#uwadv@irc.freenode.net logs for 20 Nov 2002 (GMT)

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[00:07:48] <vividos> no, didn't get it :)
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[00:18:11] <vividos> hi vegai
[00:18:22] <vividos> Coren, explain when it's not too complicated
[00:50:15] <vegai> howdy
[01:02:54] <Coren_> vividos: It's a reference to a comedy show's skit, "Saturday Night Live". Years back, they had this recurring pseudo-ad featuring a bouncing bright ping toy ball named "happy fun ball". Half the "ad" was a jingle, the other half was very quickly spoken warnings and disclaimers of a dire nature.
[01:04:09] <vividos> hehe
[01:04:16] <Coren_> "Do not play with Happy Fun Ball within 50 miles of pregnant women." "Happy Fun Ball may cause leukemia." "Happy fun ball may explode when exposed to sunlight or rain." etc. In every case, "Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball." was one of the disclaimers portending dire doom.
[01:06:57] <Coren_> I've since taken to adding that line to every disclaimer/legal boilerplate I write as an acknoledgement of the stupidity of having to do that in the first place. :-)
[01:07:52] <vividos> hehe
[01:08:01] <vividos> ok, should go now. night!
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[01:33:16] <Coren_> Dum dee dum.
[01:35:19] <Coren_> Hey, vegai. Whatcha up to?
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[10:52:37] --- Topic for #uwadv is: Underworld Adventures: an Ultima Underworld Remake (http://uwadv.sourceforge.net)
[10:52:37] --- Topic for #uwadv set by wjp at Sat Oct 26 19:10:39 2002
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[16:25:17] <vegai> I've found some easy-to-fix bugs in the source
[16:25:23] <vegai> ...related to gcc-3.2
[16:27:29] <vegai> do you know of these? perhaps fixed in cvs already?
[16:27:35] <vegai> audio/audio.cpp:162: `::tolower' undeclared (first use here)
[16:27:37] <vegai> this sort of stuff
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[16:54:17] <vividos> hi there!
[16:56:21] <Eldron> oi
[16:58:44] <vividos> vegai: what os do you have?
[17:09:49] <vegai> gentoo linux
[17:10:00] <vegai> why?
[17:13:10] <vividos> I wonder what libstdc++ was taken for this ... anyway
[17:13:51] <vividos> I guess removing the :: from tolower works for you?
[17:55:45] <vegai> vividos: actually, adding #include <cctype> to that file
[17:55:50] <vegai> ...fixes the problem
[17:56:00] <vegai> don't know if it breaks on older compilers, though
[17:56:35] <vegai> interesting, my X11-video driver reports I have 0 k video memory ;-/
[17:56:46] <vegai> ..or that's what uwadv sees
[17:57:26] <vegai> + I'm getting a black screen, nothing more... hmm
[17:59:05] <vividos> the 0 k video memory is ok
[17:59:13] <vividos> what video card do you have?
[18:00:18] <vegai> it is? hmm
[18:00:21] <vegai> ati radeon mobility
[18:00:37] <vegai> M6 LY
[18:01:35] <vividos> don't know this one. is it rather old?
[18:01:50] <vegai> it'a laptop interface
[18:02:00] <vegai> close to ati radeon 7500, I guess
[18:02:06] <vegai> with much less memory
[18:03:06] <vegai> why does it report 0K video memory? And why is that normal?-)
[18:04:33] <vividos> I'm not a linux expert, but I might be that the X server doesn't know the size of video memory
[18:05:00] <vividos> I guess other OpenGL accelerated applications work
[18:05:55] <vegai> yes, they do.
[18:06:04] <vegai> but hmm, I might try on a smaller resolution
[18:06:55] <vividos> ok. what does console output say (only the last few lines)
[18:08:48] <vegai> initializing core objects
[18:08:48] <vegai> uw-path: /usr/local/share/games/uw1/
[18:09:21] <vegai> perhaps it's the audio?
[18:09:53] <vegai> nope, isn't.
