#uwadv@irc.freenode.net logs for 25 Nov 2002 (GMT)

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[02:04:03] --> Illlusion has joined #uwadv
[02:04:19] <Illlusion> would michael happen to be here?
[02:05:01] <Illlusion> hello?
[02:16:55] <-- Illlusion has left IRC ("When I press ALT-F4 I quit how about you? Try it and find out?")
[14:26:47] --> yot has joined #uwadv
[14:39:24] <Coren_> Hey ypt
[14:39:26] <Coren_> yot, even
[14:47:05] <yot> :)
[14:47:10] <yot> new release is cool
[14:47:30] <Coren_> Thanks. You already on it? :)
[14:47:33] <yot> I hope to see the ability to modify the world in any way :)
[14:47:55] <Coren_> Eventually. I'll start by making your UW2's works first. :)
[14:48:05] <yot> btw
[14:48:09] <yot> I bought new hardware
[14:48:12] <Coren_> That was quick, it's bee like, almost 30 whole minutes since 0.3 is out. :)
[14:48:17] <yot> that includes a new sound chip
[14:48:24] <yot> now dsound works :/
[14:48:27] <yot> I really do not understand it
[14:48:47] <Coren_> Flaky drivers, I guess.
[14:48:52] <yot> hmm
[14:49:02] <yot> it tried the one windows supplied
[14:49:06] <yot> and the ones from via
[14:49:14] <yot> both with the same resultt
[14:49:46] * Coren_ politely avoids comments about plug-and-pray. :)
[14:50:25] <Coren_> There is, nonetheless, something to be said about hardware you can actually aissign addresses and ports to so that you KNOW what they are trying to do. :)
[14:50:40] <yot> :)
[14:50:47] <yot> Coren_: what is your sf name?
[14:51:48] <Coren_> coren
[14:51:55] <Coren_> Unsurprisingly enough. :)
[14:52:26] <yot> d'oh!
[14:52:26] <yot> :>
[14:53:07] <yot> so you aren't in the uwadv team?
[14:53:41] <Coren_> Nope; I don't think there would be very much point to it anyways; I wouldn't dare mess with Michael's source anyways. :)
[14:54:30] <yot> hehe
[14:56:04] <yot> um
[14:56:06] <yot> what's this? http://low.sourceforge.net/ss4.jpg
[14:56:07] <yot> :>
[14:56:36] <Coren_> That would be the Etheral plane. With two imps.
[14:56:39] <Coren_> And a moongate.
[14:56:40] <Coren_> :)
[14:57:11] <yot> %)
[15:00:08] * Coren_ fails to understand the question.
[15:00:24] <Coren_> 'map 69'
[15:07:41] <yot> Coren
[15:07:46] <yot> what do you think about RE ?
[15:08:22] <Coren_> RE?
[15:08:28] <yot> reverse engineering
[15:09:35] <Coren_> Ah. It could also have been Regular Expressions, or Resident Evil. :)
[15:09:40] <Coren_> It's great fun. :)
[15:14:06] <Coren_> Whyfor?
[15:15:28] <yot> well
[15:15:30] <Eldron> lol..
[15:15:38] <yot> I talked to vividos sometime
[15:15:42] <yot> and I told him
[15:15:57] <yot> I would be much more happier to see uwadv be a RE project
[15:16:13] <yot> cause that's the only way to keep the game "original" in my eyes :/
[15:16:29] <yot> but they prefer to guess how the game works
[15:17:22] <Coren_> Ah, you mean in the detaila. Like the exact mechanics of combat, etc?
[15:18:03] <Coren_> I feel the same. I reverse engineer the game /data/ files, but I have not looked at the executable, and expect I never will.
[15:19:13] <Coren_> For one, I never defined LoW as a remake, but as a rewrite. The difference is subtle, but it's critical. A very good example is a detail like how I handle chests: I allow manipulation of the contents just like any other container.
