00:23:43] <wizardrydragon> lol
[00:24:07] <Crysta> cause i DO wanna check em out :|
[00:24:13] <wizardrydragon> lol
[00:25:53] <wizardrydragon> It means if yhou can figure out this page: http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=161162 you dont ever have to wait for me to make a snapshot release again :)
[00:26:10] <Crysta> i know what it MEANS
[00:26:22] <Crysta> it means i cant do a damn thing until you make another snapshot :|
[00:26:29] <wizardrydragon> Mmkay then/
[00:27:51] <Crysta> >_>;
[00:27:59] <wizardrydragon> <_<;
[01:57:54] <Marzo> Back
[01:58:44] <wizardrydragon> wb
[01:58:47] <Marzo> And no, I don't think it would be *too* difficult to make u7chunks merge the differences like vga files
[01:58:52] <Marzo> Was watching a movie
[01:59:32] <Marzo> But I dread the colateral effects (i.e., bugs) that would be introduced in the proccess
[02:00:16] <wizardrydragon> The collateral effects of the change or the movie?
[02:00:17] <wizardrydragon> :)
[02:00:25] <Marzo> :-)
[02:00:45] <wizardrydragon> hehe
[02:00:49] <Marzo> Funny you should ask
[02:01:14] <Marzo> Considering I was watching 'The Butterfly Effect', the question is pertinent either way :-)
[02:01:31] <wizardrydragon> Lol :)
[02:02:28] <wizardrydragon> Regarding the spell system code,
[02:02:48] <wizardrydragon> I was wondering, is it possible to set what reagent costs are for spells, or is that hardcoded into exult?
[02:03:05] <Marzo> It is in the to-do list
[02:03:15] <wizardrydragon> So hardcoded, then? :)
[02:03:41] <Marzo> Although in the usecode casting system I wrote, the costs can be changed to anything you like
[02:03:56] <wizardrydragon> Thats what I was wondering - if that was possible.
[02:04:05] <Marzo> It is just that casting from the avatar's ordinary spellbook will use the hardcoded values
[02:04:15] <wizardrydragon> Because I am considering implementing new spells, but I need to know how to set reagent costs
[02:05:03] <Marzo> It is in 'src/spells/npc_spells.uc', function 'getSpellReagents'
[02:05:43] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[02:05:49] <Marzo> For now, it has space only for the eight 'standard' britannian reagents, but there is nothing that prevents the system from being extended to use more reagents -- as long as all are the same shape
[02:05:52] <wizardrydragon> Another lookup table? :P
[02:05:57] <Marzo> Yep
[02:06:28] <wizardrydragon> We should consider having usecode able to reference external data files eventually :)
[02:06:42] <Marzo> True
[02:06:53] <Marzo> But it could get messy...
[02:07:01] <wizardrydragon> Hence "eventually" :)
[02:07:11] <Marzo> I was also thinking about adding a better way to do lookup tables
[02:07:24] <Marzo> Without having to use a function for it, anyway
[02:07:31] <wizardrydragon> Indeed
[02:08:04] <wizardrydragon> Im lost on a better way to do it, though :)
[02:08:15] <wizardrydragon> Hmm
[02:08:33] <wizardrydragon> The avatars spellbook currently just uses the original intrinsic, correct?
[02:08:48] <Marzo> Nope
[02:08:53] <wizardrydragon> Oh?
[02:09:02] <Marzo> It is completely hardcoded
[02:09:06] <wizardrydragon> Ah. ouch.
[02:09:18] <wizardrydragon> I was going to say, overriding the original intrinsic would be messy but possible.
[02:09:21] <Marzo> From the moment you double-click the spellbook to open it until the moment you cast the spell
[02:09:42] <Marzo> Correction: until the moment *after* you cast the spell
[02:09:49] <wizardrydragon> Hmm.
[02:09:58] <Marzo> Even the usecode functions that get called are hard-coded
[02:10:11] <wizardrydragon> So we'd have to code an entire new object then, I suppose, that would reference the spell system.
[02:10:19] <wizardrydragon> For the Avatar to use it.
[02:10:51] <Marzo> One of the things I have planned down the line is to add a 'gump manager' of sorts which would allow the creation of arbitrary gumps
[02:11:18] <Marzo> The spellbook could then be overriden through this system
[02:11:45] <wizardrydragon> Oh? Please ellaborate.
[02:12:10] <Marzo> Which replies a question you asked the other day: Yes I *did* dig a deep enough grave with the de-hard-coding :-)
[02:12:33] <wizardrydragon> LOL
[02:12:59] <Marzo> In this gump manager, one could create buttons with programmed appearance and behaviour in a script-like language
[02:13:05] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[02:13:38] <Marzo> Gumps would still be game specific, but this script language could be used to create the spellbook, as well as the jawbone -- or even SI's paperdolls
[02:13:59] <Marzo> Essentially, it would completely replace the current gump system with a script-driven engine
[02:14:24] <wizardrydragon> That would be very cool.
[02:14:42] <Marzo> And it is one of the things I have been dreading the most too :-)
[02:15:17] <Marzo> If you take a look at the amount of data hard-coded to make gumps, you'd think I was insane to be thinking about doing this...
[02:15:25] <wizardrydragon> Isnt that almost alwas the case, though?
[02:15:31] <Marzo> the first 'you' should be a 'you'd'
[02:15:33] <wizardrydragon> The coolest things are always the hardest ones :P
[02:16:07] <Marzo> And it is why my to-do list would be enough to go to the moon and back if I did not write it so succintly :-)
[02:16:27] <wizardrydragon> Hehe
[02:18:04] <Marzo> And regarding the script system: I have some three or four text files which I started writing regarding different proposals for the gump scripts
[02:18:15] <wizardrydragon> Interesting.
[02:18:32] <Marzo> The format is of messages which I was going to send to the Exult General list for discussion, but which I never sent
[02:19:17] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[02:19:24] <Marzo> One of the proposals was to use xml -- which would virtually require having ES edit them
[02:19:46] <wizardrydragon> Heh
[02:21:17] <Marzo> About usecode lookups; how does this sound:
[02:22:06] <Marzo> You begin a lookup table with a function-like header: 'lookup SpellReagents (var circle, var spell)'
[02:22:52] <Marzo> Then, in the body of the 'function', each entry is in the form '(circle:spell)==ret;'
[02:23:48] <Marzo> 'ret' is what you want to return for 'circle', 'spell'
[02:23:53] <wizardrydragon> ret being the variable?
[02:24:02] <wizardrydragon> Ah.
[02:24:12] <Marzo> Extend with colons (sp?) for more variables
[02:24:28] <wizardrydragon> And the the body being in braces I imagine.
[02:24:34] <Marzo> Yes
[02:24:35] <wizardrydragon> (and you spelled that correctly)
[02:24:47] <Marzo> Thanks
[02:26:17] <Marzo> Of course, UCC would likely compile it the exact same way as the getSpellReagent function I have wrote, but it could be more convenient to write this way
[02:26:24] <Marzo> *written
[02:26:33] <wizardrydragon> Indeed
[02:26:35] <wizardrydragon> And more clear
[02:26:56] <Marzo> The 'more clear' is debatable
[02:28:16] <wizardrydragon> Well it would be to me at least :P
[02:29:32] <Marzo> :-)
[02:30:25] <Marzo> I must also poke Jeff to learn what exactly are his plans for UCC classes
[02:30:38] <wizardrydragon> I shall assist in this poking.
[02:31:11] <Marzo> Because I have several ideas which would make them extremelly useful for hard-core usecoding :-)
[02:31:24] <wizardrydragon> :D
[02:31:43] <wizardrydragon> I have a few ideas how they'd be useful for redoing the economy system
[02:32:05] <Marzo> For example, custom classes which wrap around the functionality of different classes of objects
[02:32:26] <Marzo> For example, an 'npc' class, a more generic ''game_object' class, and so forth
[02:32:40] <wizardrydragon> Indeed.
[02:33:05] <wizardrydragon> It would make inheritance possible, which would greatly help organize coding.
[02:33:13] <Marzo> With a generic 'create' function; e.g., 'create(var shape, var frame, var pos)'
[02:34:22] <Marzo> I don't know if inheritance is something Jeff is planning, but it really would be useful
[02:35:22] <wizardrydragon> It would be. Immensely
[02:37:13] <wizardrydragon> Making it a bit more object oriented is the shift Im hoping for
[02:37:23] <Marzo> Indeed
[02:37:28] <wizardrydragon> Have classes with properties, that can be inherited
[02:37:41] <wizardrydragon> Would make many lookup tables unnecessary :)
[02:37:44] <Marzo> I have been considering proposing a 'UCC++' branch of UCC for some time now
[02:38:09] <Marzo> Although I have enough on my plate for, I don't know, the next few decades :-)
[02:38:17] <Marzo> Indeed
[02:41:24] <wizardrydragon> Actor -> PC or NPC -> player, party_member, npc, guard, monster, animal -> etc
[02:41:36] <wizardrydragon> Spell -> spell_circle -> spells_of_that_circle
[02:41:42] <wizardrydragon> and so on.
