#tfl@irc.freenode.net logs for 3 Sep 2006 (GMT)

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[00:00:02] <wizardrydragon> I hope not :)
[00:00:14] <Marzo> She doesn't
[00:00:21] <Marzo> And looks inquestionably better
[00:00:42] <wizardrydragon> Unquestionably?
[00:00:47] <wizardrydragon> :P
[00:00:57] <Marzo> That too :-)
[00:01:23] <wizardrydragon> lol
[00:08:37] * wizardrydragon prods marzo hoping to see something before he falls asleep from sheer fatigue.
[00:08:48] <Marzo> It is coming :-)
[00:09:22] <wizardrydragon> My sleep period is coming too, and fast :)
[00:09:32] <Marzo> lol
[00:11:05] <Marzo> uploading
[00:11:15] <Marzo> Here: http://www.geocities.com/mg_rpg_online/Mariah.png
[00:11:42] <wizardrydragon> Noice
[00:11:47] <wizardrydragon> Nice, even
[00:11:51] <Marzo> lol
[00:12:08] <Marzo> It is really better without the thing in the hair, right?
[00:12:13] <wizardrydragon> Very!
[00:12:20] <wizardrydragon> Hmm
[00:12:28] <Marzo> What?
[00:13:10] <wizardrydragon> The sleves and chest bit are a nice contrasst white, I just dont like the white skirt. Maybe make that blue on a copy of foraward facing sprite and see how that looks?
[00:23:30] <Marzo> Here: http://www.geocities.com/mg_rpg_online/Mariah_FW.png
[00:24:22] <wizardrydragon> Ooh, I like the blue skirt MUCH better :)
[00:26:12] <Marzo> I wonder what would have been your reaction if I had based the sprite of the SI shape 888...
[00:26:37] <wizardrydragon> 888?
[00:26:52] <Marzo> One of the moonshade mages
[00:26:57] <wizardrydragon> Oh
[00:27:05] <wizardrydragon> That narrows it down :)
[00:27:08] <Crysta> lol
[00:28:26] <Marzo> Columna, more specifically
[00:30:19] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[00:30:23] <wizardrydragon> Ew
[00:30:36] <wizardrydragon> Sorry, I just hate that witch.
[00:30:40] <wizardrydragon> :)
[00:30:41] <Marzo> lol
[00:31:30] <Marzo> Just to be nitpicky: Columna is the *enchantress*; *Rotoluncia* is the witch :-)
[00:32:13] <wizardrydragon> I was thinking more with a b, but Im trying to keep this chat PG-13 :)
[00:32:29] <Marzo> lol
[00:34:16] <Crysta> lol
[00:35:00] <wizardrydragon> but yes, I much prefer it with the bluhe skirt
[00:35:10] * wizardrydragon nods vigourously.
[00:35:45] <Marzo> Out of curiosity: what command makes a line appear line the one you just said (i.e., 'wizardrydragon nods vigourously.')
[00:36:02] <wizardrydragon> Ah! You mean n emote?
[00:36:09] <Marzo> Yes
[00:36:11] <wizardrydragon> Then you want /me does something
[00:36:31] * Crysta is ... uh.. yeah I didn't think this out much...
[00:36:34] * Marzo wants to kill Wizardry because he now has to redo 26 sprites
[00:36:39] <Marzo> :-)
[00:36:50] <wizardrydragon> Have Crysta do it!
[00:36:54] * wizardrydragon ducks.
[00:37:33] <Marzo> :-)
[00:38:17] <Crysta> not today >.>;
[00:38:37] <wizardrydragon> Pfft Ill do it myself if its such a big deal, but I wont like it.
[00:38:50] <Marzo> No, I will do it
[00:39:22] <Marzo> I am just looking for a sprite whose skirt I will use as base
[00:43:56] <wizardrydragon> the entertainer could work
[00:44:12] <Marzo> Skirt is too small
[00:44:15] <wizardrydragon> hmm
[00:44:25] <Marzo> At the pixel level, in any case
[00:44:37] <wizardrydragon> the peasant one any better?
[00:44:44] <Marzo> Nope
[00:44:55] <wizardrydragon> blah
[00:44:57] <wizardrydragon> i dunno then
[00:45:17] <Marzo> I decided to use none, as none were good enough
[00:45:24] <wizardrydragon> lol
[01:03:08] * wizardrydragon wobbles unsteadily towards his fridge to get food.
[01:10:21] <wizardrydragon> Cluck, I say
[01:11:56] <Marzo> Sprite, I say :http://www.geocities.com/mg_rpg_online/Mariah.png
[01:12:10] <wizardrydragon> if (rand == 1) bark = "\"Cluck, I say!\"";
[01:12:18] <Marzo> I know
[01:12:23] <wizardrydragon> :)
[01:12:26] <Marzo> :-)
[01:12:41] <wizardrydragon> I like the sprite, by the way :)
[01:12:47] <Marzo> Which one?
[01:13:16] <Marzo> There are 52 sprites in the image :-)
[01:13:32] <wizardrydragon> Pfft, dont go get semantic on me :P
[01:13:37] <Marzo> lol
[01:14:52] <wizardrydragon> IOLO.say("@I know what thou thinkest: 'Did he fire 60 bolts, or only 57?'@");
[01:14:52] <wizardrydragon> IOLO.say("@Well, to tell thee truthfully, in all this excitement I rather lost track myself.@");
[01:14:52] <wizardrydragon> IOLO.say("@But being as this is a triple crossbow, the most powerful ranged weapon in Britannia, and would blow thine head clean off, thou must ask thyself a question: 'Do I feel lucky?'@");
[01:14:52] <wizardrydragon> IOLO.say("@Well dost thou, punk?@");
[01:15:19] <Marzo> The Q&I triple crossbow
[01:15:28] <wizardrydragon> Indeed :D
[01:15:48] <wizardrydragon> I love the text, too :D
[01:16:20] <Marzo> There is also a funny one (if slightly disturbing :-)) when you double-click a sheep with Shamino and Dupre in the party
[01:16:26] <wizardrydragon> YES!
[01:16:27] <wizardrydragon> lol
[01:16:35] <wizardrydragon> Alun has quite the sense of humour
[01:16:41] <Marzo> indeed
[01:17:09] <Crysta> ?
[01:17:55] <wizardrydragon> if (UI_get_random(10) < 6 && inParty(SHAMINO) && canTalk(SHAMINO))
[01:17:55] <wizardrydragon> {
[01:17:55] <wizardrydragon> delayedBark(SHAMINO, "\"I like sheep.\"", 6);
[01:17:55] <wizardrydragon> if (inParty(DUPRE) && canTalk(DUPRE))
[01:17:55] <wizardrydragon> {
[01:17:56] <wizardrydragon> delayedBark(DUPRE, "\"Aye, I hath heard that about thee!\"", 16);
[01:17:58] <wizardrydragon> delayedBark(SHAMINO, "\"Hey!\"", 26);
[01:18:00] <wizardrydragon> }
[01:18:02] <wizardrydragon> }
[01:18:22] <Crysta> lol
[01:18:28] <wizardrydragon> :D
[01:18:46] <wizardrydragon> lol
[01:18:47] <wizardrydragon> //Sarky bastards
[01:18:47] <wizardrydragon> if (UI_get_random(3) == 1) delayedBark(randomPartyMember(), "\"Don't we have a quest?\"", 35);
[01:20:04] <wizardrydragon> //subtractQuantity(food); //Disabled: it serves no purpose since food never comes in quantities greater than one, and it messes up fresh fish. Use...
[01:20:11] <wizardrydragon> Thsat isnt entirely true, marzo
[01:20:17] <wizardrydragon> you can eat garlic and it has quantities
[01:20:24] <Marzo> True
[01:20:50] <Marzo> (but why would anyone eat oure garlic anyway? it is not like there are vampires in Britannia...)
[01:20:50] <wizardrydragon> Id hate to be starving and decide to eat a clove of garlic to find that all of it is gone afterward!
[01:21:08] <wizardrydragon> But there are in the Serpent Isle!
[01:21:34] <wizardrydragon> and possibly in TFL, I havent gotten as far as monsters yet
[01:21:36] <wizardrydragon> :P
[01:21:37] <Marzo> Given the nutritional value of garlic in U7, you will still be starving afterwards... (IIRC, it is zero)
[01:21:43] <wizardrydragon> it's 1
[01:21:56] <Marzo> It is? Hm. But to be fixed, then
[01:22:02] <Marzo> *But=bug
[01:22:15] <wizardrydragon> Well IDK what it is in Exult
[01:22:18] <wizardrydragon> but it's 1 in u7
[01:22:30] <Marzo> It is usecode controlled
[01:22:59] <wizardrydragon> yes but as weve already discussed, nExsult has several things that are usually usecode hardcoded :)
[01:23:28] <Marzo> Only those that use intrinsics. And books. Or both.
[01:23:30] <Marzo> :-)
[01:23:53] <wizardrydragon> The only thing that was 0 in BG IIRC was Silverleaf
[01:24:02] <wizardrydragon> which was useless when it came to actually being fed
[01:25:06] <wizardrydragon> When I felt like wasting money Id buy some :)
[01:28:28] <Marzo> Food bug fixed
[01:28:38] <Crysta> food bug?
[01:28:44] <wizardrydragon> Marzo:
[01:29:04] <wizardrydragon> couldn;t you just override the nutriotional balue in /src/items/food.uc?
[01:29:10] <wizardrydragon> *nutritional value
[01:29:16] <Marzo> (food bug=in Q&I when you eat garlic, all of it goes away)
[01:29:50] <wizardrydragon> Yeah T_T
[01:29:56] <Crysta> o
[01:30:00] <Marzo> Garlic isn't in that list; it is handled by the reagent usecode
[01:30:04] <wizardrydragon> and TFL, concurrently
[01:30:18] <wizardrydragon> Ah, is it, though? I dont recall that
[01:30:23] <Marzo> (and the newer version of Keyring mod)
[01:31:01] <wizardrydragon> (and also TFL :P)
[01:31:41] <Marzo> It is; function 0x34A:
[01:31:42] <Marzo> if (UI_get_item_frame(item) == 0x0004)
[01:31:44] <wizardrydragon> how'd you fix it?
[01:31:47] <Marzo> Func0813(item, 0x0002, 0x005B);
[01:31:54] <wizardrydragon> just uncomment subtract quantity?
[01:32:03] <wizardrydragon> and comment remove_item?
[01:32:57] <Marzo> Since I am going to be uploading a lot of usecode this weekend, and since I have reorganized the 'Q&I-Q' code extensivelly, don't bother
[01:33:10] <Marzo> (besides, I did it differently)
[01:33:27] <Marzo> if (shapenum == SHAPE_REAGENT)
[01:33:27] <Marzo> subtractQuantity(food);
[01:33:27] <Marzo> else
[01:33:27] <Marzo> food->remove_item();
[01:33:30] <wizardrydragon> by the way
[01:33:38] <wizardrydragon> when I copied and pasted the header for that file
[01:33:56] <wizardrydragon> I forgot to change the file description to properly reflect the file :)
[01:34:15] <Marzo> ?
[01:34:24] <wizardrydragon> food.uc
[01:34:29] <wizardrydragon> check the header :)
[01:35:15] <Marzo> lol
[01:35:24] <wizardrydragon> Might wanna fix that :P
[01:35:35] <Marzo> It is not a problem; I didn't base the code in those files
[01:35:55] <wizardrydragon> Well its not a big problem period, but still :)
[01:35:57] <Marzo> (I used, instead, the original code from the zip file Alun sent me way back)
[01:36:34] <Marzo> What I mean is that it hasn't seeped into the files I am going to commit
[01:36:43] <Marzo> (after I fix the Britannia map)
[01:36:43] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[01:36:53] <wizardrydragon> Make sure that you include a GPL header then!
[01:36:58] <wizardrydragon> :)
[01:36:59] <Marzo> They are there
[01:37:05] <wizardrydragon> Good :)
[01:39:01] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: What, exactly, is wrong with the Britannia map?
[01:39:17] <wizardrydragon> Just the absence of the Keyring mod stuff? Or are there further problems?