[15:21:00] <Eldron> argh.. todays drawing sesson..: http://eldron.20m.com/drawing/teh_manga_final.jpg
[15:21:36] <Eldron> my hand hurts.. I want a wacom ;_;
[15:21:52] <Coren_> What's a sesson?
[15:21:59] <Coren_> And that girl is pretty. :)
[15:22:20] <Eldron> session even
[15:22:25] <Eldron> or how you spell it..
[15:22:27] * Coren_ silently hopes 'pretty' was the intent. :)
[15:22:34] <Coren_> session works for me. :)
[15:22:40] <yot> Eldron: can you remove the towel? :PPP
[15:22:44] <Eldron> >:)
[15:22:54] <Eldron> the non-towel versions are for me only
[15:23:10] * Coren_ doesn't mind the towel unless Eldron also does pretty guys. :)
[15:23:17] <yot> Coren: I know and I really like your work! But still I'd like to see a remake :/
[15:23:18] <Eldron> lol
[15:23:49] <Eldron> I have a gazer to draw..
[15:23:50] <Eldron> now
[15:23:58] <Eldron> It wont be as pretty
[15:24:01] <yot> Coren: are you female or gay? :P
[15:24:03] <Coren_> yot: The question begs asking: why bother then, unless you use the opportunity to also update the look and interface at the very least?
[15:24:26] <Coren_> yot: gay. I knew very very few females named 'Marc'. :)
[15:24:48] <yot> hehe
[15:24:49] <yot> cool :)
[15:25:30] <Coren_> There are a couple of nice-looking anime guys, but I've yet to see decent manga nudes.
[15:25:54] <Eldron> manga and anime is practicly the same :x
[15:26:02] <Eldron> except that anime is animated manga :)
[15:26:18] <yot> Coren: I have a RE project as well (Betrayal at Krondor) and I do it that way, first I create a project that is as original as possible then I give compiler flags or an .ini file - I don't know yet - which can change the interface to something new
[15:26:21] <Coren_> Now, come. You're apparently an artist-- you should know the subtle differences, especially in facial detail. :)
[15:26:27] <yot> and the use of opengl or something
[15:26:50] <Eldron> omg
[15:26:55] <Eldron> betrayal at krondor is roxxor
[15:27:04] <yot> ultraroxxor
[15:27:09] <Coren_> yot: Coolness! Point me at your rewrite!
[15:27:10] <yot> :)
[15:27:24] <yot> hehe
[15:27:45] <yot> I didn't announce the project yet
[15:27:59] <yot> everything I reversed at this moment is loading the intro
[15:28:06] <yot> but it's completely reversed
[15:28:07] <yot> :>
[15:28:13] * Coren_ chuckles.
[15:28:15] <vegai> 360 degrees?-)
[15:28:38] <yot> did you find Guarda's Revenge? :P
[15:28:41] <Coren_> vegai: No, all you see is the cameraman. :)
[15:29:48] * Coren_ wishes he had the dough for Arx Fatalis.
[15:29:59] <yot> Arx Fatalis?
[15:30:08] * Coren_ gasps.
[15:30:15] <Coren_> You don't know about Arx?
[15:30:21] <yot> no :(
[15:30:52] <Coren_> www.arxfatalis-online.com
[15:31:12] <Eldron> arx is very unknown..
[15:31:23] <Eldron> no one of my friends know what arx fatalis is :/
[15:34:00] <Coren_> I hate being a student. There is this aparent karmic rule that states that anyone who studies must be broke.
[15:34:07] <yot> Coren_: is it online only?
[15:34:24] <Coren_> It's not at all; the official website just has a funny name.
[17:14:57] --> vividos has joined #uwadv
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[17:15:02] <vividos> hi there
[17:15:09] <Coren_> Hey there!
[17:18:35] <Coren_> Have you tried 0.3 yet? :)
[17:19:58] <vividos> me?
