#uwadv@irc.freenode.net logs for 1 Feb 2003 (GMT)

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[00:49:05] --> I440r has joined #uwadv
[00:49:14] <I440r> does uwadv require sdl ?
[00:54:47] <I440r> seems not (phew) but it does need libstdc++5 :P
[01:18:51] --> Servus has joined #uwadv
[01:19:38] <I440r> hi Servus - are you part of the devel team for this game?
[01:19:44] <I440r> or involved at all ?
[01:19:46] <Servus> yes
[01:19:51] <Servus> at "involved at all" :-)
[01:20:36] <Servus> ive made some 3d models for it, and... gotten the game code to compile on my comp hah:P
[01:20:39] <I440r> cool - i installed but but cant run it because it requires libstdc++5 which is also being installed now
[01:20:45] <I440r> will it work on my 800x600 laptop ?
[01:20:48] <Servus> the bottom of my bun disappeared:-/
[01:21:05] <Servus> it defaults to 640x480 resolution, so it should...
[01:21:26] <Servus> not sure if it requires 3d acceleration, but i think if your laptop doesnt have that, opengl will emulate it ( i believe )
[01:21:28] <I440r> erm my laptop cannot do 640x480
[01:21:35] <I440r> unless thats a window in x
[01:21:40] <Servus> in a window
[01:21:42] <I440r> is it ?
[01:21:50] <Servus> it defaults to window'd mode
[01:21:51] <I440r> laptop is an amd k6-3/500
[01:22:04] <I440r> erm 550 even
[01:22:04] <I440r> this all sounds good :)
[01:22:07] <Servus> the graphics are not currently cutting-edge, should work :-)
[01:22:29] <I440r> im REALY glad it doesnt require sdl - ive not goten a SINGLE game that uses sdl to work so i just purged all sdl related libs
[01:22:47] <Servus> oh, it does require SDL
[01:22:54] <Servus> :-P
[01:23:00] <I440r> super duper high resolution graphis are BOTTOM of my list for a game
[01:23:04] <Servus> are you trying to compile or just run it?
[01:23:06] <I440r> it didnt require sdl to install it
[01:23:12] <I440r> i installed the binary
[01:23:16] <Servus> what platform are you on
[01:23:31] <I440r> i converted a binary rpm into a .deb :)
[01:23:34] <I440r> debian sarge
[01:23:42] <Servus> oh, windows here so its easier for me to get stuff to run :-)
[01:25:07] <I440r> heh
[01:25:13] <I440r> but easier to crash too :P
[01:25:26] <Servus> no
[01:25:36] <Servus> i havent havent crashed in months
[01:26:25] <I440r> uwadv: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3' not found (required by uwadv)
[01:26:38] <I440r> Sorry, libc6 is already the newest version.
[01:26:43] <I440r> libc6 is installed
[01:26:44] <I440r> grrrr
[01:26:55] <Servus> hmm
[01:27:00] <Servus> sorry im not a Debianite ;-(
[01:28:43] <Servus> try http://LoW.sourceforge.net
[01:29:12] <Servus> same thing, but for UW2, and i think it looks a bit more polished as of yet :-)
[01:29:28] <Servus> as far as i know, they have completely distinct engines, so maybe it'll work for you
[01:30:41] <I440r> i cant run it
[01:31:01] <I440r> it requires glibc 2.3 and THAT would require a dist-upgrade to sid
[01:31:18] <I440r> and if i start now and leave it running i can just about manage to accommplis that in about a MONTH
[01:31:30] <I440r> thats about a month of 24/7 downloading
[01:32:25] <I440r> you ppl should offer a statically linked version :P
[01:32:37] <I440r> i could probably grab that in 3 or 4 days of 24/7 download
[01:33:30] <Servus> well
[01:33:36] <I440r> and i was realy looking forward to playing this :(
[01:33:42] <Servus> im not actually a programmer on this project, leave a message to eldron
