Underworld Adventures homepage
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[00:54:08] <Telemachos> evening
[00:56:56] <vividos> hi Telemachos!
[00:59:02] <Telemachos> new release out huh? Must check that out soon ;)
[00:59:15] <vividos> :) not much new
[01:00:27] <Telemachos> did anyone implement that accelleration/deaccelleration of the player velocity ... or did that idea die at the thought?
[01:00:47] <vividos> no, that wasn't implemented yet
[01:01:03] <vividos> I added bridges in CVS, with proper CD
[01:01:34] <Telemachos> aahh.. nice... with bridge info from the uw.exe?
[01:02:01] <vividos> yes
[01:02:22] <vividos> unfortunately some models use polygons larger than tri's and quads
[01:02:59] <Telemachos> it's pretty easy to tesselate a polygon into triangles
[01:03:23] <vividos> well, CD would be more forgiving anyway
[01:03:41] <Telemachos> does CD cause problems with the bridges?
[01:05:16] <vividos> no, these are only quads that I simply subdivided
[01:07:18] <vividos> how do I subdivide a poly with 5 vertices?
[01:07:39] <Telemachos> do you have them in clockwise order?
[01:07:41] <vividos> I tried to take 0 1 2 / 0 2 3 / 0 3 4
[01:07:48] <vividos> not sure about that
[01:09:16] <Telemachos> you can subdivide it by starting with 0 1 2 .. then 0 2 3, 0 3 4, 0 4 5
[01:09:29] <Telemachos> uhm.. that was a 6-vertex polygon... but you get the idea
[01:09:32] <vividos> ^yes
[01:09:40] <Telemachos> nice and easy to make an algorithm for
[01:09:50] <vividos> I tried to use that, but it somehow looked ugly
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[01:10:06] <vividos> trying to get you a sample screenshot for that
[01:10:09] <Telemachos> ugly or incorrect shape?
[01:10:13] <Telemachos> ok
[01:11:04] <Telemachos> well, you'll need to have the vertices in either clockwise or anticlockwise order to be able to tesselate it.. but the original UW engine would need that too so they should be in SOME kind of order
[01:11:19] <vividos> incorrect shape
[01:13:35] <Telemachos> I'll be damned.. the uwadv.exe built in first try after my first cvs update in ages ;) he heh
[01:14:05] <vividos> http://www.asamnet.de/~finkm/uwadv/shrine.jpg
[01:14:19] <vividos> hehe :)
[01:14:20] <Telemachos> but I cant make the data or tools target... hmm...
[01:14:32] <vividos> at least data should work ...
[01:15:07] <vividos> tools probably is broken
[01:15:32] <vividos> are
[01:16:05] <Telemachos> hmm.. something wierd happens with data.. do I need to build the luac or something?
[01:17:40] <Servus> telemachos do you do all your own dirty physics/trig work or do you use helper code/libs?
[01:18:03] <Servus> lookslike its connecting the vertices in the wrong order to me...:)
[01:18:07] <Telemachos> I do it all myself ;)
[01:18:29] <vividos> http://www.asamnet.de/~finkm/uwadv/shrine2.jpg
[01:19:02] <Telemachos> hmm.. on that first shot.. aren't the vertices at strange places too ?
[01:19:23] <vividos> no, the vertices should be correct
[01:19:29] <vividos> (see second image)
[01:20:16] <Telemachos> hmm.. I thought the ankh was more "symmetric" in the original.. but I might remember wrong
[01:21:10] <Telemachos> throw me a message on the ICQ vividos.. can't see you online
[01:21:13] <Servus> i had a terrible time doing my own vertex normals and finding the exact height of any point within a quad that i use as the tile for my ground... i never want to see a cross product again!
[01:21:56] <Telemachos> the height.. for collision againt a terrain?
[01:21:59] <Servus> but if anyways wants my $0.02 (and i doubt they do, but anyways...) have you checked your func to make sure it's not simply connecting the wrong vertices?
[01:22:02] <Servus> precisely, telemachos
[01:22:33] <Servus> im using a quad-patch grid, x and y values locked into a standard grid, but the z (height) value of each point is as good as random
[01:22:42] <vividos> probably. I think I just render the polygons as they are specified in the 3d models "language"
[01:23:28] <Servus> well the "arm" on the left side is being connected with a triangle to the "base", and there should obviously be no triangle there:P
[01:24:48] <vividos> well, if it was a concave polygon, the line could appear from subdividing
[01:25:25] <Telemachos> hmm well.. that algorithm I mentioned only works for convex polygons
[01:25:33] <Telemachos> that might be the problem actually
[01:25:35] <vividos> of course
[01:25:53] <vividos> well, created triangles would suffice for collision detection
[01:26:12] <Telemachos> maybe you could try simply drawing the segments of the polygon as lines when rendering? Dont know how difficult that would be to test
[01:27:34] <vividos> the subdividing is done when reading in, but I'll reorganize builtin model rendering
[01:28:55] <Servus> how fun, doing 3d model interpretation is what im just about to start on :-/
[01:31:38] <vividos> what models? from uw1?