[01:39:31] <Marzo> Basically that
[01:39:49] <Marzo> And the NPC #s of Zauriel/Laurianna
[01:39:54] <wizardrydragon> "Basically"? :)
[01:45:23] <Marzo> Yes, I have the gift of understatement. :-)
[01:45:30] <wizardrydragon> :)
[01:46:06] * Marzo hates to admit, but the newest Mariah looks better than the second newest one
[01:46:48] <wizardrydragon> hehe
[02:08:46] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: is there a usecode function thats called when something is equipped?
[02:11:24] <Marzo> If the item's shape is listed in the 'usecode_events' section of the file 'patch/shape_info.txt', then the shape's usecode gets called with event == READIED or event == UNREADIED
[02:11:42] <wizardrydragon> Ew ...
[02:12:20] <wizardrydragon> I want to implement class weapon restrictions
[02:12:23] <Marzo> The file 'shape_info.txt' is contained in Exult.flx as 'shape_info_bg.txt', and available in the Exult source with that same name
[02:12:26] <wizardrydragon> as u4
[02:13:10] * Marzo thinks that if Wizardry Dragon thinks the current way is yucky, he should understand that it was hard-coded before
[02:13:26] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[02:13:27] <Marzo> :-)
[02:14:03] <wizardrydragon> Is there no universal function or action triggered when the READIED event is triggered.
[02:14:10] <wizardrydragon> *?
[02:14:17] <Marzo> No
[02:14:37] <wizardrydragon> Ew.
[02:14:47] <wizardrydragon> Would that be hard to add? ^_^
[02:14:51] <wizardrydragon> &* ^_^;;
[02:14:54] * Marzo thinks that class restrictions are stupid anyway :-)
[02:15:05] <wizardrydragon> I dont want to have to write EACH AND EVERY item code
[02:16:08] <wizardrydragon> Ugg.
[02:16:29] <wizardrydragon> I suppsoe I could write a common function and call it from the overrides.
[02:17:01] <wizardrydragon> but then I'm unsure how I'd call the original function for an item then
[02:17:32] <Marzo> You can use indirect calls
[02:17:50] <wizardrydragon> how?
[02:19:04] <Marzo> Given that the usecode function # for a given object can be obtained by the intrinsic get_usecode_fun, it would be something like this (at least, I think it will work):
[02:19:22] <Marzo> var fun = get_usecode_fun(obj);
[02:19:35] <wizardrydragon> also: are any weapons or armor overriden in your code you'll be committing?
[02:19:40] <Marzo> event = READIED;
[02:19:41] <Marzo> (*fun).original();
[02:20:02] <Marzo> Off the top of my head, only the blacksword
[02:20:08] <wizardrydragon> okay
[02:20:11] <wizardrydragon> hmm
[02:20:16] <Marzo> But I could be wrong
[02:20:26] <wizardrydragon> I wonder if I should hide the Mystic Weapons somewheres
[02:20:32] <Marzo> :-)
[02:20:39] <wizardrydragon> Whatintheheck happened to those after U5, anyways?
[02:20:48] <Marzo> I know that you should give up class restrictions
[02:20:51] <Marzo> :-)
[02:21:21] * Marzo points out that there is no sane reason why any class could not pick up the weapon and practice with it :-)
[02:21:48] <wizardrydragon> Well, you don';t know what I intend to have with it eventually :)
[02:22:08] * Marzo also points out that 'it was that way in U4' is *not* a sane reason :-)
[02:22:37] <wizardrydragon> For now though I was just going to have restrictions on the mage shepherd and tinker since they're non-combat classes essentially
[02:22:58] <wizardrydragon> Well the mage is a combat class in a way, but not in the "stick pointy thing into fleshy thing" kind of way :)
[02:23:06] <Marzo> Which means Katrina will be even more useless as a companion :-)
[02:23:21] <wizardrydragon> Naa
[02:23:45] <wizardrydragon> I was considering a great "fix" for her, but I dont know how much of Exult I'd break doing it :)
[02:24:35] <wizardrydragon> I was going to have it so that when she gains experience, she gains more than ordinary, when she gets training points, she gets more - so she would start out knowing a lot less, but would have more potential to learn and potentially more skill therefore :)
[02:25:57] * wizardrydragon optimistically believes hed only break three quarters of Exult trhying to implement that.
[02:27:34] <wizardrydragon> :)
[02:28:01] <Marzo> It would not be much difficult, actually
[02:28:10] <wizardrydragon> Yay!
[02:28:26] <Marzo> You could make the trainers 'recognize' Katrina and give her hidden training points, for example
[02:28:35] <wizardrydragon> Perhaps
[02:28:45] <wizardrydragon> Im going to have to rewrite all the trainers at a point anyways
[02:28:56] <Crysta> you kidding? who woul dwatn to admit knowing her?
[02:29:14] <wizardrydragon> The goal with weapon restrictions is to start out restricted with certain weapons but you would be able to get training to be able to use it
[02:29:34] <wizardrydragon> Crysta: I would :)
[02:29:47] <Marzo> If you go by her portrait in Lazarus, every male character in the game :-)
[02:29:48] <wizardrydragon> She IS the hottest female character in Lazarus after all :P
[02:29:53] <Marzo> lol
[02:30:18] <wizardrydragon> Mariahs not so bhad in Laz either :)
[02:30:46] <wizardrydragon> By the way, Im not sure if you were aware of this Marzo
[02:30:47] <wizardrydragon> /* Cannot be implemented this way, since we don't have two UI_item_says to play with
[02:30:48] <wizardrydragon> if (UI_in_gump_mode()) UI_item_say_7F(item, msg);
[02:30:48] <wizardrydragon> else UI_item_say_40(item, msg);
[02:30:48] <wizardrydragon> */
[02:31:16] <wizardrydragon> In straight usecode "itemsay7f" is a delayed say, it will appear only after the active gump is closed
[02:31:21] <Marzo> They both work the same way in Exult
[02:31:34] <wizardrydragon> It might be worth duplicating if you havent and Exult doesnt handle it itself
[02:31:35] <Marzo> You sure?
[02:31:39] <wizardrydragon> Yes.
[02:31:58] <wizardrydragon> I was the one that figured out what the difference between those two intrinsics was, so Im quite sure ;)
[02:32:00] <wizardrydragon> * :)
[02:32:51] * wizardrydragon feels very old now, since that was back when he was 16.
[02:33:09] * Marzo hopes WizardryDragon won't take it the wrong way when Marzo says that he won't take his word on it :-)
[02:33:49] * wizardrydragon sets Marzo on fire. He thinks he's taking it quite well.
[02:34:04] <wizardrydragon> I probably knew more about programming when I was 16 then now, too :|
[02:34:18] <Marzo> lol
[02:34:23] <wizardrydragon> Just because I ate slept and dreamt programming back then :P
[02:34:40] <wizardrydragon> Nowadays I have a sembalance of a life :)
[02:36:11] <wizardrydragon> The way usecode works, the game mayh be "paused" when in gump_mode, but the usecode interpreter is, so you needed to delay the say() until the gump was closed, otherwise it would show when you were in the gump
[02:36:37] <wizardrydragon> *interpreter isnt
[02:37:13] <wizardrydragon> Im unsure if how Exult qeues things when its in gump_mode, if it does at all
[02:37:26] <Marzo> How do these icons look like?: http://www.geocities.com/mg_rpg_online/Icons.png
[02:37:33] <wizardrydragon> Not too shabby :)
[02:38:04] <Marzo> In Exult, scripts (execute_usecode_array) get executed only when gumps are closed
[02:38:09] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[02:38:17] <wizardrydragon> So you wont have to worry about it then :)
[02:38:59] <wizardrydragon> Waith though, does it execute normal usecode (not execute_usecode_arry)
[02:39:06] <wizardrydragon> ie function calls?
[02:39:15] <Marzo> Now I need ideas for TFL icons and for SI Fixes icons
[02:39:26] <wizardrydragon> Hehe
[02:39:36] <Marzo> Yes; only scripts are halted while gumps are open
[02:39:46] <wizardrydragon> Ugh, then you will have to worry about it then.
[02:40:15] <wizardrydragon> Is there a way usecode-wise to delay execution of a certain code or amount of code until a condition is met?
[02:40:32] <Marzo> The original also works this way, but there is the claimed difference between the two item_say intrinsics
[02:40:40] <wizardrydragon> In pascal you can use delay until (condition) { code }
[02:41:12] <Marzo> Considering that everything is halted while usecode is being executed, you have to use scripts
[02:41:32] <wizardrydragon> Although Im unsure if thats a pure pascal construct or something added by Delphi :)
[02:42:50] <wizardrydragon> (icons) I have a few things for icons but I dont really have a good program to turn them into icons
[02:42:58] <wizardrydragon> *things/graphics
[02:43:20] <wizardrydragon> I mean you can in MSVC but the utility sucks :P
[02:43:26] <Marzo> Considering that I like icons a lot, I bought Microangelo a while back
[02:43:45] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[02:44:06] <wizardrydragon> So if I make a graphic, you can make it into a spiffy icon? :)
[02:44:07] <Marzo> If you have rather large images which you want to turn into alpha icons, I know a freeware (open source, even) program which can do it for you
[02:44:15] <Marzo> Possibly
[02:44:15] <wizardrydragon> Oh?
[02:44:34] <Marzo> This program does not offer any editing capabilities at all
[02:44:36] <wizardrydragon> Well I can do something ... what's the WINXP big icons again ... 64x64 I think?
[02:44:58] <Marzo> It just takes an input image and converts into an icon
[02:45:05] <wizardrydragon> I could still use that.
[02:45:08] <Marzo> I think so
[02:45:16] <wizardrydragon> I'd prolly use PS for editing anyways.
[02:45:19] <Marzo> I have been using nothing but 'tiles' lately
[02:45:35] <wizardrydragon> Linkage? :)
[02:45:44] * Marzo points out that there is a 'tile view' available in Win XP
[02:45:48] <Marzo> Hold a sec
[02:46:10] <wizardrydragon> Kay :)
[02:46:31] <Marzo> Here it is: http://www.vbaccelerator.com/home/VB/Utilities/Alpha_Icon_Creator/article.asp
[02:46:40] <wizardrydragon> Thank you :)
[02:46:50] <Marzo> It is a VB program; if you are using XP, you don't need to download runtimes
[02:47:07] <wizardrydragon> I have them anyways; I have MSVB 6 :)
[02:47:14] <Marzo> I have a modified version of the program which also creates 24x24 icons
[02:47:55] * Marzo also has MSVB 6; he was quite the VB hacker a couple years ago
[02:48:00] <wizardrydragon> Hehe
[02:49:00] <wizardrydragon> I was going to say something but I cant remember what lol
[02:50:13] <Marzo> It is a consequence of the inevitable increase in age :-)
[02:50:23] <wizardrydragon> (restrictions) even if most weapons arent restricted, armour will be
[02:50:46] <wizardrydragon> I simply dont see most people being around to run around in full plate mail, especially the mage types :)
[02:51:07] <Marzo> Full plate mail is actually the worst possible example you could give :-)
[02:51:16] <wizardrydragon> Naa
[02:51:23] <Marzo> It was *designed* so that people could run, jump and even swim in it
[02:51:23] <wizardrydragon> They could be running around in Caddelite!
[02:51:42] <wizardrydragon> Yes, but it still about ninety pounds
[02:52:01] <wizardrydragon> And I wouldnt swim in something that corrodes in water, myself
[02:52:07] <Marzo> The weight was distributed over the whole body
[02:52:22] <wizardrydragon> Its still ninty pounds man
[02:52:23] <Marzo> And 90 lbs was the weight of the tipical *tournament* plate
[02:52:38] <wizardrydragon> You casn distribute it all in one place or all over, your average human cant lift it anyways
[02:52:42] <wizardrydragon> :P
[02:52:44] <Marzo> Actual combat plates were lighter
[02:53:02] <wizardrydragon> Depends on what period youre talking about,a ctually
[02:53:07] <wizardrydragon> It got heavier as it went on
[02:53:15] <wizardrydragon> 90 was the average average
[02:53:16] <wizardrydragon> :)
[02:53:21] <Marzo> As I mentioned, the tournament plates did
[02:53:45] <Marzo> They were about twice as thick
[02:53:56] <Marzo> (as normal plates)
[02:53:58] <wizardrydragon> In any event it's still too heavy for a mage to carry. Period. Nuff said :P
[02:54:28] <Marzo> Leave the restriction to the mage's strength then :-)
[02:54:45] <wizardrydragon> I dont see Katrina, Julia, or Jaana running around in it :P
[02:54:52] <wizardrydragon> And especially not Spark!