[01:33:49] <Servus> and right now uwadv is just really a tech demo
[01:34:00] <I440r> i know :P
[01:34:07] <Servus> very alpha, though uw2:low is almost playable :-)
[01:34:41] <I440r> how did they get origin to give them permission to use the graphics ?? :)
[01:34:58] <I440r> i want to do a port of BlueBytes The Settlers
[01:35:06] <I440r> NOT the settlers 2,3,4,5,6,6,7,8,9,9,298457826792
[01:35:13] <Servus> i loved that game hehehe
[01:35:16] <I440r> just the original game. none of the othes would be worth the effort
[01:35:22] <Servus> my brother and i would play splitscreen on teh same comp, with two mice plugged in
[01:35:30] <I440r> the original settlers is absolutely the best game ever written
[01:35:35] <Servus> and im not sure if uwadv has licensing, but i believe LoW does, so says their sourceforge page at least
[01:35:42] <I440r> do this - if you still have the game
[01:35:45] <Servus> i dont
[01:35:55] <I440r> send as many knights against an enemy hut
[01:36:00] <I440r> say 40 or 50
[01:36:08] <I440r> when you win watch each knight go in
[01:36:28] <I440r> when the second knight goes in attack another hut using ONLY knights close too
[01:36:44] <I440r> the second knight will then be scheduled to come out of the newly aquired hut and go attack again
[01:36:52] <I440r> as the thrid knight goes in repeat this
[01:36:59] <I440r> then again as each knight enters the hut
[01:37:05] <Servus> they multiply?
[01:37:10] <I440r> no
[01:37:17] <I440r> you attack a hut and win
[01:37:22] <I440r> the first knight goes in
[01:37:26] <I440r> then the second knight goes in
[01:37:33] <I440r> you immediatly attack another hut
[01:37:41] <I440r> and the second knight is scheduled to go on that attack
[01:37:56] <I440r> he therefore becomes "not in the hut"
[01:38:02] <I440r> he becomes "on his way out"
[01:38:09] <I440r> you do this for all 40 or 50 knights
[01:38:31] <I440r> and when all the knights finish entering the hut you watch ALL 40 0r 50 come out of that 3 man hut and go attack the next
[01:38:38] <I440r> you can relay your knights from hut to hut
[01:38:53] <I440r> instead of having to wait for them to go back to the castle and filter bac to the front line huts :)
[01:39:01] <I440r> im an EXPERT at the settlers :)
[01:39:01] <Servus> when my brother and i played the game, we couldnt even figure out how to get them to move around :_)
[01:39:20] <I440r> lol i played the settlers 14 hours a day for 2 years :)
[01:39:28] <I440r> i baught it so i had the manual
[01:39:40] <I440r> learning how to play the game effectivly without the manual is impossible
[01:39:48] <Servus> heh
[01:39:57] <Servus> never really did the 14 hour thing ;)
[01:40:02] <I440r> i do have to say tho that the original ultima games were far better than the 3d versions
[01:40:14] <I440r> ultima underworld etc were ok
[01:40:25] <I440r> but after ultima 5 they all turned to shit
[01:40:30] <I440r> kiddie games
[01:40:46] <I440r> i think ultima 3, 4 and 5 were the best ultima games
[01:41:00] <I440r> i wont have anything to do with ultima underworld
[01:41:22] <I440r> not unless he makes playing the game FREE
[01:41:41] <I440r> buy the game and you get infinite free online time
[01:41:51] <I440r> but he charges for online time im told
[01:42:18] <Servus> umm
[01:42:25] <Servus> UW2 was the best ultima game in my opinion ;)
[01:42:45] <Servus> online? i think youre mistaken ;)
[01:42:52] <Servus> are you thinking of ultima online?
