#uwadv@irc.freenode.net logs for 21 Aug 2002 (GMT)

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Underworld Adventures homepage

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[08:38:17] <Dominus> hi
[08:38:29] <yot> hi
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[16:39:57] <vividos> hi
[16:40:08] <Dominus> hi
[16:40:57] <vividos> work on win32 installer is almost finished!
[16:41:18] <wjp> hi
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[16:45:48] <vividos> wjp?
[16:46:41] <Dominus> vividos, btw. I expect hundreds of cheats built in Uwadv...
[16:47:01] <vividos> for the release candidate? :-)
[16:47:19] <Dominus> whenever it is playable
[16:47:44] <vividos> for self-built versions, yes
[16:48:43] <vividos> but I don't see a point to spoil common people's game experience
[16:49:11] <wjp> yes?
[16:49:21] <Dominus> I have to admit I'm a cheater whenever I can
[16:50:16] <vividos> when you have time, could you add a line/paragraph/whatever that describes the "make uninstall" target for uwadv, in README.Linux.txt?
[16:50:20] <vividos> Dominus: :)
[16:50:56] <wjp> yeah, sure
[16:51:15] <vividos> most people probably don't know about that, and it would be fine to mention
[16:52:05] <vividos> btw, rpm building does work now?
[16:55:56] <vividos> and another question, where is uwadv.cfg placed when doing a "make install" on linux?
[16:57:52] <wjp> in /usr/share/games/uwadv
[16:58:03] <wjp> (or /usr/local/share/games/uwadv, depending on your prefix)
[16:58:17] <vividos> thx
[17:08:58] <vividos> Dominus: I just made another installer, this time it should have all features wanted
[17:09:30] <Dominus> he he
[17:14:57] * vividos smiles about that Untima 9
[17:19:16] <vividos> don't ask why I sent the last mail twice :)
[17:19:42] <Dominus> why did you send the last mail twice?
[17:19:45] <Dominus> :-)
[17:21:25] * Dominus points out that Telemachos is part of the team now
[17:22:04] <Dominus> I think that startmenu and desktop icon needs to be seperate points
[17:23:08] <Dominus> but the configurator looks good
[17:28:02] <vividos> Dominus: mail: don't know :)
[17:28:27] * vividos knows that Dominus hates desktop icons :)
[17:28:55] <Dominus> what I mean is some people would probably like to get the startmenu but not the desktop icon
[17:29:16] <vividos> "Underworld Adventures is Copyright (c) 2002 Underworld Adventures team" should do it for the future
[17:29:20] <vividos> I know
[17:29:41] <vividos> I'll probably change that, too
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[17:38:56] <wjp> hi phlask
[17:39:17] <phlask> hi wjp (and everyone else)
[17:39:17] <Dominus> hi
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[17:47:07] <phlask> does anyone here know anything about the initial mana points a player gets when he starts the game
[17:47:37] <wjp> hm, no
[17:47:51] <wjp> there may be some character creation guides 'out there' with more info, though
[17:47:54] <vividos> hi phlask
[17:48:10] <phlask> hi vividos
[17:48:30] <phlask> hmm... yeah I just need to find one then... it is very hard to figure out by trial&error
[17:49:42] <phlask> the mana points aren't shown in the character creation screen in the original game... so I have to create a new character go into the game and check the value there (but I can't get back) so I have to exit/restart.... well, it is not a pleasant ordeal
[17:49:53] <wjp> or you could try rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons, they know pretty much everything :-)
[17:52:06] <phlask> hmm, I suppose I could... but then again I doubt if anyone ever tried to find out the logic behind this. It seems of no relevance unless you wanted to create a remake...
[17:52:38] <phlask> It is worth a try nevertheless though
[17:54:31] <phlask> vividos: are the health/mana indicators in the game already functional?
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[17:55:25] <phlask> (not that it matters much for finding out the correct intial values btw ;)
[18:00:28] <vividos> do they differ from character class to another?
[18:00:45] <vividos> hi xmm
[18:00:58] <phlask> vividos: regarding the inital value?