[02:42:50] <Marzo> Even more: Object->Actor->NPC
[02:44:07] <Marzo> Another thing I remembered which is going to the todo list: there really should be a way to conditional parts in a script
[02:44:33] <wizardrydragon> How do you mean?
[02:44:57] <Marzo> For example, executing a portion of a script only if a certain condition is met
[02:45:14] <wizardrydragon> Isn't that what IF is for? o_O
[02:45:33] <Marzo> It can't be used inside script blocks
[02:45:59] <Marzo> What I mean is this: take a look at 'spellTremor' in 'src/spells/sixth_circle.uc'
[02:46:33] <Marzo> There is a part where I have to revert to 'execute_usecode_array' in order to reproduce the spell
[02:46:37] <wizardrydragon> AH
[02:46:39] <wizardrydragon> I get it
[02:46:52] <wizardrydragon> I thought by script you just meant usecode scripts, I misunderstood
[02:47:21] <wizardrydragon> Can you not end the script and then IF() the conditional part, though?
[02:47:48] <Crysta> ....
[02:47:54] <Marzo> It would be a different, unrelated script which would likely overwrite the old one
[02:47:59] <Marzo> Hi, Crysta
[02:48:21] <wizardrydragon> Howso Marzo?
[02:48:25] <Crysta> ....
[02:48:33] <Crysta> i hate... the EMs.. in UO...
[02:48:49] <Marzo> Unless the scripts had 'nohalt', the latter script would delete the first
[02:48:54] <wizardrydragon> Crysta: What happened with them/involving them?
[02:48:58] <Crysta> i want.. to KILL them.. or at least get the dumbasses replaced
[02:49:15] <Marzo> ?log
[02:49:15] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/tfllog.php
[02:49:19] <wizardrydragon> Ah. Shit. Im going to hasve to rewrite something then ... ^_^;
[02:49:22] <Crysta> Glamdring, the head EM, is still showing a complete lack of intelligence
[02:49:40] <wizardrydragon> Umm, hows that new though, Crysta?
[02:49:46] <Crysta> we had a fishing contest about two years ago
[02:49:50] <Crysta> it was very fun
[02:50:08] <Crysta> we all got special fishing poles to commemorate the event.. special hats to the winners
[02:50:12] <Crysta> tonight.. another one
[02:50:19] <Crysta> EXACT same prizes/gifts
[02:50:23] <Crysta> no change at all
[02:50:28] <wizardrydragon> Ew.
[02:50:32] <Crysta> now.. this wouldnt be a problem
[02:50:34] <Crysta> but
[02:50:38] <Crysta> i mean same NAME too
[02:50:49] <Crysta> and i come to find out this is actually the THIRD contest
[02:51:07] <Crysta> there are over 400 of those fishing poles now
[02:51:09] <wizardrydragon> So at this point it may as well be a normal fishing pole :|
[02:51:13] <Crysta> and i have two that look exactly the same
[02:51:15] <wizardrydragon> That ... sucks.
[02:51:33] <Crysta> and he never even THOUGHT about it before
[02:51:37] * wizardrydragon has a gift for understatements of monumental proportions.
[02:51:44] <Crysta> he says he "will think about it for the next one"
[02:52:32] <wizardrydragon> Well, by now the damage's already been done. You think he'd do something to make them unique for each contest or something.
[02:54:26] <wizardrydragon> You could always prod a Seer to see if they can do anything (pun unintended)
[02:55:28] <Crysta> ...
[02:55:40] <wizardrydragon> I dont think they can, but ynever know.
[02:55:46] <Crysta> not been any Seers since just before 3rd Dawn, in case you forget
[02:55:53] <wizardrydragon> Ah. Shit. Forgot.
[02:55:58] <wizardrydragon> Sorry. ^_^;
[02:56:05] <Crysta> all i can do is go yell about it on stratics
[02:56:10] <Crysta> and NO ONE has listened before
[02:56:18] <Crysta> EVERY event of his has been like this or WORSE
[02:56:41] <Crysta> hundreds of people have complained and asked for him to be fired or replaced
[02:56:45] <Crysta> and no one has listened
[02:56:49] <wizardrydragon> Welcome to EA
[02:56:54] <Marzo> lol
[02:57:32] <wizardrydragon> Ever notice the antagonists in Black Gate are Elizabeth and Abraham? :P
[02:58:04] <Marzo> There has been somethings about U7 and on that kept me thinking lately
[02:58:33] <Marzo> Even as far as U9 -- which generally is disregarded -- which make sense in the light of the history of Origin
[02:58:45] <Marzo> Or kind of make sense, anyway
[02:59:00] <wizardrydragon> Indeed.
[02:59:23] <wizardrydragon> Also, notice the cube, tetrahedon, and sphere. Compare to old Electronic Arts logo.
[02:59:45] <Marzo> Lets see: Origin was self-described as 'creating worlds'; EA bought franchises and choked the fun out of them
[03:00:08] <wizardrydragon> :D
[03:00:15] <Marzo> In a sense, EA can be thought of as the Guardian -- if he enters Britannia, all is lost
[03:00:25] <wizardrydragon> Indeed.
[03:00:29] <Crysta> both of you shut up and go back to normal conversation or im never getting on IRC again
[03:00:30] <Marzo> Meaning if EA acquires Origin, Ultima is doomed
[03:00:34] <Marzo> lol
[03:01:34] <Marzo> The whole point of U7 is to prevent the guardian from conquering Britannia -- just as Origin was fighting against being bought by EA
[03:01:39] <Crysta> ...
[03:01:43] <Crysta> right.. no more IRC
[03:01:45] <-- Crysta has left #TFL ()
[03:01:51] * wizardrydragon sighs.
[03:02:03] <Marzo> Whoops... Crysta was serious 8-||
[03:02:11] <wizardrydragon> Eh.
[03:02:40] <wizardrydragon> I didn't say it, but she can be a bit moody, and when shes upset over UO stuff wasn't the best time to mess with her :P
[03:03:00] <Marzo> I didn't know... but I shouldn
[03:03:09] <Marzo> 't have pushed
[03:03:43] <wizardrydragon> In either event, give her some time.
[03:03:50] <Marzo> Indeed
[03:03:53] <Marzo> Might be best
[03:04:28] <wizardrydragon> So ... umm ... back to how Origin is evil.
[03:04:34] <Marzo> lol
[03:04:59] <Marzo> In U7, the avatar eventually stops the guardian to come through the black gate and saves Britannia
[03:05:11] <Marzo> But in real life, EA bought Origin
[03:05:33] <wizardrydragon> so the Avatar ends up in Pagan - the world of the Guardian
[03:05:45] <Marzo> Thus, in SI, we see a world that was ravaged by imbalance storms and is doomed to be destroyed unless the avatar does something
[03:05:58] <wizardrydragon> Ah, I skipped ahead a bit :)
[03:06:12] <Marzo> Similarly, Origin was starting to feel the pressure of being owned by EA, and the inevitable change that would come from that
[03:07:01] <Marzo> When the avatar was dropped in Pagan, it could be symbolic of Origin being put under the stiffling corporative world of EA
[03:07:23] <Marzo> It was a land of gloom and despair, which the avatar wanted to escape from at any cost
[03:07:39] <Marzo> Enter U9
[03:07:57] <wizardrydragon> Bentic wasn't very gloomy.
[03:08:01] <wizardrydragon> But anyways, continue.
[03:08:18] <Marzo> The Guardian rules over Britannia mostly unchallenged
[03:08:38] <Marzo> In the end, the Avatar casts armageddon to destroy Britannia
[03:09:15] <wizardrydragon> Poof!
[03:09:22] <Marzo> And considering that Richard Garriot himself said that U9 was a real Ultima -- it could be that he felt that the only way to save Britannia from EA was to destroy it
[03:09:49] <Marzo> End the series right there and then, before EA had a chance to truly destroy it
[03:10:16] <Marzo> Not that it halped -- there is UO for example -- but the 'core' series had ended
[03:10:21] <Marzo> *helped
[03:10:48] <wizardrydragon> Well if you ask me, UO can be fun, but its really not worth paying for anymore.
[03:10:51] <Marzo> So, does this make sense? At all :-)
[03:10:58] <wizardrydragon> And yes, perfect sense.