[01:43:06] <Servus> ultima 7 and the underworlds are generally considered the best ultimas
[01:45:02] <I440r> i didnt like any ultimas after 5
[01:45:16] <Servus> did you actually play ultima 7? :-)
[01:45:16] <I440r> and yes i meant ultima online
[01:45:32] <Servus> ultima online is free... if you dont play on the Origin servers
[01:45:36] <I440r> no. i took one look at the crappy isometric view and deleted it:P
[01:45:50] <Servus> crappy isometric view? its graphics were way of it its time
[01:46:27] <I440r> no. the view looked shitty to me
[01:46:27] <I440r> i preferd ultimas 3 4 and 5
[01:46:27] <I440r> i preferd ultimas 3 4 and 5
[01:46:39] <I440r> i pirated ultima 7 and if i had liked it i would have baught it
[01:46:47] <I440r> instead i deleted it after about half an hour
[01:47:03] <I440r> it just didnt have the same FEEL
[01:47:14] <I440r> back to ultima online - they dont charge you for online time ?
[01:47:24] <I440r> i as sure they did lol
[01:47:50] <I440r> right now i dont have much time for games realy, ive been developing a forth compiler for linux
[01:48:00] <I440r> she compiles about a meg of source per second atm
[01:48:10] <I440r> which will probably get slower as i add some features
[01:48:21] <I440r> but all features are optionable :)
[01:48:38] <Servus> UO charges you per month
[01:48:49] <I440r> erm thats what i thunked
[01:48:52] <Servus> thats to play on the company servers tho -- there are pirate servers that you can log onto
[01:49:01] <I440r> sorry, if i buy a game i dont want any recuring charges to play it
[01:49:08] <I440r> to hell with that
[01:49:18] <I440r> pirate ?
[01:49:35] <Servus> people create server software from scratch, for other peoples' UO clients to log onto
[01:49:41] <Servus> quite impressive, actually
[01:49:57] <I440r> i pirate many a game/application, if i dont like it i delte it - if i like it i buy it
[01:50:11] <I440r> i regged a86/d86 and the interactive disassembler
[01:50:19] <Servus> i dont mean pirate like that
[01:50:20] <I440r> and ive baught many a great game
[01:50:24] <I440r> oh ok hhe
[01:50:31] <I440r> i wouldnt support that sort of piracy
[01:50:35] <Servus> yes you do
[01:50:39] <Servus> you just said you do;P
[01:50:41] <I440r> being a developer it sort of goes against the grain
[01:50:50] <I440r> no. because if i liked the software i baught it
[01:50:56] <I440r> i piratged ultima 3.
[01:51:07] <I440r> then baught it
[01:51:10] <Servus> thats not a good philosophy however...
[01:51:13] <I440r> then baught 4 and 5 when they came out
[01:51:14] <I440r> no
[01:51:24] <Servus> just because you buy a game once in a while doesnt make up for all the others you've stolen
[01:51:26] <I440r> but i wanted to test it before i paid
[01:51:37] <I440r> no - borrowed heh
[01:51:50] <I440r> i didnt actually BREAK the rules, just bent them,a little
[01:51:58] <I440r> im too honest
[01:51:58] <Servus> im sure you gain some amount of enjoyment from nearly every game you download, yet you pay for a very, very small portion of those, yes?
