#uwadv@irc.freenode.net logs for 27 Aug 2002 (GMT)

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[15:26:15] <wjp> hi
[15:27:44] <vividos> hi wjp
[15:28:16] <vividos> do you have working cvs access at the moment?
[15:28:19] * vividos not
[15:28:37] <wjp> no
[15:29:11] <wjp> did you already change the #ifdef _MSC_VER to #ifdef WIN32 in that mkdir, btw?
[15:31:16] <vividos> yes
[15:31:24] <vividos> but can't commit it :/
[15:32:34] <vividos> the ua_mkdir should also be fixed
[16:02:02] <vividos> do some tasks for the "big todo-list" come to your mind?
[16:03:31] <wjp> big todo list?
[16:05:25] <vividos> the one I'm currently writing :)
[16:05:53] <wjp> well... let's see...
[16:06:15] <wjp> proper walking (the slight up/down-movement), swimming, interaction
[16:06:29] <wjp> critters, combat, magic
[16:07:03] <vividos> interaction is a wide subject :)
[16:07:18] <wjp> I meant mostly object interaction
[16:07:31] <wjp> (i.e., picking up, dropping, throwing items)
[16:07:34] <vividos> ok
[16:07:46] <wjp> conversations, traps/triggers
[16:07:51] <wjp> monster AI
[16:08:41] <wjp> stealing (detection + handling) also goes with object interaction
[16:17:53] <wjp> oh, saving/loading
[16:18:06] <wjp> alternate (nearly) full-screen interface
[16:26:53] <wjp> CVS seems to be working again, btw
[16:28:53] <vividos> thanks!
[16:29:04] <vividos> the list is getting longer and longer :)
[16:47:42] --- vividos is now known as vividos|away
[17:02:25] <wjp> hehe, only one item with priority 1? :-)
[17:14:06] --- vividos|away is now known as vividos
[17:14:29] <vividos> priorities might not be quite right yet
[17:22:43] <vividos> already interested in one of the tasks?
[17:27:12] <wjp> my general area of interest is non-interface work
[17:27:55] <wjp> I'm not sure yet how much time I'm going to have available next semester, though, so I can't really say if I will be able to spend any significant amount of time on uwadv
[17:43:26] <vividos> it's fully ok
[17:49:46] <wookiee> No it's not!
[17:49:50] * wookiee grins
[17:50:08] <wjp> hehe :-)
[17:50:12] <wjp> hi wookiee
[17:50:14] <wookiee> hi
[17:51:00] <wookiee> I haven't even tried the engine yet... How complete is it? I have to dig out my UW disks one of these days...
[17:52:14] <wjp> it's mainly limited to walking around, currently
[17:52:28] <wjp> inventory management is also in
[17:53:00] <vividos> and a very large todo-list :)
[18:06:14] <vividos> have to go offline ( weather == thunder && lightning)
[18:06:24] <wjp> k, see you later
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[18:53:13] <wjp> hi
[18:54:25] <phlask> hi wjp
[18:55:07] <phlask> not much going on appearantly... I guess it is still a bit too early
[18:55:23] <wjp> vividos was here a bit earlier
[18:56:21] <phlask> right... I'll check the logs to see if I missed anything spectacular
[18:58:04] <phlask> well, I guess not :)
[19:12:31] <phlask> bbl
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[20:01:30] <phlask> wjp: how are your opengl skills?
[20:01:36] <wjp> non-existant
[20:02:15] <phlask> i see :)
[20:03:54] <wjp> not very helpful, I guess? :-)
[20:04:36] <wjp> non-existant is probably exaggerated (sp?) a bit, but I don't have any practical experience with it
[20:04:55] <wjp> picked up a few things here and there, but that's about it
[20:05:15] <phlask> well... I'm no expert either :) I just needed to know a specific thing, but I have already found it using good old Google
[20:12:01] <phlask> gtg again...
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[20:19:00] <vividos> re
[20:19:15] <wjp> wb
[20:20:22] <vividos> do you know a bit about wxWindows?
[20:20:41] <wjp> platform independent windowing toolkit, right?
[20:20:58] <vividos> I think so
[20:22:22] <vividos> I'm not sure, but I think I use it to write a debugger for uwadv
[20:26:23] * wjp nods
[20:26:25] <wjp> I saw it in the todo list
[20:26:28] <wjp> sounds like a cool idea :-)
[20:26:44] * wjp is doing the same thing for Exult's usecode interpreter, in fact
[20:26:51] <wjp> (but using GTK)
[20:33:26] <vividos> as far as I've seen, wxWindows uses the native ui elements when possible. there even might be a gtk package for it
[20:37:17] <wjp> I think there is, yes
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[20:46:18] <vividos> hi phlask
[20:46:25] <phlask> hi vividos
[20:46:39] <phlask> nice job on the todo list...