[03:11:06] <wizardrydragon> Probably reading into it too much, but oh well ;)
[03:11:09] <Marzo> Precisely my point about EA being the Guardian
[03:11:13] <Marzo> :-)
[03:12:20] <wizardrydragon> lol
[03:12:44] --> Crysta has joined #TFL
[03:12:50] <Marzo> WB
[03:12:50] <Crysta> .....
[03:13:03] <wizardrydragon> hi
[03:13:11] <Crysta> shush please... sorry.. when i get mad about somethin, i get MAD
[03:13:24] <wizardrydragon> Its okay.
[03:13:33] <Marzo> I must also apologize for insisting in the subject
[03:13:47] <Crysta> nono.. its all me :p
[03:14:38] <wizardrydragon> Aaaack.
[03:14:47] <Crysta> ?
[03:15:00] <wizardrydragon> Im not sure what I did, but my shin suddenly hurt like hell.
[03:15:08] <Crysta> o_o;
[03:15:16] <Marzo> lol
[03:15:18] <wizardrydragon> Hense the "Aaack"
[03:15:35] <wizardrydragon> Anyways its better now so please dont mind me :P
[03:15:43] <Marzo> :-)
[03:16:00] * wizardrydragon eats a cookie. Mm, comfort food.
[03:17:33] <wizardrydragon> A question, Crysta, if you don't mind
[03:17:38] <Crysta> k
[03:18:09] <wizardrydragon> The candle sprites that are fixed, were the spent/lit candles broken too? Did you check
[03:18:10] <wizardrydragon> ?
[03:18:26] <Crysta> hm.. whcih ones?
[03:18:28] <Crysta> you mean the others?
[03:18:39] <wizardrydragon> Yes.
[03:18:49] <Crysta> all of the others looked good to me
[03:18:55] <wizardrydragon> Okay, good.
[03:19:00] <Crysta> those were the problem ones.. especially the spent candelabra
[03:19:02] <wizardrydragon> I just wasnt sure if you checked :P
[03:19:08] <Crysta> i did :p
[03:19:21] <wizardrydragon> I was just putting in the fixed graphics now so I wondered :P
[03:19:41] <Crysta> yeah but you need to have the game point to the other frames for the white dragon ones
[03:19:57] <Crysta> and make sure that when you do you dont mess up that OTHER candle
[03:19:57] <wizardrydragon> Im not sure how to do that, though ^_^;
[03:20:03] <Crysta> Marzo
[03:20:03] <Crysta> ?
[03:20:31] <Marzo> What is the question?
[03:20:38] <wizardrydragon> Umm, Id check to see if there was any sharp objects around Marzo before suggesting anything that could add to hisa todo list
[03:20:44] <Crysta> lol
[03:20:51] <Crysta> well we dunno how big this one would be
[03:20:56] <Marzo> There are many :-)
[03:21:01] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[03:21:03] <Crysta> know in SI there are those special candles at the whtie dragon castle?
[03:21:09] <Crysta> i men the lamps and candelabras
[03:21:14] <Crysta> that dont have other frames
[03:21:16] <Marzo> There are?
[03:21:24] <Crysta> if you try to get a barkeep to fix them they crash the game
[03:21:35] <Crysta> yeah.. and they show up from teleport storms sometimes
[03:21:43] <Crysta> they both only have a spent frame
[03:22:05] <Crysta> one sec.. getting my image link
[03:22:27] <Crysta> in addition, theres one type of candle that doesnt HAVE a spent frame, as well
[03:22:38] <Crysta> so it just burns forever
[03:22:49] <Crysta> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/crystaelf/Imagqqwfe6.png
[03:23:02] <Crysta> i drew the other frames, but i dunno how hard it would be to get them in and working
[03:23:16] <Marzo> IIRC, it is all usecode-controlled
[03:23:21] <Crysta> oh.. and the spent normal candelabra s there because there was an error in the original
[03:23:42] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: really? I thought Exult had it hardcoded?
[03:23:47] <Crysta> i guess tha tmeans just put in the fixed spent ones for now wiz
[03:24:03] * wizardrydragon jumps up and down with anticipation of finding something thats NOT hardcoded
[03:24:08] <Crysta> i think i mentioned it for the SI fixes before :P
[03:24:11] <Marzo> lol
[03:24:12] <Crysta> wait
[03:24:16] <Crysta> that means it could be fixed?
[03:24:27] <Crysta> without having to de=-hardcode it
[03:24:45] <Marzo> And quite easily, if my memory isn't tricking me :-)
[03:24:49] <wizardrydragon> HYou just have to figure out which intrinsic to override, if thats the case
[03:24:50] <Crysta> !!!!!
[03:24:53] <Crysta> please do then!
[03:25:05] <wizardrydragon> Finding the intrinsic can be tricky if you dont know what intrinisc it is though
[03:25:08] <Marzo> What shape # they are?
[03:25:20] <Crysta> uh.. one sec.. ill get you te numbers for each
[03:25:37] <Crysta> there are three shapes.. one for unlit, one for lit, one for spent
[03:25:39] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: is the intrinsic to check for spent candles known?
[03:26:13] <Marzo> There is a couple of unknown intrinsics used in light sources, but their purpose is unknown
[03:26:22] <Marzo> Which means that Exult doesn not need them
[03:26:45] <wizardrydragon> is there one known that checks when a lightsource is spent, however?
[03:26:52] <Marzo> They don't have any function I could discern
[03:27:02] <Marzo> It is all based on shape/quality
[03:27:27] <Marzo> Except for torches; torches use the same shape for spent/unlit, but different quality
[03:27:38] <wizardrydragon> Im not sure I get you
[03:27:39] <Crysta> unlit is shape 336
[03:27:50] <Crysta> lit is shape 338
[03:27:55] <Crysta> and spent is shape...
[03:28:04] <Marzo> The 'lit' shapes are a shape which has the 'light source' property
[03:28:09] <Crysta> 997
[03:28:27] <Marzo> Its quality is decremented hourly by scripts
[03:28:48] <Crysta> frame `16 of shapes 336 and 338 are te one that has no spent frame
[03:28:54] <Marzo> When quality reaches zero, the lit shape is replaced by the spent shape, with same frame
[03:29:22] <Crysta> 16 and 17 of shape 997 are the ones that dont have lit or unlit
[03:30:20] <Marzo> The unlit/unspent shape has a quality, which is carried over to the lit shape; when you double-click the unlit shape, it starts the hourly decrement and sets the shape to the lit shape
[03:30:31] <Crysta> like i said the teleport storms leave them sometimes.. so you could get one without knowing they would crash your game
[03:30:46] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: Ah, that makes sense
[03:30:53] <Crysta> so the lit one for that one candle has it incredibly high or even unlimited?
[03:31:02] <Marzo> There is also usecode used when you sleep to decrement the quality
[03:31:11] <Crysta> intereting
[03:31:14] <Crysta> *resting
[03:31:38] <Marzo> There is probably a condition somewhere which makes it last indefinitely
[03:31:59] <Crysta> :)
[03:31:59] <wizardrydragon> Probably.
[03:32:12] * wizardrydragon watches his sims burn down their house. *sigh*
[03:32:21] <Crysta> i dotn even remember where that one appears, so it doesnt really matter
[03:32:21] <Marzo> Torches work similar; but since they use the same shape for unlit as they do for spent, they must use quality to differentiate
[03:32:35] <Crysta> it might just do that for that one candle
[03:32:40] <Crysta> to be honest, i dont really remember
[03:32:47] <Marzo> Unlit torches with quality 255 are considered to be spent
[03:33:16] <wizardrydragon> Marzo, can hyou pass -1 to quaslity without problems? (probably not)
[03:34:00] <Crysta> finally! i bring upa fixable problem!
[03:34:05] <Crysta> *celebrates*
[03:34:23] <Marzo> No, it wraps around to 255 (IIRC)
[03:34:31] <wizardrydragon> Damn
[03:34:47] <wizardrydragon> I thought maybe pass -1 for unconsumable light sources
[03:35:06] <wizardrydragon> Thought: how does the game handle the everlasting goblet?
[03:35:17] <Marzo> Usecode
[03:35:27] <wizardrydragon> Er, I know THAT much, silly.
[03:36:01] <wizardrydragon> I imagine the way it handles a nonconsumable candle and a nonconsumble food source are similar
[03:36:02] <Marzo> It works almost exactly like normal food; the only difference is that it is singled out in that it is not deleted
[03:37:00] <Crysta> if you need one of the candles to mess around with in game, just go to white dragon and grab a white lantern and white candelabra
[03:39:04] <Marzo> Looking at the Exult source, I think that quality -1 becomes far more than 255; but I think only qualities up to 255 are saved
[03:41:14] <wizardrydragon> So then what happens, it defaults to 255?