[17:20:36] <Coren_> Yes, you. ;)
[17:20:56] * vividos just notices there's a new release of low :)
[17:21:16] <Eldron> hmm
[17:21:26] <Eldron> must try low too.. still haven't tried it :)
[17:21:46] * Coren_ beats Eldron with a clue-by-four. Shame! Shame!
[17:21:59] <Eldron> --> downloading now :)
[17:22:03] <Coren_> vividos: You're mentionned in the README now.
[17:22:22] <vividos> thanks :)
[17:22:34] <Coren_> Michael "Vividos" Fink
[17:22:35] <Coren_> - For having a tasty brain to pick on
[17:22:35] <vividos> unfortunately I won't have much time today and tomorrow
[17:24:08] <vividos> what exactly means to "pick on"?
[17:24:37] <Coren_> Either annoy to death or eat by little pieces.
[17:24:46] <Coren_> Your choice. :)
[17:25:53] <Coren_> Idiomatically, picking on someone's brain means get valuable information out of it.
[17:25:59] <vividos> *g*
[17:26:26] <vividos> ok, trying low 0.3 anyways ... cygwin dll's are missing in the binary i586 packages
[17:26:51] <Coren_> They're in neither-- there is a .zip with the dlls on the LoW download page.
[17:27:01] <Coren_> No point in downloading them over and over since they never change. :)
[17:27:01] <vividos> ah right
[17:34:09] <vividos> very nice, also for the conv. interface
[17:36:17] <Coren_> Thanks.
[17:36:25] <Coren_> Although it's rather barebones right now.
[17:37:40] <vividos> the selected menu text could fade out slower IMHO
[17:38:34] * Coren_ tries to parse that.
[17:38:53] <Coren_> You mean, the menu option you select could stick around for a while and fade rather than have the entire menu replaced?
[17:38:56] <Eldron> .. still downloading..
[17:39:22] <Coren_> Or do you mean the text that currently fades could do with fading slower?
[17:39:38] <Coren_> Eldron: That media archive is a bitch, huh? :)
[17:40:16] <Eldron> indeed
[17:40:22] <Eldron> thank god I have adsl
[17:40:44] <Coren_> Eldron: I think the MP3 rendered music is worth it, though.
[17:41:36] <vividos> Coren: the selected answer I chose is printed on top of the screen, but fades out too quickly
[17:43:24] <vividos> btw, I decoded the uw2 conversations, but no new opcodes were used, as far as I can see
[17:43:34] <Coren_> No it's not. I plan on doing this eventually-- but the text that fades out is the text that was there /before/ you select an answer. :)
[17:43:59] <Coren_> vividos: Indeed not, that was a bug in my engine that trampled the stack. :)
[17:44:14] <Coren_> vividos: Since corrected. :)
[17:44:42] <Coren_> Now what I really need is to figure x_clock() out. That one bugs me no end.
[17:46:04] <vividos> you're right on the text, but my selected text isn't printed at all
[17:46:18] <Coren_> I know. That feature does not exist yet. :)
[17:46:56] <Coren_> Which is why I was so confused when you were talking about it. "How can he be reporting a bug on a feature I haven't yet written?"
[17:47:03] * Coren_ grins.
[17:52:18] <vividos> hehe
[17:52:29] <vividos> did you add something to your CVS copy of uw-formats.txt?
[17:54:06] <vividos> ah no, just diff'ed it
[17:56:58] * Eldron & combat.mp3 (128kbps/2.5min)
[17:57:04] <Eldron> hmm.. nostalgy
[17:57:23] * Eldron & theme.mp3 (128kbps/2.67min)
[17:58:31] <Eldron> what data files do I need from uw2?.. where do I put.. etc.. ?
[18:06:55] <Eldron> argh.. it died on me
[18:08:44] <-- Eldron has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[18:12:56] --- vividos is now known as vividos|away
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[18:17:17] <Eldron> low wont start for me <:(
[18:50:28] * Coren_ is back.
