#uwadv@irc.freenode.net logs for 12 Jul 2004 (GMT)

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[15:02:59] <xeonx> hey hows the progress coming
[15:03:19] <xeonx> do u guys think youll be done within the year?
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[15:42:18] <wjp> hey Telemachos
[15:42:36] <wjp> how are things?
[15:43:59] <wjp> xeonx: um, probably not
[15:44:19] <xeonx> pretty good
[15:44:20] <wjp> maybe with some more programmers :-)
[15:44:29] <xeonx> ahh
[15:44:41] <xeonx> when do u estimate
[15:44:47] <wjp> I don't estimate :-)
[15:45:16] <xeonx> :)
[15:45:38] <xeonx> have you ever considered i full remake of UW, using a modern 3D engine
[15:46:56] <wjp> I don't think so, but LoW (low.sourceforge.net) is doing something like that for UW2
[15:47:57] <xeonx> are they rebuilding everything or using the architecture from the game
[15:48:07] <xeonx> i know that the textures are the same
[15:48:53] <wjp> hm, most likely using the world data from the original
[15:49:17] <xeonx> are u familiar with the OGRE engine
[15:49:22] <wjp> never heard of it
[15:49:53] <xeonx> its easily the most advanced open source engine out there
[15:50:05] <wjp> ogre3d.org?
[15:50:07] <xeonx> www.ogre3d.org
[15:50:14] <xeonx> yep
[15:50:19] <Telemachos> hi wjp ;)
[15:50:21] <xeonx> an open source broject
[15:50:45] <xeonx> well there is a C# port of it, which is very promising
[15:50:48] <Telemachos> quite well.. I've started hacking on UW again for the zillionth time ;)
[15:50:57] <wjp> Telemachos: yay :-)
[15:51:04] <xeonx> :)
[15:51:08] <Telemachos> does vividos still pop in here?
[15:51:17] <wjp> haven't seen him in quite a while
[15:51:43] <wjp> (no guarantees this works, but...)
[15:51:45] <wjp> ?seen vividos
[15:51:45] <exultbot> vividos left IRC around Thu Jun 17 21:13:37 2004 (GMT) ("Leaving")
[15:52:00] <xeonx> i am just woundering if the UWAdv development team would consider working on a UW I remake completely from scratch
[15:52:18] <Telemachos> hmm.. that's a while back ;)
[15:52:47] <wjp> that was also the date of the last CVS activity
[15:52:50] <wjp> :/
[15:52:59] <xeonx> utilizing shaders and rag-doll physics
[15:53:25] <wjp> xeonx: I can't speak for vividos of course, but I'm not interested personally
[15:53:33] <xeonx> of course this is just thinking later on down the road when uwadv is finished
[15:53:41] <Telemachos> I've started a kind of remake-project actually.. but with a slightly different approach that I believe has a greater chance of success
[15:54:00] <xeonx> what is it
[15:54:18] <Telemachos> Project is called "Underworld Game Creation Kit".. a toolkit for creating games *like* UW
[15:54:32] <xeonx> lol yep, that is my aproach
[15:54:48] <xeonx> sf.net/projects/realmforge
[15:54:51] <Telemachos> another project then extracts data from UW1 and converts to a format my engine uses
[15:55:02] <Telemachos> I'll take a look ;)
[15:55:06] <xeonx> great
[15:55:49] <xeonx> you could right script to do that, but for the world, but the models would be redone instead of being sprites
[15:55:55] <Telemachos> My thought are that since the UW engine is so old and complex there are so many hacks it's almost impossible to do a direct "parser" for the data
[15:56:00] <wjp> part of the distributed computing foundry? what are you planning? :-)
[15:56:34] <xeonx> its a Game Framework that can be used not just for UW type games but also any genre, MMORPG included
[15:56:40] <Telemachos> So I'll rather extract as much as possible.. then use my own tools to correct the missing bits and errors
[15:56:48] <xeonx> ahh
[15:57:11] <xeonx> im thinking that just the walls, and the placement of the objects would be extracted
[15:57:21] <xeonx> all else would be modeled
[15:57:48] <wjp> don't forget the triggers/conversations/scripts/etc...
[15:57:58] <Telemachos> I'm hoping for a bit more ;) There is ALOT of content... wjp: exactly ;)
[15:58:05] <xeonx> the existance of the Axiom and OGRE projects allows me to concentrate on the games development
[15:58:17] <xeonx> yes dialog
[15:58:26] <xeonx> that could be exported as well,
[15:58:35] <xeonx> the scripts would be written in C#
[15:58:51] <xeonx> this is a cross-platform framework thanks to the advent of Mono
[15:58:58] <Telemachos> did you ask me something a little while ago wjp? I didn't quite catch it ;)
[15:59:27] <xeonx> about Axiom?
[15:59:35] <wjp> Telemachos: hm, not as far as I can remember
[15:59:47] <Telemachos> xeonx much (if not all) of the scripting in UW is done through dialogs.. the rest is fixed behaviour through triggers/traps
[15:59:54] <Telemachos> ok ;9
[16:00:26] <xeonx> more data formats are XML for now
[16:00:41] <xeonx> they are of course compressed/encrypted when packaged into modules
[16:00:52] <wjp> encrypted??
[16:01:04] <xeonx> optionaly yes
[16:01:22] <xeonx> it doesnt take much processing and is relativly simple
[16:01:45] <wjp> what would the point be?