[18:01:06] <vividos> yes
[18:01:31] <vividos> some ultimas only gave different initial hitpoints when selecting different character classes
[18:01:35] <vividos> IIRC
[18:02:10] <phlask> well... yes, but it is a real pain to find this out as mentioned earlier... so I've only checked it with Fighter (seems to be always 2) and Mage (somewhere around 34 if I'm not mistaken)
[18:02:41] <phlask> I'm not sure if these values are fixed or random within a range (as with all other initial stats/skills)
[18:03:12] * vividos offers to try around a bit later in the evening
[18:03:29] <phlask> fine with me :)
[18:05:13] <phlask> regarding the install package: are you sure it is OK to distribute MakeNSIS without a license text file? (just to be on the safe side)
[18:05:52] <Dominus> yes, i wondered about this
[18:08:07] <xmm> hi vividos :-) (little late, e?)
[18:08:37] <vividos> :)
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[18:08:51] <phlask> well...
[18:08:56] <vividos|away> phlask: sorry
[18:09:01] <vividos|away> phlask: I think it's ok
[18:09:08] <vividos|away> phlask: have to check later
[18:09:15] <phlask> 'k till then
[18:12:20] <phlask> bbl
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[19:18:11] <vividos> Mana Skill: Your ability to manipulate magical energy This skill increases your maximum number of Mana points
[19:35:04] <vividos> wjp, did you already look at the zziplib configure.ac?
[19:42:32] <wjp> yeah, a bit
[19:42:56] <wjp> I have it building properly when I manually 'autogen'+configure the zziplib directory
[19:50:27] <vividos> good :) any other news?
[19:50:53] <vividos> did you try gcc-3.2 yet?
[19:51:02] <vividos> (reading #exult log)
[19:52:22] <Dominus> I haven't and after Kirben ran into the compile problem I won't until that is fixed :-)
[19:52:45] * vividos is tempted to try mingw32-gcc-3.2
[19:53:10] <Dominus> I am as well
[19:53:58] <vividos> from the release info: And reading the source (1) is always a good
[19:53:58] <vividos> character building exercise.
[19:54:04] <vividos> hehe
[19:54:15] * vividos doesn't want to start reading gcc source
[19:57:49] <vividos> strange, if you keep the SF mirrors page open, it continuously tries to download the selected file
[19:58:54] <Dominus> ugh
[19:59:25] <vividos> ?
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[19:59:42] <vividos> hi phlask
[19:59:48] <Dominus> that it tries to download again and again and again...
[19:59:51] <phlask> hi again
[19:59:54] <vividos> I wrote a mail to uwadv-devel with my findings
[20:00:14] <vividos> Dominus: maybe a result of using a web filter :)
[20:00:33] <phlask> uh?
[20:00:51] <vividos> yeah, gcc-3.2 bombs at the first file :)
[20:02:11] <vividos> d'oh, SDL is missing
[20:02:30] <vividos> phlask: I meant the max. mana values for char. creation
[20:03:41] <phlask> oh... I haven't received it yet - hmm, did you sent it just now?
[20:04:45] <vividos> yes. just got it
[20:05:00] <Dominus> got it as well
[20:05:33] <phlask> well... hotmail isn't exactly the fastest service on earth
[20:09:58] <phlask> hmm... does anyone know the difference between Easy and Normal difficulty for the game (I've only played the game in Normal mode)?
[20:10:12] <phlask> Is it just the combat that is easier?
[20:10:25] <Dominus> I think so...
[20:10:49] <phlask> has anyone here ever played the game in Easy mode?
[20:11:21] <Dominus> I think I tried it once but I'm not sure...
[20:11:42] <phlask> not a memorable experience then ;)
[20:12:29] <vividos> last time I played it could be that I chose "easy" mode, since the monsters are so easy to beat
[20:12:42] <vividos> although I advanced quite a bit in axe
[20:13:01] <phlask> :)
[20:13:36] <phlask> The last time I played UW1 I noticed something curious btw... jumps are really unrealistic
[20:14:20] <Dominus> ?