[18:50:41] <Coren_> Eldron: Ow. :( How does it fail?
[18:51:05] <Eldron> dunno.. it goes fullscreen, loads some, then it just dumps me back in windows.. leaving me in a low resolution :/
[18:51:17] <Coren_> vividos|away: No, I've been lazy about updating it to date.
[18:51:36] <Coren_> What's the last thing in 'log.txt'?
[18:51:52] <Eldron> granny: attempting to initialize from granny.dat
[18:52:09] <Coren_> Eldron: And, of course, you dowloaded the -i586- as directed if you have a non-Pentium4 CPU yes? ;)
[18:52:30] <Eldron> eeeh uuh, Im not sure.. <:)
[18:52:44] * Coren_ smirks.
[18:52:53] <Coren_> What is the length, in bytes, of your .exe?
[18:54:01] <Eldron> its 647kb
[18:54:07] <Eldron> 674 even
[18:54:19] <Coren_> in /bytes/ :)
[18:54:34] <Eldron> hmm I'll check the bytes..
[18:54:40] <Eldron> Im in windows you know..
[18:54:53] * Coren_ chuckles. ... Properties
[18:55:21] <Eldron> yeayea.. 690176
[18:55:51] <Coren_> low-i686-w32-0_3.zip
[18:55:55] <Coren_> Tsk, tsk.
[18:56:07] * Coren_ smiles.
[18:56:22] <Eldron> why the different binaries? :/ explain to one who does not know a thing
[18:56:27] <-- yot has left IRC ()
[18:56:29] <Coren_> You have a non Intel CPU. Thou must download anew.
[18:57:08] <Eldron> well, downloaded that now
[18:57:18] <Coren_> Like it says in the release notes which you have, of course, meticulously read, the -i686- binaries have been optimized for Pentium4, but work only on Intel CPUs. :)
[18:57:30] <Eldron> oh
[18:57:39] <Eldron> doh
[18:57:45] <Eldron> now my uw2 data files are messed
[18:57:53] <Coren_> Oh?
[18:57:59] <Coren_> That sounds unlikely.
[18:58:19] <Coren_> Did you edit your low.ini as it says in the readme.txt? (Which you have also read, of course) :)
[18:58:23] <Eldron> doh
[18:58:43] <Eldron> yes, I did.. but It was overwritten with the new stuff I downloaded..
[18:59:05] <Eldron> now... finally..
[18:59:07] <Coren_> Ah, yes. So that one's not entirely your fault.
[18:59:10] * Coren_ smirks.
[19:06:07] <Eldron> yay! its cool
[19:06:16] <Eldron> got stuck though :/
[19:06:30] <Coren_> Bleh.
[19:06:33] <Coren_> Where?
[19:07:19] <Eldron> the platform puzzle place, I fell down, came to the water place, went through that drainage pipe thing.. on the wall, came to another place, but I couldn't go through it again
[19:07:44] * Coren_ boggles.
[19:08:23] <Eldron> interface was nice though
[19:08:27] <Coren_> Tell me the string of hex digits in the lower tiny windows in the upper left corner of the screen when you look right at the drainage pipe you cannot go through. :)
[19:08:29] <Eldron> learnt everything rather fast..
[19:08:35] <Eldron> ok
[19:10:35] <Coren_> You can use 'map xx' on the console to move from level to level when passages do not yet lead in the right paces, that will have the side effect of unstucking :) you.
[19:12:23] <Coren_> Where 'xx' is one of 1-5, 9-18, 25, 26, 33, 34, 41-52, 57-59 65-69, 71 or 72.
[19:12:47] <Eldron> I'll try that.. anyway 13102 112C53F0
[19:13:49] <Coren_> Ok. Map bug. Noted.
[19:14:56] <Eldron> noticed the framerate is a bit low too :x
[19:15:10] <Eldron> around 20-25 for me at all time
[19:15:12] <Coren_> I'm being extremely evil with the 3d cards.