[16:02:13] <xeonx> there is in other games that are developed with it, if intended to be sold comercially
[16:02:26] <xeonx> so i guess it wouldnt be used in this case
[16:02:48] <wjp> but your program needs to be able to decrypt it. Therefore, the user can decrypt it...
[16:03:24] <xeonx> yea, still working on that part :)
[16:04:04] <xeonx> the point is not neccisarly to kill any possiblity of hacking
[16:04:19] <xeonx> as *all* games will be hacked if there is a want to
[16:04:39] <xeonx> its more of just to prevent the modules from being unziped using a utility
[16:04:46] <Telemachos> anyway.. my project is still pretty young (just over the weekend) but the graphics part is pretty far already.. which leads to the question I wanted to ask vividos...
[16:05:02] <Telemachos> have any of you figured out how to find the correct texture for a 'door' object?
[16:05:52] <xeonx> Telemachos, do u think that there would be any interest in developed a UW remake using RealmForge
[16:06:05] <wjp> hm, good question; I'm fairly sure it isn't implemented yet, anyway
[16:06:58] <xeonx> u can view some of the screenshots of the engine here
[16:06:59] <xeonx> http://axiomengine.sourceforge.net/modules.php?set_albumName=album02&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
[16:07:31] <xeonx> and here
[16:07:32] <xeonx> http://axiomengine.sourceforge.net/modules.php?set_albumName=album01&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
[16:08:18] <xeonx> and this is the screenshot of RealmForge
[16:08:19] <xeonx> http://xeonxstudios.com/Images/Screenshots/RF-5-Terrain.jpg
[16:08:33] <Telemachos> xeonx: maybe, not by me though :) I'm a programmer and my fun comes from creating the engine more than scripting some other engine ;)
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[16:09:21] <Telemachos> wjp: it's a bit messed up ;) I really can't find the index into the doors.gr ... and doors with same objID can have different textures.. so it's not "hardcoded" to each door based on that ID
[16:10:27] <Telemachos> xeonx: looks cool!
[16:10:51] <xeonx_> thx, the first 2 are Axiom's and i cant take credit for them
[16:11:06] <xeonx_> my part is mostly just abstract to allow games to be developed
[16:11:11] <xeonx_> abstraction*
[16:11:17] <wjp> Telemachos: do you have the uwadv sources around?
[16:11:54] <Telemachos> hmm.. I think so yes.. I'll just do a cvs update
[16:12:04] <wjp> the comments above and in the last function in source/import/maploader.cpp may be relevant
[16:12:34] <Telemachos> ok thanks.. I'll take a look!
[16:13:01] <wjp> I'm not particularly familiar with how things work, though, so I can't really judge what's relevant
[16:14:13] <Telemachos> he heh... "TODO: load texture info for doors" ;)
[16:14:48] <wjp> well, yes, but the location of that comment indicates it may have to happen in that function :-)
[16:15:11] <wjp> which might mean that the textures to be used for doors are fixed in a single level?
[16:15:27] <Telemachos> yeah ;) the rest of the function seems to read the material indices for walls and floors
[16:15:44] <xeonx_> thanks for your time, i will email Vividos
[16:16:06] <wjp> good luck with realmforge
[16:16:16] <xeonx_> thx
[16:16:23] <Telemachos> but you're maybe right... it could be some of the un-decoded blocks in the level file I guess..
[16:16:24] <xeonx_> the same for UWAdv
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[16:16:50] <wjp> the last line in that load_texinfo actually seems to do the loading, but it's commented out, so it's probably wrong :-)
[16:17:11] <wjp> (or maybe the door_textures[] array just doesn't exist yet)
[16:18:01] <Telemachos> hmm yeah... come to think of it. There are 6 different door-objects.. and there is exactly 6 "slots" left after walls and floors until a total of 64 maps per level
[16:20:40] <Telemachos> but that's only part of the puzzle anyway. It might select the 6 textures (out of a total of 12 available) to use for the 6 doors per level. But the doors themselves still needs to index that array of selected textures
[16:25:14] <wjp> hm, the 'owner' field is used to set the 'spiked' flag for doors it seems
[16:25:25] <wjp> that still leaves a number of bits in the owner field available
[16:25:33] <wjp> any idea if it could be in there?
[16:27:06] <wjp> "There are 6 different door-objects.. " : couldn't that then simply mean that the object determines the texture?
[16:28:20] <Telemachos> no, as I said - there are doors with same objectID that uses different texture... unfortunately
[16:28:44] <wjp> within the same level?
[16:29:09] <Telemachos> yes
[16:29:11] <wjp> I see
[16:30:08] <Telemachos> but maybe I should recheck to make sure I didn't make an error.. because you're right - why would there be 6 different door objects otherwise?
[16:30:43] <Telemachos> hmm.. ok, the difference could be stuff like how strong they are and how much damage they can take..
[16:35:56] <wjp> bbl, dinner
[16:36:33] <Telemachos> same here..
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[18:27:09] <Telemachos> hmm.. I think vividos is on the right track with those doors. Only instead of reading 6 16-bit values (like is out-commented in the source) he should read 6 bytes
[18:28:14] <Telemachos> I checked all levels in UW1.. those 6 bytes never exceeds the amount of available door textures and there are never two bytes that are the same.. plus they match for most doors I've written down info for..
[18:28:42] <Telemachos> maybe I should re-check that case where it breaks down ;)
[18:36:48] <Telemachos> yep.. I think I made a mistake before.. things seems to match up now
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