#uwadv@irc.freenode.net logs for 20 Feb 2003 (GMT)

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[05:18:35] <EmpireX> hello there eldron!!
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[10:42:52] <Eldron-> hello servus
[10:43:57] <Servus> hello how goes it
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[19:32:43] <EmpireX> hello there!!
[19:32:53] <EmpireX> is anyone not a bot here? :)
[19:33:04] <EmpireX> *itz like my catch line now heheheheh*
[19:34:47] <wjp> hi
[19:35:09] <wjp> there's only one bot in this channel :-)
[19:35:25] <exultbot> me, obviously ;-)
[19:35:31] <EmpireX> lol
[19:35:37] <EmpireX> and the bot is talking?
[19:35:48] <EmpireX> well, first of all could you please check this website
[19:36:45] <EmpireX> http://users.tpg.com.au/ron3sun/main.htm
[19:37:08] <wjp> ah, that one :-)
[19:37:11] <EmpireX> we are also hosted by rpgplanet.com/morrowind now but that site is still being developed
[19:37:25] <EmpireX> yes. i am DarkIllusion. :)
[19:39:07] <EmpireX> we basically developed a UW editor with the Morrowind Editor. lol
[19:39:13] <wjp> :-)
[19:39:40] <EmpireX> could i ask whether the levelto3ds is still being worked on?
[19:40:17] <wjp> hm, you really need to talk to vividos about this, I think
[19:40:25] <wjp> but AFAIK it is
[19:40:34] <wjp> at least vividos showed me some new screenshots not too long ago
[19:41:34] <EmpireX> you couldn't have some changes made to it within the week could you? before our release is due? *hopeful*
[19:41:46] <EmpireX> is vividos here?
[19:41:53] * wjp looks around
[19:41:53] <wjp> no ;-)
[19:42:02] <EmpireX> there is only two reasons why we can't use it
[19:42:04] <wjp> any particular changes?
[19:42:10] <EmpireX> the architecture is perfect
[19:42:18] <EmpireX> i haven't seen UW better converted
[19:42:33] <EmpireX> but for the high walls, the lower parts are untextured
[19:42:38] <EmpireX> that is one problem
[19:43:06] <EmpireX> so maybe vividos could get some texture tiling there. please dont have it stretched like the uwviewer does it
[19:43:34] <EmpireX> and second, could vividos have the water separated from the level itself
[19:43:39] <wjp> hmm... I vaguely remember something about a conversation about texture tiling on walls
[19:43:50] <Dark-Star> Some of the UW textures don't look good when tiled. Tried it myself just yesterday ;-)
[19:43:51] <EmpireX> so one mesh for the water, and another mesh for the rest of the level
[19:44:05] <EmpireX> no no no
[19:44:08] <EmpireX> not that tiling
[19:44:26] <EmpireX> just have it normally textured over the lower part of the walls
[19:44:45] <EmpireX> i imported the 3ds into 3dsmax, and for the high walls, the lower parts are just gray
[19:45:06] <EmpireX> the uwviewer just fixed it by stretched the top textures all the way down to the bottom
[19:45:11] <EmpireX> and it looks horrible. :((
[19:45:13] <Dark-Star> yes, I know, as I said I tried it yesterday.
[19:45:42] <wjp> did you try tiling or stretching?
[19:45:47] <EmpireX> hmm...so it cant be fixed then?
[19:45:47] <Dark-Star> tiling. not all textures are seamless
[19:45:53] <EmpireX> NO STRETCHING PLEASE!!
[19:45:55] <EmpireX> :)
[19:46:05] <wjp> I think you got the point across ;-)
[19:46:07] <EmpireX> the tiling isn't too good either
[19:46:18] <EmpireX> especially when you look at the floor
[19:46:19] <Dark-Star> but in 3DS there's an option "mirroring", it's like tiling except that it mirrors the tiles first. dunno if the 3DS file format supports it, though
[19:46:27] <EmpireX> you can see that is is paved
[19:46:34] <Dark-Star> s/3DS/3D Studio
[19:46:52] <EmpireX> would vividos be interested in talking to the creator of the UVviewer?
[19:46:59] <EmpireX> maybe they would get somewhere together. heheheheh
[19:47:01] <wjp> you'd have to ask vividos :-)
[19:47:14] <Dark-Star> I think it would be better to create completely new tiles. But again I don't want to be the one having to do it because it would take _some_ sime
[19:47:15] * wjp starts casting Vas Kal Vividos
[19:47:20] <EmpireX> lol
[19:47:38] <EmpireX> create completely new tiles??
[19:47:51] <EmpireX> arent u just using the textures?
[19:48:27] <Dark-Star> well, that's what I meant actually... re-create all textures :)
[19:48:38] <EmpireX> uh no
[19:48:50] <EmpireX> that would be good as it would make UW look more modern
[19:49:07] <EmpireX> the uwviewer guy managed to make his textures seamless
[19:49:20] <Dark-Star> hmm ok, but tiling textures (instead of stretching them) would do the same I guess...
[19:49:42] <EmpireX> i do know someone who retextured the entire level one of UW
[19:49:58] <EmpireX> but he wont talk to me. :( gave up his Morrowind project years ago
[19:50:25] <EmpireX> so what did yuse think of our website?
[19:50:26] <wjp> ok, just looked it up in the logs; uwadv should tile wall textures in the z direction
[19:50:42] <Dark-Star> BTW, how do you distribute the UW textures? You can't make them available for DL for obvious reasons...