[20:14:24] <vividos> yes, you jump 3 or 4 tiles wide
[20:14:45] <phlask> yeah... I doubt any human (without a pogo-stick) can beat that trick
[20:14:52] <vividos> that is more than a whole bridge wide, e.g.
[20:15:05] <wjp> impressive trick in full plate mail :-)
[20:15:11] <Dominus> true
[20:15:12] <vividos> maybe the avatar is thrown in the abyss with only a pogo-stick :)
[20:15:32] <phlask> lol
[20:15:34] <Dominus> or he is still wearing his adidas
[20:15:44] <Dominus> oh, no he has no equipment at the sttart
[20:16:08] <phlask> anyhow... I think we should make the physics in our little remake a bit more realistic
[20:17:01] <wjp> it might break some jumping puzzles
[20:17:49] <phlask> I doubt it... some jumping puzzles in the original were sooo easy (just a matter of a couple of consecutive Shift+J's)
[20:19:31] <phlask> we could make the distance you can jump dependent on the amount of stuff you are carrying
[20:19:39] <vividos> that would be good
[20:20:08] <wjp> as long as it's optional, IMHO
[20:20:13] * vividos thinks that compiling STLport with gcc-3.2 is broken
[20:20:15] <vividos> why optional?
[20:20:20] <phlask> so you can still jump far if you drop some items (if necessary)
[20:20:38] <phlask> as long as it breaks none of the puzzles it should be fine
[20:21:15] <vividos> we could start the shortening of jump distance with very high loads, e.g. < 10 stones
[20:21:46] <phlask> I agree...
[20:22:19] <phlask> well... we can see how it works out once we get to the game physics
[20:22:37] <wjp> I'd still make it a configurable option, though. Some people will definitely want it to work as close to the original as possible
[20:23:13] <phlask> yeah... we could add an option for this in the config file
[20:23:59] <phlask> uwadv_extensions or something similar, which enables/disables all extenstions to the game
[20:24:28] * wjp nods; sounds good
[20:25:20] <vividos> uwadv compiles fine using gcc-3.2
[20:25:28] <phlask> vividos: the current center of the 3D view seems different from the original... is the center of the player viewpoint actually the center of the 3D window or the whole screen?
[20:25:44] <vividos> it seems that even the frame has increased a bit in the ingame
[20:26:05] <vividos> phlask: it's the center of the whole screen
[20:26:26] <vividos> but we should maybe change that :)
[20:26:37] <phlask> yeah for the original interface at least
[20:27:10] <vividos> yes
[20:28:18] <phlask> oh... before I forget: the game crashed when I tried to do a quicksave earlier today
[20:29:06] <wjp> hm, quicksave?
[20:29:09] <wjp> what exactly is saved currently?
[20:29:13] <vividos> you have to create a "uasave" folder in your current working folder
[20:29:26] <phlask> oh... right, that must be it then :)
[20:29:45] <vividos> level maps and player
[20:30:21] <vividos> that reminds me of ... wjp, where should the savegames be saved in the linux version? :)
[20:30:31] <wjp> good question
[20:30:57] <wjp> definitely user-definable, but something like ~/.uwadv/saves by default maybe?
[20:31:12] <vividos> it's already user-definable, it's in the uwadv.cfg
[20:31:22] <wjp> k :-)
[20:31:52] <vividos> we probably should change the setting in uwadv.cfg.in and create a ~/.uwadv/ somewhere
[20:31:53] <phlask> hmm.. on multi-user OSes vividos... are user specific files also stored in user folders for Windows NT/2000/XP?
[20:32:11] <vividos> what reminds me of ... how to mkdir a folder platform-independent?
[20:32:37] <wjp> borrow exult's U7mkdir?
[20:33:01] <vividos> phlask: no, as the windows versions only use the uwadv.cfg in the uwadv.exe's current folder
[20:33:13] <vividos> wjp: what file can I find that?