[01:32:59] <Servus> my own project im using to learn a bit more http://www.geocities.com/russell_figowitz/images/Misc/Engine03.jpg im working on more physics stuff now, but this is about it
[01:34:34] <vividos> ah nice
[01:36:09] <Servus> thanks:) everything works right now i think, and the physics work alright, you can even do running jumps off ramps etc, so now i just need to make the player model look a bit more believeable:)... any suggestions for file formats, or to make my own?
[01:37:02] <Telemachos> nice skybox ;)
[01:37:07] <Servus> hehe
[01:37:19] <Servus> well photoshop is nice:P
[01:41:05] <Servus> any 3d model suggestions?
[01:41:20] <Servus> last time i did it i used direct3d's retained mode, but im trying to do everything myself
[01:43:12] <Telemachos> what do you need from the model format? any kind of animation?
[01:44:04] <Servus> textured triangles with vertex normals, smoothing groups, and animation, preferably on a skeletal system e.g. a half-life .mdl file
[01:44:14] <Servus> wonder if .mdl is proprietary :)
[01:44:53] <Telemachos> well, you can always use mdl.. no-one will know ;) he heh
[01:45:14] <Servus> i want to do everything on my own... its the only way to learn:)
[01:45:28] <Telemachos> write a plugin for 3ds max then
[01:47:03] <Servus> i have the SDK... guess ill have ta
[01:47:12] <Dark-Star> afaik .mdl is not proprietary... I seem to remember seeing some open source viewers/converters for it...
[01:47:33] <Servus> because quake is open source:)
[01:47:45] <Servus> doesnt mean its free for use tho
[01:47:48] <Servus> necessarily
[01:48:59] <Dark-Star> ok, but "free-for-use" a different thing to "proprietary"...
[01:49:38] <Servus> well im going to sell this game for $5 million to EA, remember? *guffaw*
[01:55:27] <vividos> Telemachos: ah sorry, some code patches are needed :)
[01:56:28] <Telemachos> ok ;) nevermind it then.. I'll see it when you've committed the changes
[01:56:58] <Dark-Star> got to go. bye.
[01:57:02] <Servus> bye
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[01:58:04] <vividos> you just have to add a "&& item_id != 0x0157" in line 997 of renderer.cpp
[01:58:22] <Telemachos> ok will try it...
[02:00:16] <vividos> hmm, doesn't work quite well
[02:00:27] <Telemachos> now its there at SOME angles.. but partly in the ground ;)
[02:01:04] <vividos> yes :)
[02:01:18] <Telemachos> whats that billboard trick?
[02:01:32] <vividos> in sourcecode?
[02:02:06] <Telemachos> ahh.. nevermind.. its a function for rendering objects in general. not just the 3d ones
[02:05:01] <Servus> how coudl you use billboards for anything but sprites?
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[02:05:36] <Telemachos> that's what I was wondering ;)
[02:06:56] <vividos> well, the billboard function just renders 2d sprites
[02:07:00] <Telemachos> heh.. shouldn't that model-manager class have used the singleton pattern instead? Or are there actually more than one of them?
[02:07:49] <vividos> well, every manager object could have used the singleton pattern, but I was too lazy
[02:08:14] <Telemachos> he heh.. I'm taking a course on patterns this semester ;)
[02:09:17] <vividos> surely useful
[02:10:01] <vividos> to fix shrine texture a bit, just add this to renderer.cpp:
[02:10:01] <vividos> // hack: set texture for bridge
[02:10:02] <vividos> if (item_id==0x0164 || item_id==0x0157)
[02:10:30] <vividos> I just wanted to enable bridges with this hack, to let people walk over the bridges in the first level
[02:11:28] <Servus> did you see coren's handling of doors? cant you emulate that for your doors and bridges? he makes a rectangular prism on the fly
[02:12:04] <vividos> no, didn't see that yet
[02:12:32] <Servus> well his doors are all just like they were in the real game, and look rather nice actually, and as far as i know he just made their models programatically
[02:13:22] <vividos> I really should look at his 0.4 release some time ...
[02:13:23] <Telemachos> that made the ankh stay on screen at all angles.. but it's still burried in the ground.. oh well, nevermind it ;)
[02:13:28] <vividos> well, time to go to bed
[02:13:36] <Telemachos> gotta go.. getting late here.
[02:13:39] <Telemachos> cya around
[02:13:40] <Servus> why would you want to billboard the ankh?
