Underworld Adventures homepage
[03:34:32] --- Maximus is now known as Sevalecan
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[04:12:55] <Megz-> hey guys...
[04:12:59] <Megz-> anyone awake?
[04:13:02] --- Megz- is now known as Megz
[04:38:25] <servus> Hi.
[05:02:38] <Megz> hi servus
[05:02:44] <Megz> When I was a child, I played ultima underworld
[05:02:47] <Megz> and it scared the crap out of me
[05:02:54] <Megz> and I've had a special place in my memory for it ever since
[05:03:15] <Megz> I've been wishing to play it, and for nearly 10 years now I've tried to play like once every year
[05:03:18] <Megz> and it never works.
[05:03:22] <Megz> savegame corrupts.
[05:03:26] <Megz> is UWadv dead forever?
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[05:11:24] <servus> UWAdv, unfortunately, has not been worked on for a very long time
[05:11:42] <servus> LoW, ( http://low.sf.net/ ) got a lot further, and looks better, but seems even more abandoned
[05:11:48] <servus> I've had great luck playing the game in DOSBox, though
[05:12:15] <servus> I've completed the game several times through DOSBox - you have to configure DOSBox for optimum performance though; the initial configuration will probably be too slow.
[05:12:48] <servus> And be sure to install the official Ultima Underworld II patch before playing!
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[05:28:45] <Megz-> servus: Every time that I try dosbox, it's so slow that I can't handle it
[05:28:51] <Megz-> even on my Core2
[05:28:54] <servus> How fast is your computer?
[05:29:01] <Megz-> 2.8ghz Core2
[05:29:11] <Megz-> 4gb mem
[05:29:24] <servus> That's plenty fast. You need to set up DOSBox the right way. An optimized config file is a hundred times faster than the stock one, for me
[05:29:30] <servus> What version of DOSBox are you using?
[05:29:35] <Megz-> could you please send it to me?
[05:29:36] <Megz-> the config?
[05:31:08] <servus> Are you on Windows or what? What version of DOSBox do you have installed?
[05:32:34] <servus> And, will you play in fullscreen mode or windowed?
[05:32:39] <Megz-> Windows
[05:32:45] <Megz-> No DOSBox is installed
[05:32:52] <Megz-> i'll play fullscreen
[05:32:58] <Megz-> I'll get the latest dosbox
[05:33:00] <servus> http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/download.php?main=1&begaming_website_session=363e430e97602ff2d63b4dd10cb587cc Download 0.72
[05:33:21] <Megz-> done
[05:34:32] <servus> Install it, and edit c:\program files\dosbox-0.72\dosbox.conf with a text editor (Notepad will be fine)
[05:34:59] <servus> Just find the line that says core=auto, and change it to core=dynamic - right below that, change cycles=auto to cycles=max
[05:35:05] <servus> That should be fast enough
[05:35:41] <Megz-> any UW specific tweaks as well?
[05:35:52] <Megz-> not just fast enough, tell me the best possible :)
[05:36:22] <servus> With your machine, it should never skip a beat :-p
[05:37:22] <Megz-> I also want to send this to a few of my friends and I'm not sure if their computers are fast or not.
[05:37:25] <Megz-> What would I advise to them?
[05:37:36] <servus> http://stygianabyss.com/uw/decomorono/index.htm
[05:37:45] <servus> Download and install the appropriate official patches for Ultima Underworld 1 and 2.
[05:38:02] <Megz-> did you try the VDMsound route ever?
[05:38:16] <Megz-> even with the patch, my save always corrupted
[05:39:03] <servus> Yes I did try VDMSound. I prefer DOSBox. Never had any corrupted save files... how do you mean corrupted?
[05:39:24] <Megz-> after an hour of playing or so, the savegame will become unloadable
[05:39:30] <Megz-> this has happened every time i've tried UW for 10 years now
[05:39:35] <Megz-> on every computer i've ever tried
[05:39:45] <Megz-> even with the patch
[05:39:55] <Megz-> it's uncanny
[05:40:07] <servus> Uh, I've never heard of that happening to anyone :P
[05:40:18] <servus> Have you been using the same hard drive for the last 10 years? :)
[05:40:18] <Megz-> if I run it now on this computer
[05:40:26] <Megz-> it will do the same
[05:40:27] <Megz-> no.