[02:55:19] <Marzo> "While it looks heavy, a full plate armour set could be as light as only 20 kg (45 pounds) if well made of tempered steel. This is less than the weight of modern combat gear of an infantry soldier, and the weight is better distributed. The weight was so well spread over the body that a fit man could run, or jump into his saddle. Modern re-enactment activity has proven it is even possible to swim in armour."
[02:55:38] <Marzo> I agree about Spark and the girls
[02:55:38] <wizardrydragon> Umm, so where in britian did we have tempered steel in the middle ages?
[02:55:54] <wizardrydragon> Maybe 1200's Japan, but definetely not 1200's Britian :)
[02:56:37] <wizardrydragon> In anhy event, that's for modern armour, which benefits from a lot of modern engineering :)
[02:57:44] <wizardrydragon> a thought: magical armour would probably benefit from enchantements making it lighter, though
[02:58:13] <Marzo> I can check with a guy I know, but ISTR tempering was quite common in Europe; it requires the low temperature of ~400-600 Celsius to temper steel
[02:58:41] <wizardrydragon> Yes, but I dont believe it made it that far west until plate armour was on its way out anyways
[02:58:56] <Crysta> why are we talking about the forging of armor?
[02:59:01] <wizardrydragon> it being tempering techniques
[02:59:22] <wizardrydragon> Crysta: like all of our discussions, we went on a tangeant
[02:59:28] <Crysta> lol
[02:59:34] <Marzo> There is this myth that Europe was way behind steel forging
[02:59:43] <wizardrydragon> Not way behind,
[03:00:00] <wizardrydragon> They just used different techniques :P
[03:00:03] <Marzo> The reason Japanese swords are often so much better then European ones is that Japan is iron poor, unlike Europe
[03:00:11] <wizardrydragon> Exactly
[03:00:20] <wizardrydragon> Japan used what was abundant for them
[03:00:24] <wizardrydragon> As did Britian :P
[03:00:56] <Marzo> Iron is and always was expensive in Japan; they didn't waste it making substandard swords
[03:01:10] <wizardrydragon> Hehe
[03:01:29] <wizardrydragon> Im not much of an expert on japanees history :P
[03:01:35] <Marzo> But the best european swords were just about as good as Japanese Katana
[03:01:52] <wizardrydragon> Now get me going on Scottish historyh and you'll be hearing about that until the cows come home :)
[03:02:19] <Marzo> The fame Europe has of poor swords is that they made lots of substandard swords for war
[03:02:40] <Marzo> err... is *from the fact* that
[03:03:11] <wizardrydragon> Eurpoeans favoured swords better for piecing and penetrating blows; they were meant for fencing, not war per se; but they were effective if used properly
[03:03:52] <wizardrydragon> Katanas and similar weapons were ment for slashing, and easier to split the links in chainmail with; but harder to penetrate heavy armour with
[03:04:13] <wizardrydragon> They were effective in different ways :)
[03:04:15] * Marzo points out that swords are much better for war if they kill with ease --- and that a stab is usually more fatal than a cut
[03:04:44] <wizardrydragon> Indeed.
[03:04:55] <wizardrydragon> Personally I prefer the scottish claymore, bhut Im a little biased :)
[03:05:03] <Marzo> :-)
[03:05:21] <wizardrydragon> But if the sword didn't cut you enoguh, chances were the strength behind the blow would have just as much crushing factor as a morning star :)
[03:05:42] <Marzo> True :-)
[03:06:00] <wizardrydragon> plus tryhing to block a claymore with a much smaller sword as a long sword didnt work well, especially if the blade was of poor strength
[03:06:58] <wizardrydragon> the disadvantage was that claymores were unwieldly - such a big sword HAD to be balanced, so thats not it; rather, they were just such a large thing to be flailing around :)
[03:07:21] <Marzo> The larger claymore (two handed version), as well as the german zweihander, were just about the only swords that could cut through plate -- and that if the wielder had enough strength
[03:07:51] <wizardrydragon> piognards could penetrate them, if the blade wasnt weak and broke on the thrust :)
[03:08:23] * Marzo points out that he said 'cut' :-)
[03:08:40] <wizardrydragon> The claymore is the larger version, Marzo, the smaller version you're thinking of is the "bastard sword", also called the "hand-and-a-half sword"
[03:09:28] * wizardrydragon has a bastard sword above his bed. It is a good deterrent for anyone that may attempt to vandalize or infiltrate his premisis :)
[03:09:46] <Marzo> ISTR that there were two swords that had that name; the earlier sword was shorter, while the big one got fame for the name
[03:10:11] <wizardrydragon> Well the scots only had one, and the bigger it was, the better :)
[03:10:19] <Marzo> lol
[03:10:46] * wizardrydragon imagines there were lots of "they must be comphensating for something" jokes back then.
[03:11:33] <wizardrydragon> Thats the scots in a nutshell, really
[03:11:42] <Marzo> lol
[03:11:43] <wizardrydragon> Big hairy guys in kilts with bigger swords.
[03:11:46] <wizardrydragon> :)
[03:12:14] <wizardrydragon> Although theyre also (in)famous for using pikes against armoured cavalry - a very effective tactic.
[03:12:25] <Marzo> Indeed
[03:12:39] <Marzo> About the only way to beat cavalry other than longbowmen
[03:13:11] <wizardrydragon> Well, when the oral history/legendry pretty much states that they got tired of ruining their claymores using them in similar ways :)
[03:13:59] <Marzo> lol
[03:14:00] <wizardrydragon> The swiss may have been the ones that perfected the pike (quite well, too :) you can thank them for halberds) it was the celts that first used them in such an effective way
[03:15:25] <wizardrydragon> A less advertised tactic they used, but also effective, was using them almost as javelins, hurling them from horseback a. la. riders of rohan from the LoTR movies :)
[03:16:55] <wizardrydragon> Not as gory, but still very cool :)
[03:17:04] <Marzo> :-)
[03:17:44] <wizardrydragon> There were three weapons of mass destruction back then :)
[03:17:51] <wizardrydragon> the scottish claymores, for their sheer power
[03:18:00] <wizardrydragon> the welsh longbows, for their sheer range
[03:18:15] <wizardrydragon> and the trebuchet, for the ability to decimate castles at will :)
[03:26:52] <wizardrydragon> (party sprites) any idea what to do for a julia sprite?
[03:27:08] <Crysta> pigtails
[03:27:10] <Marzo> Nope
[03:27:35] * wizardrydragon hereby dubs Crysta Captain Obvious
[03:27:50] <wizardrydragon> Stupid question: which colour was sacrifice again?
[03:27:56] <Crysta> red
[03:28:03] <wizardrydragon> My memory is too foggy with fatigue to remember :P
[03:28:08] <Marzo> No, red is valor
[03:28:15] <Crysta> oop
[03:28:27] <Marzo> Sacrifice is yellow
[03:28:30] * wizardrydragon searches for his U9 virtue cards to find out.
[03:28:33] <Crysta> i never finished ultima 4
[03:28:38] <Marzo> Nonono, that is compassion
[03:28:46] <Marzo> It is orange
[03:28:52] <wizardrydragon> Only good thing about u9 was those cards
[03:28:55] <wizardrydragon> For sure :)
[03:29:24] <Crysta> hey.. game had a great engine and pretty graphics too
[03:29:34] <wizardrydragon> Great engine if you hd it patched
[03:29:44] <Crysta> like i always did
[03:29:48] <wizardrydragon> And the graphics were good, but a lot of the models and stuff was not Ultima ish
[03:30:28] <Marzo> Truth is blue, red is courage, love yellow; honesty = truth, valor = courage, compassion = love; honor = truth + courage = purple, justice = truth + love = green, sacrifice = love + courage = orange
[03:30:35] <Crysta> i do rather question their design for the Slasher of Veils... and the creture it because later in development
[03:31:40] <Crysta> *creature it became
[03:34:29] <wizardrydragon> I question everything.
[03:34:37] <wizardrydragon> Just dont get me started on U9 :P
[03:34:48] <wizardrydragon> Hmm
[03:36:09] <wizardrydragon> I wonder
[03:36:15] * wizardrydragon tries something
[03:36:55] <wizardrydragon> (or rather, looks something up)
[03:40:52] <wizardrydragon> mmmmmmaaaarrrrrrrzzzzzzzzzooooooooo
[03:41:23] <Marzo> Yes
[03:41:39] <wizardrydragon> ExultStudio crashes everytime I try to run it when I dont have Exult running already
[03:41:52] <Marzo> The version I sent to you?
[03:41:59] <wizardrydragon> Yes
[03:42:11] <wizardrydragon> (is there a newer one available?)
[03:42:23] <Marzo> Yes
[03:42:31] <wizardrydragon> Mmkay Ill try downloading that
[03:42:47] <Marzo> You will also have to download the new Exult
[03:42:52] <wizardrydragon> oh ok
[03:43:45] <Marzo> On second thought, I don't know if the version there is newer than the one I sent you
[03:43:57] <wizardrydragon> the Exult one is :)
[03:44:03] <wizardrydragon> havent gotten to studio yet
[03:44:18] * Marzo noticed that the time stamp of the changelog is older than that of the binary snapshot
[03:44:26] <wizardrydragon> lol
[03:45:01] <Marzo> What is the default game in your Exult.cfg?
[03:45:13] <wizardrydragon> BLACKGATE
[03:45:45] <Marzo> Can you try running ES then upload studio_out and studio_err?
[03:46:02] * wizardrydragon nods.
[03:48:36] <wizardrydragon> Umm; they appear to have not been written
[03:48:39] <wizardrydragon> to
[03:48:55] <Marzo> That is very strange
[03:49:34] <wizardrydragon> i think its crashing before it can write them
[03:50:12] <Marzo> BTW, how did you figure out the difference between the two item_say intrinsics? it seems that item_say_7F is called in only one place in the BG usecode
[03:50:32] <wizardrydragon> forcing the issue, of course :)
[03:51:03] <Marzo> UI_item_say_7F(item, var0003);
[03:51:03] <Marzo> goto labelFunc009F_0090;
[03:51:03] <Marzo> labelFunc009F_0088:
[03:51:03] <Marzo> UI_item_say_40(item, var0003);
[03:51:22] <Marzo> Urgh, forgot the condition:
[03:51:24] <Marzo> if(!UI_in_gump_mode_81()) goto labelFunc009F_0088;
[03:51:29] <Marzo> UI_item_say_7F(item, var0003);
[03:51:29] <Marzo> goto labelFunc009F_0090;
[03:51:29] <Marzo> labelFunc009F_0088:
[03:51:34] <wizardrydragon> Heh
[03:52:09] <Marzo> After label labelFunc009F_0088, there is a call to UI_item_say_40 with the same parameters
[03:52:16] * wizardrydragon thinks people these days are lucky; try looking at it in pure usecode :)
[03:52:20] <Marzo> (this is from the pocketwatch, BTW)
[03:52:27] <Marzo> I have
[03:52:31] <wizardrydragon> :)
[03:52:50] <Marzo> I have even edited it (both with hex editor and with WUD/WUC)
[03:53:06] * wizardrydragon has fond memories of WUD
[03:53:29] <Marzo> (it is how I decoded a lot of things in ammo.dat)
[03:53:33] <wizardrydragon> In evither event, youre asking me about things I did four years ago so everythings not the clearest :)
[03:53:41] <Marzo> :-)
[03:54:08] <wizardrydragon> Howd I do it? Who knows? :) Ask yourself if you remember things you programmed four hyears ago :)
[03:54:24] <Marzo> I do, actually :-)
[03:54:31] <wizardrydragon> Well not me!
[03:54:46] * wizardrydragon has problems remembering what he ate for breakfast, let alone things from four years ago.
[03:54:59] <Marzo> lol
[03:56:44] * Marzo is thinking about using the new DOSBox debugger to figure out all that hasn't yet been figured out otherwise, but is also worried about legality issues
[03:57:09] <wizardrydragon> Er yeah I wouldnt do that
[03:57:13] <wizardrydragon> What still needs decoded?
[03:57:30] <Marzo> Sounds effects, for example
[03:57:39] <wizardrydragon> Reallyh?