[20:47:15] <vividos> it's > 4k :)
[20:48:27] <phlask> yeah it is... :)
[20:48:45] <phlask> I just remembered that I was actually the one who volunteered to create the todo it... so sorry I haven't
[20:48:57] <vividos> never mind :)
[20:49:27] <vividos> I assigned the tasks we have spoken of to you
[20:49:56] <phlask> yes I noticed :)
[20:51:52] <phlask> well... the create character screen is now *really* done
[20:52:21] <wjp> really? :-)
[20:53:04] <phlask> yes, at least I think/hope so
[20:53:07] <vividos> cool!
[20:54:36] <phlask> The next thing I'll do is add the crosshair cursor to the start menu too and after that I'll start on the save/load screen
[20:55:29] <vividos> btw, I added the ua_savegames_manager in savegame.cpp/.hpp
[20:56:00] <phlask> nice job :)
[20:57:32] <phlask> remember what we talked about yesterday?
[20:57:54] <vividos> about what exactly?
[20:58:08] <vividos> savegame files naming scheme? :)
[20:58:30] <phlask> no... our conversation ended on the playername issue
[21:00:08] <vividos> I think everyone can load his savegames, independent what the current player's name is
[21:01:12] <phlask> yeah... I think I would have to agree... not because it is common-sense to do so, but because of the game design
[21:01:19] <vividos> yes
[21:02:04] <vividos> for the filenames ... I would propose something like %savegame-folder%/uasave%06u.uas
[21:02:13] <vividos> that would make searching for savegames easier
[21:02:24] <phlask> yes... that will work i think
[21:02:51] <phlask> the original savegames are a special case though
[21:02:55] <vividos> yes
[21:03:06] <phlask> I think we should just use a conversion
[21:03:12] <phlask> ingame and transparent that is
[21:03:16] <vividos> some "import" button?
[21:03:26] <phlask> no just automatically
[21:03:38] <vividos> or just add them to a list of savegames? maybe with a specially marked icon
[21:04:03] <phlask> well... I don't see any reason for that... you can't save to the old format anyhow
[21:04:34] <vividos> the icon or the whole idea?
[21:04:59] <phlask> the whole idea... the user probably doesn't care in which format his/her savegame is
[21:05:11] <phlask> as long as he/she can load it :)
[21:05:29] <vividos> I also thought about "scanning" for savegames (from the manager's point of view) and it would be easier if we just say that the savegames must be numbered consecutively
[21:06:10] <vividos> then we would have two functions for saving: one that can overwrite an existing slot, and one that creates a new one
[21:06:10] <phlask> I don't completely follow you there...
[21:06:17] <wjp> globbing isn't that hard
[21:06:38] <vividos> what is globbing? :)
[21:06:55] <vividos> findfirst/findnext?
[21:07:14] <phlask> the savegames don't have to have sequential numbers indeed as long as they are in the correct order
[21:07:18] * vividos hears that word from time to time but doesn't really know what it means
[21:07:34] <vividos> ok, then scratch that
[21:08:07] <vividos> the function to create a new one just searches for a file using the naming scheme that isn't existant
[21:08:38] <phlask> or just keep track of the highest number
[21:09:13] <vividos> hmm, the user could manually copy savegames into the folder ...
[21:09:22] <phlask> well... he shouldn't :)
[21:09:46] <phlask> well... I see your point
[21:10:32] <wjp> globbing is expanding wildcards, basically
[21:10:36] <phlask> a quick rename on shutdown or startup of the savegame files to get sequential numbers without gaps may be the best solution in that case
[21:10:37] <wjp> (in this context, anyway)
[21:11:29] <vividos> hmm, don't know if that is good ... some people search for their "lost" savegames then
[21:11:32] <wjp> I think that would be a bad idea
[21:11:56] <vividos> I think we can live with files that match the wildcard pattern, but leave them untouched
[21:11:59] <phlask> ok.. then use the number of miliseconds since 1980 (or some other date)
[21:12:14] <wjp> am I missing something?
[21:12:20] <wjp> why do you need that?
[21:12:23] <vividos> that would give too big numbers
[21:12:33] <phlask> that should give you a unique number in any case without having to keep track of the next number to use
[21:12:36] <wjp> either save in the first available opening or save at the end of the list
[21:12:40] <vividos> sequential numbers should be enough, I think
[21:13:43] <phlask> hex numbers aren't that big :)
[21:15:01] <vividos> bigger than ones with base 36 :)
[21:15:22] <phlask> yeah or a 100
[21:15:23] <wjp> or require case-sensitive filesystems and go for base 62 :-)
[21:15:45] <phlask> the problem with sequential numbers is that you can't copy an old savegame back to the savegames dir without overwriting an existing savegame (in most cases anyhow)...