[05:40:36] <servus> Maybe you're playing in some very weird way..
[05:40:41] <Megz-> im not
[05:41:03] <Megz-> I always thought the saves were getting corrupted because the computer was too fast.
[05:41:11] <Megz-> something like that.
[05:41:12] <servus> Nah, that won't do it.
[05:41:36] <servus> You play the game, save, play more without quitting, and try to load, and it errs out? All without ever quitting?
[05:43:06] <Megz-> It will print a message on the console
[05:43:09] <Megz-> saying it's been corrupted
[05:43:13] <Megz-> the UW console/scroll
[05:43:32] <Megz-> and something goes wrong with my character too
[05:44:29] <Megz-> it's like a Red message
[05:44:52] <Megz-> last time, we tried it on my friends PC and got the same thing.
[05:46:32] <servus> Maybe it's your copy of Ultima Underworld
[05:46:40] <servus> Do you get an error code?
[05:48:12] <Megz-> maybe it is my copy, to be honest --
[05:48:21] <Megz-> i've been getting the same one from #oldwarez IRC channel forever
[05:48:39] <servus> That seems likely, since I've never heard of any such problem.
[05:48:43] <Megz-> I see that a proper UW1 was posted on the StygianAbyss site, and removed.
[05:48:53] <servus> As far as I know, UW1 was officially released for free, at http://stygianabyss.com/uw/decomorono/index.htm - download it there
[05:49:03] <Megz-> Well, the one from #oldwarez includes the original installer
[05:49:11] <Megz-> it has to decompress with their dos-based installer 1st
[05:49:14] <Megz-> LHA or whatever
[05:49:33] <Megz-> Yes the decomorono got removed
[05:49:37] <Megz-> lawyers
[05:50:43] <Megz-> I wouldn't tell anyone if you sent me the zip :P
[05:52:13] <Megz-> ..so Servus.. what was it that made this game so special?
[05:52:32] <Megz-> I remember my heart pounding
[05:52:44] <Megz-> wonderful music
[05:52:48] <servus> Designers who cared about the game.
[05:52:49] <Megz-> and just creepy all around
[05:53:04] <servus> The music was made by George Sanger, the same man who composed for The Seventh Guest, among other games.
[05:53:44] <servus> I'm sure you can still find copies of both games on eBay
[05:55:29] <Megz-> Did you work on the game?
[05:55:57] <servus> No
[06:08:12] <Megz-> a few things..
[06:08:29] <Megz-> did you notice how the music will sustain notes for a very long time
[06:08:36] <Megz-> beyond the length they should be?
[06:08:40] <Megz-> with no decay?
[06:12:56] <servus> Nope.
[06:13:57] <Megz-> the music seems to stop very briefly
[06:14:04] <Megz-> tiny dropouts
[06:14:19] <Megz-> i have a strong impression of the original music in my mind and i remember it exactly
[06:14:21] <Megz-> it was smoother
[06:14:39] <Megz-> the dropouts are just a few ms clicks
[06:15:20] <servus> What does the top of your Dosbox window say for cycles? "CPU Cycles: ###"
[06:15:39] <Megz-> fullscreen mode
[06:15:46] <Megz-> how to check in fullscreen ?
[06:16:26] <servus> Go to windowed mode.... alt-enter
[06:16:51] <servus> Oh wow it runs horribly in fullscreen :p
[06:16:53] <Megz-> CPU cycles, Max
[06:17:02] <Megz-> the Tempo is not steady on the music
[06:17:06] <Megz-> I am a musician
[06:17:10] <Megz-> it's wavering
[06:17:10] <servus> Try playing in windowed mode for a bit
[06:17:23] <servus> It was playing great for me with 0.72 until I went from windowed to fullscreen
[06:17:41] <Megz-> windowed mode is smoother
[06:17:46] <Megz-> much smoother
[06:17:58] <Megz-> how can I fix this...
[06:18:27] <servus> Checking
[06:19:09] <Megz-> the music is steady as long as I'm not moving
[06:19:27] <Megz-> if I am moving, there are clicks
[06:19:42] <Megz-> not many clicks
[06:19:45] <servus> Dang. My older versions are doing the same thing. Are you perchance using an NVidia graphics card with recent drivers?