[03:57:44] <wizardrydragon> I thought someone had figured thast out
[03:57:58] * Marzo points out that you need the digital sfx packs for sounds
[03:58:57] <wizardrydragon> oh you mean on a hardware level
[03:59:10] <wizardrydragon> that cant be too hard to figure out
[03:59:23] * wizardrydragon wonders if he still has his dos audio tools kicking around
[03:59:26] <Marzo> And not only that; for example, look at leopards in DOSBox and in Exult
[03:59:40] <Marzo> You will hear meows in the former, but not in the latter
[04:00:38] <wizardrydragon> Indeed
[04:00:50] <Crysta> really
[04:00:59] <wizardrydragon> Depends on what it uses for audio mind you
[04:01:03] <Crysta> i like the digital packs tho.. does this mean they're incomplete?
[04:01:23] <wizardrydragon> if it uses soundcard audio yhou can just monitor the interrupts and decode them
[04:01:32] <wizardrydragon> Hard? No.
[04:01:37] <wizardrydragon> Long and tedious? Hell yes.
[04:01:54] <Marzo> I don't know; but even if they are not, there are a lot of sfx that isn't played because we haven't figured out where they are stored
[04:02:10] <Marzo> Or rather, where does it say to play the sfx in question
[04:02:53] <Marzo> For example, we don't know where the sfx # for waves in the beach is stored; therefore, it was hard-coded until recently
[04:03:16] <Marzo> We still don't know where the # is stored; but it is now configurable in an external file
[04:03:45] <wizardrydragon> Okay so if its configurable then whys the original need decoded again
[04:04:42] <Marzo> Because no one has patience to listen to every sfx in the original, then in Exult, and discover which sfx goes where
[04:05:11] <Marzo> For example, which sfx # is the meow? Or try to differentiate between the humming sound of the three generators in BG
[04:05:45] <wizardrydragon> You could memdump the contents of the audio engine's mem area
[04:05:48] <Crysta> i would do it if i had the time
[04:06:01] <Crysta> i seem to handle tedious stuff well somehow
[04:06:02] * wizardrydragon will add it to his todo list
[04:07:24] <Marzo> And what is worse: what if the sfxs you can play in the original (using the cheat) do not include all sfx? For example, I could not find the leopard's meow, despite going through all sfx that didn't crash the game
[04:07:34] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: why would you need the dosbox debugger anyways?
[04:07:49] <wizardrydragon> What does it do that a memdump and/or a hexedit wouldnt?
[04:08:00] <Crysta> maybe there are multiple storage formats for different types of sounds
[04:08:25] <Crysta> kinda like card-specific memry bank stuff
[04:08:40] <Marzo> It allows me to pause during the execution, execute until an interrupt, inspect the values of the registers etc.
[04:09:08] <Marzo> Basically, I can go step-by-step through the relevant portions and see what is stored where
[04:09:30] <wizardrydragon> So a trace? I have a tool for that already :)
[04:09:49] <wizardrydragon> Though I suppose the toold inherent in dosbox would be more convinent
[04:09:53] <wizardrydragon> *tools
[04:09:55] <Marzo> So do I, but not for 16-bit apps
[04:10:05] <wizardrydragon> Mine only works with 16-bit apps :)
[04:10:10] <Marzo> lol
[04:10:30] <Marzo> But like I said, I am worried about the legality issues...
[04:10:37] <Crysta> legality?
[04:10:43] <Crysta> of what
[04:10:50] <Crysta> (i missed it apparently)
[04:11:03] <wizardrydragon> Traces arent illegal if you dont disassemble the code4
[04:11:08] <Marzo> Of debugging an application in order to reverse-engineer it
[04:11:28] <Crysta> are you planning to release any of the work afterward?
[04:11:33] <Crysta> or is it personal
[04:11:36] <wizardrydragon> If it is illegal than most of the early u7 tool pioneers are all fscked :)
[04:11:52] <Marzo> If I did this, portions would eventually seep into Exult
[04:12:14] <Marzo> Indeed.
[04:12:48] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: i wouldn't take any direct values from it
[04:12:49] * Marzo points out that a debugger lets you see the disassembled code as you step through it instruction-by-instruction
[04:12:54] <wizardrydragon> but looking isnt illegal :)
[04:13:16] <Marzo> Problem is, I know that there is actual data stored in the exe
[04:13:36] * wizardrydragon points at his first statement :P
[04:13:45] <Marzo> And if this data is exactly what I am looking for -- what would I do?
[04:14:41] * wizardrydragon thinks we should add that question to the gypsy intro when we make it :)
[04:14:50] <Marzo> lol
[04:15:38] <wizardrydragon> Personally, they cant lift a finger if you look and take notes, but as soon as you take direct values, well hyour fscked :)
[04:18:03] <Marzo> For example: I know there are .dat files inside the u7.exe. A few examples: 'ACTION.DAT', 'ammo.dat', 'armor.dat', 'av_flags.dat', 'equip.dat', 'ENDSTATS.DAT', 'MISSTRAC.DAT', 'monsters.dat', 'PATH.DAT', 'ready.dat'
[04:18:55] <Marzo> I can guess what each of these do by the name, and they are plain data
[04:19:05] <wizardrydragon> MISSTRAC.DAT I remember seeing that, but not what it does.
[04:19:16] <Marzo> Using it would be illegal, so I haven't done anything other than looking up their names
[04:19:55] <Marzo> I assume that it is for missiles
[04:20:37] <Marzo> Maybe energy mist and death vortex
[04:20:50] <wizardrydragon> I dont know how useful it could be, but its's not illegal to look at their organization
[04:21:02] <wizardrydragon> Just to use any data or copy anything directly from them :P
[04:21:28] <Marzo> The problem still remains of decoding the data
[04:21:46] <wizardrydragon> Indeed, BUT if it helps, then it helps, whether its a cure-all or not :)
[04:21:52] <Marzo> lol
[04:22:59] <wizardrydragon> Hmm
[04:23:02] <wizardrydragon> Reminds me of a quote
[04:23:15] <Marzo> Shoot
[04:23:59] <wizardrydragon> Im trying to look it up but Im not sure I have that book handy, heh
[04:24:10] <Marzo> lol
[04:24:16] <wizardrydragon> aha
[04:24:22] <Marzo> Maybe WikiQuote?
[04:24:33] <wizardrydragon> Found the book :)
[04:24:48] <wizardrydragon> well its from a game, but its easier to look in the hintbook since its there :)
[04:24:53] <Marzo> Now all that is left is to find the quote :-)
[04:25:47] <wizardrydragon> indeed!
[04:26:00] <wizardrydragon> Aha
[04:27:20] <wizardrydragon> There are two types of scientific progress: the methodical experimentation and categorization which gradually expands the boundaries of knowledge, and the revolutionary leap of genius that transcends and redefines these boundaries. Acknowledging our debt to the former, we yearn nonetheless for the latter.
[04:27:34] <wizardrydragon> That's from Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri :)
[04:27:54] <Marzo> Yes, I remember seeing that quote
[04:28:00] <wizardrydragon> :)
[04:28:17] <Marzo> I have no idea where I saw it, but I did
[04:28:24] <Crysta> i am so out
[04:28:25] <Crysta> night all
[04:28:27] <wizardrydragon> As much as we yearn to just suddenly decipher everything about Ultima VII, though, our debt is more to the former in that quote.
[04:28:32] <Marzo> Good night
[04:28:32] <wizardrydragon> Night Crysta.
[04:28:36] <-- Crysta has left #TFL ()
[04:28:56] <Marzo> Very true
[04:29:28] <wizardrydragon> Even if we did have the raw data though; numbers and figures in and of themselves are useuless unless you know how the game interprets them, so theyhre only half the battle in asny event :)
[04:29:33] <Marzo> If only because it makes it easier to do the later when you have done a lot of the former :-)
[04:29:42] <wizardrydragon> Indeed!
[04:30:06] <wizardrydragon> I remember when Exult was first starting how monumental a task it seemed
[04:30:16] <wizardrydragon> And now look where we all are now :)
[04:30:52] <wizardrydragon> Never woulda thought Id be making my own mod for U7 if you asked me when Exult started :)
[04:31:03] <Marzo> "Exult - X-windows Ultima7 map browser."
[04:31:03] <Marzo> - Top of exult.cc
[04:31:03] <Marzo> (Alpha version)
[04:31:07] <Marzo> True
[04:31:08] <wizardrydragon> :)
[04:31:13] <wizardrydragon> Now we have UCC
[04:31:19] <wizardrydragon> We have Exult Studio
[04:31:22] <Marzo> (that is from the Exult quotes)
[04:31:23] <wizardrydragon> We have lots :)
[04:31:26] <wizardrydragon> I know.
[04:31:35] <wizardrydragon> I remember when the alpha code had that too!
[04:31:40] * wizardrydragon suddenly feels old.
[04:31:40] <Marzo> :-)
[04:31:43] <Marzo> lol
[04:32:03] <wizardrydragon> Its funny, but messing around with Exult, thats how I learned to program C :)
[04:32:18] * Marzo tries to confort Wizardry by saying that he feels old because he *is* getting old, but it backfire horribly :-)
[04:32:26] <wizardrydragon> LOL
[04:32:28] <Marzo> Same here
[04:32:32] <wizardrydragon> I'm only 20 :P
[04:32:46] <wizardrydragon> Well technically 19 until tomorrow
[04:32:46] <Marzo> Now you're making *me* feel old
[04:33:04] * wizardrydragon points out that by tomorrow he truly means tomorrow, he is aware its sunday in his tmezone at least :)
[04:33:05] * Marzo sits at 27
[04:33:16] <wizardrydragon> :)
[04:33:31] <Marzo> Your birthday is this monday?
[04:33:37] <wizardrydragon> Most of the people I know and chum with are either the same age or younger, heh.
[04:33:42] <wizardrydragon> So I always feel old :P
[04:33:46] <Marzo> lol
[04:34:08] <wizardrydragon> Okay, a couple of sdays, its tuesdsay
[04:34:15] <Marzo> :-)
[04:34:20] * wizardrydragon though Monday was the fifth but checked and found himself mistaken
[04:34:44] * Marzo wonders if this is the time to send the extra UW2 copy I have as a birthday present :-)
[04:34:49] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[04:35:02] <wizardrydragon> I doubt itd get to me in two days, but itd be neat :)
[04:35:11] <Marzo> I think I mentioned it once to you; a PM in the TFL forum
[04:35:31] * wizardrydragon wonders if you can mail a package to a PO box. Thats all he gets since hes in an apt.
[04:36:06] * Marzo doesn't know. He never tried it.
[04:36:16] * wizardrydragon will find out. If he can and you really want to, he'll send you his address; he's not going to say it here where random stalkers can find his address in the TFL logs :)
[04:36:29] <Marzo> :-)
[04:36:41] <Marzo> Now I just have to find where it is
[04:36:50] <wizardrydragon> Youd be the only one to get me something other than my roomate it seems :P Blah.
[04:37:16] * wizardrydragon gave everyone else all a good fist-shaking-at, so its all good.
[04:37:30] <Marzo> lol
[04:38:02] <wizardrydragon> Although Im pretty sure my fiance will get something, because if she forgets I wont let her forget that she forgot :)
[04:38:22] * wizardrydragon wonders how much sense that made.
[04:38:23] <Marzo> :-)
[04:38:42] <Marzo> For a good reader, half a word is eno
[04:38:47] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[04:39:07] <wizardrydragon> It was more the logic thant the atrocious typing and grammar I was worrying about
[04:39:40] <wizardrydragon> Hmm.
[04:39:41] <Marzo> OK, found it.
[04:39:47] * wizardrydragon wonders what goodies UW2 came with
[04:40:01] * wizardrydragon still has the fellowship medallion form the U7 box, though he abhors the thing.
[04:40:25] * Marzo doesn't know; he still hasn't opened his copy
[04:40:45] <wizardrydragon> One of these days, Im going to find someone I really dislike, and give that medasllion to them. :)
[04:40:55] <Marzo> lol
[04:41:18] <wizardrydragon> I wonder if the U8 box came with anything
[04:41:26] <wizardrydragon> I only have U8 from the Collection
[04:41:48] <wizardrydragon> Same with u6
[04:41:57] <wizardrydragon> I have all the others though
[04:42:11] <wizardrydragon> Although the bosxes for u1 through 4 have seen MUCH better days
[04:42:19] <Marzo> Other than U7 and UW & UW2, I only have the collection
[04:42:47] <wizardrydragon> I have all the series gasmes other than u6 and u8 in original form
[04:42:56] <wizardrydragon> I also have UW1 but not 2 obviously :)
[04:43:04] <wizardrydragon> I have SE too, which is neat because its less common :)
[04:43:11] <wizardrydragon> But not Martian Dreams
[04:43:26] <Marzo> Ah, I forgot about those two; I have them too
[04:43:33] <wizardrydragon> MD, too?