[19:50:43] <wjp> so I guess the mapto3ds (or what was it called?) should do that too
[19:51:13] <EmpireX> distribute the UW textures?
[19:51:22] <EmpireX> they are packed into a plugin file
[19:51:54] <EmpireX> no-one knows how to extract them
[19:53:38] <Dark-Star> no, I mean are you putting them inside your morrowind-patch-file or are your users going to use a small program on the UW1 data files that extracts the textures?
[19:54:21] <Dark-Star> because distiduting them on the internet _might_ be a copyright violation. Not that I would care much about it, I'm just curious :-)
[19:54:33] <EmpireX> they are going inside our morrowind patch file
[19:55:01] <EmpireX> so the textures cant actually be viewed
[19:55:09] <EmpireX> except in the game
[19:55:34] <wjp> that's a very interesting statement :-)
[19:55:40] <EmpireX> why??
[19:55:43] <EmpireX> lol
[19:56:07] <EmpireX> they cant be viewed that is, unless Bethsoft (morrowind producers) extract them for EA Games to look at
[19:56:08] <EmpireX> lol
[19:56:19] <wjp> or until someone figures out how to extract them
[19:56:25] <EmpireX> i doubt it
[19:57:05] <EmpireX> btw has anyone played might & magic 7 here?
[19:57:12] <Dark-Star> Why do you doubt that? I mean you must be using some tool to _create_ patches for Morrowind. So there must be a way to extract data from these files as well...
[19:57:20] * Dark-Star has played MM7 but not through
[19:57:35] <wjp> yeah, I played (and finished) MM7
[19:57:35] * Dark-Star has played through MM4 + 5 only
[19:57:42] <EmpireX> the tool is the one that Bethsoft used to make Morrowind
[19:58:10] <EmpireX> it doesn't exactly allow stuff to be extracted. so they just provide the models and textures in raw format in a different folder
[19:58:15] <Dark-Star> Didn't like the new M&M Series. MM4+5 were cool but not 6 and 7. Dunno about 8 and 9
[19:58:18] <wjp> Dark-Star: the right argument is that the game can extract the data, so others can too :-)
[19:58:34] <EmpireX> if you have the source code. heheheheh
[19:58:38] <wjp> why?
[19:58:44] <EmpireX> the editor can't extract data itself
[19:58:48] <EmpireX> only the game can
[19:58:52] <Dark-Star> wjp: Yes, and as seen with other Game engines, it's only a matter of time until someone figures it out
[19:59:01] <wjp> we decoded heaps of the U7, U8 and underworld engine data files
[19:59:06] <EmpireX> perhaps
[19:59:17] <EmpireX> but u see, you still havent figured out the model files yet
[19:59:34] <EmpireX> the problem here is that the plugin is usually compressed in some way
[19:59:53] * Dark-Star thinks his cryptography professor would run away screaming when he'd hear these arguments *gg*
[19:59:59] <EmpireX> and ppl have enough problem working out the raw model file format, let alone a packed model format. heheheheh
[20:00:21] <wjp> what's the extension of a morrowind plugin file?
[20:00:24] <EmpireX> but back to MM7, has anyone tried extracting the model files from it?
[20:00:28] <EmpireX> .esm
[20:00:34] <EmpireX> that is a packed one
[20:00:48] <EmpireX> .esp is the standard one ppl are supposed to make
[20:00:52] <Dark-Star> you mean that one: http://home.cinci.rr.com/jimadam/MorrowindESPFormat.html
[20:00:59] <Dark-Star> ?
[20:01:03] <wjp> same page as I'm looking at right now :-)
[20:01:12] <wjp> top hit on google :-)
[20:01:19] <EmpireX> no, that is an esp file
[20:01:30] <Dark-Star> seems like a good starting point for reverse-engineering ...
[20:01:32] <wjp> that's a patch to an esm file, it seems
[20:01:41] <EmpireX> it has nothing in it except user written scripts and co-ordinates for item placement
[20:01:45] <EmpireX> and dialogue
[20:02:03] <EmpireX> when it becomes an esm file, it is a massive file containing all the models and everything
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[20:02:18] <EmpireX> VIVIDOS!!!
[20:02:19] <wjp> hi :-)
[20:02:19] <vividos> hi there
[20:02:23] <wjp> read the logs? :-)
[20:02:28] <EmpireX> i need you!!
[20:02:29] <EmpireX> lol
[20:02:42] <EmpireX> the Morrowind: Underworld Team needs you!!
[20:02:44] <EmpireX> :)
[20:03:18] --- EmpireX is now known as DarkIllusion
[20:03:47] <DarkIllusion> hey, what happened to michael fink? i hope he is alright cause he has not been replying to my emails
[20:04:26] <vividos> I'm just reading the logs
[20:04:33] * vividos is michael fink
[20:04:40] <wjp> :-)
[20:04:46] <Dark-Star> ;-)
[20:04:53] <DarkIllusion> u are?
[20:04:58] <wjp> he is :-)
[20:04:58] <vividos> yes
[20:04:58] <DarkIllusion> have u been getting my emails?
[20:05:02] <DarkIllusion> oh
[20:05:03] <DarkIllusion> lol
[20:05:09] <vividos> it's also mentioned on the uwadv's "about" page
[20:05:28] <DarkIllusion> ive talked to you before as vividos
[20:05:40] <DarkIllusion> except im a bit down with the flu at the moment. so have blocky head
[20:05:44] <DarkIllusion> :)
[20:05:48] <vividos> btw, the uwviewer guy is Telemachos, which happens to also takes part in uwadv development (a bit)
[20:06:25] <DarkIllusion> are u sure?