[18:11:43] <vegai> I'll try gdb ;)
[18:12:16] <vegai> ok, it's the video driver, as I kinda suspected
[18:12:30] <vegai> 0x4022961f in gl_test_os_katmai_exception_support ()
[18:12:30] <vegai> from /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/radeon_dri.so
[18:13:20] <vegai> it's trying to do something weird over there... since every other GL-app seems to work
[18:16:07] <vividos> what last uwadv function was called?
[18:16:38] <vividos> or better, post the output of "bt"
[18:20:58] <vegai> bt?
[18:21:26] <vegai> oh, in gdb
[18:21:46] <vegai> mail?
[18:27:15] <vividos> you can paste it here, when it's not too long
[18:27:21] <vividos> or send per query
[18:31:46] * Coren_ wavies.
[18:31:48] <Coren_> Hey guys.
[18:32:02] <vividos> hi Coren
[18:33:32] * Coren_ has got a preliminary working conversation VM.
[18:33:34] * Coren_ grins.
[18:34:23] <Coren_> It barfs on some builtins, mind you, but the basic interpreter is there. I'll probably have some conversations working in a few hours.
[18:34:23] <vividos> :)
[18:38:56] * Eldron & Maps160.ogg (kbps/1.02min)
[18:39:08] <Coren_> vividos: How far are you along in yours?
[18:39:47] <Eldron> there is a melody in this song.. :x, I cant remember hearing it when I played uw heavily before..
[18:40:10] <Eldron> my sound card must've removed that midi instrument :/
[18:40:11] <vividos> well, it runs simple conversations that only use the "babl_menu" and "babl_fmenu" builtins
[18:40:26] <vividos> Eldron: could be
[18:40:45] <Coren_> Basically same place I am. We should compare notes once we have most implemented; we'll probably be able to fill each other's builtins.
[18:41:12] <vividos> vegai: thanks for the bt log. seems to be a driver issue, unfortunately
[18:41:43] <vividos> I figured out parameters of most builtins. just check out uw-formats.txt (or look at the diffs)
[18:41:57] <vividos> s/most/some
[18:42:24] <Coren_> vividos: already? Cool. That'll ease finding the other ones. In CVS?
[18:42:37] <vividos> yes
[18:42:43] * Coren_ nods.
[18:43:02] <Coren_> Will you have babl in rotworm stew?
[18:43:16] <vividos> conversations? no
[18:43:45] <Coren_> (I vote for that release name, btw) :)
[18:44:09] <vividos> :)
[18:44:47] <Coren_> 1.0 will /have/ to be named for that SIlverleaf dish in U7. :)
[18:47:48] <Eldron> hmm, Im modelling the gazer..
[18:48:26] <Eldron> had to run down to the mines and screenshot the foul beast for reference..
[18:48:53] <Coren_> :points at Eldron. "Hey! You found a modeler!"
[18:49:15] <vividos> Eldron: do you need some more images of the gazer?
[18:49:23] * Coren_ thwaps his typist. "':' on muds, '/me' on irc!"
[18:49:35] <Eldron> vividos, well, I only have a frontal image of it..
[18:49:49] <Eldron> but it has a very basic design anyway..
[18:50:27] <vividos> I could send you all images used in animations
[18:50:41] <Eldron> yeah, that can be useful
[18:50:43] <Coren_> What format are you using for animated models?
[18:50:51] <vegai> vividos: yup... perhaps the upcoming radeon stuff in next xfree will clear things up
[18:51:00] * Coren_ will prepare his code base for stealing uwadv's. :)
[18:51:06] <vegai> vividos: tell you what, I'll try it without DRI
[18:51:39] <vividos> vegai: ok
[18:51:40] <Coren_> People keep flaming me because of the U9-style gazer. :)
[18:51:59] <Eldron> lol..
[18:52:00] <vividos> hehe
[18:53:49] <vividos> Eldron: the images are in tga, if that's ok
[18:54:00] <Eldron> no problem with that
[18:54:37] <vegai> vividos: ok, weird. No errors even on gdb, just a black screen
[18:54:55] <vegai> vividos: might be my system bugging, of course. It's fairly unstable
[18:55:07] <vegai> and optimized to hell ;) xfree is -O1, however
[18:55:40] <vividos> what is the last line on console, with that black screen?