[20:33:18] <wjp> files/utils.cc
[20:33:25] * vividos looks at it
[20:33:52] <wjp> you could have uwadv for windows look in user folders for the config files too, btw
[20:34:04] <phlask> well... how about multiple user systems on Windows NT based then? Are they forced to use a system wide config file? That sucks
[20:34:50] <wjp> phlask: take a look at ua_files_manager::init_cfgfiles_list()
[20:34:51] <vividos> lots of #ifdefs :)
[20:34:59] <wjp> vividos: tried and tested, though :-)
[20:35:31] <vividos> phlask: that would make uwadv less platform-independent, but if you come up with a good idea
[20:35:48] <wjp> vividos: why not have it look in a user directory if it exists?
[20:35:59] <vividos> phlask: it basically only would require changes in files.cpp, where the list of cfg files is generated
[20:36:00] <wjp> (or just add the filename to the list anyway)
[20:36:27] <wjp> oh, btw, I think I mentioned it, but you can add non-existant files to the list of config files
[20:36:43] <wjp> it'll catch the file-not-found exception and pretty much ignore it
[20:37:21] <phlask> I'm sure that there is a fairly easy way to just check for the file in the Windows user home dir
[20:37:31] <vividos> phlask: what's a typical example of a user folder name for a user on such a system?
[20:37:56] <phlask> My Documents is always user specific and always available :)
[20:38:13] <wjp> not the right place for it, though, isn't it?
[20:38:33] <vividos> don't know :) it's the folder where I put all my downloads in :)
[20:38:50] * wjp logs in to a w2k terminal server
[20:39:04] <phlask> no... but not all multi user configurations for Windows force the existence of an actual single home folder
[20:39:46] <wjp> I have a 'documents and settings' directory here
[20:39:46] <phlask> But you can create a user specific folder with the installer though
[20:41:11] <phlask> I am not an expert on multi-user programming for Windows... but I'm sure you can find the details on this topic in the Platform SDK
[20:41:31] <phlask> including info on home folders and where to store user specific files
[20:42:10] <wjp> if there's just a couple of options I'd just add all of them to the list of possible config file locations
[20:42:16] <vividos> wjp, what does get_system_path() do?
[20:42:49] <wjp> it translates something like "<STATIC>/xform.tbl" into a proper path like "/data/u7/static/xform.tbl"
[20:42:56] <vividos> ah ok
[20:43:14] <vividos> I think that's not needed for uwadv
[20:43:17] <wjp> including translating the path to the correct format
[20:43:34] <phlask> darn... there is another issue I hadn't thought of: When you install the program with the NSIS installer as a normal user on a NT system then the program is installed only for that user
[20:43:35] <wjp> (:'s for MacOS, \'s for windows, /'s for unixes)
[20:44:05] <vividos> phlask: you can change that with an option
[20:44:05] <wjp> phlask: isn't that desired behaviour?
[20:44:07] <phlask> So you need to install it as an administrator and for all users (I'm not sure if NSIS can do this)
[20:44:26] <phlask> vividos: ok, I didn't know that
[20:49:30] <vividos> wjp: small problem with mkdir; don't know which include is necessary for msvc :/
[20:49:49] <wjp> windows.h? :-)
[20:50:05] <wjp> otherwise you'll have to bug Colourless about it tomorrow ;-)
[20:50:28] <vividos> hehe
[20:50:48] <vividos> do you think the sprintf.cc implementation is good?
[20:50:58] <wjp> which one?
[20:51:03] <phlask> vividos: mkdir is in direct.h
[20:51:40] <vividos> mkdir or _mkdir?
[20:52:11] <wjp> vividos: you mean the snprintf in files/snprintf.cc?
[20:52:38] <phlask> _mkdir
[20:52:57] <vividos> wjp: yes
[20:53:10] <wjp> it's good enough for what exult needs it for
[20:53:18] <wjp> lacks a couple of things like floats, though
[20:54:18] <phlask> mkdir too btw
[20:54:41] <vividos> ah works, ok
[20:55:17] <vividos> wjp: I'll look at snprintf.cc, but I maybe write a simpler one
[20:55:26] <vividos> have to go then. bye!