[04:43:37] * Marzo hasn't ever played them though
[04:43:40] <wizardrydragon> lol
[04:43:43] <wizardrydragon> lucky bastard
[04:43:53] <wizardrydragon> I love MD but I dont have the orignal boxed version
[04:43:58] <wizardrydragon> I got it in a collection for m sound card
[04:43:59] <wizardrydragon> lol
[04:44:43] <Marzo> Here is the collectibles list: http://www.notableultima.com/collectibles/CollectorsNotes.html
[04:44:51] <wizardrydragon> :)
[04:44:57] <Marzo> U8 came with a pentagram coin
[04:45:02] <wizardrydragon> My roommate has everythign, really, lol
[04:45:10] <Marzo> UW1 with 6 runes
[04:45:16] <wizardrydragon> I know
[04:45:21] <wizardrydragon> I can only find 5
[04:45:27] <wizardrydragon> X-x
[04:45:54] <wizardrydragon> It came with the baggie thingy and the runes, I believe
[04:46:07] <Marzo> Indeed
[04:46:29] <Marzo> U1 also had a cloth bag, but with five coins instead
[04:46:45] <wizardrydragon> :)
[04:47:00] <wizardrydragon> You have the medallion from BG too then, I take it? :)
[04:47:16] <Marzo> No; I have lost it
[04:47:22] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[04:47:26] <wizardrydragon> Good riddance :)
[04:47:40] <Marzo> I started playing U7 when I was barely able to understand english
[04:48:03] <wizardrydragon> I wish I could find my In rune though, you never know when you might have to travel to the Abyss and In is a crucial rune to have :)
[04:48:09] <Marzo> Back then, it was just a cool interactive game which I couldn't understand
[04:48:14] <Marzo> lol
[04:48:22] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[04:48:30] <wizardrydragon> sounds like Baldurs Gaste to me,
[04:48:42] <wizardrydragon> I loved the game but Id be damned if I understood the system behind it
[04:48:56] <Marzo> lol
[04:49:00] <wizardrydragon> not quite the same thing, but i digress :P
[04:49:34] * wizardrydragon is still wonderinhg if UW2 had any collectibles since his rommie is asleep.
[04:49:49] * wizardrydragon looks around before rummaging through the box o ultima stuff
[04:50:22] <wizardrydragon> Iolo:"Is that Virtuous, Avatar?"
[04:50:28] <Marzo> From here: http://home.hiwaay.net/~rgregg/ultima/ultima-collectibles.html
[04:50:29] <Marzo> lol
[04:50:42] <Marzo> Ultima Underworld II: Labyrinth of Worlds
[04:50:43] <Marzo> (c) 1992 OSI. UPC 17814-80410. 3.5" (5), 5.25".
[04:50:43] <Marzo> UW2 Player's Guide book; A Safe Passage Through Britannia book; Castle British paper map
[04:50:51] <wizardrydragon> Ah so just a map
[04:51:09] <wizardrydragon> And not even a cloth one? I like the closth ones *sniff*
[04:51:51] <wizardrydragon> I *do* so love the design of the UW2 manual though
[04:52:41] * Marzo just realizes that the UW2 I have is an "EA CD-ROM Classics collection"
[04:52:48] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[04:52:58] <wizardrydragon> Thats probasbly a good thing, because I dont have a disk drive :P
[04:53:03] <Marzo> :-)
[04:53:38] <wizardrydragon> Well I do have my 6-yhear-old fossil labtop, but Id have to dig that out of the bottom of the closet
[04:53:43] <Marzo> It is UW1 & UW2 in CD
[04:53:48] <wizardrydragon> ah cool
[04:53:52] <wizardrydragon> anyh goodies? :P
[04:54:08] * wizardrydragon probably buys the Ultima games as much for the collectibles as the games :)
[04:54:13] <Marzo> The box is selaed, so I don't know
[04:54:27] <wizardrydragon> *pokes around on above site*
[04:54:33] <Marzo> The description in the back doesn't say anything
[04:55:09] <wizardrydragon> Many of the games didnt though, and many did, so thats not really indicitive :) I cant find the collectors ones on that site though?
[04:55:16] <Marzo> From the site, no, no collectibles :-(
[04:55:29] <wizardrydragon> Ah. Sorrow.
[04:56:00] <Marzo> Still, you get to play underworld
[04:56:06] <wizardrydragon> I really am starting to wonder where that one rune went, since the bag is closed up nd in my desk drawer where it has been since I moved in
[04:56:27] * Marzo imagines TFL with a 'UW2' map
[04:56:49] * wizardrydragon uses Search in several adjacent squares.
[04:57:04] <wizardrydragon> You measn one in the sthyle of the UW2 paper map?
[04:57:48] <Marzo> No; I meant more like adding a remake (in Exult) of UW2 between BG and SI :-)
[04:57:54] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[04:58:16] <wizardrydragon> Im going to have enough work trying to tie in UW1, but it's on the "todo eventually as in when pigs fly" list :)
[04:58:27] <Marzo> lol
[04:59:10] * wizardrydragon rather likes the presentation of the UW2 map though, just would rather it was on cloth :)
[04:59:35] * Marzo knows that there is a site showing screenshots of the collectibles, but is damned if he can find the site again...
[05:00:00] <Marzo> You can make your own cloth map, you know
[05:00:02] <wizardrydragon> ASctually, come to think of it, look up a picture of it online; it wouldnt be hard to duplicate with Exult in regards to the underworld he would thing.
[05:00:06] <Marzo> e.g.: http://www.alpharubicon.com/prepinfo/clothmapsian.htm
[05:00:09] <wizardrydragon> hehe
[05:00:11] <wizardrydragon> I know!
[05:00:23] <wizardrydragon> I used that site to help me mae a cloth map for Lazarus!
[05:00:27] <wizardrydragon> :)
[05:00:30] <Marzo> :-)
[05:00:45] * wizardrydragon is truly one of the proud few tto have a Ultima V: Lazarus cloth map
[05:00:53] <Marzo> I am going to use it to make maps for the Ultima pen&paper RPG I am going to make
[05:01:18] * wizardrydragon plans to make cloth maps of TFL for all the team when the map is finalized :)
[05:01:27] <Marzo> :-)
[05:02:37] <wizardrydragon> If you can find apicture of the map from UW2, tell me if you agree with me that it wouldnt be hard to doctor a "screen dump" from Exult of an underworld map to resemble that
[05:04:17] <Marzo> Found the map of LB's castle
[05:04:22] <wizardrydragon> :)
[05:04:45] <wizardrydragon> I dont think that would be hard to reproduce if you dumped a screen from an underworld map and doctored it in Photoshop :)
[05:05:52] <Marzo> Found automaps of of UW2 here: http://www.ultimainfo.net/Maps/UW2Maps.htm
[05:05:57] <wizardrydragon> Hehe
[05:06:07] <wizardrydragon> I was talking about the paper map :)
[05:06:29] <Marzo> You mean LB's castle?
[05:06:33] <wizardrydragon> Yep
[05:06:47] <wizardrydragon> Or rather "The Castle of Lord British" :)
[05:06:51] <Marzo> This map? http://www.uo.com/archive/ftp/maps/uw2/cbritish.gif
[05:07:06] <wizardrydragon> (someone ought to remind them that it's Castle Britannia :) )
[05:07:22] <Marzo> It is an EA division
[05:07:27] <Marzo> What did you expect?
[05:07:36] <wizardrydragon> Nothing.
[05:07:41] <wizardrydragon> ASnd yet, somehow Im still let down
[05:07:42] <wizardrydragon> :)
[05:07:49] <Marzo> lol
[05:08:09] <wizardrydragon> Not a halfbad looking map though
[05:08:13] <wizardrydragon> Looks U6ish :)
[05:09:25] <wizardrydragon> I have to say my favourite map is the U7 BG one though. I just like the looks of it.
[05:09:35] <wizardrydragon> I love the fact that they hid ambrosia under the compass :)
[05:09:42] <Marzo> :-)
[05:10:04] <Marzo> For my P&P RPG, I am basing Britannia in the Lazarus map
[05:10:11] <wizardrydragon> Only problem is Id be completely lost at trying to make a TFL map on that style :)
[05:10:23] <Marzo> But since it is strongly reminiscent of the U7 map in any case...
[05:10:32] <wizardrydragon> I think all I have currently for the laz map is my "hard copy" hehe
[05:11:46] <Marzo> How is this for the amulet of Lord British: http://www.geocities.com/mg_rpg_online/Necklace.jpg
[05:11:52] <wizardrydragon> Not too shabby
[05:12:04] <wizardrydragon> Didnt you alreadhy make a sprite for that though?
[05:12:11] * wizardrydragon seems to vaguely remember something like that
[05:12:22] <Marzo> That is a picture of a real amulet :-)
[05:12:31] <wizardrydragon> Yeah
[05:12:43] <wizardrydragon> I mean, you already did something like that
[05:12:46] <wizardrydragon> in a sprite
[05:12:48] <Marzo> I did
[05:12:49] <wizardrydragon> if I remember right
[05:12:52] <wizardrydragon> aha!
[05:12:55] <wizardrydragon> so im not insane
[05:13:03] <Marzo> Not completely :-)
[05:13:05] <wizardrydragon> compeltely
[05:13:06] <wizardrydragon> lol
[05:13:09] <Marzo> lol
[05:13:34] * wizardrydragon is looking through his old Ultima manuals trying to decide upon the graphical design style to adopt for the TFL manual
[05:13:42] <Marzo> When I made the amulet, I knew that LB's amulet was a silver serpent
[05:13:53] * wizardrydragon does this because he knows that if he doesnt, no one will :)
[05:14:05] <Marzo> lol
[05:14:23] <wizardrydragon> I also need to start doing some quest writing I guhess
[05:14:33] <wizardrydragon> Im not gonna hold my breath waiting for Vistaer to resurface
[05:14:34] <wizardrydragon> :P
[05:14:57] <Marzo> For now, I warrant that just finishing the map will be a big enough task
[05:15:18] <wizardrydragon> Well we do need to have a way for the avatar to get fomr point a to point b
[05:15:25] <Marzo> I mean, creating the towns and dungeons and so on
[05:15:34] <wizardrydragon> And when we have that quest done is exactly when we will release 0.1 :)
[05:15:44] <Marzo> :-)
[05:16:12] <wizardrydragon> Im not gonna be like, oh by the way theres no new quests but you can run around on a map if thats what floats your boat :)
[05:16:21] <Marzo> lol
[05:16:39] * Marzo for some reason thinks about Project Britannia
[05:16:44] <wizardrydragon> LOL
[05:16:46] <wizardrydragon> indeed!
[05:16:59] <wizardrydragon> Mind you Nuvies not the best at that either :)
[05:17:08] <wizardrydragon> But I love Nuvie so I forgive them :)
[05:17:22] * Marzo notes that neither was Exult a few years back
[05:17:35] <wizardrydragon> Indeed, but as Nuvie, I love them so I forgive them :)
[05:17:46] * Marzo also notices that 'many' works better than 'few' in that sentence
[05:17:50] <Marzo> :-)
[05:17:58] <wizardrydragon> But Project Britannia doesnt have the excuse of being a game engine as Nuvie and Exult do :)
[05:18:06] <Marzo> True
[05:18:11] <wizardrydragon> Ooh thats a new one
[05:18:17] <Marzo> ?
[05:18:25] <wizardrydragon> Exult seems to have applied the game pallete to my whole screen
[05:18:41] <Marzo> That... should *not* happen
[05:18:46] * wizardrydragon thinks Exult must be the new LSD for computers.
[05:18:51] <Marzo> lol
[05:19:04] <wizardrydragon> I havent encountered that one even back in 0.x! :D
[05:19:11] <Marzo> (unless you are using full screen)
[05:19:15] <wizardrydragon> Nope
[05:19:24] <wizardrydragon> I wonder if going full screen will fix it
[05:19:26] * wizardrydragon tries
[05:19:31] <wizardrydragon> Yep!