[01:52:19] <I440r> if i like it enough to keep playing i buy
[01:52:23] <I440r> if i dont i delete
[01:52:38] <Servus> justifications don't make something right
[01:52:42] <I440r> and there are some games i just go out and buy
[01:52:44] <I440r> correct
[01:52:57] <I440r> its not 100% cosher
[01:53:05] <I440r> coscher ? erm
[01:53:08] <I440r> however you spell it hhe
[01:53:42] <Servus> kosher
[01:53:43] <I440r> i play very few games, i dislike most
[01:53:45] <Servus> and "bought"
[01:53:46] <I440r> thats it :)
[01:53:52] <I440r> erm my speling is shit :P
[01:53:59] <I440r> thats why my compiler has no documentation heh
[01:54:46] <I440r> anyway, i only download a game when i think it has possability and if i like it i DO buy it
[01:55:11] <I440r> so im just bad, not evil heh
[01:55:41] <Servus> nitzche says that evil is the justification of one's wrong for personal benefits
[01:55:41] <I440r> it sort of goes against the grain for a coder to steal the hard work of another coder
[01:56:05] <I440r> deep :)
[01:56:42] <I440r> i bet if origin knew i pirated ultima 3 and then went out and bought it the next day they wouldnt be mad at me for it
[01:57:02] <I440r> i didnt need to pirate ultima 4 or 5 because i KNEW they were worth the money
[01:57:04] <Servus> the only game youve mentioned so far is ultima 3
[01:57:15] <Servus> and that is not individually sold anymore
[01:57:18] <Servus> but you still can buy it
[01:57:40] <I440r> i also pirated the settlers german version because the english version hadnt been released yet - the day it was released i bought it
[01:57:57] <I440r> yes - you can get it in a 3/4/5 package or something
[01:58:01] <I440r> all 3 together
[01:58:15] <Servus> 1-8 together
[01:58:24] <I440r> that game is still worth every penny it earns origin
[01:58:45] <I440r> i dont have any of the ultima games any more
[01:58:57] <Servus> i bought ultima 7 three times
[01:59:01] <I440r> :)
[01:59:08] <I440r> for 3 different architectures ?
[01:59:08] <Servus> i am justified to pirate it, you're not ;-)
[01:59:19] <Servus> i kept losing the disks
[01:59:25] <I440r> i dont NEED to pirate it.
[01:59:30] <I440r> i didnt like it
[01:59:47] <I440r> thats why you make backups
[02:00:12] <Servus> floppy disks dont last...
[02:00:27] <I440r> copy to a backup :P
[02:00:38] <I440r> i gotta walk my doggiez, they are nagging me :)
[02:00:39] <I440r> brb
[02:01:52] <Servus> bye
[02:41:45] <-- I440r has left IRC ("Reality Strikes Again")
[03:03:39] <Servus> pirating wanker
[03:03:40] <Servus> :P
[10:02:50] <Eldron> lol..
[10:07:48] <Servus> he lives!
[10:13:16] <Eldron> heh, finally found a raytracer I can use with blender..
[10:13:54] <Eldron> http://eldron.20m.com/newstuff/yafray_test_2.jpg tried it on a random object..
[10:14:22] <Servus> :)
[10:14:33] <Servus> that is pretty
[10:15:20] <Servus> the graininess is a strange artifact, but not a negative one... whats the screen depth? i see the jpg is 24bps, but it appears to be rendered lower
[10:16:35] <Eldron> dunno.. the grain effect is because of certain things I put at lower quality, for it to render faster..
[10:17:18] <Eldron> http://eldron.20m.com/model/smor_wip3.jpg this is the model in blenders scanline renderer..
[10:19:43] <Servus> ah
[10:19:58] <Servus> the yafray one is more aesthetically pleasing, i believe
[10:21:01] <Servus> the yafray one looks a bit more 2d, tho i believe thats just a lighting issue:)
[10:21:15] <Eldron> yea, just a simple hemi-light
[10:21:29] <Eldron> and another angle too
[10:22:11] <Servus> have you ever made an algorithm to compute normals for an arbitrary mesh before?
[10:22:13] <Servus> its painful
[10:22:38] <Eldron> hmm, I do not think I've been through that process, and I hope I never will
[10:23:08] <Servus> its pain, but ive almost got it done :)
[10:23:37] <Servus> i am... learning tons about cross products :) (ICKKKK)
[10:24:13] <Servus> you only have point lights in uwadv, huh? :-) no directional lighting and thus no need for normals ja?