[02:13:41] <Servus> bye
[02:13:55] <vividos> the ankh isn't drawn billboarded
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[02:14:23] <vividos> night!
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[02:14:28] <Servus> have you looked into making your movement inertia and friction based?
[02:14:28] <Servus> grrr
[02:21:43] <Servus> i just crashed uwadv by trying to talk to a wall, or maybe it was a secret door
[03:08:54] <Servus> talking to the head bandit several times seems to make the game very unstable, ive crashed again while attempting to repeat the crash
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[03:46:41] <DarkIllusion> Servus!!
[03:46:55] <DarkIllusion> you are the other modeler? :))
[03:47:15] <DarkIllusion> um... eldron
[03:47:27] <DarkIllusion> did vivado come back to email me the mapto3ds?
[03:49:09] <DarkIllusion> eldron!!
[03:49:14] <DarkIllusion> anyone here?
[03:51:11] <DarkIllusion> servus??
[03:51:13] <DarkIllusion> eldron??
[03:51:14] <DarkIllusion> lol
[03:52:01] <Servus> im here
[03:52:16] <DarkIllusion> hey servus!!
[03:52:22] <DarkIllusion> i wanted to ask you about the lurker
[03:52:27] <Servus> i suppose im the other modeller, but i havent done much work lately on it
[03:52:32] <DarkIllusion> whether you have finished it yet
[03:52:33] <Servus> yes about the lurker?
[03:52:40] <Servus> im 60% done
[03:52:46] <DarkIllusion> oh
[03:52:46] <Servus> the models 80% done and i havent started a skin
[03:52:59] <DarkIllusion> lol. just like how the gazer is 60% done
[03:53:13] <DarkIllusion> well, hopefully you will finish it before our release
[03:53:28] <DarkIllusion> where did vivados go?
[03:53:29] <Servus> i tend to make models in ~6 hours total time
[03:53:34] <Servus> he just left in a hurry
[03:53:39] <DarkIllusion> i need an updated mapto3ds
[03:53:45] <Servus> check CVS
[03:53:54] <DarkIllusion> where is that?
[03:54:07] <DarkIllusion> no, he was making it for me
[03:54:08] <DarkIllusion> just today
[03:55:03] <Servus> ill check for you
[03:55:52] <DarkIllusion> i only have 5 mins till i get booted
[03:55:55] <DarkIllusion> stupid dialups
[03:56:00] <Servus> last update was jan 20, to me
[03:56:44] <DarkIllusion> no, it was today. :)
[03:57:03] <DarkIllusion> we would like to feature your lurker in our Mod
[03:57:12] <Servus> mod?
[03:57:15] <DarkIllusion> but i guess it won't be ready for our release. :(
[03:57:16] <Servus> ultima1?
[03:57:24] <DarkIllusion> yes, we are the Morrowind: Underworld Team
[03:57:29] <DarkIllusion> michael has helped us alot
[03:57:32] <Servus> i can finish it if its necessary
[03:57:38] <DarkIllusion> that guy is a genius
[03:57:57] <Servus> im something of an unwilling artist, id rather be a programmer:)
[03:58:23] <DarkIllusion> :) ur a C programmer as well?
[03:58:47] <DarkIllusion> well im sure you do really great artistry and programming
[03:58:58] <Servus> mediocre at best:)
[03:59:07] <Servus> are you doing underworld 1 or 2?
[04:18:56] <Servus> my main problem with the lurker is deciding just how it *should* look... i didnt exactly get to see a lot of it
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[05:42:10] <DarkIllusion> hey eldron
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[16:51:20] --- Topic for #uwadv is: "Underworld Adventures: an Ultima Underworld Remake (http://uwadv.sourceforge.net)"
[16:51:20] --- Topic for #uwadv set by vividos at Sat Dec 7 20:31:03 2002
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[19:45:09] <DarkIllusion> hello again!!
[19:46:14] <wjp> hi
[19:46:26] <DarkIllusion> is vivados about?
[19:46:42] * wjp looks around again
[19:46:47] <wjp> no, don't see him ;-)
[19:47:23] <DarkIllusion> aw
[19:47:51] <DarkIllusion> btw have you guys managed to decode the creature stats and stuff yet?
[19:49:10] <wjp> hm, don't know
[19:50:53] <DarkIllusion> well last time you hadn't. but it would really help for our Mod
[21:17:09] <DarkIllusion> does anyone have telemanchos's site?
[21:26:22] <wjp> http://peroxide.dk
[21:26:36] <wjp> or http://www.peroxide.dk/underworld/ if you're looking for the underword viewer
[21:43:41] <DarkIllusion> no, for his uw engine game
[21:46:20] <DarkIllusion> so do you guys work on the project while yuse are in here?
[21:51:35] <DarkIllusion> i wonder where michael is. hmm...
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