#uwadv@irc.freenode.net logs for 15 Sep 2002 (GMT)

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[17:42:34] <vividos> hi!
[17:42:46] * vividos is lucky because uw2 arrived today :)
[17:43:20] <wjp> hi
[17:48:20] <vividos> I hope that at least someone is alive in #wxwindows today
[17:53:47] <vividos> I almost don't dare to ask, but are there any news?
[18:04:38] <yot> :)
[18:06:55] <wjp> news? what's that? :-)
[18:10:27] * vividos grins
[18:12:10] <wjp> hm, I think I heard the uwadv lead developer got a copy of UW2 today, and that it would be supported within 3 days ;-)
[18:12:42] <vividos> hey, that's good news indeed!
[18:12:48] <wjp> indeed :-)
[18:13:33] <yot> hmm
[18:13:53] <yot> :)
[18:14:03] <vividos> oh, have to watch austin powers 2 :) I'm away
[18:14:40] <vividos> another news bit: I actually talked to someone in #wxwindows :)
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[20:26:19] <vividos|away> re
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[20:26:40] <wjp> wb
[20:38:59] <vividos> hmm, wxWindows also has sockets wrapper and interprocess communication classes
[20:39:22] <vividos> that could also be used for a connection between the underworld object and a debugger
[20:59:41] <wjp> if possible I'd like to avoid having wxWindows as a dependency for the main binary
[21:00:19] <yot> hi
[21:00:23] <wjp> (of course you could always compile a version with it disabled)
[21:00:28] <wjp> hi yot
[21:00:28] <yot> I don't know wxWindows
[21:00:30] <yot> what is it?
[21:00:39] <wjp> cross-platform GUI toolkit
[21:00:48] <yot> :/
[21:00:54] <wjp> (and apparently a sockets/ipc toolkit too :-) )
[21:01:30] <vividos> it has all sorts of stuff in it, even database stuff and such
[21:01:39] <yot> hmm
[21:02:04] <vividos> the "underworld debugger" of course should only be linked in for developers :)
[21:02:36] <vividos> or the debugger could be loaded dynamically
[21:03:22] <wjp> that's pretty much impossible to do in a portable way, isn't it?
[21:03:40] <vividos> http://www.lpthe.jussieu.fr/~zeitlin/wxWindows/docs/wxwin115.htm#wxdllloader
[21:05:31] <vividos> wherevery wxwindows runs the class is available and the debugger could run
[21:05:56] <wjp> yes, but that class already requires wxwindows?
[21:06:17] <vividos> yes, and when wxwindows isn't available, the debugger couldn't run anyway
[21:06:45] <vividos> I suppose only us devs will use the debugger (and maybe extension-builder)
[21:07:19] <wjp> or hardcore cheaters? ;-) (depending on the functionality of the debugger)
[21:07:36] <vividos> or them :)
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[21:07:57] <vividos> hardcore cheaters with knowledge how to use compilers :)
[21:07:59] <vividos> hi Dark-Star
[21:08:04] <Dark-Star> Hi
[21:09:20] <yot> hiho
[21:09:45] <yot> boar bin ich müde :/
[21:10:17] <wjp> maar het is pas 10 over 11? :-)
[21:10:55] <vividos> eerm :)
[21:12:12] <vividos> over == or, het == head, maar == my ?
[21:12:32] <vividos> my head is <pas> 10 or 11?
[21:12:40] <wjp> over = \"uber, het = es, maar = aber
[21:13:06] * vividos smiles
[21:13:16] <yot> wjp
[21:13:19] <wjp> of course, I could have interpreted the original german the wrong way... (dunno what 'boar' is...)
[21:13:19] <yot> question
[21:13:27] <yot> I know some dutch people
[21:13:34] <yot> who always call me yotje
[21:13:34] <wjp> so do I ;-)
[21:13:41] <yot> what does that mean?
[21:13:42] <yot> je
[21:13:47] <wjp> little yot
[21:13:50] <yot> :}
[21:13:58] <yot> sweet :>
[21:14:08] <wjp> I think the german -chen is similar?
[21:14:17] * vividos smiles again
[21:14:22] <yot> :}
[21:14:29] <yot> -chen or -lein
[21:14:32] <yot> vividoslein
[21:14:32] <yot> :P
[21:16:56] <yot> time for sleep
[21:16:58] <yot> I'm tired
[21:16:59] <yot> :/
[21:17:06] <vividos> 'night yot!
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[21:18:00] <vividos> aber es ist 10 nach 11? :-)
[21:18:27] <wjp> pas = nur(?)
[21:18:43] * vividos shuts up and gets back to some wxwindows code :)
[21:20:22] * wjp gets back to his geometry homework :-)
[21:20:34] <vividos> :) what is it about?
[21:20:48] <wjp> proving SL_n(\mathbf{R}) is connected, currently
[21:21:10] <wjp> (well, writing down the proof)
[21:21:29] <vividos> is it easy?
[21:21:36] <wjp> so far, yes :-)
[21:21:46] <wjp> but this is only the first week... *sigh* :-)
[21:22:30] <vividos> gladly I never have to do more than "residual" stuff
[21:22:37] <vividos> s/have/had
[21:25:42] <Dark-Star> sounds pretty difficult to me. but that might be because I don't like algebra that much :-)
[21:26:17] * wjp loves algebra :-)
[21:26:29] <wjp> it's just a pity this isn't algebra :-(
[21:26:44] * Dark-Star notices that he's forgotten quite a bit during the last few months . . .