[19:15:23] <Coren_> But, by definition, you cannot get any higher than 25fps
[19:15:36] <Coren_> The whole game has a 40ms heartbeat. :-)
[19:16:15] <Eldron> oh
[19:16:23] <Eldron> iivil
[19:17:04] <Coren_> You also see much further than in UW2, though, which can be hard on the game in very open areas; you may want to try reducing the value of 'setup.video.sight' to 10, or even 8 (8 being UW2 value)
[19:17:54] <Coren_> Eventually I'm going to reduce LOD on distant surfaces and models; this should also ease things quite a bit.
[19:18:50] <Coren_> Right now, a wall that is 12 'tiles' away is drawn with just as many polygons as one that is right in front of your nose; quite a bit of wastage.
[19:19:27] * Coren_ wonders if you have recognized the subject matter of the painings. :)
[19:21:16] <Coren_> As for the framerate; I couldn't think of any valid reason why I should waste cycles redrawing the screen more often than 25fps if absolutely nothing in the world could possibly have changed just to artifically increase 'how many fps you can get'. :)
[19:22:14] <Eldron> what about camera movement?.. I love having a smooth mouselook matching my 100hz monitor :)
[19:22:49] <Coren_> That too could not change more than 25 times per second right now; the way the Avatar moves is constrained by the same rules as every other mobile.
[19:23:06] <Coren_> Though it could be argued that the exact pitch and heading should be more generous.
[19:23:45] <Coren_> I'll try to see if it's worth the added complexity; but I'd be surprised if you could get very much higher above 25fps anyways unless you have a REALLY kickass setup.
[19:24:20] <Eldron> or if low got really optimized :)
[19:24:29] <Coren_> That too. :)
[19:24:46] <Coren_> In fact, I'm sure there could be severe grounds for improvement.
[19:24:54] <Coren_> Right now, my biggest drain is the model deformations.
[19:25:19] <Eldron> I noticed there was no alpha blending on the sprites.. like in uwadv :/
[19:25:41] <Eldron> edges were aliased.. my poor eyes..
[19:25:44] <Coren_> And unless you happen to have a 3D card that does accelerated geometry some places will remain slow.
[19:26:03] <Coren_> Huh? There is blending.
[19:26:50] <Eldron> hmm
[19:26:58] <Eldron> not for me :/
[19:27:25] <Eldron> I mean.. its just a "1-bit opacy" on the sprites..
[19:27:37] <Coren_> But bleding those huge pixels has limited usefulness. Regardless of how smooth it ends up, a huge colored square is always going to look like a huge colored square, at best with fuzzy edges. :)
[19:27:59] <Eldron> but it looks real good in uwadv :)
[19:28:34] <Eldron> and its cheaper than antialiasing
[19:28:37] <Coren_> We don't have the same definition of 'real good'. :-)
[19:28:52] <Coren_> *I* think it just looks fuzzy. :-)
[19:28:55] <Eldron> Im an artist, I hate aliasing :)
[19:29:10] <Coren_> But that's moot anyways; none of the sprites will remain in the long term.
[19:29:57] <Eldron> oh well.. I'll go play some natural selection now..
[19:30:00] <Coren_> If you see a sprite is LoW it just meants 'look, we don't have a model for it right now so you'll have to live with this cardboard cutout in the meantime'. :-)
[19:30:27] <Eldron> yeah, until you can take the models from uwadv :)
[19:31:03] <Coren_> You should have seen my original mobiles. They were all stickmen holding a sign reading 'goblin' or 'spider' or 'human' and such. :-)
[19:31:20] <Eldron> lol..
[19:31:35] <Eldron> anyway.. --> ingame
[19:31:43] * Coren_ waves.
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[20:57:32] <wjp> hi
[21:06:05] <vividos|away> hi wjp
[21:06:13] --- vividos|away is now known as vividos
[21:59:26] <Eldron> back..
[22:27:49] <vividos> gtg, night!
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