[03:41:34] <Marzo> I don't know; still looking for that part of the code :-)
[03:43:12] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[03:43:40] <Marzo> Considering that I am also looking at the usecode for light sources, it could take a while
[03:44:08] <wizardrydragon> ^_^;
[03:44:58] <Marzo> But I can confirm that there is no checking of frames when a light source is double-clicked
[03:45:07] <wizardrydragon> Odd
[03:45:46] <Crysta> it might just automatically go for the same frame in the proper shape
[03:46:29] <wizardrydragon> That would make sense
[03:46:41] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: this is usecode right?
[03:46:52] <Marzo> What I mean is: there is no real reason why shape 336 would not become lit and eventually spent
[03:46:58] <wizardrydragon> We should add assertions to UCC too, if it doesnt already have them
[03:46:59] <Marzo> Yes, dumped directly from SI
[03:47:06] <Crysta> hm
[03:47:12] <Marzo> I don't think there are
[03:47:27] <wizardrydragon> Then we can assert(exists(shape, frame)) or somesuch
[03:48:15] <Marzo> But the light source remains lit indefinitely if it is not in the hands of a party NPC
[03:48:45] <wizardrydragon> Howso?
[03:48:48] <Marzo> Slight correction: if it is not in the hands of a party NPC when it is *lit*
[03:49:21] <Marzo> If you have an unlit light source and you lit it while it is in the ground, it will last indefinitely
[03:49:45] <Crysta> well thats not supposed to happen
[03:49:45] <Marzo> Unless you pick it up and place in the hands of a party member
[03:49:54] <Crysta> meaning Exult doesnt work right
[03:50:03] <Crysta> in the originals they would wear out over time no matter what
[03:50:09] <wizardrydragon> meaning I have no clue what marzos saying at this point
[03:50:17] <Marzo> lol
[03:50:33] * wizardrydragon prods Marzo with the claymore of clarity.
[03:50:42] <Crysta> the barkeeps wouldnt have had a "replace spent lightsource" thing in their routines if they didnt wear out normally
[03:50:44] <wizardrydragon> I demand thee to make more sense!
[03:52:30] <Marzo> Clarifying: take an unspent light source. If it is in the ground when you lit it, and you never pick it up, it will last forever. If it is in the hands of a party member when you lit it, or if you pick it up and give to a party member, it will have a limited lifetime
[03:52:47] <Crysta> what about ones that start the game in bars
[03:52:50] <Marzo> Does that help?
[03:52:55] <Crysta> like i said, in the original those would wear out
[03:53:06] <Marzo> In Exult, they will last forever
[03:53:22] <Crysta> then thats something that needs fixin
[03:53:24] <Crysta> lokl
[03:53:27] <wizardrydragon> Is that how it functions now, you're saying? I am confused
[03:53:48] <Crysta> no, youre right
[03:53:51] <Marzo> I will check to see if they do indeed last indefinitely in the original
[03:53:55] <Crysta> thats how it works now in Exult is what hes sayin
[03:53:56] * wizardrydragon pokes Marzo repeatedly with the claymore of clarity!
[03:54:10] <Marzo> *dies from massive bleeding*
[03:54:12] <Crysta> i remember sitting in bars when they ran out before
[03:54:52] <Marzo> But I think we've estabilished in the Phorum that your memories aren't very reliable :-)
[03:55:22] <Crysta> this one theyu are.. its how i found out the white dragon ones crash your game
[03:55:26] <wizardrydragon> Well *I* remember that too. SO HA! Ha I say!
[03:55:38] <Crysta> i was sitting around and saw a barkeep replace an empty lantern
[03:55:49] <Crysta> so i thought.. hmm.. i should try that with the white dragon ones"
[03:55:54] <Crysta> and lo, my game crashed
[03:56:12] <Marzo> Did you sleep near the light source?
[03:56:21] <Crysta> that i dont remember
[03:56:23] <Crysta> :x
[03:56:36] <Marzo> Because sleeping is a whole different can of worms
[03:56:56] <Crysta> hmm...
[03:57:04] <Crysta> well tha ti dont remember.. im sorry
[03:57:09] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: it would expire normally if you slept
[03:57:14] <Crysta> anyway.. at the very least dont you think it SHOULD work that way?
[03:57:28] <Crysta> kinda silly having em last forever
[03:57:37] <wizardrydragon> Crysta: exactly!
[03:57:41] <Crysta> especially as barkeeps refuel them
[03:57:42] <Marzo> There is explicit code cheking for light sources/torches when you sleep
[03:58:11] <Marzo> And if you try sleeping in Exult, all but sconces will be spent in the morniing
[03:58:16] <Marzo> *morning
[03:58:32] <wizardrydragon> Which would be expiring normally, Marzo. :P
[03:58:34] <Marzo> (not necessarily spent, but you get the picture)
[03:59:27] <Marzo> No; as I said, it is the *sleeping code* which makes candles expire -- unless they are in the hands of party members, in which case they expire eventually
[04:00:12] <Marzo> In any case, I have set up a test in DOSBox
[04:00:30] <Marzo> One light source in hand, and one in the ground, both lit at the same time
[04:00:46] <Marzo> When the results are in, I will let you know
[04:01:06] <Crysta> were both created new?
[04:01:23] <Marzo> I picked them randomly; but it is a good point
[04:01:33] <wizardrydragon> Umm, not to rain on the parade, but Crysta has a perfectly valid point: even if thehy dont function that way in U7 proper, but SHOULDNT they?
[04:01:36] <Marzo> I will create 2 new light sources with known duration
[04:02:03] <Marzo> I am just trying to estabilish that there isn't a bug in Exult in this regard :-)
[04:02:26] <Crysta> which is fine by me :p
[04:02:38] <Crysta> we can decide what to do additionally AFTER that
[04:03:14] <Marzo> There, two identical candles, one in hand and one in ground, both lit at the same time and both with quality 5
[04:03:27] <Marzo> indeed
[04:03:57] <Crysta> *plays Pac-Land in the meantime*
[04:04:11] <Marzo> Candle in hand: spent; candle in ground: burning brightly
[04:04:27] <Crysta> give te one on ground more time
[04:04:31] <Crysta> please.. to be sure
[04:04:44] <Marzo> I am
[04:04:45] * wizardrydragon watches his sims start another house fire in the meantime.
[04:04:48] <Crysta> k :)
[04:04:52] <Marzo> lol
[04:07:09] <Marzo> In any case, the first thing I would change would be to make torches work like all other light sources do: have a different shape for spent/unlit
[04:07:17] <Crysta> right
[04:07:24] <Crysta> and anything else would come after
[04:07:26] <Crysta> anyway
[04:07:33] <Marzo> That would allow better checking of in-hand light sources when sleeping
[04:07:50] <Marzo> (currently, they don't expire)
[04:07:52] <Crysta> is it possible to add te other shapes for those lightsources anyway and just have them work liek te rest of the stuff does now?
[04:08:05] <Marzo> Yes
[04:08:30] <Crysta> id say thats more than good enough :)
[04:08:32] <Marzo> It would possibly require some map changes in SI to make the correct light sources appear in the correct spots
[04:08:40] <Crysta> well.. actually
[04:08:50] <Crysta> that would only be a problem concerning tha tone candle
[04:08:59] <Crysta> which i dont even remember where it shows
[04:09:14] <Marzo> That is what U7Wizard is for :-)
[04:09:17] <Crysta> te small yellow candle with a pink flame
[04:10:56] <Crysta> the others should start out spent anyway
[04:11:06] <Crysta> they HAVe been sitting in that castle for a DAMN long time
[04:11:07] <Crysta> lol
[04:12:07] <Marzo> Shape 338 frame 16 appears in two spots: (0x93f, 0x01a) and (0x93a, 0x01a)
[04:12:28] <Crysta> let me guess.. both on sunrise isle?
[04:12:37] <Marzo> Yep
[04:12:45] <Crysta> cant believe i got that right
[04:12:45] <Crysta> lol
[04:12:51] <Crysta> i guess that explains it
[04:12:57] <Marzo> On the table where you get the eye from the serpent
[04:12:58] <Crysta> they dont show up at a poitn where it matters
[04:13:08] <Crysta> *point
[04:13:39] <Marzo> Shape 997 frame 16 is nowhere to be found
[04:13:59] <Crysta> uh...