[06:19:50] <Megz-> once per 10 seconds, but enough to bug you plenty
[06:19:55] <Megz-> once per 20s
[06:20:21] <servus> Does the game itself stutter when the music stutters, or just the music?
[06:20:31] <Megz-> right now I am on a laptop, Core2 Duo 2.2g with nvidia
[06:20:44] <Megz-> i put uw on desktop and skippin exactly the same
[06:20:58] <Megz-> no, game doesnt stutter
[06:20:59] <servus> If just the music, change blocksize=2048 to blocksize=4096
[06:20:59] <Megz-> just music
[06:21:06] <servus> Then restart dosbox
[06:21:06] <Megz-> k
[06:22:28] <servus> I see what you mean about some notes in the level 1 song seeming to be sustained forever.
[06:22:32] <servus> Maybe that's how it's supposed to be
[06:23:26] <servus> Checking the MIDI music
[06:23:47] <Megz-> same deal with the music
[06:24:14] <Megz-> on 4096 skips
[06:24:24] <Megz-> the original music didnt sound like this at all
[06:24:28] <Megz-> instruments are way too loud
[06:24:31] <Megz-> it's mixed improperly
[06:24:44] <Megz-> and other parts are way too low
[06:25:30] <Megz-> you dont hear any real brief skips in sustain notes?
[06:25:58] <servus> Only in fullscreen mode
[06:26:14] <Megz-> even on a 3x scaler it's too small for me to see
[06:26:24] <Megz-> I run in 2560x1600 resolution
[06:26:30] <Megz-> it's in a tiny box here
[06:27:00] <Megz-> and the laptop is 1920x1200
[06:27:43] <servus> You can force it. Look at the top of dosbox.conf
[06:28:05] <servus> Change windowresolution=original to windowresolution=1024x768
[06:29:00] <servus> You may need to change output=surface to output=ddraw
[06:29:39] <servus> You can choose any resolution. Just make sure you don't screw up the aspect ratio (width/height should be 1.333 or 1.6) :)
[06:30:56] <servus> If you then set scaler=advinterp3x it'll look really nice! (better than the original), but takes a more powerful computer. Yours should handle it
[06:32:04] <Megz-> i got that one on now
[06:32:10] <Megz-> first thing i did
[06:32:39] <servus> Oh. If it pops, then try scaler=none to free up some CPU :)
[06:32:45] <Megz-> k
[06:33:12] <Megz-> double buffering in fullscreen...
[06:33:13] <Megz-> ?
[06:34:13] <Megz-> was the original game in 320x240, or 320x200 ?
[06:34:22] <servus> 320x200, I believe
[06:34:56] <servus> Which is a 1.6 ratio
[06:35:51] <Megz-> I'm doing 1600x1000
[06:37:28] <Megz-> strangely enough, the cymbal/snare ends abruptly with no cutoff sometimes
[06:37:36] <Megz-> no decaya
[06:39:30] <servus> Since it outputs to the MIDI mapper, you can redirect output to a professional MIDI device.
[06:39:32] <Megz-> LOL!
[06:39:38] <Megz-> i tried to reload the game, and it's corrupted
[06:39:43] <Megz-> like always since 1997
[06:39:55] <servus> With that same version?
[06:40:02] <Megz-> With the one I just got earlier
[06:40:05] <Megz-> Underworld internal error
[06:40:10] <Megz-> Problems in object list
[06:41:17] <Megz-> I've had this error, every time I load a game, on at least 10 different PC's in different locations
[06:41:25] <Megz-> totally unrelated to eachother
[06:42:20] <servus> Can't Crunch Bad Objlist ?
[06:42:31] <Megz-> want to see a screenshot?
[06:42:32] <Megz-> one sec
[06:42:33] <servus> Sure.
[06:47:01] <Megz-> http://inpzl.com/uw1corrupt.jpg
[06:49:40] <servus> Wow.
[06:49:45] <servus> I don't know what to say.
[06:49:54] <Megz-> brand new pc
[06:49:56] <servus> http://www.quandaryland.com/jsp/dispArticle.jsp?index=821 "After that the game installed and ran like a dream, with just two more stumbles: one minor, one more problematic, but not insurmountable. The minor one was the regular alert: 'Internal error - problems in object list' that appeared almost every move between levels. It alarmed me the first time but when nothing seemed to be amiss I just ignored it from then on with no
[06:49:56] <servus> repercussions whatsoever."