[05:19:33] <wizardrydragon> Still odd though
[05:19:44] <Marzo> Maybe it is SDL acting up
[05:19:53] <wizardrydragon> Could be
[05:20:12] <wizardrydragon> Most of my early bugs I reported for Exult cold all be traced back to SDL so it wouldnt shock me :)
[05:20:21] <Marzo> Did the screen 'flash black' before the palette got applied to the screen?
[05:20:28] <wizardrydragon> How?
[05:20:42] <wizardrydragon> It flashed kind of when I came back from fullscreen and fixed itself
[05:20:47] <wizardrydragon> But not before the cortruption
[05:20:51] <wizardrydragon> It just ... happenhed
[05:20:55] <Marzo> Similar to what happens when you change the color depth in the display properties
[05:21:10] <Marzo> Oh
[05:21:25] * wizardrydragon checks to see if theres anything meaningful in out/err but doesnt think there will be since thats not something he thinks Jeffs had to worry about, heh
[05:21:55] <wizardrydragon> Pallettes actually worked in Exult with a lot less fuss then they thought it would take, so they were happy :)
[05:22:00] <Marzo> That reminds me of yet another thing to add to my todo list...
[05:22:03] <wizardrydragon> Oh?
[05:22:10] <wizardrydragon> (Another? Good god man)
[05:22:41] <Marzo> I have been thinking of adding a more thorough output in stdout and stderr to help tracking down errors
[05:22:48] <wizardrydragon> It would certainly help.
[05:23:10] <wizardrydragon> Personally if you have debug on it helps with 90% of bugs
[05:23:15] * Marzo thinks of the incident with the usecode file, making TFL crash when 'creating gamedat files...'
[05:23:35] * wizardrydragon thinks CVS snapshots should be built with the debug flag set
[05:23:53] * Marzo agrees; maybe he will suggest it to Kirben
[05:24:08] <wizardrydragon> They are development snapshots after all!
[05:24:52] <Marzo> By the way, I don't know if you know this (or if you will need it) but there are advanced usecode tracing options in debug versions of Exult
[05:25:08] <wizardrydragon> I was aware of that but I wasnt sure how to use it, heh
[05:25:53] <Marzo> Just paste the following in exult.cfg in the same level as '<disk>' and '<audio>' tags:
[05:25:55] <Marzo> <debug>
[05:25:55] <Marzo> <trace>
[05:25:55] <Marzo> <usecode>
[05:25:55] <Marzo> yes
[05:25:55] <Marzo> </usecode>
[05:25:56] <Marzo> <intrinsics>
[05:25:58] <Marzo> yes
[05:26:00] <Marzo> </intrinsics>
[05:26:02] <Marzo> <combat>
[05:26:04] <Marzo> yes
[05:26:06] <Marzo> </combat>
[05:26:08] <Marzo> </trace>
[05:26:10] <Marzo> </debug>
[05:26:17] <wizardrydragon> I mean, how to get the results of it
[05:26:22] <Marzo> stdout will contain a lot more information than usual, so beware
[05:26:22] <wizardrydragon> and what have you
[05:26:30] <wizardrydragon> just stdout then?
[05:26:34] <Marzo> Yes
[05:26:43] <Marzo> For the moment, at any rate
[05:26:46] <wizardrydragon> maybe the usecode should go in a seperate ffile :)
[05:26:57] <Marzo> I know thare are plans to make it do more things in the future
[05:27:04] <Marzo> Possibly
[05:27:10] <wizardrydragon> Would be nice to be able to step through usecode
[05:27:22] <wizardrydragon> Been suggesting that since UCC first was released :)
[05:28:03] * Marzo thinks of the proposed usecode debugger: http://sourceforge.net/pm/task.php?func=detailtask&project_task_id=39853&group_id=2335&group_project_id=1517
[05:28:11] <wizardrydragon> :)
[05:28:34] * wizardrydragon has been working on an IDE for usecoding as a side project since UCC first came out
[05:29:23] <Marzo> I'd like to see what you have someday
[05:29:39] <wizardrydragon> When I have a version that I dub to be at all useable, Ill show you :)
[05:29:47] * Marzo also remembers the ExultDirector: http://sourceforge.net/pm/task.php?func=detailtask&project_task_id=39853&group_id=2335&group_project_id=1517
[05:30:16] * wizardrydragon notices that right now the syntax highlighter is rather broke
[05:30:33] <wizardrydragon> Maybe Ill upload it to CVS when I get the time and remember to
[05:30:43] <wizardrydragon> Its in VB so you might have some fun poking around in it :)
[05:30:48] <Marzo> :-)
[05:31:11] <wizardrydragon> I actually started it in Pascal, but Delphi doesnt have any reliable data exchange structure other than DDE
[05:31:20] <Marzo> What do you know, I have written a program in the past that used syntax highlighting for data files of another program :-)
[05:31:22] <wizardrydragon> and well, we've already been there when it comes to DDE discussion :)
[05:31:31] <Marzo> Indeed
[05:31:32] <wizardrydragon> id love to see that if it works
[05:31:59] <wizardrydragon> Ive wrote and broken my syntax highighter more times than Id care to share, lol
[05:32:05] <Marzo> It is horribly uncommented, bloated and inextensible; I'd rather hide it if I can :-)
[05:32:10] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[05:32:25] <wizardrydragon> Why do you think I dont want to share my code right away either :)
[05:32:33] <Marzo> I have been planning on updating it for 2-3 years using some advanced techniques
[05:32:45] * wizardrydragon hides the IDE until he can make the code look pretty :)
[05:32:53] <Marzo> lol
[05:33:03] <wizardrydragon> I wonder
[05:33:09] <Marzo> Yes?
[05:33:10] <wizardrydragon> What is it Exult's using now?
[05:33:18] <wizardrydragon> for data between E/ES I mean?
[05:33:19] <Marzo> For UCC?
[05:33:24] <wizardrydragon> Exult/ExultStudio
[05:33:28] <wizardrydragon> TCP?
[05:33:36] <Marzo> Oh. Right now, it is using sockets to communicate
[05:33:40] <wizardrydragon> Oh
[05:33:46] <Marzo> I think that in Windows, it is TCP
[05:33:53] <wizardrydragon> I thought Colourless mentioned he was using TCP?
[05:34:00] <Marzo> Don't know about Linux/Unix
[05:34:12] <wizardrydragon> Well my tool would be Win32 only being VB :)
[05:34:22] <Marzo> Indeed
[05:34:24] <wizardrydragon> Except maybe from inside VMWare or Wine :)
[05:35:17] <wizardrydragon> Hmm so Ill have to change all of the foundation I had for the pipes then
[05:35:21] * Marzo thinks that with what he has learned since he joined the Exult team, he could probably write a C++ syntax highlighter using Bison which would be blazing fast
[05:35:47] <wizardrydragon> Ive been toying with having the IDE run a clean version of Exult as aa test sandbox for code
[05:36:14] <wizardrydragon> Would be very useful, especially if you could step through
[05:36:27] <wizardrydragon> Needs a lot of overhead to make sure that you can set test conditions though
[05:36:37] <Marzo> That is a capability that would be really useful for ES
[05:37:05] * Marzo knows that it would add a lot of overhead
[05:37:14] * wizardrydragon was thinking aloud :)
[05:37:38] * Marzo is almost falling asleep in his keyboard, and thinks it is time for bed
[05:38:58] <Marzo> Good night
[05:39:23] <wizardrydragon> Take care
[05:39:30] <-- Marzo has left IRC ("Marzo vanishes suddenly.")
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[17:39:23] <Crysta> hiya
[17:39:30] <wizardrydragon> hhello
[17:39:33] <Crysta> both of you
[17:39:41] <Crysta> sorry.. went out to lunch with my dad :p
[17:39:58] <wizardrydragon> aww lol
[17:48:30] <Marzo> Hi
[17:55:28] <Crysta> so whats up :p
[17:55:44] <Marzo> I am fixing the Britannian portion of TFL
[17:55:53] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: can you link me to the Mariah sprite again?
[17:55:57] <Crysta> cool :D
[17:56:01] <Marzo> ?log
[17:56:01] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/tfllog.php
[17:56:03] <wizardrydragon> I accidentally deleted it X-x
[17:56:22] <Marzo> It will be in the commit I am doing today
[17:56:50] <Marzo> If you can't wait until then, just let me know...
[17:57:23] <Marzo> In any case: http://www.geocities.com/mg_rpg_online/Mariah.png
[17:58:01] <wizardrydragon> ;p;
[17:58:03] <wizardrydragon> *lol
[17:58:20] <wizardrydragon> well I have to leave in a few minute for this annoying real life job thing :)
[17:58:33] <Marzo> On a sunday?
[17:58:42] <wizardrydragon> Yeppers.
[17:59:00] <wizardrydragon> Not a long shift though, thankfully.
[17:59:23] <wizardrydragon> And (hopefully) one that might get cut short :)
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[19:46:17] <wizardrydragon> im back
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[19:48:06] <Marzo> ?log
[19:48:06] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/tfllog.php
[19:49:30] <wizardrydragon> hi again marzo
[19:50:26] <Marzo> hi
[19:51:02] <wizardrydragon> I have to say I love the second version of the Mariah, with the trim and blue skirt, don't you agree? :)
[19:51:15] <Marzo> :-)
[19:57:47] * wizardrydragon demands this chat channel be more active!
[19:58:11] * wizardrydragon prods #tfl
[20:09:52] * Marzo ignores wizardrydragon
[20:09:53] <Marzo> :-)
[20:10:28] <wizardrydragon> O:
[20:10:42] * wizardrydragon prods Marzo with the Claymore of Compliance
[20:14:48] <wizardrydragon> Commit?
[20:16:14] <Marzo> Still working
[20:18:38] * wizardrydragon waits, impatiently.
[20:26:18] * Marzo points out that many files in TFL have DOS line endings and use spaces for identation, and that he will have to convert them all
[20:27:00] <Marzo> The map is mostly ready, though; you will have to redecorate Chahiero's house, but that is all
[20:27:12] <wizardrydragon> I thought I fixed that!?
[20:27:17] <wizardrydragon> The DOS line endings
[20:27:25] <wizardrydragon> Maybe I didn't commit that though
[20:27:28] <Marzo> You didn't
[20:27:33] <Marzo> Possibly
[20:27:39] * wizardrydragon points out the last line
[20:27:39] <Marzo> (check dupre.uc)
[20:27:41] <wizardrydragon> :)
[20:31:16] * wizardrydragon seems to have more recent copies than CVS, so he guesses this is something he forghot to commit ^_^;
[20:31:51] <wizardrydragon> What files do you have that are in the wrong format that have yet to be fixed?
[20:32:01] <wizardrydragon> They may be among the ones I have fixed, so I can commit them.
[20:32:02] <Marzo> I am still looking
[20:32:07] <wizardrydragon> Okay.
[20:32:31] <wizardrydragon> I went over all the NPC ones and fixed it where I found it, I meant to go over other files but it's on the todo list :)
[20:58:08] * wizardrydragon fiddles with the tfl map some more
[21:05:44] * Marzo is going through the diff logs to see if he hasn't overwritten any usecode Wizardry Dragon may have written
[21:05:54] <wizardrydragon> What files, Marzo?
[21:06:08] <Marzo> For example, NPC files
[21:06:16] <Marzo> More specifically, the companions
[21:07:05] * Marzo points out that Wizardry dragon has set-up SI-like conversations for many NPCs, while there is no such thing in the Keyring mod
[21:07:37] <wizardrydragon> :)
[21:08:07] <wizardrydragon> I havent added that to anything new if that's the worry
[21:08:23] <wizardrydragon> The only NPCs I have edited recently are TFL-specific ones
[21:08:41] <Marzo> But I have made change to some of the NPCs that you changed
[21:08:51] <Marzo> For example, Jaana and Iolo
[21:09:08] <wizardrydragon> I havent touched them myself, so the changes should be fine
[21:09:22] <wizardrydragon> Insofar as they dont beak anything :)
[21:10:18] <wizardrydragon> I did fix up the structure of /src/tseramed.uc a bit, but Im unsure if that is something you're worrying about
[21:10:38] <Marzo> No, Tseramed isn't one of them
[21:11:20] <wizardrydragon> Then there should be no worries unless you have ventured into the no-man's-land that is the TFL NPC code :)
[21:12:34] <Marzo> By the way: from what you said about the different item_say intrinsics: one of them can be emulated with scripts ('script obj say "Your text";')
[21:12:49] <wizardrydragon> Cool
[21:12:54] * Marzo has remembered because he just saw the pocketwatch usecode
[21:13:00] <wizardrydragon> :)
[21:13:19] <wizardrydragon> Ooh I think I mightve jimmed with some of the I side of the Q&I patch
[21:13:21] <wizardrydragon> lemme check
[21:13:46] <wizardrydragon> I thought I did, I jimmied with food.uc a bit
[21:13:53] <Marzo> I am completely overwriting your changes with regards to Q&I
[21:14:02] * wizardrydragon loves Marzo too.