[04:14:12] <Crysta> give me a minute
[04:14:19] <Crysta> i mgihta gotten the shape number wrong
[04:14:34] <Marzo> Shape 997 frame 17 appears in 15 places
[04:14:59] <Marzo> I checked them
[04:15:09] <Crysta> OH
[04:15:10] <Crysta> sorry
[04:15:11] <Crysta> sotty
[04:15:14] <Crysta> my mistake
[04:15:20] <Crysta> i forgot it counts 0 as a frame number
[04:15:26] <Crysta> 17 and 18 are the right ones
[04:15:47] <Crysta> 16 is one for a different type runnign out, so of course it doesnt show normally
[04:15:47] <Crysta> lol
[04:15:52] <Marzo> No, it is frames 16 and 17
[04:15:59] <Crysta> oh
[04:16:02] <Crysta> well... wha?
[04:16:09] <Marzo> The 18th frame is frame 17
[04:16:12] <Crysta> i know damn well that 16 shows in the white dragon castle
[04:16:20] <Crysta> unless its a different shape entirely for that ONE candle
[04:16:24] <Marzo> Let me re-check
[04:16:42] <Crysta> shape 8997, shape 16
[04:16:47] <Crysta> all over the castle
[04:16:51] <Crysta> just checked myself
[04:16:56] <Crysta> *997
[04:17:13] <Marzo> You are correct; I had typed the frame in decimal for shape 997 frame 16 while U7Wizard requires hex
[04:19:15] <Crysta> ahhh
[04:19:15] <Crysta> :P
[04:19:15] <Marzo> It appears in *several* locations
[04:19:15] <Crysta> yup.. in teh castle
[04:19:15] <Crysta> at least.. 20?
[04:19:15] <Crysta> shows up in the main area and in the basement
[04:19:15] <Marzo> 32 places to be exact
[04:19:15] <Crysta> lol
[04:19:15] <Crysta> more than i could have guessed
[04:19:15] <Marzo> (0x20 = 32)
[04:19:15] <Crysta> hm... i just had a thought
[04:19:15] <Crysta> there has to be something that says what framesare switched between
[04:19:15] <Crysta> er
[04:19:15] <Crysta> shapes
[04:19:15] <Crysta> i say this because both of those frames on 997 cause a crash
[04:19:16] <Marzo> It would thus be far easier to replace the shapes in sunrise isle
[04:19:18] <Crysta> wherease if they just looked at te same frame, one would change it to that one candle
[04:19:33] <Crysta> but it doesnt.. it crashes
[04:19:51] <Marzo> It does use the same frame
[04:20:07] <Marzo> But it is strange that it crashes for both of them
[04:20:12] <Crysta> then how come fame 16 crashes from 997 when a barkeep "refills" it
[04:20:19] <Crysta> that one i sthe standing lantern
[04:20:28] <Crysta> and is, in fact, te first of th etwo i tried it on way back when
[04:20:32] <Crysta> loved the look of it
[04:20:32] <Crysta> :p
[04:21:08] <Marzo> Where is there a barkeep that refills 997 frame 16?
[04:21:34] * wizardrydragon feels completely left out. :P
[04:21:43] <Crysta> well in the original, placing any type of spent lightsource in a room with a barkeep would make them randomly refill it like any that was worn out on its own from sleep
[04:21:55] <Crysta> so it was a matter of waiting for it to walk over and refill it
[04:22:24] <Marzo> Oh
[04:22:39] <Crysta> like how they walk up to plates :p
[04:22:51] <Crysta> was ufns etting an extra one to get food
[04:22:51] <Crysta> lol
[04:22:54] <Marzo> By the way, companions are complaining about hunger but the candle in the ground is still on
[04:22:55] <Crysta> *FUN SETTING
[04:23:20] <Crysta> i hope im making sense
[04:23:40] <wizardrydragon> I wish I made cents
[04:23:45] <Marzo> Just tested shape 997 frame 16, and the tavern keeper turned into a candle
[04:23:47] <wizardrydragon> But Id prefer dollars
[04:23:51] <wizardrydragon> Wait
[04:23:56] <Crysta> well.. thats new
[04:23:57] <wizardrydragon> d the tavern keeper turned into a candle O_O
[04:24:06] <Crysta> must have been an Exult fix
[04:24:08] <Marzo> Into shape 336 frame 16
[04:24:08] <wizardrydragon> I know thats not what he meant.
[04:24:10] <wizardrydragon> But still
[04:24:11] <wizardrydragon> XD
[04:24:13] <Marzo> No, in DOSBox
[04:24:18] <Crysta> o_O
[04:24:20] <Crysta> the hell?
[04:24:24] <Crysta> it always crashed for me
[04:24:25] <wizardrydragon> Tavern keepers arent supposed to turn into candles, Marzo.
[04:24:29] <Crysta> ...
[04:24:32] <Crysta> shush wiz
[04:24:37] <Marzo> lol
[04:24:46] <Crysta> well anyway.. that makes things easy
[04:24:49] <wizardrydragon> Pfft. Fine then, Ill be quiet
[04:24:53] <Crysta> all we have to do is put in the extra frames
[04:24:56] <Marzo> Yep
[04:25:01] <Crysta> and switch the sunrise isle candles for new frame ones
[04:25:07] <Marzo> Yep
[04:25:10] <Crysta> YAY!
[04:25:22] <Marzo> Quite trivial if I can say so
[04:26:05] <Crysta> lol
[04:26:06] <Crysta> well
[04:26:12] <Crysta> its one of those annoying minor things
[04:26:13] <Crysta> :P
[04:26:16] <Marzo> If I try shape 997 frame 17 it will likely crash the game
[04:26:24] <Crysta> that migh tbe what i remembered
[04:26:31] <Marzo> Therefore, I will wait until Iolo dies from hunger first :-)
[04:26:36] <Crysta> still.. having neither make a crash would be nice
[04:26:45] <Marzo> Agreed
[04:26:58] <Crysta> also.. i cant seem to get a barkeep to refill a candle in exult
[04:27:14] <Marzo> Schedule-related issue
[04:27:37] <Crysta> ah.. k :)
[04:27:42] <Marzo> And thanks, it is now your turn to be on the receiving end of the to-do list wrath :-)
[04:27:53] <Crysta> .. yeup.. guess so.. XD
[04:30:04] <Marzo> By the way: shape 336/338 frame 16 turn into shape 997 frame 16 as expected
[04:30:11] <Marzo> When spent, that is
[04:30:17] <Crysta> interesting
[04:30:26] <Marzo> candle becomes candlestick
[04:30:33] <Crysta> i never tried wearing it down, to be honest
[04:31:07] <Marzo> Companions are complaining of hunger incessantly and candle in ground is still burning merrily
[04:31:21] <Crysta> XS
[04:31:23] <Crysta> *XD
[04:31:42] <Marzo> lol
[04:32:33] <Marzo> Wizardry: How many compassion points will the avatar lose for starving companions? :-)
[04:32:46] <Crysta> lol
[04:32:57] <Crysta> wouldnt that be compassion AND sacrifice?
[04:33:02] <Crysta> oh.. wait
[04:33:11] <Crysta> no.. they would GAIN sacrifice for not eating
[04:33:15] <Marzo> I'd say that the *companions* gain sacrifice...
[04:33:17] <Marzo> lol
[04:33:31] <Crysta> fasting to gain sacrifice
[04:33:42] <Crysta> that would be an interesting concept if it only works to a certain point
[04:33:50] <Marzo> It is a fast way to gain sacrifice (pun intended)
[04:33:55] <Crysta> lol
[04:35:01] <Marzo> What about an avatar stuffing his face while the companions starve; how many points of compassion does he lose :-)
[04:36:02] <Crysta> Thou hast lost an eigth!
[04:36:09] <Marzo> lol
[04:36:12] <Crysta> i so spelled that wrong
[04:38:34] <Marzo> The candle is approaching its 48-hour birthday; it should have been extinguised a long time ago by now
[04:38:42] <Crysta> lol
[04:39:14] <Marzo> I think it is fair to assume it won't
[04:39:23] <Crysta> yah
[04:39:24] * wizardrydragon is a strong believe in gaining sacrifice by feeding his companions to the fire.
[04:39:41] <Marzo> lol
[04:39:47] <Crysta> LOL
[04:39:49] <Marzo> Wrong kind of sacrifice, though :-)
[04:40:05] * wizardrydragon also believes having UW1ish stuff eventually will raise interesting questions, such as: is it wrong to sacrifice a companion to a starving ghoul?
[04:40:11] <Marzo> Although that fire must surely be starving :-)
[04:40:28] <Marzo> lol
[04:46:15] <Crysta> so.. uh.. how are these SI fixes being impelemented?