[06:49:56] <Megz-> fresh install
[06:50:14] <Megz-> hm.
[06:50:19] <Megz-> You've never seen this error ever?
[06:50:29] <servus> Never.
[06:51:30] <Megz-> "I've read about some inventory problems occuring in the disk version of the game so decided to patch the game. After i did so, i started getting "Underworld internal error. Problems in object list" error whenever i split some certain stacks in my inventory or loading the game."
[06:51:46] <Megz-> You know, I don't get the error if I don't use the patch.
[06:52:02] <Megz-> did you use the patch?
[06:52:07] <Megz-> the inventory fix
[06:54:09] <servus> I don't think I ever patched UW1
[06:54:17] <servus> My current copy appears unpatched
[06:54:37] <Megz-> is your EXE from 1992 or 1993?
[06:54:53] <Megz-> the 1993 is the "patch" one
[06:55:33] <Megz-> http://www.ttlg.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-59467.html
[06:57:01] <Megz-> patch is on this page
[06:57:03] <Megz-> http://www.uo.com/archive/uw1/
[06:57:19] <servus> My EXE's date is 2004 :) Its size, however, is 561,744 bytes, whereas the patch it 554,720 bytes
[06:57:29] <Megz-> wtf.
[06:57:36] <Megz-> Oh, there's also a NTfix
[06:57:42] <Megz-> which is something not created by Origin
[06:57:53] <Megz-> you needed the NTfix otherwise it wouldnt run at all in Winxp
[06:58:14] <Megz-> may be, yours has that applied
[06:58:18] <Megz-> but it's not needed if you have dosbox
[06:58:24] <Megz-> just for vdmsound
[06:59:47] <Megz-> ...sigh,
[07:00:01] <Megz-> maybe I'll order a 486+SB16 on Ebay, and keep it in a dark closet :)
[07:00:08] <Megz-> these 2 games are worth it
[07:00:43] <Megz-> a dedicated UWbox
[07:01:22] <servus> Maybe you have bad computer karma, and UW will always pick up on that
[07:01:46] <Megz-> yes, you are right, I think UW had real magic inside
[07:02:01] <servus> Ultima VIII: Pagan recaptured that for me.
[07:02:11] <Megz-> like a magicbook, depending on who uses it, it changes
[07:02:44] <Megz-> U8 didnt work for you and had bad karma?
[07:03:25] <servus> No. It worked fine; I loved it; I completed it several tiems.
[07:15:04] <Megz-> servus, man
[07:15:10] <Megz-> thanks for all the help.
[07:15:20] <Megz-> it's getting late here in north hollywood ;)
[07:15:52] <Megz-> well, studio city they call it
[07:15:56] <Megz-> i see you are in the valley or so
[07:16:02] <Megz-> lsanca
[07:16:28] <servus> I'm in Santa Monica
[07:16:45] <servus> Well, east - Wilshire & Barrington
[07:16:45] <Megz-> cool
[07:17:05] <Megz-> Ventura & Lankershim
[07:17:15] <servus> My coworker Veronica lives there
[07:17:18] <Megz-> i'm a few blocks from universal studios
[07:17:49] <Megz-> btw
[07:18:06] <Megz-> i was really surprised to see some UW fans here in this chan.
[07:18:14] <Megz-> IRC is diverse.
[07:19:15] <servus> Well, it IS a UW channel :)
[07:19:29] <Megz-> Rather I mean, I was really surprised to see the chan exist at all
[07:20:44] <servus> Well :)
[07:21:05] <Megz-> eh I'll idle here and see what you guys are up to
[07:21:10] <servus> I was disappointed that UWAdv fell through. It's open source and someone could finish it, though. It would be a great platform for a build-your-adventure.
[07:21:19] <servus> What we're up to? I think you're the first to speak in months.
[07:22:28] <Megz-> the problem is, uwadv would be harder to finish than it would be to start over
[07:22:32] <Megz-> and do it in Ogre3d instead
[07:23:36] <servus> Ogre3D. Ugh. Prepackaged solutions like that never end up in finished projects for a reason :-p
[07:23:55] <Megz-> Ogre3d is absolutely incredible.