[10:24:26] <Servus> ill let you borrow my CPoint class when i'm done, if you wish
[10:25:12] <Eldron> eh.. dunno, Im just an artist, I dont touch the code :)
[10:26:48] <Servus> no? i thought you were a coder
[10:27:04] <Servus> ive stopped doing art of UW til i get some feedback:P
[10:27:13] <Servus> cuz otherwise i assume it's not wanted
[10:29:40] <Eldron> well, I can give you some if you really want it :)
[10:30:32] <Eldron> hmm, wait, I already gave you feedback some time ago <:)
[10:31:06] <Servus> is it bad?:P
[10:31:39] <Eldron> well, its just good, nothing bad with it :) but it was done with an insane speed too.. compared to me atleast :)
[10:32:01] <Servus> i used to make HL models for people within hours so i got good at the quick-and-dirty aspect of modelling :-)
[10:32:24] <Servus> im not exactly one of the Brothers Hildebrandt, though :-(
[10:33:21] <Servus> ever finish your gazer? i wanna see:-)
[10:33:54] <Eldron> its missing the leg textures and some scales.. I haven't done any 3d or 2d for a long time now :/
[10:34:01] <Servus> leg?
[10:34:07] <Eldron> the arms
[10:34:09] <Servus> how big will your texture be?
[10:34:18] <Eldron> hmm, that texture, 256x256
[10:34:23] <Servus> ah
[10:34:51] <Servus> consider making it in 512x512, keeping in mind how easy it is to do a super-high-quality downsampling of an image to, say, 256x256 nowadays :-)
[10:35:09] <Servus> and if you downsize the image, you wont have to feck with the model at all, the texture coordinates wont be screwed up
[10:35:28] <Servus> since texture coordinates are saved on a percentage, and not pixel, basis
[10:35:42] <Eldron> well, I do that
[10:35:49] <Servus> wheres coren? i saw him the other day but he didnt speak :-/
[10:36:14] <Eldron> dunno, I've been away myself I think, must be one of his 'away' periods..
[10:36:58] <Servus> i guess
[10:37:05] <Servus> id like to enquire on the status of the project
[10:37:12] <Servus> i really dont want to be working on vapourware:-/
[10:37:36] <Eldron> its not vapourware, its still being worked on, at a slower rate, as it always have been
[10:39:30] <Servus> humm
[10:39:38] <Servus> well i like to at least read dev-logs:)
[10:46:45] <Eldron> ah, found an unwrap script for blender, just what I need
[10:47:41] <Eldron> blender even has its own 'power' now X)
[10:47:42] <Servus> ive never used blender, is it good? :)
[10:48:01] <Eldron> servus, well, I haven't used many other programs, but its fast to work with, though lacking features..
[10:48:38] <Servus> 3dmax is chock-full of features... what is it missing/
[10:50:30] <Eldron> well, blender lacks lots of stuff, certain mesh editing tools, a raytracer, proper exporting, and other stuff..
[10:51:13] <Servus> 3dmax exports to everything and a monkey, its just expensive:-)
[10:51:33] <Eldron> heh yea,.. where as blender is royalty free to use and open sourced :P
[10:51:41] <Servus> so is MilkShape
[10:51:59] <Servus> milkshape is a much more agressively-maintained open source project, look into it
[10:52:27] <Servus> or just pirate 3d max if youre a pirating wanker like I440r:P
[10:52:29] <Eldron> wasn't milkshape shareware?
[10:52:39] <Servus> no, freewre i believe
[10:53:11] <Eldron> heh, thats one of the main reasons I haven't used 3dmax.. I dont want to remember 'how I became an l337-artist" on a pirated version <:)
[10:53:51] <Eldron> "MilkShape 3D is shareware. This means that we have made the software available to you for free evaluation. The trial period is 30 days."
[10:54:08] <Eldron> only thing that milkshape is better than blender at is exporting and importing..
[10:55:22] <Servus> i have a legit version of 3dmax, im speshul (short bus style):-B
[10:55:38] <Eldron> heh :)
[10:55:48] <Servus> but i really do, i can even show you my dongle:P
[10:55:53] <Eldron> lol..
[10:56:10] <Servus> im serious hah
[10:57:02] <Servus> ok i really need to go home, bye :(
[10:58:08] <Eldron> bye
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