[20:06:33] <DarkIllusion> whoz this Kasper fauby guy then??
[20:06:46] <DarkIllusion> "Kasper Fauerby" <kasper@peroxide.dk>
[20:06:58] <DarkIllusion> Hi again..
[20:06:58] <DarkIllusion> Yeah, that was me who did that old UWViewer some time back when I felt
[20:06:58] <DarkIllusion> like
[20:06:58] <DarkIllusion> hacking around
[20:06:58] <DarkIllusion> with the UW file formats. I'm afraid I don't support that viewer
[20:06:59] <DarkIllusion> anymore but
[20:07:01] <DarkIllusion> you should (and probably
[20:07:03] <DarkIllusion> already have) check out the UWAdventure project at
[20:07:05] <DarkIllusion> uwadv.sourceforge.net -
[20:07:07] <DarkIllusion> they've found out much
[20:07:09] <DarkIllusion> more about the file formats than I ever did ;)
[20:07:11] <DarkIllusion> - Kasper
[20:07:18] <Dark-Star> isn't he the one who does the UW1 remake?
[20:07:32] <wjp> that's Telemachos
[20:07:37] <DarkIllusion> i dunno
[20:07:45] <DarkIllusion> ah yes
[20:07:46] <DarkIllusion> it is
[20:07:53] <DarkIllusion> Kasper is telemanchos. :)
[20:07:54] <wjp> he did the ex-U1-remake
[20:08:09] <wjp> (except that it isn't a U1 remake anymore now)
[20:08:16] <DarkIllusion> what is it now?
[20:08:39] <wjp> a new original game (same engine as before, though)
[20:08:52] <DarkIllusion> hey vividos, do you think you could get the changes made?
[20:08:53] <wjp> they decided to avoid any potential copyright issues, IIRC
[20:09:05] <DarkIllusion> really? can i download it from anywhere?
[20:09:05] <vividos> DarkIllusion: yes, I think
[20:09:23] <DarkIllusion> Vividos: Within the next week or so? :)
[20:09:41] <vividos> DarkIllusion: could you do me a rendered shot where I can see that seams and gray areas that you mentioned?
[20:09:47] <DarkIllusion> our scheduled release is due soon, and we still have weird looking textures which have been stretched
[20:09:55] <DarkIllusion> yes, hold on
[20:09:58] <vividos> probably
[20:10:10] <vividos> have to be away for 10 minutes - dinner
[20:10:22] <vividos> dinner's almost ready :) I hope you stay a little longer
[20:10:32] --- vividos is now known as vividos|away
[20:13:49] <Dark-Star> http://dark-star.homeftp.org/images/level00.jpg (although it's a little dark, but the effect is noticeable)
[20:15:32] <DarkIllusion> http://users.tpg.com.au/ron3sun/shot.jpg
[20:16:09] <DarkIllusion> wow
[20:16:20] <DarkIllusion> that green goblin place is very dark on urs
[20:16:34] <Dark-Star> now it's better. added an omni light
[20:16:46] <DarkIllusion> it doesn't look like that!!
[20:16:47] <DarkIllusion> lol
[20:16:52] --- vividos|away is now known as vividos
[20:16:53] <DarkIllusion> well not on mine
[20:17:17] <Dark-Star> but the gamma still isn't correct on mine, it's much lighter in the 3DS render than in the JPG
[20:18:15] <vividos> DarkIllusion: I don't know 3ds max, but is there an option to "tile" the texture, instead of map it to some coordinates?
[20:18:26] <DarkIllusion> http://users.tpg.com.au/ron3sun/shot2.jpg
[20:18:30] <DarkIllusion> yes
[20:18:58] <DarkIllusion> um...maybe, u would UV Coordinate it and use the face settin
[20:19:00] <DarkIllusion> g
[20:19:02] <vividos> when you turn it on for some triangles/quads, does it work then?
[20:19:39] <DarkIllusion> but the problem is that the whole level is one mesh
[20:19:45] <vividos> that means, you have to adjust the coordinates manually?
[20:19:59] <vividos> how should I write the triangles instead?
[20:20:16] <Dark-Star> ok, now the gamma should be better on mine. looks kinda funny with those grey walls :)
[20:21:14] <DarkIllusion> im not very good with 3dsmax either. just started learning with this project
[20:21:24] <DarkIllusion> um...
[20:21:40] <DarkIllusion> perhaps have the triangles divided into the textures on them
[20:21:43] <DarkIllusion> like the uw viewer
[20:21:58] <DarkIllusion> then maybe we can UV map each wall
[20:22:06] <DarkIllusion> hold on
[20:22:09] <DarkIllusion> ill try something
[20:22:10] <vividos> Dark-Star: is it an ingame screenshot or one from 3ds?
[20:22:27] <Dark-Star> from 3ds
[20:23:24] <Dark-Star> face mapping these textures looks really funny :)
[20:23:59] <vividos> could you tell me texture coordinates of an average tile floor?
[20:33:53] <vividos> hey, everyone's to dinner or what? :)
[20:34:30] <Dark-Star> no, not really. But I figured you meant DarkIllusion anyway ...