[21:16:21] <phlask> I thought you just said a couple of minutes ago that you see this as a problem vividos?
[21:16:22] <vividos> but you could rename it without problems
[21:16:40] <wjp> I would just allow any numbering, and save new games in slot (highest number + 1)
[21:17:51] <phlask> who is going to implement this anyhow?
[21:17:57] * vividos probably :)
[21:18:07] <wjp> which part?
[21:18:14] <vividos> the ua_savegames_manager part
[21:18:18] <phlask> what we are discussing right here :)
[21:18:45] <wjp> if you need a platform independent file-list generator...
[21:18:55] <wjp> I happen to have one lying around here :-)
[21:19:44] <vividos> cool :)
[21:20:17] <phlask> well... whoever is going to implement this... just use your best judgement. The names of savegames aren't *that* important anyhow
[21:20:31] <wjp> files/listfiles.cc in you-know-where :-)
[21:21:07] <vividos> ok
[21:21:29] <vividos> will tackle that after that darn OpenGL selection mode
[21:21:54] <phlask> OpenGL selection mode?
[21:21:56] <wjp> hm, detecting what you clicked on?
[21:25:50] <vividos> yes
[21:27:30] <phlask> oh... have you "fixed" the player view center in the 3D view yet vividos?
[21:28:01] <vividos> not yet, but it's just a +0.5 (or something like that) somewhere
[21:29:30] <phlask> yeah it would be hard to believe if it would require a total rewrite of half the source :)
[21:31:58] <phlask> is Telemachos also working on physics btw?
[21:34:48] <vividos> yes, he does (fix) the collision detection
[21:35:44] <phlask> sorry I actually meant object & player physics (e.g. dropping object, falling, jumping etc.)
[21:36:29] <vividos> I hope I can implement dropping objects with the CD then
[21:36:45] <vividos> falling and jumping should work then
[21:36:53] <phlask> nice :)
[21:37:05] <phlask> hmm... about dropping items
[21:37:50] <phlask> what are we going to do with dropping items in water?
[21:38:19] <wjp> in the original items disappeared then, right?
[21:38:30] <phlask> yes... but this is (in my eyes) a bug
[21:38:47] <vividos> some disappeared, some not. I think it was a bug
[21:39:08] <vividos> disappearing items could be plot-stoppers
[21:39:17] <phlask> AFAIK all objects dissapeared in water
[21:39:27] <phlask> but not in lava
[21:39:33] <wjp> are there any places where objects are supposed to disappear?
[21:39:43] <vividos> no, don't think so
[21:39:47] <phlask> well... no
[21:39:54] <phlask> but... how are we going to handle that
[21:40:04] <vividos> I once tried dropping items into water, and some didn't disappear, e.g. the map
[21:40:04] <phlask> we can't just let object float on the water
[21:40:21] <vividos> together with a nice water implementation :)
[21:40:33] <vividos> we can't? why not?
[21:40:55] <phlask> well... have you ever seen heavy armor float?
[21:41:17] <phlask> I can think of numerous other items that most definitely will *not* float in real-life
[21:41:27] <vividos> hmm, ok
[21:41:41] <vividos> we could decide that on a per-item basis
[21:42:02] <phlask> we could implement water in 2 layers...
[21:42:53] <phlask> with the lopmost layer largely transparent so that you can see items underwater and pick them up
[21:43:12] <phlask> that wouldn't be easy to implement though
[21:43:27] <vividos> it would be possible
[21:46:22] <phlask> in any case... it isn't really a priority at this stage
[21:46:59] <vividos> yes
[21:49:34] <phlask> well, I'm gone for the night... I won't be much online this week until friday... so till then!
[21:50:10] <wjp> bye phlask
[21:50:20] <vividos> bye phlask!
[21:50:28] <phlask> bye
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[22:12:20] <vividos> playing around with the renderer actually is fun
[22:32:48] <vividos> d'oh! found my problem with the whole selection stuff!
[22:34:22] <wjp> what was wrong?
[22:35:32] <vividos> I didn't use the real window coordinates but the ones that are mapped to the range 0..320 and 0..200
[22:35:39] <vividos> (the original resolution)
[22:36:24] <wjp> oops :-)
[22:45:22] <vividos> just for the notice: picking tutorial: http://www.lighthouse3d.com/opengl/picking/index.php3?openglway
[23:15:46] <vividos> nice site, they even have a "billboarding" tutorial
[23:20:10] <vividos> which is exactly the next thing I need :)
[23:20:30] <wjp> hm, what's billboarding?
[23:20:51] <vividos> Billboarding is a technique that adjusts an object's orientation so that it "faces" some target, usually the camera.
[23:21:12] <vividos> the 2d sprites in uwadv must be drawn with this technique
[23:21:39] <wjp> hm, I see
[23:21:46] <vividos> I implemented it once, but it doesn't look quite good