[07:23:55] <servus> Anyway, UWAdv is really about done, except for some minor decoding and basic footwork.
[07:24:35] <Megz-> amazing stuff in ogre3d, huge community, heavy duty code gone into all the stuff like paging landscape scene manager
[07:24:37] <Megz-> portals, etc
[07:25:18] <Megz-> it's the most advanced 3d engine out there besides commercial stuff like Unreal
[07:25:50] <Megz-> And it's designed for pros.
[07:26:19] <Megz-> full abstraction of the shader interface as well
[07:27:07] <Megz-> nowadays Ogre3d is putting out more finished projects than anything
[07:27:30] <Megz-> commercial games even
[07:27:40] <Megz-> with rapid development
[07:28:57] <Megz-> and it's not prepackaged, but modular.
[07:29:54] <Megz-> Here are some of the pieces that work with Ogre...
[07:29:55] <Megz-> http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/Libraries
[07:31:26] <servus> I wouldn't have Ugh'd at Ogre3D if I weren't familiar with it :)
[07:31:49] <Megz-> I've built my whole company around Ogre
[07:32:01] <Megz-> it saved us 5+ years of code
[07:33:41] <servus> That's good, then :)
[07:33:52] <Megz-> new employees love it too
[07:33:58] <Megz-> they get right into development after a week
[07:35:56] <Megz-> could get the UW levels loading, rendering, and walking around in Ogre in probably 1 day
[07:36:10] <Megz-> ill do that tomorrow
[07:36:27] <servus> That's the easy part :) ~ I did that in QBASIC in the 90's :-p
[07:37:22] <Megz-> the hard part is the gamelogic
[07:37:40] <Megz-> thats why I said you might as well start over with UWADV
[07:37:45] <Megz-> because its renderer is useless
[07:37:56] <Megz-> and only takes a few days to surpass
[07:38:19] <Megz-> but uwadv's game code would be good to start with
[07:38:33] <servus> The hardest part of doing these sorts of games is decoding the bytecode used for the in-game scripting engines, decoding data file formats, and tuning everything to perfectly emulate previous behaviour.
[07:38:45] <servus> A lot of progress has been made with that, in UWAdv, and LoW
[07:38:46] <Megz-> yes
[07:38:54] <Megz-> exactly
[07:41:34] <servus> Take a look at LoW for a more complete engine.
[07:41:38] <Megz-> k
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[08:29:10] <servus> Kk, superlatentired. Night! Good to meet a fan :)
[08:30:33] <Megz-> hey good to meet man
[08:33:15] <Cahaan> personally I'm playing it on my PDA :)
[08:33:35] <Cahaan> some company ported it for Pocket PC's (windows)
[08:36:04] <Cahaan> great game, great music, great gameplay
[08:36:26] <Cahaan> I think I finished the game 4 times
[08:41:40] <Cahaan> first time with the walkthrough - not an easy game
[08:41:54] <Cahaan> actually UW is my fav game of all time
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[18:17:17] <Megz> servus: What do I want for UW?
[18:17:26] <Megz> servus: a DX-33, a DX2-66, or a DX50?
[18:17:50] <Megz> also, which sound card...
[18:17:55] <Megz> gravis, Sb pro, or sb 16?
[18:28:33] <Sevalecan> any windows machine could play underworld fine ;)
[18:33:57] <Megz> Sevalecan: You mean any windows 3.1 machine?
[18:44:30] <Sevalecan> I mean any windows machine.
[18:44:46] <Sevalecan> beside, windows 1 through 98 and i think me too was still based on DOS
[18:45:17] <Sevalecan> if a game doesnt work with windows running, you just "restart in ms-dos mode"
[18:51:23] <Megz> No, not any windows machine
[18:51:41] <Megz> 1) the tempo of music in DOSBOX is "unstable"
[18:51:54] <Megz> and the sustain of notes is wrong.
[18:52:04] <Megz> there's no proper mixing levels
[18:52:09] <Megz> and sounds get cut off
[18:52:14] <Megz> and click no matter how fast a computer.
[18:52:24] <Megz> it sounds terrible.