[20:55:30] <phlask> #include <direct.h>
[20:55:30] <phlask> #include <stdlib.h>
[20:55:30] <phlask> #include <stdio.h>
[20:55:36] <phlask> never mind that
[20:55:43] <phlask> I clearly need some rest
[20:55:47] <wjp> bye vividos
[20:56:00] <vividos> me too, phlask :)
[20:56:06] <-- vividos has left IRC ("Leaving")
[20:56:06] <phlask> :) I'm out of here too
[20:56:10] <wjp> bye
[20:56:15] <phlask> bye
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[22:53:12] <Dominus> hmm, doesn't compile for me atm
[22:53:51] <wjp> problem with the build mechanism or with the sources?
[22:53:57] <wjp> hm, brb
[22:54:17] <Dominus> I can tell you when it stops again...
[22:54:52] <Dominus> source/win32/source/main.o(.text+0x40):main.cpp: multiple definition of `SDL_main'
[22:54:52] <Dominus> source/linux/main.o(.text+0x10):main.cpp: first defined here
[22:54:52] <Dominus> make: *** [uwadv.exe] Error 1
[22:57:20] <Dominus> well, I have main.o in source/linux and source/win32/source which must not be right...
[22:57:22] <wjp> ah, it's building both mains :-)
[22:58:16] * wjp is trying to compile uwadv on freebsd in the meantime
[23:03:58] <wjp> almost got it... :-)
[23:04:05] <Dominus> he
[23:06:08] <wjp> could you try current cvs?
[23:06:59] <Dominus> doing so
[23:07:31] * wjp is trying yet another compile on freebsd
[23:11:26] <wjp> yikes, lots of warnings
[23:14:51] * wjp hmmmms
[23:15:04] <wjp> the main binary built, but it's choking on the.. uh.. config file?!
[23:16:15] <Dominus> ok, worked now
[23:16:15] <Dominus> source/level.cpp:237: warning: assignment to `Uint16' from `double'
[23:16:15] <Dominus> source/level.cpp:237: warning: argument to `short unsigned int' from `double'
[23:16:15] <Dominus> these?
[23:16:47] <wjp> nah, only around 8 of those
[23:16:50] <Dominus> hmm, is that save feature supposed to work
[23:16:50] <Dominus> ?
[23:16:52] <wjp> I mean _LOTS_ of warnings :-)
[23:17:03] <wjp> yes, if you manually create the savegame directory ('uasave')
[23:17:25] <wjp> oh, silly me... I was using freebsd's make instead of GNU make
[23:17:43] <wjp> yay, it actually runs on that freebsd box :-)
[23:17:51] <wjp> (of course it can't find the game files, but who cares :-) )
[23:18:17] <Dominus> hm, the saving doesn't work for me
[23:18:23] <Dominus> F11/F12?
[23:18:45] <wjp> think so
[23:18:50] <wjp> haven't tried it myself yet, though
[23:20:14] <Dominus> and once again stdout is written on prgram ending and not on runtime....
[23:20:30] <wjp> well, stdout is generally buffered
[23:20:52] <wjp> it should output it after every couple of Kb or something
[23:21:25] <wjp> but if you use std::cout << std::endl it should automatically flush the buffer
[23:22:24] <wjp> ah... uwadv uses printf, not cout
[23:30:11] <Dominus> hmm, the system shock project doesn't look to bad as well
[23:31:59] <wjp> ?logs
[23:31:59] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/uwadvlog.php
[23:32:05] <wjp> (just checking ;-) )
[23:35:53] <wjp> hm, 1:35 already
[23:36:12] <wjp> was it compiling properly for you now, btw?
[23:37:31] <Dominus> yep
[23:37:40] <Dominus> those warnings came but it compiled
[23:38:25] <wjp> I should go fix some warnings tomorrow or something
[23:40:13] <wjp> anyway, time to go to bed first
[23:40:13] <wjp> g'night
[23:40:24] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz...")
[23:40:28] <Dominus> sleep well :-)
[23:40:42] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("Exult! Exult! Exult!")