[21:14:11] <Marzo> If you have any changes you'd like to preserve, now is the time to let me know
[21:14:20] <Marzo> lol
[21:14:27] <wizardrydragon> Nah, Ill fiddle with it when you commit it
[21:14:35] <Marzo> The reason is because I massively reorganized the Q&I usecode
[21:14:43] <wizardrydragon> You probably fixed up what I fixed myself anyways.
[21:14:51] <Marzo> Tracking down the changes would you made would be nearly impossible
[21:15:22] * Marzo isn't joking. Wizardry Dragon won't recognize the Q&I usecode when he sees it
[21:15:39] * wizardrydragon points out his last statement :) And also points out the lack of concern in his statement as indicitive of how attached he is to his changes :)
[21:16:32] <Marzo> You added code to the shrines to give karma when meditating, right?
[21:16:38] <wizardrydragon> Yes
[21:16:40] <wizardrydragon> Here
[21:16:44] <wizardrydragon> Ill grab the applicable code
[21:16:49] <Marzo> Must remember to readd it
[21:17:13] <Marzo> (no need to, I have a backup copy of tfl that is identical with cvs)
[21:17:54] <wizardrydragon> else if (cycles < 3)
[21:17:54] <wizardrydragon> {
[21:17:54] <wizardrydragon> //Too few cycles
[21:17:54] <wizardrydragon> AVATAR.say("After a while, you feel a sense of calm and inner peace.");
[21:17:54] <wizardrydragon>
[21:17:55] <wizardrydragon> //Give a mild spirituality bonus anyway
[21:17:57] <wizardrydragon> karma_increaseSpirituality(AVATAR, 5);
[21:17:59] <wizardrydragon>
[21:18:01] <wizardrydragon> abort;
[21:18:03] <wizardrydragon> }
[21:18:05] <wizardrydragon> else if (cycles > 3)
[21:18:07] <wizardrydragon> {
[21:18:09] <wizardrydragon> //Too many cycles
[21:18:11] <wizardrydragon> AVATAR.say("You meditated for too long and eventually lost your focus.");
[21:18:13] <wizardrydragon>
[21:18:15] <wizardrydragon> //Give a mild spirituality bonus anyway
[21:18:17] <wizardrydragon> karma_increaseSpirituality(AVATAR, 5);
[21:18:19] <wizardrydragon>
[21:18:21] <wizardrydragon> abort;
[21:18:23] <wizardrydragon> }
[21:18:25] <wizardrydragon> its not exactly a complex call :P
[21:18:29] <wizardrydragon> just need to find the right places to readd it
[21:18:53] <Marzo> That is why I made a diff of all files
[21:19:18] <wizardrydragon> karma_increaseSpirituality(AVATAR, 5);
[21:19:18] <wizardrydragon> is all, the actual add code does the grunt work :)
[21:19:36] <wizardrydragon> Did that so if I had to fix the add code I didn't have to fix it in 100'sa of places :)
[21:21:27] <wizardrydragon> Touch that code now that it works properly, and I will eviscerate you :)
[21:21:41] <wizardrydragon> The karma_increase X() functions that is
[21:21:48] * Marzo evily erradicates the Karma code! :-)
[21:22:19] * wizardrydragon finds a 20th story window just so he can effectively defenestrate Marzo
[21:23:54] <Marzo> Among the many changes I made, I eliminated the needless variable predeclaration before for loops
[21:24:19] <wizardrydragon> Hehe
[21:24:32] * Marzo has discovered that all you have to declare in for loops is the array variable
[21:24:59] * wizardrydragon thinks that makes a whole lot more sense than what we were doing.
[21:25:12] <Marzo> For example, you have to declare 'objs' in the following:
[21:25:23] <Marzo> for (obj in objs with index to max)
[21:25:39] <wizardrydragon> Indeed
[21:25:41] <Marzo> But all of the others are auto-declared by UCC
[21:25:57] <wizardrydragon> Starts to sound lot like Pascal, which is good because I understand Pascal
[21:29:47] <Marzo> There it is: will have to take care of the Jaana usecode
[21:30:36] <wizardrydragon> I dont envy you in that task
[21:31:25] <Marzo> By the way: if you are making changes to the map, be sure to commit it before I do
[21:31:38] <wizardrydragon> The TFL map?
[21:31:44] <Marzo> That way, I can integrate your changes into mine instead of overwriting them
[21:31:45] <wizardrydragon> Just tell me before you commit
[21:31:48] <Marzo> k
[21:39:33] --> Dominus has joined #tfl
[21:39:47] <Dominus> and hi :)
[21:39:48] <wizardrydragon> Hello Dom
[21:39:53] <Marzo> Hi Dominus
[21:40:23] <Dominus> yet another room where the usual suspects hang out :)
[21:40:54] <wizardrydragon> :D
[21:41:09] * wizardrydragon thinks as himself as rather unusual a person, however.
[21:41:33] <Dominus> you are you are :)
[21:42:03] <Dominus> at least u7wizard gives you some good credibility :)
[21:42:18] <Marzo> lol
[21:42:33] <wizardrydragon> lol
[21:51:20] <Crysta> er.. sorry.. i was away for a good while there
[21:51:42] <wizardrydragon> I noticed
[21:51:59] <Crysta> i had lunch then came back and just didnt say anything tho :p
[21:52:06] <Crysta> then i got off again and just got back
[21:52:06] <Crysta> lol
[21:52:20] <wizardrydragon> lol
[21:52:26] <wizardrydragon> Well speaking of food
[21:52:29] <wizardrydragon> Dinner time
[21:52:36] * wizardrydragon runs off laughing maniacally
[21:58:29] <Marzo> I am probably reading too much into this, but here it goes in any case...
[21:58:51] <Marzo> [23:00:02] <Dominus> Marzo
[21:58:51] <Marzo> [23:00:42] <wizardrydragon> Yeah
[21:58:51] <Marzo> [23:01:01] <wizardrydragon> That's why I'm trying to fix the TFL forum, since it's the one method of communication we seem to have
[21:58:51] <Marzo> [23:01:17] <wizardrydragon> Something got thrown in the works and the database is whacked now.
[21:58:51] <Marzo> [23:01:24] <Dominus> I've never had him answer per email either :)
[21:58:53] <Marzo> [23:01:57] <wizardrydragon> Really? He and I have chatted by email before.
[21:58:55] <Marzo> [23:02:54] <Dominus> not to worry about it wasn't anything earth shattering :)
[21:59:04] <Marzo> What did you mean when you said that, Dominus?
[21:59:34] <Crysta> hi dom :P
[22:00:28] <Dominus> ah, I wrote you the "secret" passwords to the forum moderator backend not too long ago to your yahoo address and never got a reply
[22:00:53] <Marzo> I think I never got that message
[22:01:01] <Dominus> see, it wasn't anything that needed attention, just got no feedback if you actually received it
[22:01:28] <Marzo> Do you remember more or less when this happened?
[22:01:29] <Dominus> I've sent it to mrzojr at yahoo
[22:01:47] <Dominus> 30th of July
[22:02:03] <Marzo> Did you send to 'mrzojr' or to 'marzojr'?
[22:02:16] <Dominus> I was wondering if anyone else had sent it to you and felt bad if no one sent it
[22:02:26] <Dominus> marzojr
[22:02:33] <Marzo> It is not in my inbox
[22:02:46] <Crysta> maybe it got filtered somehow
[22:02:57] <Marzo> That is what I am thinking
[22:03:01] <Dominus> probably ended up in the spam folder :)
[22:03:17] <Dominus> it's from dominik.reichardt at gmail
[22:03:26] * Marzo usually finds personal e-mail in the bulk folder, but occasionally misses some...
[22:03:42] * wizardrydragon is back, by the way.
[22:03:48] <Dominus> subject was "Exult forum admin notes"
[22:04:03] <Marzo> Unfortunatelly, I clean my bulk folder in a regular basis
[22:04:18] <Marzo> I will add your e-mail to the contacts list and it won't happen again
[22:04:23] <Dominus> I'll resent it
[22:04:54] <Dominus> and it is marzojr?
[22:05:00] <Marzo> Yes
[22:05:08] <wizardrydragon> One forum to rule them all, one forum to find them all
[22:05:08] <wizardrydragon> One forum to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
[22:05:10] <wizardrydragon> :)
[22:05:13] <Marzo> @Wizardry: If you can commit, I am ready
[22:05:19] <Marzo> :-)
[22:05:24] <Dominus> I just resent it unedited
[22:05:28] * wizardrydragon will commit his map changes in just a moment.
[22:05:39] * Crysta is looking for blackrock in UO
[22:05:58] * Marzo is waiting for Wizardry's commit and for Dominus' e-mail
[22:06:14] * wizardrydragon would have been surprised if Crysta wasn't looking for blackrock in UO
[22:06:49] <wizardrydragon> Im commiting now; hold on Marzo.
[22:08:01] <Marzo> Even though I added you to the contact list, your message still got delivered to the Bulk folder
[22:08:42] <Crysta> still no idea what is supposed tobe done with it, but i fel i should collect it so the unwitting masses dont
[22:09:16] <wizardrydragon> You just want it all for yourself :)
[22:09:19] <Crysta> unfortunately i dont think im all too successful at it
[22:09:40] <Crysta> actually no.. i want to get as many asi can to outright destroy when the opportunity presents itself
[22:09:56] <wizardrydragon> So I can make you go boom when i find Rudyom's Wand?
[22:10:08] <Crysta> no, but you can make IT go boom
[22:10:09] <Crysta> lol
[22:10:53] <wizardrydragon> Aww sure rain on my parade
[22:11:21] <wizardrydragon> Almsot done, Marzo. TortiseCVS is being slow
[22:11:59] <Dominus> Marzo: it must be the bad blood between yahoo and google :)
[22:12:26] <Marzo> Possibly :-)
[22:12:51] <wizardrydragon> You may find my commit notes amusing :)
[22:12:55] <wizardrydragon> its done, btw
[22:13:20] <Crysta> not having much luck today
[22:14:50] <wizardrydragon> Only changed hfile i didsnt commit was keyring.cpr :)
[22:15:41] <Marzo> By the way: have you edited the u7chunks file or is the version in CVS due to the corruption problems that happened recently?
[22:16:00] <wizardrydragon> Due to corruption
[22:16:10] <Marzo> I will remove it then
[22:16:10] <wizardrydragon> Should remove it
[22:16:17] <wizardrydragon> lol
[22:16:28] * wizardrydragon believes great minds think alike.
[22:16:32] <Marzo> You have edited only map 2 right?
[22:16:46] <wizardrydragon> map02
[22:16:49] <Marzo> Have you added any new NPCs (I hope not...)
[22:16:53] <wizardrydragon> no
[22:17:00] <wizardrydragon> not any that werent already there
[22:17:05] <Marzo> Any non-fixed onbects?
[22:17:17] <wizardrydragon> umm do eggs count?
[22:17:18] <Marzo> *objects
[22:17:20] <wizardrydragon> if so then yes
[22:17:24] <wizardrydragon> otherwise no
[22:18:13] <Marzo> By the way: I've added the Crown Jewels to TFL too. For consistency with keyring mod, I've moved the shapes of the three main TFL NPCs to the end of shapes.vga
[22:18:28] <wizardrydragon> err
[22:18:31] <Marzo> I have re-added the NPCs, so there will be no ill effects from the switch
[22:18:34] <wizardrydragon> ah
[22:18:49] <wizardrydragon> did you muck about in portraits.vga at all?