[20:35:36] <DarkIllusion> im working on it
[20:35:36] <DarkIllusion> lol
[20:37:10] <vividos> I meant any of you two :)
[20:38:19] <DarkIllusion> the problem is that if i retexture it, it looks completely different
[20:38:55] <DarkIllusion> i must be using the wrong texture
[20:38:56] <DarkIllusion> hehehehhe
[20:43:47] <DarkIllusion> um... vividos?
[20:45:33] <DarkIllusion> 1.01
[20:45:37] <vividos> yes?
[20:45:41] <DarkIllusion> there shouldn't be anything wrong with your tiling though
[20:47:42] <DarkIllusion> if i tile at 1.00, the white lines dont show up
[20:48:16] <DarkIllusion> ah, ic
[20:48:19] <DarkIllusion> yes, they do
[20:50:31] <vividos> the high u/v coordinates are at 1.01?
[20:50:41] <vividos> (low ones obviously are at 0.0)
[20:52:01] <DarkIllusion> wait up, what high and low uv coordinates?
[20:52:09] <vividos> ok, another question, how are the u/v coordinates of a wall, e.g. the red wall with gray areas below
[20:52:25] <DarkIllusion> the U and V offsets are 0
[20:52:37] <DarkIllusion> U and V tiling are at 1.01
[20:52:43] <vividos> ah, that's it
[20:53:37] <DarkIllusion> hey, doesn't telemanchos have this info?
[20:53:58] <vividos> what info?
[20:56:22] <DarkIllusion> the tiling coordinates
[20:56:22] <DarkIllusion> oh no
[20:56:25] <DarkIllusion> he wouldnt actually
[20:56:30] <DarkIllusion> cause he was just stretching
[20:56:31] <DarkIllusion> dont worry
[20:59:56] <DarkIllusion> i have to go into the UW game
[21:00:01] <DarkIllusion> ill take a few secs
[21:00:58] <vividos> wjp: did you find out about "Spam Spam Spam Humbug" ?
[21:01:13] <wjp> no, we didn't
[21:01:41] <vividos> it's the words you have to say to Iolo in u6 to get into a cheat menu
[21:02:41] <DarkIllusion> i would have to guess that the coordinates are the same
[21:03:23] <vividos> have to restart to debug map3ds
[21:03:26] <-- vividos has left IRC ("reboot")
[21:06:14] <DarkIllusion> the levels dont seem to have a ceiling. :)
[21:07:03] <DarkIllusion> ive heard of spam spam humbug
[21:07:10] <wjp> yeah, so did I :-)
[21:07:20] <wjp> vividos probably misunderstood part of the #exult logs
[21:07:39] <wjp> we were trying to figure out where those words came from, since they're apparently also an easter egg in some version of unreal
[21:08:00] <Dark-Star> Unreal II, to be precise :)
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[21:08:10] <Dark-Star> not just "some version" :-)
[21:08:25] <wjp> as I said; some version ;-P
[21:08:45] <wjp> ah, right, that was your post, wasn't it? :-)
[21:09:01] <wjp> vividos: that part of the #exult logs was about http://exult.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?f=1&i=12333&t=12333
[21:09:45] <wjp> the 'spam spam spam humbug' also triggers an easter egg in Unreal 2; so we were wondering if it meant anything outside of the ultima world
[21:09:59] <Dark-Star> yep that was me :)
[21:12:00] <vividos> probable that they have a common root
[21:12:26] <Dark-Star> Maybe this can be of any help:
[21:12:31] <Dark-Star> In Unreal 2, you talk by picking conversation options, much like in Ultima.
[21:12:40] <Dark-Star> The other options available instead of "Humbug" are"Humperdinck" and "Tradition". Maybe that's a clue?
[21:13:42] <DarkIllusion> hey vividos, do you know something
[21:13:49] <DarkIllusion> i think all you had to do was turn tiling on
[21:13:55] <DarkIllusion> wait up, back into uw
[21:14:49] <wjp> hm, Humperdinck appears to be a singer or something
[21:15:37] <Dark-Star> A classical composer, I think
[21:15:44] <wjp> and it seems there was an Humperdinck who wrote the H\"ansel und Gretel opera
[21:16:02] <vividos> DarkIllusion: there are some flags to set in lib3ds, they are decal, mirror, negate and no_tile ...
[21:16:21] <DarkIllusion> mirror is off
[21:16:32] <DarkIllusion> lib3ds?
[21:16:33] <vividos> the other ones?
[21:16:40] <vividos> lib3ds is the library to write out 3ds files
[21:16:47] <DarkIllusion> ive never used it
[21:16:48] <DarkIllusion> um...
[21:17:18] <DarkIllusion> A 2D map used as a decal appears only once and is not repeated as with tiling
[21:17:22] <DarkIllusion> so i guess decal is off
[21:17:35] <DarkIllusion> negate is off
[21:17:37] <DarkIllusion> no_tile is off
[21:17:38] <DarkIllusion> :)
[21:17:39] <wjp> ...and The Princess Bride had a character named Prince Humperdinck...
[21:18:30] <Dark-Star> ah yes, I remember, now that you mention it. I *knew* I heard that name in some movie before...
[21:19:32] <DarkIllusion> Vividos: are the levels also missing ceilings?
[21:19:39] <wjp> I really don't know how to connect Lincoln to any of this, though
[21:19:52] <wjp> other than that Lincoln apparently used the word 'humbug' on occasion
[21:20:16] <vividos> there also is an option "summed area" ... what does it do?