[04:46:40] <Marzo> Slowly :-)
[04:46:57] <Crysta> no.. i mean.. where would one such as me be getting them when they're in
[04:47:04] <Crysta> as part of the SI Fixes?
[04:47:15] <Marzo> No idea for now
[04:47:18] <Crysta> lol
[04:47:35] <Crysta> cause i do have those other sprite fixes for SI
[04:47:40] <Marzo> They are included in the Exult source, but it requires manual compilation of the usecode
[04:48:22] <Marzo> There will possibly be snapshots of the mods after 1.4 is released
[04:48:51] <Marzo> Heh. Shamino has passed out several times from hunger, and the candle is still burning
[04:49:06] <Marzo> It seems that he can't take damage fast enough to die from starvation
[04:49:35] <Crysta> lol
[04:49:40] <Crysta> that should be fixed as well :p
[04:49:53] <Marzo> That is hard-coded for now
[04:50:00] <Crysta> dang
[04:50:15] <Marzo> And I don't know if it happens in Exult
[04:50:53] <Crysta> lol
[04:52:07] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: if you go too slowly about it, I might just get done integrating SI into TFL before you get to SIFixes snaphsots :P
[04:52:21] <Marzo> lol
[04:52:40] <Crysta> lol
[04:52:50] <Crysta> what about adding in that extra enemy to SI
[04:53:13] <Marzo> What extra enemy?
[04:53:20] <Crysta> oh.. thought i had said
[04:53:29] <Crysta> the Shasrajah to Silver Seed
[04:53:31] <Crysta> snake me
[04:53:38] <Crysta> its mentioned in a book int he keep library
[04:53:40] <Crysta> *men
[04:54:02] <Marzo> Oh
[04:54:08] <Marzo> It would be nice
[04:54:17] <Marzo> It would also require brand new sprites
[04:54:26] <Crysta> *ahem*
[04:54:46] <Crysta> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/crystaelf/Imageergsre20.gif
[04:54:51] <Marzo> Perhaps I should have made explicit that I was hinting at it, yes :-)
[04:54:57] <Crysta> when i read the book i immediately thought of anti-dupre
[04:55:22] <Crysta> kinda makes sense they would drop the ape thing last minute an duse something they already had going
[04:55:28] <Marzo> The head looks good, but I think the body looks strange
[04:55:42] <Crysta> well.. i tried a few bodies
[04:55:48] <Marzo> I mean: the head is too big for the body
[04:55:56] <Crysta> .. so is Anti-Dupre
[04:55:57] <Crysta> s
[04:56:12] <Marzo> Yes, but he is a drunken abomination :-)
[04:56:27] <Crysta> well yeah.. but these are CHAOS abominiations
[04:56:37] <Crysta> supposed ot be their match for the automatons of the order forces
[04:57:06] <Crysta> i do see what you mean
[04:57:10] <Crysta> but this IS Ultima
[04:57:12] <Crysta> :P
[04:57:20] <Marzo> For a snake-people, I think they are missing tails, or claws
[04:57:45] <Crysta> well.. i could always try using the lizardman body from the savage empire remake
[04:57:54] <Marzo> Indeed
[04:58:05] <Crysta> i do like how it is now though :p
[04:58:05] <Marzo> Although I haven't seen it
[04:58:10] <Marzo> :-)
[04:58:14] <Crysta> its probably worse than these
[04:58:14] <Crysta> lol
[04:58:18] <Marzo> lol
[04:58:24] <Crysta> and far less complete as well
[04:59:42] <Marzo> OK, got bored with the experiment
[04:59:53] <Crysta> ?
[04:59:55] <Crysta> oh
[04:59:56] <Crysta> lol
[04:59:57] <Marzo> Candle was burning brightly after ~60 hours
[05:00:18] <Marzo> Companions were passing out from starvation
[05:00:21] <Crysta> lol
[05:00:49] <Marzo> Well, after this one I am going to bed
[05:01:07] <Crysta> uh.. where is the lizardman village at in SE?
[05:01:13] <Crysta> its been a while and i cant remember
[05:01:14] <Marzo> And I still haven't touched the new LB sprites...
[05:01:18] <Crysta> lol
[05:01:28] <Marzo> I must admit that I never played SE
[05:01:30] <Marzo> Or MD
[05:01:40] <Marzo> Even though I have them both
[05:01:50] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: just wait, Im going to commit a shapes.vga with all of Crystas changes by tomorrow morning
[05:02:03] <Marzo> I think I am waiting for nuvie to get to a better stage of development
[05:02:35] <Crysta> ive never gotten nuvie working
[05:02:37] <Crysta> lol
[05:03:05] <Marzo> I'll wait; but take note that I like to generate my shapes files from ipack scripts, so I'll likely make my own version anyway :-)
[05:03:16] <wizardrydragon> Marzo, that's what Im doing now.
[05:03:35] <wizardrydragon> Ive got nuvie working; I have it compiled from source, however.
[05:03:57] <Marzo> I also have it running; downloaded the ready version and installed it
[05:04:14] <Crysta> heh
[05:04:17] <Crysta> it work well?
[05:04:20] <wizardrydragon> The development version is a bit further along. Not much, but somewhat :)
[05:04:26] <Marzo> But it is still not very good to play the games -- it is still too incomplete
[05:04:41] <wizardrydragon> It's not designed to run MD or SE currently :P
[05:04:50] <wizardrydragon> So course its not good to play them :P
[05:04:51] <Marzo> Bingo :-)
[05:05:01] <Crysta> i need a map of SE ..<
[05:05:04] <wizardrydragon> Although MD I dont have issues with
[05:05:05] <Crysta> *>.<
[05:05:24] <wizardrydragon> Other than the fact that you never run out of oxygen
[05:05:32] <wizardrydragon> and missile weapons dont currently work
[05:05:42] <Crysta> meaning you cant win the game?
[05:05:44] <Crysta> lol
[05:06:02] <wizardrydragon> Nuvie treats MD missile weapons as thrown weapons, which is good for a few laughs
[05:06:24] <wizardrydragon> I fixed that in my personal version though :P
[05:07:03] <Marzo> There are SE maps here: http://www.geocities.com/xenerkes/En/main.htm
[05:07:19] <Marzo> In the left frame, look for 'maps' then look for SE
[05:07:20] <Crysta> marked ones?
[05:07:41] <Marzo> Dunno; they are still opening
[05:08:20] <Marzo> There are also those from HRUMP: http://www.dengler.net/xedragon/hrump/index.htm
[05:08:26] <Marzo> These have markings on them
[05:08:40] <wizardrydragon> I have a cloth SE map :D
[05:08:52] <Crysta> lucky
[05:09:02] <Marzo> Indeed
[05:09:06] <Crysta> THERE we go
[05:09:10] * wizardrydragon looks around shitily and hides it.
[05:09:13] <Crysta> the Sakkhra are the Lizardmen
[05:09:17] <wizardrydragon> *shiftily
[05:09:21] <Crysta> southwest corner.. got it
[05:09:32] <wizardrydragon> Crysta: that'll kill two birds with one stone
[05:09:44] <wizardrydragon> UW1esque stuff needs lizardmen too
[05:10:04] <Crysta> i know.. but thise would be ripping sprites form an SNES game
[05:11:27] <Marzo> Well, off to bed; good night to ye both, fellow travellers!
[05:11:45] * wizardrydragon waves at Marzo
[05:11:57] <-- Marzo has left IRC ("Marzo vanishes suddenly.")
[05:12:16] <wizardrydragon> Crysta: well even just a retouch of the anti-dupre could work
[05:12:26] <Crysta> hm...
[05:15:10] <wizardrydragon> A thought: try recolouring the yurel body, changing the tail to a lizardlike one, and putting the anti-dupre head on it
[05:15:35] <Crysta> one sec.. i'll show you the SE one
[05:15:47] <Crysta> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/crystaelf/Imagesd4.gif
[05:16:29] <wizardrydragon> Ehhh ... thats not the greastest, IMO
[05:16:40] <Crysta> i know.. but its a good palce to start
[05:16:45] <Crysta> *place
[05:17:33] <Crysta> of course, i jsut need to see what i can do :P
[05:17:37] <Crysta> anyway, im off as well
[05:18:00] <Crysta> ill work on it in the mornin g:)
[05:18:15] <Crysta> oo.. maybe
[05:18:30] <Crysta> shanging the plate armor to green scales and adding a tail woul dbe enough
[05:18:39] <Crysta> and leaving the chestplate
[05:18:44] <wizardrydragon> Take care
[05:18:45] <Crysta> with t red cover.. hm..