[18:57:20] <vegai> same as before
[18:57:37] <vegai> want me to put debug-statements to the code?
[18:57:50] <vegai> or can you suggest good places for them
[18:58:55] <vividos> hmm, no sorry. The video initialization stuff is all done with SDL
[18:59:17] <vividos> did you compile the tools? you could try if "mapdisp" shows the same crash
[18:59:22] <vegai> then perhaps my libsdl is borked. Have you tried it with 1.3.5?
[18:59:31] <vegai> 1.2.5, sorry
[19:00:27] <vividos> no, I more think the radeon drivers weren't built for your processor or something
[19:00:46] <vividos> (top function was something with mentioning "katmai")
[19:01:13] <vegai> this whole distro is compiled by me, sort of
[19:01:55] <vegai> ...and that would cause other programs to bug, too, wouldn't it?
[19:02:04] <vividos> yes :)
[19:02:33] <vegai> mapdisp just says Aborted
[19:02:35] <vegai> hrm..
[19:03:12] <vegai> ah, and my glibc is 2.3.1, which could cause a load of trouble as well
[19:06:03] <vegai> should I try the CVS? is that much newer than 0.5?
[19:10:42] <vividos> yes, much newer, since we have release tomorrow :)
[19:11:00] <vividos> did you run mapdisp in the proper folder? README.tools.txt has detailed instructions
[19:11:58] <vegai> release tomorrow? nice.
[19:12:21] <vegai> probably not in the proper directory
[19:13:44] <vegai> I'll checkout the cvs then, too
[19:15:11] <vegai> might be that some datafiles were corrupted earlier, since I tried the fbcon-version, which froze my box
[19:15:30] <vividos> ok
[19:15:32] <vegai> shouldn't happen in reiserfs for all I know, but who knows...
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[19:23:50] <Coren_> Urlp. I see at least 40 different quest_flags are used in UW2.
[19:24:29] <phlask> hi guys
[19:24:33] <vividos> hi phlask!
[19:24:34] <vegai> another missing #include <cctype>, this time in cvs ;)
[19:24:38] <Coren_> 'lo phlask!
[19:24:50] <vegai> (source/resource/cfgfile.cpp)
[19:24:53] <vividos> vegai: where?
[19:24:54] <phlask> just came to check if you guys were still alive & kicking
[19:25:01] <vividos> vegai: ok :)
[19:25:29] <Coren_> Woooohooo!
[19:25:30] <vividos> vegai: in what line does the error appear?
[19:25:55] <vividos> phlask: we are definitely still alive :)
[19:26:02] <Coren_> a_hack trap use CONVERSATIONS!
[19:26:26] * Coren_ dances around the channel.
[19:26:30] <vegai> vividos: don't remember... look for isspace(), that wasn't defined without cctype
[19:26:32] <vividos> hack trap? which id does it have?
[19:26:38] <vividos> vegai: ah ok
[19:26:59] <Coren_> 0x183
[19:27:03] <Coren_> UW2-specific.
[19:27:35] <Coren_> Those are the traps that have complex effects depending on quest status and all; I was fearing they were hard-coded.
[19:27:44] <phlask> right then... who can bring me up to speed - who's doing what now?
[19:27:47] <vividos> vegai: ok, readded that
[19:28:23] <vividos> phlask: QQtis does the digital music, wjp still does the linux port and I code the stuff
[19:28:37] <vegai> vividos: source/keymap.cpp has the same problem. Lines 270, 274 have isspace and isalnum
[19:28:37] <vividos> ah, Telemachos did the collision detection code
[19:28:54] <phlask> ah ok... in that case I didn't miss much ;)
[19:29:15] * Coren_ asks /the/ stupid question: "Who is phlask?" The name rings a bell.