[21:20:38] <Dark-Star> Maybe they just _wanted_ people to guess around. Although that would be a very dull easter egg IMHO...
[21:21:15] <vividos> btw, there also is a monty python sketch where "spam spam" is mentioned
[21:21:43] <Dark-Star> vividos: yes, I heard that, that's where the term "spam" for unwanted email comes from, right?
[21:21:47] <DarkIllusion> Filtering group
[21:21:47] <DarkIllusion> Filtering options let you select the method of pixel averaging used in antialiasing the bitmap.
[21:21:58] <wjp> lots of spam in that sketch, yes :-)
[21:22:06] <DarkIllusion> Pyramidal: Requires less memory and is adequate for most purposes.
[21:22:14] <vividos> Dark-Star: yes
[21:22:18] <DarkIllusion> Summed Area: Requires much more memory, but yields generally superior results.
[21:22:32] <wjp> http://www.detritus.org/spam/skit.html
[21:22:35] <DarkIllusion> i guess summed area makes the images look better
[21:22:40] <DarkIllusion> but it takes up more memory
[21:22:50] <vividos> DarkIllusion: that's the only flag that is turned on
[21:25:10] <DarkIllusion> yes
[21:25:21] <DarkIllusion> but i dont think it really matters
[21:25:30] <DarkIllusion> doesnt look like thatz much visible quality difference
[21:25:46] <DarkIllusion> ah, yes
[21:25:53] <DarkIllusion> it lookz a little more refined
[21:25:54] <DarkIllusion> hehehehheh
[21:26:00] <DarkIllusion> barely perceptible
[21:26:15] <DarkIllusion> it helps the tiling as well
[21:26:44] <vividos> but the scale factor is 1.01 for all tiles imported, right?
[21:28:05] <DarkIllusion> hey vividos
[21:28:11] <DarkIllusion> actually, turn off the summed area
[21:28:13] <DarkIllusion> it sux
[21:28:31] <DarkIllusion> it looks blurred and you lose the finer texture in the textures
[21:28:47] <vividos> but that's not the real problem ...
[21:29:06] <DarkIllusion> no, you don't want to touch the scale factor
[21:29:17] <DarkIllusion> u want to change the bitmap uv tiling
[21:29:29] <vividos> aah, found something with a 3ds file opener ... 3ds chunk MAT_MAP_TILING is set to TEX_NOWRAP ...
[21:29:42] <DarkIllusion> bitmap coordinate uv tiling
[21:30:37] <DarkIllusion> yes, that might be it
[21:30:41] <DarkIllusion> what are the other settings?
[21:31:25] <DarkIllusion> "Bah humbug"
[21:32:18] <vividos> I'm just looking
[21:33:29] <DarkIllusion> what is lib3ds? a source code?
[21:35:31] <wjp> http://lib3ds.sourceforge.net/
[21:35:50] <vividos> lib3ds is a library to read in and write out 3ds files
[21:37:06] <DarkIllusion> wow, you are really dealing with some complicated stuff here
[21:37:10] <DarkIllusion> ive got it
[21:38:21] <vividos> I've dealt with it before in a job, so I just use the library :)
[21:40:52] <DarkIllusion> i think it is the u scale and v scale
[21:40:56] <DarkIllusion> in the chunk.h
[21:41:15] <DarkIllusion> line 136
[21:41:34] <DarkIllusion> yes
[21:41:45] <DarkIllusion> try changing u scale and v scale to 1.01
[21:41:48] <DarkIllusion> that should do the trick
[21:42:52] <DarkIllusion> you'd probably be my key to unlocking the 3D model files out of Might & Magic 7. :)
[21:43:07] <DarkIllusion> thats all i would need to start a MM7 mod. heheheheh
[21:44:17] <vividos> well, the value for LIB3DS_MAT_MAP_USCALE is/should be at 1.00
[21:46:27] <DarkIllusion> trying changing it to 1.01
[21:47:17] <vividos> why 1.01? I thought that is the value that does the lines?
[21:47:56] <DarkIllusion> no, 1.01 is without the lines
[21:48:09] <DarkIllusion> well, try 1.00 first, but with tiling
[21:48:11] <DarkIllusion> see how that goes
[21:48:21] <DarkIllusion> have u found the tiling yet?
[21:48:55] <vividos> yes, but something's wrong here ..
[21:49:08] <DarkIllusion> what is it?
[21:49:27] <DarkIllusion> code related?
[21:56:18] <vividos> ok, could you try out a file? http://www.asamnet.de/~finkm/uwadv/level00.zip <-- just unzip the 3ds into the folder where you have all the textures
[21:57:50] <DarkIllusion> yup
[21:58:08] <vividos> do the textures look different?
[21:58:13] <DarkIllusion> hey, is there anywhere i could host my plugin file?
[21:58:19] <DarkIllusion> im downloading it
[21:58:22] <DarkIllusion> im on 56k
[21:58:23] <vividos> ah ok
[21:58:24] <vividos> :)
[21:58:41] <vividos> about hosting: don't know; does rpgplanet provide some space?
[21:59:16] <DarkIllusion> YES!!
[21:59:20] <DarkIllusion> it does work!!
[21:59:23] <DarkIllusion> unfortunately
[21:59:29] <DarkIllusion> you have left negative on
[21:59:31] <DarkIllusion> lol
[21:59:36] <DarkIllusion> it looks like a negative of the level
[22:00:11] <DarkIllusion> the green goblin place has a bluish green wall. lol
[22:00:24] <DarkIllusion> We can call it Ultima Underworld: The Negative Plane
[22:02:28] <vividos> can you quickly render a shot?