[22:18:54] <wizardrydragon> (please say no)
[22:18:55] <Marzo> No
[22:19:01] <wizardrydragon> (thank you)
[22:19:02] <wizardrydragon> lol
[22:19:12] <Marzo> I will test it before commiting anyway
[22:19:43] <wizardrydragon> I havent made asny portraits .vga changes (yet) but im in the middle fo them and I dont wanna hasve to diff them
[22:21:11] <Marzo> And I also restore the position of all NPCs to BG default, as well as restoring the starting global flags and the initial Trinsic egg
[22:23:42] <wizardrydragon> Okay
[22:24:47] * Marzo has remembered that a new body will be needed for Mariah
[22:25:00] * Marzo will make it later, though
[22:25:09] * wizardrydragon is already working on it, having been always thinking ahead.
[22:25:40] * wizardrydragon would like to note that crysta pointed out the demon npc doesnt seem to have the correct body, but one should be in shapes.vga and there is an entry in the bodies list
[22:29:23] <Crysta> and moverover.. most of the dead" ones you placed on the map are unattackable unkillable perma-sleep ones
[22:29:45] <Crysta> unlootable too
[22:29:54] <wizardrydragon> that shouldnt be the case, theyre bodies from the original shapes.vga except the demons themselves
[22:30:21] <Marzo> You must add an entry in 'patch/bodies.txt'
[22:30:33] <wizardrydragon> I did, and it worked for a while
[22:30:40] <wizardrydragon> How and why it broke, I have no clue
[22:30:42] <Marzo> We will also need a new gump for Mariah
[22:30:51] <Crysta> :(
[22:31:04] <wizardrydragon> If you remind Crysta enough you might get a gump out of her
[22:31:32] <Marzo> Hey, Crysta: we need a gump for Mariah :-)
[22:31:35] * Marzo ducks
[22:31:52] <Crysta> no chance
[22:32:06] * wizardrydragon hads Marzo a kite sheild and suit of full plate armour.
[22:32:13] <wizardrydragon> That should be ample protection fine sir.
[22:32:13] <Crysta> ive tried before
[22:32:28] <Crysta> i can do the body but when i get to the face thats it for me
[22:32:42] <Marzo> We can paste in the old face
[22:32:52] <Crysta> plus i still dont feel much like working
[22:32:57] <Marzo> :-)
[22:34:00] <wizardrydragon> So is the commit done, Marzo?
[22:34:06] * wizardrydragon ducks behind a tower sheild
[22:34:14] <Marzo> I am adding dirs and files
[22:34:32] * Marzo uses an ethereal deathbolt
[22:34:34] <Marzo> :-)
[22:34:39] <Crysta> aw crap i never finished fixing Zhelkas
[22:35:02] * wizardrydragon is still wearing LBs crown so is safe.
[22:35:14] * wizardrydragon reciprocates the deathbolt, however.
[22:36:01] <Crysta> uh.. wouldt an ethereal deathbolt do nothing to a human?
[22:36:28] <wizardrydragon> Would you care to find out?
[22:36:34] <Marzo> You are presuming wizardry is a human :-)
[22:36:37] * wizardrydragon rubs his hands together with gleeful anticipation.
[22:36:44] <Marzo> But he is clearly a *dragon* :-)
[22:36:56] <Dominus> and who knows what marzo is coding into the deathbolt :)
[22:37:04] <Crysta> elves are better than dragons
[22:37:06] <Crysta> so ha
[22:37:11] <wizardrydragon> Dragons eat elves
[22:37:15] <wizardrydragon> They are tasty, too
[22:37:25] <wizardrydragon> Much better than, say, orcs
[22:37:35] <Crysta> i could kill a dragon if i wanted
[22:37:39] <wizardrydragon> Orcs make me want a ton of breath mints
[22:37:40] <Crysta> i just dont want my hair singed
[22:38:04] <Crysta> or missing
[22:38:17] <wizardrydragon> In any event, as I think SS proved, dragons have tendancy to not stay dead sometimes.
[22:38:39] * Marzo is coding a deathbolt that kills anyone regardless of whether or not he is wearing the Crown of Lord British. The deathbolt goes through all armor and shields and slays the target without possibility of success. :-)
[22:39:05] <wizardrydragon> Um...
[22:39:18] * wizardrydragon esticulates animatedly. "No one correct him!"
[22:40:26] <wizardrydragon> *gesticulates
[22:40:38] * wizardrydragon can't help himself.
[22:40:50] <wizardrydragon> That's an interesting deathbolt, that has no possibility of success.
[22:41:08] * Marzo meant that the deathbolt kills the target even if the *target* is wearing the Crown of Lord British
[22:42:00] <wizardrydragon> :)
[22:42:14] <Marzo> :-)
[22:43:10] <Marzo> I am having problems with cvs, by the way
[22:43:26] <wizardrydragon> Howso
[22:43:38] <Marzo> WinCVS crashed and is now refusing to complete any operations
[22:44:01] <wizardrydragon> Er thats not my issue lol
[22:44:26] <Marzo> No, but it will keep you waiting as I can't commit anything :-)
[22:44:54] * wizardrydragon notes that this is why he uses TortoiseCVS
[22:45:10] * Marzo thinks I will have to reboot :-(
[22:45:16] <wizardrydragon> Sorrow.
[22:45:19] <Marzo> It is alive!
[22:45:31] <Dominus> I never liked tortoise's way of doing things
[22:45:51] <wizardrydragon> What works, works. And WinCVS sure as hell didnt work for me :)
[22:46:01] <Dominus> I tried it for cvs, I tried it for svn and bot times uninstalled it very soon
[22:46:08] <Marzo> I never had problems with WinCVS
[22:46:17] <wizardrydragon> I never ever got it to work.
[22:46:19] <Marzo> (until now, that is)
[22:46:21] <Dominus> I've never had problems with it as well
[22:46:43] <wizardrydragon> I had less trouble setting up plain CVS under mingw
[22:46:49] <Marzo> My first time with WinCVS, I had difficulty setting up
[22:46:52] <Dominus> I really dislike having shell extensions on my system that muck up everything
[22:47:00] <wizardrydragon> And thats to say i didnt have problems setting that up :)
[22:47:03] <wizardrydragon> *not to
[22:47:11] <Marzo> The second time (changed my laptop's HD), I had no problems at all
[22:48:13] <Marzo> Re: shell extensions: Indeed; we already have enough of them from Microsoft to muck up everything :-)
[22:48:33] <Dominus> but you are right (wizard), as long as it works for you don'T change it :)
[22:48:41] <wizardrydragon> :)
[22:48:46] <wizardrydragon> What works, works :)
[22:48:54] <Dominus> right
[22:55:35] * wizardrydragon decides to stab the TFL cvs until it bleeds updates
[22:55:40] <wizardrydragon> :)
[22:56:18] <Marzo> Writing changelog
[22:57:16] <wizardrydragon> zomg -youre- actually writting a changelog?
[22:57:20] * wizardrydragon dies of shock.
[22:57:27] <Marzo> lol
[22:57:36] * wizardrydragon is dead.
[22:58:33] <Crysta> fixing zhelkas still
[22:58:57] * wizardrydragon is dead, still.
[23:01:39] <Crysta> ?me decides not to res wiz
[23:01:44] <Crysta> ..
[23:01:46] <Crysta> DANGIT
[23:02:19] * Marzo casts 'rest in peace' spell to ensure Wizardry cannot be resurrected >:-D
[23:02:35] * wizardrydragon loves you all too.
[23:02:39] <Marzo> lol
[23:02:40] <Crysta> hm....
[23:02:53] <Crysta> 3 of zhelkas's sprites have different feet
[23:04:31] <Crysta> that got a cool claw-thing going on
[23:05:09] <Marzo> Started the commit
[23:05:53] * Marzo casts 'summon shade' to talk to Wizardry's ghost
[23:06:04] <Crysta> dunno wether to keep it or not
[23:06:16] <Marzo> Which frames?
[23:06:29] <Crysta> the two-armed attack frames facing south
[23:06:45] * wizardrydragon emits a loud beep and then says "Wizardry Dragon is unavailable at the moment; please leave a message."
[23:06:47] <Crysta> last three before him bending over :p
[23:06:54] <Marzo> (which shape Zhelkas is, BTW?)
[23:07:09] <Crysta> 480
[23:07:51] <Marzo> Yes, I see it
[23:08:00] <Crysta> its only on those 3, too
[23:08:04] <Crysta> doesnt look to bad to me
[23:08:31] <Crysta> another thing they prolly wanted to do more on :P
[23:08:36] <Marzo> It looks interesting; maybe change all his sprites to have claws so we can compare? :-)
[23:08:43] <Crysta> k
[23:09:04] <Dominus> g'night
[23:09:13] <Marzo> Good night
[23:09:16] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("oh no! not again")
[23:09:36] <Marzo> Wizardry, have you made more changes to the map?
[23:09:47] * wizardrydragon not since I commited earlier
[23:10:17] * wizardrydragon notes that that is what happens when you interrupt him mid-thought.
[23:10:42] <Crysta> lol
[23:12:34] <Marzo> The commit was aborted because map02/u7map wasn't up-to-date; I have re-downloaded and am commiting again
[23:17:54] <Marzo> Commit is DONE!
[23:18:28] * wizardrydragon dies again of shock
[23:18:49] * wizardrydragon finds a way that this is possible just so he can.
[23:19:04] <Marzo> lol
[23:19:29] <Marzo> I reccommend that you create a shortcut to edit TFL more easily
[23:19:34] <wizardrydragon> Howso?
[23:20:03] <Marzo> Something along the lines of: 'C:\Ultima7\Exult.exe --bg --mod tfl --nocrc --edit'
[23:20:30] <wizardrydragon> ah I already did that
[23:20:43] <Marzo> k
[23:21:53] * Marzo is looking for an idea for a TFL icon similar to the ones he has for standard BG, BG+Keyring and SI
[23:22:03] <wizardrydragon> :)
[23:22:21] <Crysta> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/crystaelf/Imwaefage11.png tope line and the stuff on the middle right would be with the "claws"
[23:22:29] <Crysta> sorry.. this is kinda how i work.. lol
[23:23:12] <Marzo> IMHO, it looks better with the claws
[23:23:19] <Crysta> wiz?
[23:23:30] <wizardrydragon> whatthehellisdupredoinginthere?
[23:23:36] * Marzo wonders if Crysta is making use of the new ES ability to export/import all frames of a given shape
[23:23:36] <Crysta> ....
[23:23:42] <Crysta> i said THAT IS HOW I WORK
[23:23:42] <Marzo> lol
[23:23:43] <Crysta> hey
[23:23:48] <Crysta> i started this before you added that
[23:23:51] <Crysta> so ha
[23:24:29] * Marzo wonders if Wizardry Dragon has updated LB's sprite or if I will have to do it myself :-)
[23:24:37] * wizardrydragon pokes the dead half a dupre
[23:25:02] <Marzo> I will away for a while (eating)
[23:25:05] <wizardrydragon> Not yet Marzo
[23:25:12] <wizardrydragon> re adding LB that is
[23:25:23] <Marzo> k
[23:25:29] --- Marzo is now known as Marzo_away
[23:25:57] <wizardrydragon> lol
[23:25:59] <wizardrydragon> * This item does not exist.
[23:26:36] * wizardrydragon shakes fist at marzo
[23:26:46] <wizardrydragon> you ate my last few changelog entries!
[23:37:59] --- Marzo_away is now known as Marzo
[23:38:07] <Marzo> I am back
[23:38:24] <Crysta> wb
[23:38:53] * wizardrydragon is crushed that marzo ate his changelog entries
[23:39:01] <Marzo> :-)
[23:39:07] * wizardrydragon may never recover
[23:40:53] * Marzo looks in dismay at his to-do list
[23:41:03] * wizardrydragon eats his todo list
[23:41:12] <wizardrydragon> mmm ... comfort food
[23:41:42] * Marzo hopes Wizardry's to-do list was printed before being eaten :-)
[23:42:26] <wizardrydragon> Nope :D
[23:43:19] * Marzo wonders how Wizardry managed to eat a computer file :-)
[23:44:03] <wizardrydragon> mmm ... 1's and 0's
[23:44:17] <Marzo> lol
[23:53:38] * Marzo wonders why Wizardry is suddenly so quiet
[23:53:46] * wizardrydragon is tired.
[23:56:43] * Crysta wants jellybeans, but has none
[23:57:07] * wizardrydragon has jellybeans and deicdies hiding them is in order.
[23:57:12] <wizardrydragon> *decides
[23:58:28] <Crysta> >.>;