[19:29:17] <vividos> vegai: argh, thanks. I thought I could remove them (I put the std::transform() stuff into utils.cpp)
[19:29:39] <vividos> phlask did the introduction and character creation for uwadv
[19:29:54] <phlask> a loooong time ago ;-)
[19:29:57] <vegai> vividos: well, those are pretty minor bugs, anyhow ,)
[19:30:23] <vegai> vividos: at least comparing to the apparent bug in Xfree and my video chipset
[19:30:29] <vividos> yes :)
[19:30:43] <vividos> not THAT long ago ;-)
[19:30:49] <vegai> I wish I'd learn that Linux and new hardware don't mix well
[19:30:51] <phlask> unfortunately I have been too busy with other stuff do work on uwadv - but I hope to make a comeback soon
[19:30:56] <vividos> it just was the release before this one (tomorrow)
[19:30:59] <Coren_> Ah, okay, probably read the name off the devlog or credits or somesuch.
[19:31:18] <vividos> phlask: savegame screen still waits to be done *eg*
[19:32:08] <phlask> hehe...
[19:32:19] <vegai> vividos: ok, everything else compiled fine
[19:32:25] <vividos> well well
[19:32:58] <vegai> hmm, make install tries to install that perl-script into /usr/local/bin/linux
[19:33:18] <vegai> (which doesn't exist by default -> error)
[19:33:29] <Coren_> At last. This not only explains the hack traps but also why I had conversations that seemed to have neither menus nor verbiage to begin with.
[19:33:38] <vividos> what automake version do you have?
[19:33:47] <vividos> wjp said it happens with old versions of automake
[19:33:50] <vegai> vividos: 1.6.3
[19:33:55] <vividos> hmm ...
[19:34:23] <vegai> same black-screen problem still
[19:34:41] <vegai> uhh, DRI is off
[19:35:07] <Coren_> Which X do you use, vegai?
[19:36:22] <vegai> ok, with DRI, I finally get something
[19:36:26] <vegai> Coren_: 4.2.1
[19:36:47] * Coren_ goes to check the internal devlog for that release.
[19:37:10] <vegai> that is, I get the first intro pictures (saying "Origin Systems" and "Ultima Underworld")
[19:37:20] <vegai> but when there should be a menu, there is only a white screen
[19:38:03] <Coren_> vegai: I can see no GL-related known warts in 4.2.1; you may want to upgrade your Mesa base though.
[19:38:06] <vividos> when starting uwadv, there are printed some OpenGL diagnostics. could you paste these here?
[19:38:42] <vividos> I think your driver doesn't support textures larger than 256x256
[19:39:01] <vegai> vividos: ah, that might be. With only 8MB video ram and all that
[19:39:18] <vegai> oh, it says Max Texture size: 256x256
[19:39:28] <vegai> spam
[19:39:30] <Coren_> vividos: Many will not; you may want to make sure you never do use such large textures; I had to steer clear of 'em in LoW because of some Voodoo users.
[19:39:30] <vegai> OpenGL stats:
[19:39:30] <vegai> bit depths: red/green/blue/alpha = 5/6/5/0, depth=16
[19:39:30] <vegai> max. texture size = 256 x 256, max. lights = 8
[19:39:30] <vegai> stack depths: name stack = 64, modelview stack = 32, proj. stack = 32
[19:39:30] <vegai> vendor: VA Linux Systems, Inc.
[19:39:32] <vegai> renderer: Mesa DRI Radeon 20010402 AGP 1x x86/MMX/SSE
[19:39:35] <vegai> version: 1.2 Mesa 3.4.2
[19:39:38] <phlask> I'll check back with you guys soon 'k
[19:40:01] <vividos> and check out the release tomorrow!
[19:40:10] <vividos> vegai: yes, max. texture size
[19:40:30] <vegai> vividos: hmm. Perhaps if I tried again with lower resolution
[19:40:42] <phlask> I will most certainly ;)
[19:40:44] <phlask> bye now
[19:40:47] <vividos> bye!
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[19:41:04] <vividos> vegai: I think the texture size is limited by the driver
[19:41:04] <Coren_> vegai: Nope. I just checked the Radeo DRI source and 256x256 is all you get, even in the latest devel CVS.
[19:41:23] <Coren_> vegai: That's actually a limit of the chipset.
[19:41:52] <Coren_> Mesa3D 5.0 will cope, but downgrade to software texture mapping.