[22:02:32] <DarkIllusion> hey vividos!!
[22:02:37] <DarkIllusion> you turned "invert" on
[22:02:42] <vividos> I know
[22:02:58] <vividos> "Ultima Underworld: The Negative Plane" is a cool name for a remake
[22:04:00] <DarkIllusion> http://users.tpg.com.au/ron3sun/shot.jpg
[22:04:06] <DarkIllusion> the visuals aren't too great though
[22:04:10] <DarkIllusion> ppl would think it was a joke
[22:04:35] <vividos> heh :)
[22:04:45] <DarkIllusion> i turned invert off and it went back to normal
[22:04:57] <vividos> hmm, flag values in lib3ds seem to be wrong ...
[22:05:38] <DarkIllusion> but u got the tiling working
[22:05:43] <DarkIllusion> change the other thing back
[22:05:57] <vividos> ok, just a moment
[22:06:25] <DarkIllusion> wow, this is damn nice
[22:06:39] <DarkIllusion> you're a champ. you're almost there
[22:07:02] <vividos> I only change a value; a one-liner in code :)
[22:07:18] <vividos> s/change/changed
[22:07:29] <DarkIllusion> lol
[22:07:44] <DarkIllusion> so where did this invert thingy come from
[22:07:46] <DarkIllusion> did you find it?
[22:08:47] <vividos> the flag LIB3DS_SUMMED_AREA is set by default, which happens to really be LIB3DS_NO_TILE
[22:08:59] <wjp> heh, oops :-)
[22:09:04] <vividos> I then changed the flag value to LIB3DS_NO_TILE, which really happens to be LIB3DS_NEGATE
[22:09:32] <DarkIllusion> u can report the bug to them now! :))
[22:10:11] <DarkIllusion> hey, did the Underworld Adventures team want a gazer?
[22:10:12] <DarkIllusion> :)
[22:10:34] <DarkIllusion> im still looking for a lurker. think i might have to make it myself though. :(
[22:11:40] <vividos> for models you might talk to Eldron or Servus
[22:11:51] <vividos> btw, which version of 3ds do you use?
[22:12:18] <DarkIllusion> lib3ds?? i dont use any. i just downloaded it. :)
[22:12:22] <DarkIllusion> i dont know c++
[22:12:33] <DarkIllusion> only know C
[22:12:49] <wjp> not lib3ds, 3ds itself, probably :-)
[22:13:15] <DarkIllusion> 4.0
[22:13:27] <wjp> (lib3ds isn't C++, btw; it's C according to their homepage)
[22:13:35] <vividos> sorry, 3ds should be 3d studio
[22:13:46] <DarkIllusion> yes i know
[22:14:10] <vividos> ok, I just sent the maintainer a mail about this
[22:14:38] <DarkIllusion> well, itz just not any C ive ever learnt. :)
[22:15:36] <DarkIllusion> i wonder how origin programmed the bullfrog puzzle
[22:15:47] <DarkIllusion> my script for that was 1200 lines. heheheheh
[22:16:19] <vividos> origin didn't do uw1, looking glass studios did
[22:16:35] <DarkIllusion> but i think if i did it in C, it would only be about 50. Morrowind script aint too good
[22:16:42] <vividos> I guess they just changed height values in the level map
[22:16:43] <DarkIllusion> wasn't glass studios the publisher?
[22:16:52] <wjp> 50->1200? yikes, big difference
[22:16:59] <vividos> no, EA was the publisher
[22:17:08] <DarkIllusion> yes, the interesting thing about the models is that the secret doors are solid
[22:17:14] <DarkIllusion> i have to chop them open myself
[22:17:35] <DarkIllusion> yes. because Morrowind scripting has no arrays!! Aaarg!! :)
[22:17:37] <vividos> do you mean the 3d models embedded into uw.exe?
[22:17:54] <wjp> no arrays? argh
[22:18:00] <DarkIllusion> no, as in the level files which UVviwer and your mapto3ds creates
[22:18:06] <Eldron> morrowind scripting is very limited.. -_-
[22:18:09] <DarkIllusion> i have to open up the secret doors by slicing them open
[22:18:22] <wjp> why didn't they just use an already existing scripting language, like, say, lua? :-)
[22:18:23] <DarkIllusion> in 3dsmax
[22:18:29] <DarkIllusion> they did
[22:18:32] <Eldron> well.. it was made for newbies :)
[22:18:38] <DarkIllusion> it looks like some simplified version of C
[22:18:51] <wjp> but.. but.. no arrays?
[22:18:55] <DarkIllusion> itz all Goblin.state
[22:18:56] <Eldron> more like a simplified version of basic
[22:19:05] <DarkIllusion> Goblin->GetCollidingPC
[22:19:11] <DarkIllusion> they took out all the powerful stuff
[22:19:13] <DarkIllusion> like switch
[22:19:16] <DarkIllusion> arrays
[22:19:17] <DarkIllusion> lists
[22:19:34] <Eldron> took out?.. they never had it in the first place..
[22:19:34] <DarkIllusion> most of the functions didnt even work until the latest patches
[22:19:48] <DarkIllusion> ????
[22:19:58] <vividos> DarkIllusion: any more changes for map3ds? u and v scale to 1.1?