[18:52:36] <Megz> Also, UW corrupts in VDMsound
[18:52:37] <Sevalecan> dosbox is an emulator
[18:52:40] <Sevalecan> emulators are garbage
[18:52:49] <Megz> well how else are you supposed to run UW
[18:53:01] <Sevalecan> underworld will run in straight windows
[18:53:04] <Megz> nope
[18:53:04] <Sevalecan> even in NT with a patch
[18:53:05] <Sevalecan> though
[18:53:09] <Sevalecan> I cant vouch for sound
[18:53:11] <Megz> I've used the patch
[18:53:18] <Megz> the sound is so unusable it makes the game unplayable
[18:53:57] <Megz> also, if you run UW in NT with the NTfix, the movement/smoothness is all fucked up
[18:54:08] <Megz> it doesn't move even close to how the original did, and is unplayable
[18:54:15] <Sevalecan> I've never had a problem with it.
[18:54:30] <Megz> probably because you don't know how the original was?
[18:54:51] <Sevalecan> all I had was the original.
[18:54:57] <Megz> No, I mean,
[18:55:02] <Megz> you probably never played it on a 486
[18:55:02] <Sevalecan> what, do you think I'm playing some half assed version of uwadv? ;)
[18:55:08] <Sevalecan> Oh, but I did.
[18:55:13] <Sevalecan> my mother had a nice 486 too :D
[18:55:19] <Sevalecan> with a sound blaster and everything
[18:55:19] <Megz> well then you arent remember how it moved ;/
[18:55:30] <Sevalecan> I can understand it moving laggy for you
[18:55:32] <Sevalecan> but it didnt for me
[18:55:35] <Megz> not laggy
[18:55:38] <Sevalecan> it always played smooth and quick
[18:55:40] <Megz> the opposite
[18:55:45] <Sevalecan> not too fast.
[18:55:49] <Megz> it moves wrong.
[18:55:51] <Megz> plain and simple
[18:56:03] <Megz> try it on your 486 and you'll see.
[18:56:05] <Sevalecan> you cannot define my gameplay experience.
[18:56:20] <Megz> doesnt matter who you are
[18:56:24] <Megz> it's same on all modern PC's
[18:56:33] <Megz> there arent exceptions
[18:56:41] <Sevalecan> I'm sorry, but you can't make that mistake until you try it on all "modern PC's"
[18:56:57] <Megz> i've tried at least 10
[18:57:00] <Sevalecan> pluralization doesn't require an apostrophe, and my computer doesn't require your consent to run correctly.
[18:57:17] <Sevalecan> anyway, I'm just going to start being an ass
[18:57:20] <Sevalecan> so I'll stop talking now
[18:57:21] <Megz> I think you're simply not picky, and don't mind broad-strokes "like UW"
[18:57:21] <Sevalecan> bye.
[18:57:35] <Megz> ie, it "works"
[19:03:00] <Sevalecan> I submit to you, that your computer invariably makes you stubborn.
[19:03:16] <Sevalecan> and wrong.
[19:03:19] <Sevalecan> all modern PCs do.
[19:03:25] <Sevalecan> ok, I'm done... really.
[19:03:48] <Megz> we've tried many timed
[19:03:50] <Megz> my buddies
[19:03:57] <Megz> nobody has ever been able to get it to work
[19:04:04] <Megz> like it's supposed to
[19:04:13] <Sevalecan> well, I'm sorry you've not had a good experience with it
[19:04:26] <Sevalecan> but I don't like being told against what I've seen on my computers that my game doesn't play right
[19:04:28] <Megz> nah, I just have a good memory.
[19:04:29] <Sevalecan> when I know it does.
[19:04:34] <Megz> for details
[19:04:39] <Sevalecan> yes, memory of *my* past experiences
[19:04:40] <Sevalecan> bullshit.
[19:05:05] <Megz> no matter what sound isnt correct
[19:05:08] <Megz> notes cut out
[19:05:11] <Sevalecan> it may not play right for you, but it always did for me no matter where I was, and you are in no place to contest that
[19:05:19] <-- Sevalecan has left #uwadv ("Leaving")
[19:05:39] <Megz> hehe, he cant remember ;/
[21:11:50] <Cahaan> never managed to run UW on my most recent computer. Happily I have a Pocket PC and it runs perfectly on it
[21:12:06] <Cahaan> with original music/sounds
[21:12:27] <Cahaan> (it's the original game which has been adapted for Pocket PC in fact)
[22:18:50] <Megz> Cahaan is it higher res than the original?