[05:18:47] <wizardrydragon> I might try something
[05:18:48] <Crysta> thanks :D
[05:18:50] <Crysta> ok
[05:18:55] <Crysta> and i will too, obviously
[05:19:02] <wizardrydragon> No gaurantees I wont just fall asleep first though :D
[05:19:03] <Crysta> guess we can compare them tomorrow :P
[05:19:07] <Crysta> LOL
[05:19:13] <wizardrydragon> Sleep well
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[16:44:49] <Marzo> ?log
[16:44:49] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/tfllog.php
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[18:01:11] <Crysta> yo
[18:01:18] <Marzo> Hi
[18:01:30] <Crysta> another boring day :p
[18:02:48] <Crysta> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/crystaelf/Imagesdf7.png how does that look
[18:07:53] <Marzo> Much better then re-colored anti-dupre
[18:08:19] <Marzo> Although the arms seem a little stumpy
[18:08:50] <Marzo> Maybe also move the head up by 1 pixel
[18:09:22] <Marzo> Or maybe to the right by 1 pixel
[18:19:23] <Crysta> hm..
[18:20:01] <Crysta> i think the head looks better at the spot its at
[18:20:43] <Crysta> movin tit right throws it off balance
[18:21:09] <Crysta> moving it up makes the neck look stretched
[18:21:29] <Crysta> the arms... eh.. i'll work it out later :P
[18:21:34] <Marzo> :-)
[18:21:59] <Crysta> the body is taken straight from the winged gargolye
[18:22:03] <Crysta> *goyle
[18:22:18] <Crysta> so the arms are no stumpier than its arms :p
[18:22:22] <Marzo> I wouldn't have guessed
[18:23:08] <Crysta> that the body was te gargoyle or that the arms were that stumpy to start with
[18:23:26] <Marzo> That it was the gargoyle body
[18:23:31] <Crysta> ah :P
[18:23:56] <Marzo> Looking at both side by size, I think is the size of the head which makes the arms look stumpy in comparison
[18:23:57] <Crysta> i figured i should look for something humanoid, but larger
[18:24:16] <Crysta> so i grabbed the winged gargoyle
[18:24:18] <Crysta> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/crystaelf/Imagwfee8.png
[18:24:44] <Marzo> It is indeed the head which is causing the trouble
[18:24:52] <Crysta> yeah
[18:24:56] <Marzo> Err... 'apparent stumpyness'
[18:25:08] <Crysta> yeah.. but itll look fine animating im sure
[18:25:18] <Marzo> Guess so
[18:26:05] <Crysta> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/crystaelf/Imagwegwee9.png
[18:26:49] <Marzo> The walking frames look alright
[18:27:05] <Crysta> its all in the angle :P
[18:27:48] <Marzo> *wonders how Crysta will do the frames facing up*
[18:27:51] <Crysta> best part is i dont need to do the normal attacking frames.. just need to redo the extra ones i made
[18:28:02] <Crysta> the same way.. i'll cut the wings off and redraw
[18:28:10] <Crysta> (where needed)
[18:28:31] <Crysta> ill borrow some from the Daemon graphics Wiz made if i have to
[18:28:34] <Crysta> *wis
[18:28:40] <Crysta> or is it .. oh whatever
[18:29:38] <Marzo> One thing I'd like to use one day is the flying gargoyle sprite
[18:29:46] <Crysta> yeah
[18:30:26] <Crysta> i suggested a town surrounded by mountains with t flying ones attacking over the mountain ranges.. but theyd still need to be put into use
[18:31:18] <Crysta> which im sure has some problems
[18:31:36] <Marzo> I also thought of having the gargoyle on the Keyring mod be flying during the initial cutscene and land
[18:31:46] <Marzo> I don't think there will be many issues
[18:31:57] <Crysta> ah
[18:31:58] <Crysta> hm
[18:32:21] <Marzo> There are flying enemies in the came already
[18:32:40] <Marzo> *game
[18:32:50] <Crysta> yeah.. forgot that
[18:32:52] <Crysta> or at least
[18:32:53] <Crysta> some of them
[18:33:28] <Marzo> Think harpies
[18:33:40] <Crysta> yeah.. or those nightmare creatures
[18:34:04] <Marzo> And bats.
[18:34:27] <Marzo> So I really think there wouldn't be many problems in getting flying gargoyles to work
[18:34:35] <Crysta> :)
[18:35:32] <Marzo> And with careful sprite placement, we could even have a squad of gargoyles carry the party somewhere
[18:35:49] <Crysta> ooo
[18:36:08] <Marzo> Will do a mockup to see if it is possible
[18:36:30] <Crysta> k
[18:39:11] <Crysta> i wonder if anything in the SE remake uses that gargoyle body as a bas
[18:39:11] <Crysta> e
[18:39:26] <Crysta> i think ill check that beforei continue
[18:39:39] <Crysta> if anything else does i might have an easier time with the north frames
[18:43:58] <Marzo> Uploading pic
[18:45:08] <Marzo> How does it look: http://www.geocities.com/mg_rpg_online/FlyingGargs.png
[18:45:59] <Crysta> lol
[18:46:02] <Crysta> i like it
[18:46:10] <Crysta> odd, but interesting
[18:46:20] <Marzo> (BTW, the Iolo casting sprites are mine)
[18:46:48] <Crysta> :D
[18:47:53] <Marzo> Had to make them also for Dupre, Shamino, Julia, Jaana and Mariah
[18:50:59] <Crysta> they look good? :P
[18:51:44] <Marzo> I'll let you be the judge
[18:51:52] <Marzo> I will post the links shortly
[18:52:45] <Crysta> kay
[18:53:22] <Marzo> Dupre:
[18:53:23] <Marzo> http://exult.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/exult/exult/content/bgkeyring/src/graphics/Dupre_14.png?revision=1.1
[18:53:26] <Marzo> http://exult.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/exult/exult/content/bgkeyring/src/graphics/Dupre_15.png?revision=1.1
[18:53:30] <Marzo> http://exult.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/exult/exult/content/bgkeyring/src/graphics/Dupre_30.png?revision=1.1
[18:53:34] <Marzo> http://exult.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/exult/exult/content/bgkeyring/src/graphics/Dupre_31.png?revision=1.1
[18:54:11] <Marzo> You've seen Iolo's in the flying garg mockup
[18:54:16] <Crysta> looks good to me :)
[18:54:27] <Crysta> you dont have to show the others.. heh
[18:54:27] <Marzo> Jaana:
[18:54:33] <Crysta> im sure they look good too :)
[18:54:44] <Marzo> k
[18:55:04] <Marzo> :-)
[19:23:39] <Crysta> OOO.. looks like i have help after all on those fames
[19:23:56] <Crysta> it seems Boydon's body type is almost the same as the winged gargoyles
[19:24:37] <Crysta> anyway.. im off for a while
[19:24:40] <Crysta> see ya later
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[19:29:48] <wizardrydragon> hi
[19:32:26] <wizardrydragon> ?log
[19:32:26] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/tfllog.php
[19:38:06] <Marzo> Hi
[19:38:23] <wizardrydragon> Hows it going
[19:38:35] <wizardrydragon> I see something actually happened while I was gone for once :)
[19:40:16] <wizardrydragon> Not to mke more work for you, but shouldn't Mariah have her own shape where she's one of the original companions? (I was thinking the same thing with katrina as well)
[19:45:59] <wizardrydragon> By the way (while I'm thinking of it) do you have a compiled version of the ES with mass export working? I would greatly appreciate it if you could put it up or DCC it to me if you do.
[19:46:44] <wizardrydragon> I think I might play around with shapes to see if I can come up with something unique for the companions in question, but I'd rather avoid the tediousness of exporting everyh single frame by hand if I can avoid it.
[19:59:43] <wizardrydragon> and another question when you read through all of this: how hard would it be to limit certain characters to certain weapons as in u1 through 5?
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[20:18:15] <Crysta> hi again
[20:18:20] <wizardrydragon> howdy
[20:19:35] <Crysta> so.. YOU have anything to show? :p
[20:21:55] <wizardrydragon> Yes and no.