[22:20:08] <DarkIllusion> yes they do. lol. or maybe i was thinking of eiffel
[22:20:19] <DarkIllusion> anywayz, send me the level again but without the negative
[22:20:23] <DarkIllusion> leave the scale to 1.00
[22:20:25] <DarkIllusion> see how it is now
[22:20:50] <vividos> I uploaded a new level00.zip
[22:20:54] <DarkIllusion> ok
[22:21:36] <DarkIllusion> so how is the underworld adventures engine going to work?
[22:21:43] <DarkIllusion> it doesnt use model files for the levels does it?
[22:22:16] <vividos> no, it has a 64x64 array of infos how to render each tile
[22:22:26] <vividos> walls are rendered on-the-fly
[22:22:48] <DarkIllusion> so you can change them for the secret doors and that then?
[22:24:19] <DarkIllusion> it is completely fine now!! woo hoo!! thankyou
[22:24:33] <DarkIllusion> therez no lines in the tiling anymore
[22:25:12] <DarkIllusion> ok, umm...you seem to having ceilings. but they're not textured
[22:25:23] <vividos> hmm
[22:25:37] <DarkIllusion> this is much better than UVViewer
[22:26:53] <DarkIllusion> the ceilings are just black
[22:27:07] <vividos> ceiling textures: I'll look into it
[22:28:11] <wjp> isn't that to make the full world overview images prettier? :-)
[22:29:24] <vividos> no, the ceiling isn't rendered in mapdisp when you look on top of it because it has the wrong "winding"
[22:30:03] <wjp> ah
[22:30:05] <vividos> well, not the wrong winding
[22:30:10] <wjp> orientation?
[22:30:19] <vividos> it only renders the "front" side of a triangle
[22:30:38] <vividos> that means when you look at it at the wrong side, it's invisible
[22:30:43] <DarkIllusion> yes, they are called normals in 3dsmax
[22:30:50] * wjp nods; I got it from the 'winding' description :-)
[22:30:54] <DarkIllusion> i flip them up and they appear to be black
[22:30:56] <DarkIllusion> hold on
[22:30:59] <DarkIllusion> ill take another look
[22:32:17] <vividos> what material do the ceiling triangles have? tex010f?
[22:32:34] <DarkIllusion> lol. im not sure. you might want to rename the textures too. :)
[22:32:44] <DarkIllusion> the purple marble texture
[22:32:48] <vividos> to what name?
[22:33:30] <vividos> what name does the ceiling material have?
[22:33:53] <DarkIllusion> it doesnt have a name
[22:34:00] <DarkIllusion> oh hold on
[22:34:19] <DarkIllusion> tex010f
[22:35:38] <vividos> then it should have the tex010f.tga as texture map
[22:35:40] <DarkIllusion> ah yes
[22:35:43] <DarkIllusion> it is textured
[22:35:45] <DarkIllusion> but very dark
[22:35:50] <DarkIllusion> my bad
[22:36:08] <DarkIllusion> would it be difficult to have the ceiling and water mesh seperate from the level mesh?
[22:37:02] <vividos> would be no problem; I could do a mesh for every other texture
[22:37:21] <DarkIllusion> yes that would be great
[22:37:31] <DarkIllusion> but wait
[22:37:40] <DarkIllusion> cause the ceiling texture is also sometimes the floor texture
[22:37:51] <DarkIllusion> and the ceiling also changes texture as well
[22:38:15] <vividos> no, the ceiling texture is always the same for one level
[22:39:36] <DarkIllusion> ok
[22:39:47] <DarkIllusion> and it is never used on the floor as well?
[22:40:04] <vividos> that can happen
[22:40:21] <vividos> (the map format simply has no field for ceiling texture)
[22:40:25] <vividos> water and lava tiles should be seperate, too?
[22:40:31] <DarkIllusion> yes please
[22:40:48] <vividos> ok. I'll implement a special DarkIllusion option, just for you :)
[22:40:55] <DarkIllusion> heheheheh
[22:41:17] <vividos> or should I call it another name?
[22:41:29] <DarkIllusion> ur a genius! do you remember how i was complaining there was black walls after i put the UWViewer level models into Morrowind
[22:41:38] <DarkIllusion> yours dont have any black walls!! YAY!!!
[22:41:48] <DarkIllusion> u can just call it a DarkIllusion option. :)
[22:42:09] <vividos> :)
[22:43:21] <DarkIllusion> and could you change the names of the textures please
[22:43:32] <DarkIllusion> like have them in simple ascending order. :)
[22:43:41] <DarkIllusion> tex01
[22:43:42] <DarkIllusion> tex02
[22:44:06] <vividos> would be a bit complicated
[22:44:35] <vividos> is it really needed for use in morrowind?
[22:44:37] <DarkIllusion> it would?
[22:44:50] <DarkIllusion> not really. it would make my job a bit easier. dont worry about it then
[22:44:57] <DarkIllusion> why are the textures called that anyway?
[22:48:23] <DarkIllusion> hey vividos, have you turned off summed area yet?
[22:48:35] <DarkIllusion> or make an option to turn it on or off? heheheheh
[22:50:13] <vividos> summed area was never on, it seemed
[22:50:20] <DarkIllusion> thatz good
[22:51:08] <DarkIllusion> the level is currently the size of a shirt in morrowind, but that shouldn't be a problem. :)
[22:52:19] <vividos> hehe
[22:54:46] <vividos> ok have to go in 5 minutes. I'll send you the updated executable per mail, ok?