[21:26:53] <Dark-Star> SL_n sounds like algebra to me . . .
[21:27:49] <wjp> yeah, but 'connected' is geometry/topology
[21:28:01] <Dark-Star> true...
[21:28:28] * Dark-Star tries to remember the definition of "connected"...
[21:28:50] <Dark-Star> "connected" means that every 2 points have open surrounding areas that don't intersect, right?
[21:28:59] <wjp> no, that's Hausdorff
[21:29:13] <Dark-Star> ok, then let me think again . . .
[21:29:23] <wjp> connected: there no open sets U, V, such that U intersected with V is empty, U joint with V is the full set
[21:29:39] <wjp> s/there/there are/
[21:30:20] * Dark-Star has to think about that...
[21:30:23] <Dark-Star> sounds reasonable :)
[21:32:41] <wjp> there's also path-connectedness (if there's a path between any two points)
[21:32:55] <wjp> which implies connectedness; (and which is what I'm currently proving for SL_n)
[21:33:08] <Dark-Star> yeah, that's what I was confusing it with, I think...
[21:33:10] <wjp> by proving there's a path from any matrix in there to I
[21:37:34] * Dark-Star forgot sooo much about math after the "Vordiplom" :-(
[21:39:37] <vividos> did you also study math?
[21:43:46] <Dark-Star> Actually I study CS but I've math as my "Nebenfach"
[21:44:05] <vividos> ah ok
[21:44:20] <vividos> CS == Informatik?
[21:44:32] <Dark-Star> jep
[21:44:45] <Dark-Star> computer science
[21:45:00] <Dark-Star> BTW, what's "Nebenfach" in english
[21:45:02] <Dark-Star> ?
[21:46:25] <Dark-Star> minor subject?
[21:46:35] <vividos> probably
[21:49:05] <vividos> aah, finally found what I'm looking for: http://www.anthemion.co.uk/wxworkshop/docs/html/fl/fl3.htm
[21:53:50] <vividos> seems to be we need wxwindows-2.3.2 for that :-/
[21:55:27] <wjp> shouldn't be a problem, should it?
[21:56:51] <vividos> no, but I'm rather tired to download and set that up, too
[21:59:21] <vividos> but it looks nice and could be quite useful (that dockable windows, that is)
[22:01:01] <Dark-Star> what are you up to? creating a GUI for exult?
[22:01:47] <vividos> exult?
[22:01:57] * vividos looks at the channel name
[22:02:05] <Dark-Star> ups, wrong window :)
[22:02:10] <Dark-Star> s/exult/uwadv
[22:02:17] <vividos> :)
[22:02:35] <Dark-Star> seems it's too late for me :)
[22:03:37] <Dark-Star> so why does uwadv need a GUI? You don't want to go the same direction as with exult? i.e. use the "original" interface?
[22:05:13] <vividos> I want to create a sort of a "debugger" for underworld adventures
[22:06:09] <Dark-Star> something like an "underworld studio"? ;-)
[22:06:09] <vividos> to view/modify "underworld" values and to debug lua scripts and conversation code
[22:06:25] <vividos> sort of, but more for the "devs"
[22:07:16] <Dark-Star> yes, but the map edit functionality could later be merged into it so you'd only need one program to do any kind of developing on uwadv...
[22:09:04] <Dark-Star> so why aren't you using Qt for the GUI? kick me if I should check out the logs, I'm too lazy to dig out the link ATM...
[22:19:33] <vividos> well, I think it's relatively unimportant what GUI library is used
[22:21:02] <vividos> wx
[22:21:18] <vividos> wxWindows has the features that I need, so I think I'm gonna use it
[22:23:41] <vividos> hmm, wx-2.3.2 seems to be a bit more organized as the last release :)
[22:27:06] <vividos> yay, #uwadv has more log lines than #exult today :)
[22:29:51] <vividos> wx static debug lib has 21 MB, nice!
[22:30:49] * Dark-Star looks at the homepage of wxWindows...
[22:31:13] <Dark-Star> they have quite some references ...
[22:31:47] <vividos> refs to what? programs that use it?
[22:31:57] <Dark-Star> yes. NASA, AMD, Xerox, ...
[22:32:30] <vividos> they celebrate their 10th year :)
[22:33:00] <Dark-Star> strange that you don't hear much about wxWindows... at least I didn't hear much...
[22:34:47] <vividos> in a wxWindows demo project - "Hey - you found a BIG question-mark !!"
[22:34:55] <vividos> me neither
[22:35:32] <wjp> I did hear about it before this, but not much
[22:35:48] <wjp> I think they had a banner ad on /. for a while
[22:36:07] <vividos> bah: There were memory leaks. (demo project output)
[22:36:08] <Dark-Star> yes, I have heard of it, but I thought "well, OK, yet another windowing library that's going to be used by maybe 3 programs..."
[22:37:52] <vividos> wxWindows reminded me a bit of MFC, so I took a deeper look
[22:44:35] <vividos> the new wx release with the contributed "fl" lib looks very promising. more tests tomorrow. 'night!
[22:45:22] <Dark-Star> g'night
[22:46:47] <wjp> night
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[22:58:16] <wjp> I should go too
[22:58:19] <wjp> 'night
[22:58:22] <Dark-Star> cu
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