[19:41:56] <vegai> actually no. I lowered the resolution, and the max texture size raised
[19:42:03] * Coren_ starts.
[19:42:15] <vegai> perhaps I have a patched X, I'm not 100% sure ;)
[19:42:22] <Coren_> We /downgraded/ that?
[19:42:29] * Coren_ checks the changelogs.
[19:43:35] <Coren_> Ah; wait; you use the kernel module, right?
[19:43:36] <vegai> ok, is this interesting? Now, it doesn't even show the intro screens that worked earlier
[19:43:44] <Coren_> Are you using a 2.5 kernel?
[19:43:47] <vegai> Coren_: yes, but that's a patched one too ;)
[19:43:57] <vegai> 2.4
[19:44:09] <vegai> 2.4 + lots-of-patch-I-don't-want-to-know-about
[19:44:27] <vegai> (disclaimer: this is my toy box)
[19:44:53] <vegai> perhaps I should've shown the disclaimer earlier..
[19:45:07] <Coren_> That might be your booboo right there. From what I can read, since 4.2.0 we check on certain 2.5 features for DRI modules-- it is possible that the detection is failing for some reason on your box and it's trying to use 2.5 functionality.
[19:46:44] <Coren_> Try using a 4.1 X, or a 2.5 kernel, and see if that fixes the bug. :) Neither of which is a trivial prospect, I grant.
[19:46:58] <vegai> hmm... what would happen, if the sound-devices were unavailable? (in use, that is)
[19:47:11] <vegai> or, if I were using arts or something
[19:47:26] <vegai> would that cause an endless loop somewhere?
[19:48:05] <vegai> indeed. With A bit more conservative desktop (evilwm as opposed to KDE-3.1 ;), uwadv works now, when max resolution is less than 800x600 ;)
[19:48:28] <vegai> so it was my fault mostly, but I think uwadv should detect this, right?
[19:48:43] <vividos> what exactly?
[19:49:22] <Coren_> vividos: I would really recommend never using textures above 256x256 in the first place; the Radeon driver apparently now can cope if it has enough texture memory, but Voodoo cards definitely will refuse anything over that.
[19:50:56] <vividos> Coren: I know that, but I didn't rule out every part that's using larger textures
[19:51:16] * Coren_ chuckles.
[19:51:57] <Coren_> Some project leader you are!
[19:51:59] * Coren_ ducks.
[19:52:05] <Coren_> :giggles.
[19:52:12] <vegai> heh
[19:52:18] * Coren_ kicks his typist. "I SAID: /me on IRC!"
[19:52:20] <vegai> is this project related to the LoW in any way, btw?
[19:52:47] <Coren_> vegai: No, we just exchange information and shoot the breeze together.
[19:53:08] <vegai> mmkay. UW1 and UW2 are too different to use the same engine?
[19:53:27] <Coren_> vegai: Possibly not; but we're also using very different approaches to the same problem.
[19:53:27] <vividos> I wouldn't say that
[19:53:44] <vividos> (that uw1 and uw2 are that different)
[19:53:46] <Coren_> vegai: I expect both our engines will eventually allow to play both games; but each in its own way and style.
[19:53:58] <vegai> competition's healthy, of course
[19:54:20] <Coren_> vegai: Vividos is aiming for a faithful recreation, I'm being a bit more liberal in my reconception of the interface.
[19:55:18] <Coren_> vegai: I don't think we can be said to compete at all; we're more complementary to each other.
[19:56:33] <vegai> well, I wasn't talking about combats leading to one of you dying..
[19:56:46] <vividos> it's also good to have someone to talk about the (almost) same things
[19:57:01] <Coren_> vegai: Our differing philosophies is probably best illustrated with a simple example: while Vividos's chest are likely to dump their contents on the ground like the original does, I allow manipulation of their contents like any other movable containers. Subtle, but it shows where we diverge.
[19:58:35] <Coren_> Then again, I've just presumed how he's /going/ to make things from what he's done. He might actually not do this at all. :)
[20:00:01] <vividos> well, that "chest content" idea is really good ... :)
[20:00:11] * Coren_ chuckles.
[20:00:25] <Coren_> See what I meant about exchanging information?