[22:56:19] <DarkIllusion> :(. id like to be able to work on the Mod today
[22:56:40] <DarkIllusion> you are going to have to finish it later then?
[22:57:40] <DarkIllusion> thanx for all the help Michael. you should have seen how excited i was when i found out you had updated the uwadvtools
[22:57:55] <DarkIllusion> but then the mapto3ds didnt work very well. :( heheheheh
[22:58:48] <vividos> later perhaps, in 1 or 2h, ok?
[22:59:00] <DarkIllusion> oh ok then.
[22:59:08] <DarkIllusion> i can wait that long. thankyou again
[22:59:36] <DarkIllusion> "I could kiss you man" - a post that someone made when I announced the Morrowind: Underworld mod was soon going to be released
[22:59:40] <DarkIllusion> lol
[22:59:50] <vividos> hehe
[23:00:27] <vividos> 'till later
[23:00:35] --- vividos is now known as vividos|away
[23:00:58] <DarkIllusion> yes. later
[23:00:59] <DarkIllusion> bye EVERYONE!!!
[23:01:15] <DarkIllusion> see you later wjp and Dark-Star
[23:01:25] <DarkIllusion> i would also like to talk to your modeller sometime
[23:01:29] <wjp> speaking of leaving... I should go too :-)
[23:01:36] <wjp> g'night
[23:01:41] <Eldron> I was here all the time :)
[23:01:56] <Eldron> well.. alt-tabbed
[23:02:04] <wjp> :-)
[23:02:11] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz...")
[23:02:32] <DarkIllusion> Eldron!!
[23:02:37] <DarkIllusion> you are the modeller right?
[23:03:32] <DarkIllusion> Eldron!!
[23:04:45] <Eldron> yea
[23:04:49] <Eldron> one of them
[23:05:29] <DarkIllusion> have you got anything for the lurkers yet?
[23:05:37] <DarkIllusion> does modeller include animator
[23:06:03] <Eldron> artist/modeller/texturer/animator
[23:06:13] <DarkIllusion> we have got mushrooms, cheese, gazers
[23:06:26] <DarkIllusion> wooden shield, spiders, trolls
[23:06:30] <DarkIllusion> but no lurkers!!
[23:06:30] <Eldron> I've done a gazer myself, I heard servus was making a lurker though
[23:06:43] <Eldron> talk to him if you see him here..
[23:06:43] <DarkIllusion> You've done a gazer?? animated?
[23:06:52] <Eldron> half-textured
[23:07:00] <Eldron> Im not done with it yet :)
[23:07:06] <Eldron> I should be though.. Im so lazy
[23:07:08] <DarkIllusion> ah, ic. thatz ok, we just used a beholder. lol
[23:07:30] <DarkIllusion> and when it dies, itz big eye pops out
[23:07:30] <DarkIllusion> lol
[23:07:53] <Eldron> http://eldron.20m.com/model/uw/gazer_text_2.jpg <-- old old render of the model..
[23:08:14] <DarkIllusion> WOW!!
[23:08:16] <DarkIllusion> that is awesome
[23:08:34] <Eldron> http://eldron.20m.com/model/uw/gazer_new.jpg actually, this one is newer..
[23:08:35] <DarkIllusion> you just haven't done the tentacle textures
[23:09:07] <DarkIllusion> the tentacles aren't textured very well
[23:09:14] <Eldron> not textured at all
[23:09:20] <Eldron> I haven't started there yet..
[23:09:21] <DarkIllusion> it would look better squid like. :)
[23:09:37] <DarkIllusion> what prog are u modelling with?
[23:09:58] <Eldron> blender
[23:10:20] <DarkIllusion> well, we would really love to feature your gazer in Morrowind: Underworld
[23:10:23] <DarkIllusion> and a lurker
[23:10:44] <Eldron> well you are free to use it.. If we manage to get it into the right format and such..
[23:10:51] <Eldron> exporting has been an issue with blender :)
[23:10:58] <DarkIllusion> what can it export as?
[23:11:04] <DarkIllusion> thatz great!
[23:11:24] <DarkIllusion> i like the way you bumped itz skin
[23:11:31] <Eldron> well.. several formats.. but none of them includes bones :/
[23:11:45] <DarkIllusion> how did you do that? can i use that effect to make a corn on the cob?
[23:11:52] <Eldron> hmm?
[23:11:53] <DarkIllusion> thatz ok. i dont use bones
[23:12:30] <DarkIllusion> maybe give the gazer an eyelid. :)
[23:12:48] <Eldron> it doesnt have that :)
[23:13:04] <Eldron> well, atleast not in my image of it.. not much of reference used.. except a tiny sprite from uw..
[23:13:21] <DarkIllusion> it does in the UW handbook. :)
[23:14:11] <Eldron> only thing I remember from it was the way the slugthingie looked much scarier than ingame..
[23:14:44] <DarkIllusion> yes it did
[23:14:51] <DarkIllusion> the slug is going to be difficult to do
[23:15:01] <DarkIllusion> i hate making creepy crawly things
[23:16:45] <DarkIllusion> does ur gazer have bones?
[23:17:11] <DarkIllusion> from the blender shot it seems to be rather rigid. heheheheh
[23:18:23] <Eldron> I haven't given it bones yet..
[23:18:32] <Eldron> that I'll do after texturing..
[23:21:59] <Eldron> but now I must sleeep
[23:30:47] <-- DarkIllusion has left IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))