[20:22:05] <wizardrydragon> I do hasve something Im working on, but its not lizardmen
[20:22:26] <Crysta> snake men
[20:22:31] <Crysta> lizardmen com elater
[20:24:22] <wizardrydragon> Urg. You know what I meant
[20:24:49] <Crysta> :P
[20:26:56] <wizardrydragon> Blah, trying to do red hair on a sprite isn't working out as well as I could have hoped
[20:27:41] <Crysta> o.o
[20:29:40] <wizardrydragon> there we go, better
[20:29:50] <wizardrydragon> i hate paint's palleting system >_>
[20:30:04] <wizardrydragon> but im not going to go waste 104 megs of my memory loading photoshop
[20:30:06] <Crysta> lol
[20:30:26] <wizardrydragon> Im playing around with ideas for unique sprites for Mariah, Julia, and Katrina
[20:30:47] <wizardrydragon> completely unneccesary, but I feel that the original companions deserve it :P
[20:31:12] <Crysta> ah :P
[20:31:34] <wizardrydragon> and besides Mariah was the party member I used the most in the old ultimas :P
[20:32:17] <wizardrydragon> course with Mariah it doesnt help that her hair colour keeps changing
[20:32:23] <Crysta> lol
[20:32:51] <wizardrydragon> I decided to give her red hair since theres no one else in britannia who seems to have except dupre
[20:33:04] <wizardrydragon> and laurianna but she doesnt count :P
[20:36:29] <wizardrydragon> hrm
[20:36:39] <wizardrydragon> im not sure how much I like what I came up with though :|
[20:42:13] <Crysta> show us then
[20:42:33] <wizardrydragon> Thats just what I intend to do when Imageshack decides to work
[20:42:37] <Marzo> For Mariah, I used a new shape even though it was the same sprite
[20:42:43] <Marzo> I am back BTW
[20:42:48] <Crysta> wb :p
[20:42:50] <wizardrydragon> lol wb
[20:43:09] <wizardrydragon> that would make replacing the NPC sprite considerably easier at least
[20:43:40] <Marzo> I went along with the same sprite as Sissy Knox did in her page, and that is where the gump comes from originally
[20:43:59] <wizardrydragon> I know :)
[20:44:02] <Marzo> (the gump I asked Crysta to remake)
[20:44:28] <wizardrydragon> http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2596/mariahqz7.png the chest needs some work I think :P
[20:45:00] <Marzo> As for ES: the version up for download should have the mass-export capability
[20:45:17] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: Really? Cool, Ill go grab that then
[20:47:08] <Marzo> You made a recolored version of the SI female monk for Mariah, right?
[20:47:18] <Crysta> mass-export?
[20:47:21] <wizardrydragon> Yes
[20:47:24] <Crysta> you mean what i suggested? o.o
[20:47:33] <Marzo> No, just the frames of a given shape
[20:47:38] <wizardrydragon> Although I'm thinking of transplanting a different head :P
[20:47:40] <Crysta> ah :P
[20:47:46] <Crysta> still.. thats helpful
[20:48:01] <Crysta> imageshack isnt working
[20:48:05] <Marzo> The hair really looks odd
[20:48:06] <wizardrydragon> Oooh, modmanagement in open game. Didnt notice that before :D
[20:48:15] <Crysta> i dont know why anyone uses imageshack
[20:48:20] <Crysta> use photobucket or something
[20:48:29] <Marzo> *boasts that he pays attention to every detail*
[20:48:33] <wizardrydragon> Crysta: becuse Im too lazy to upload it to www.u7feudallands.com
[20:48:38] <Crysta> ok.. worked now
[20:48:56] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: trying to do her hair red didnt work out so well
[20:49:07] <Crysta> hm..
[20:49:12] <Marzo> I noticed :-)
[20:49:15] <Crysta> mind if i look at it myself?
[20:49:21] <Crysta> i mean mess with it
[20:49:30] <wizardrydragon> Go for it, though I am too :)
[20:49:32] <Marzo> There is also the fact that her in-game portrait isn't that of a redhead
[20:49:38] <wizardrydragon> I know,
[20:49:44] <Crysta> lol
[20:49:48] <wizardrydragon> her hair changes colour every game
[20:49:55] <Marzo> True
[20:50:05] <wizardrydragon> I decided to go with red since its more unique
[20:50:06] <wizardrydragon> :P
[20:50:37] <wizardrydragon> I might either clean up her hair or use another sprites head
[20:50:47] <Marzo> Considering that Laurianna is also a redhead... and that there are people interested in a BG version of my redhead patch... not so much :-)
[20:51:09] <Marzo> Enter the 'library of body parts' I proposed the other day
[20:51:10] <wizardrydragon> Seeing as the magic unstablility seemed to make her a bit of a OCD clean freak :P
[20:51:25] <Marzo> lol
[20:53:00] <Marzo> By the way, what do you think about using the flying gargoyle sprite?
[20:53:30] <wizardrydragon> The only sprite I remember that has red hair from the original BG/SI is the "woman" sprite used for one of the SI shopkeeps, correct me if Im wrong
[20:55:01] <Marzo> She is identical to the female entertainer in BG
[20:55:10] <Marzo> And is the sprite I am using for Mariah
[20:55:21] <wizardrydragon> Right.
[20:55:24] <Marzo> (maybe recolor that sprite instead?)
[20:55:28] <wizardrydragon> That's the only one though, right?
[20:55:42] <Marzo> Yes
[20:55:43] <wizardrydragon> (I prefer the robe, but I might steal the head from that sprite :) )
[20:55:56] <Marzo> :-)
[20:56:43] <Marzo> Another sprite that could work is the 'noble' sprite
[20:57:00] <wizardrydragon> There we go!
[20:57:04] <wizardrydragon> That looks much better
[20:57:33] <wizardrydragon> I (well Crysta) already stole the noble sprite for one of the TFL characters
[20:57:52] <Marzo> Just recolor it again :-)
[20:58:31] <wizardrydragon> :P
[20:58:39] <Crysta> lol
[20:58:44] <wizardrydragon> I actually much like the sprite now that the hair looks right.
[20:58:51] <Marzo> Besides, it is difficult to say that Crysta's sprite is based in the noble one
[20:58:52] <wizardrydragon> Just have to fix the chest now :P
[20:59:04] <Crysta> it is?
[20:59:08] <Crysta> i thought it was obvious
[20:59:16] <wizardrydragon> Me too.
[20:59:19] <wizardrydragon> http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/7710/mariahna0.png
[20:59:22] <wizardrydragon> Howsat?
[20:59:34] * wizardrydragon has to go grab dinner, he'll be back in a while.
[20:59:51] <Crysta> wait
[20:59:51] <Marzo> You two already knew it, so that may be why you think it was obvious
[20:59:55] <Crysta> dun go yet
[21:00:07] <Crysta> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/crystaelf/Shasrajah.gif
[21:00:25] <Crysta> two frames done.. lol.14 left
[21:00:27] <wizardrydragon> lol
[21:00:31] <Marzo> lol
[21:00:36] * wizardrydragon points at his own link :P
[21:00:47] <Crysta> better :P
[21:00:47] <Marzo> Looks much better
[21:00:57] <Marzo> Mind if I steal it when you're done? :-)
[21:01:23] <Crysta> who was that aimed at
[21:01:23] <Marzo> (although it will require a new gump in any case)
[21:01:24] <Crysta> lol
[21:01:33] <Crysta> ah.. wiz
[21:01:36] <Marzo> Yes
[21:01:37] <Crysta> im sure he doesnt mind :P
[21:02:43] <Marzo> Putting side by side, it is not obvious at all that the TFL char was based on the noble sprite
[21:02:58] <Crysta> sho wme side by side.. lol
[21:03:28] <Marzo> Just a sec
[21:03:32] <Crysta> k
[21:08:04] <Marzo> http://www.geocities.com/mg_rpg_online/Nobles.png
[21:08:38] <Crysta> i tihnk i mighta based it off anothe rone
[21:08:47] <Crysta> unless i didnt and dont remember
[21:09:55] <Marzo> I think you used parts of the avatar sprite too
[21:10:31] <Crysta> i think i used the mage from silver seed and one of the female monitor knights
[21:11:17] <Marzo> It is possible
[21:11:17] <Crysta> no.. wait...
[21:11:23] <Crysta> the mage, the noble, and Petra
[21:12:20] <Marzo> By mage you mean Selina?
[21:12:27] <Marzo> (shape 652)
[21:12:46] <Crysta> maybe.. either selina or the mage from the Silver Seed order keep
[21:12:58] <Marzo> k
[21:13:05] <Crysta> i dont remember.. lol..
[21:13:11] <Marzo> lol
[21:14:33] <Marzo> Heh... SI shapes 766 and 888 are nearly identical -- the differences being recoloring and the addition of something in the hair
[21:14:42] <Crysta> lol
[21:15:18] <Marzo> I too am taking a break for a while to grab something to eat
[21:15:22] <Marzo> Be back soon
[21:15:54] <Crysta> k
[22:46:31] <Crysta> after more thought i think i mighta been wrong about t snake men thing.. doesnt really matter as we do still need lizardmen sprites.. but still
[22:49:50] <Crysta> after thinking about it... it really mightve been referring to the wildmen,whcih i didnt think about.
[22:49:55] <Crysta> :\
[23:59:17] * wizardrydragon has returned.