[20:00:46] <vegai> if your projects are anything like mine, you're just doing something and hoping it'll work out soon ;)
[20:01:06] <vegai> then again, I haven't been on anything quite serious yet
[20:01:36] <Coren_> I think we both agree that picking each other's brains benefits both projects without hindering either.
[20:01:48] <vegai> yeah
[20:02:02] <Coren_> Eeep! Class in <60 mins and I still have to take a shower!
[20:02:05] * Coren_ waves.
[20:02:36] <vividos> 'till then!
[20:02:38] * Coren_ is away: school
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[20:13:01] <wjp> hi
[20:13:51] <wjp> vegai: make install installs ua-lowercase-all.pl into /usr/local/bin/linux for you?
[20:15:39] <vegai> wjp: yes
[20:16:31] <wjp> could you email/dcc me your source/Makefile?
[20:16:44] <wjp> pretty weird.. I use automake 1.6.3 too and it works ok here
[20:17:11] <wjp> (and it should work ok according to the docs, since the path should be stripped of installable files by default)
[20:36:51] * vividos wonders if he should also include enchantment descriptions in the "look at" description for objects
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[20:44:07] <vividos> hi QQtis
[20:45:37] <vividos> do you mind some compiling/testing?
[20:46:03] * wjp pings vegai; still here? :-)
[20:46:20] <wjp> hi QQtis
[20:48:23] <QQtis> sure
[20:48:25] <QQtis> hold on
[20:48:40] <QQtis> we nearing our release?
[20:50:12] <vividos> yes :) I just wanted to verify if the wall textures still have those lines (I did changes to try to remove them)
[20:51:42] <yot> vividos: already time for a new release? :>
[20:52:24] <vividos> tomorrow is release :)
[20:52:43] <yot> arf
[20:52:44] <yot> :(
[20:52:56] <yot> tomorrow I have to prepare for my exam :>
[20:54:04] <vividos> that's bad. of course the release will be available on SF for a bit longer :)
[20:57:15] <QQtis> well last night when I checked there were no lines per se
[20:57:18] <QQtis> however....
[20:57:25] <QQtis> it did not blend between textures
[20:57:40] <QQtis> so you could still see a sharp distinction where one texture ended and teh next began
[20:57:45] <QQtis> maybe that's netural
[20:57:48] <QQtis> natural
[20:59:17] <QQtis> hm...
[20:59:18] <vividos> between same textures there shouldn't be a seam
[20:59:19] <QQtis> argh
[20:59:39] <QQtis> ok there are are still lines around flasks and compass
[21:00:12] <vividos> yes I know. I just hoped to improve the wall textures
[21:02:12] <QQtis> oh ok
[21:02:20] <QQtis> well wall textures are definitely improved
[21:02:27] <QQtis> however - the first human NPX
[21:02:28] <QQtis> NPC
[21:02:45] <QQtis> he is either too short or his texture is positioned too low on the Y axis
[21:02:50] <QQtis> it wasn't that way before
[21:04:40] <QQtis> and if I can just be honest to the point of being rude... can you please make it stop looking at things on a left click?
[21:05:54] <vividos> I just change that
[21:07:42] <vividos> the texture for the first npc is a bit small, but the placement should be ok
[21:10:57] <QQtis> ok it crashed again
[21:11:01] <QQtis> weird
[21:11:10] <QQtis> nothing in the output file specifies why
[21:11:20] <QQtis> only has teh 2 instances of looking logged
[21:11:34] <vividos> hmm strange
[21:11:36] <QQtis> but it crashes when I leftclick to move ahead
[21:11:53] <QQtis> somehow I am convinced that it has something to do with looking
[21:14:39] <vividos> hmm, don't know
[21:14:40] <vividos> bbl
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[22:29:53] <wjp> hi again
[22:30:56] <vegai> wjp: sorry about that, was away
[22:31:00] <vegai> at least mentally
[22:31:19] <wjp> np :-)
[22:33:22] <vegai> kinda sick I am, I think
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[22:48:32] <vividos> re
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[23:27:33] <wjp> I should be going
[23:27:34] <wjp> bye
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