#uwadv@irc.freenode.net logs for 28 Aug 2002 (GMT)

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Underworld Adventures homepage

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[00:56:23] <blizzard> anyone here awake ?
[00:56:28] <wjp> barely, but yes :-)
[00:56:31] <blizzard> heh
[00:56:54] <blizzard> will the port of UW ever play Underworld 2 ?
[00:57:18] <blizzard> I know that its still really alpha but was just wondering
[00:57:21] <wjp> hopefully, yes
[00:57:37] <blizzard> sweet! :-) looks good so far from the uw_demo
[00:58:08] <blizzard> even in linux
[00:58:28] <wjp> yeah, it's running quite well in linux :-)
[00:59:19] <blizzard> I have UW2 but am forced to use dosemu but I'll be keeping an eye on the releases of uwadv thats for sure
[01:00:02] <blizzard> I guess I'll keep an eye on the bargin bins for UW1 now. I've not played that in.. umm a really long time
[01:01:12] <blizzard> just wanted to know about UW2 and say GG dev team :-)
[01:02:14] <blizzard> its nice to see some of the old games on my favorite OS when they were never intended to run there
[01:02:43] <wjp> yeah, lots of classics are being rewritten luckily :-)
[01:14:33] <wjp> hm, 3:15 is late enough for me... g'night :-)
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[01:15:31] <blizzard> heh 6 hrs ahead of me..
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[03:16:14] --- Topic for #uwadv is: Underworld Adventures: an Ultima Underworld Remake (http://uwadv.sourceforge.net)
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[03:19:27] --- Topic for #uwadv is: Underworld Adventures: an Ultima Underworld Remake (http://uwadv.sourceforge.net)
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[08:18:45] <CharlieG> uw 4 eva
[08:18:55] <CharlieG> most fun game i ever played
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[09:52:42] <Dominus> hi
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[10:04:01] <vividos> hi!
[10:04:20] <CharlieG> hi!
[10:04:21] <CharlieG> :P
[10:04:26] <Dominus> hi vivi
[10:05:00] <vividos> rather crowded in here :)
[10:05:30] <Dominus> and so talkative :-)
[10:05:42] <vividos> of course! :)
[10:07:47] <Dominus> does anyone know how to set up a ramdisk for pure dos and what the max size of this ram disk would be?
[10:08:13] <vividos> I think it's the max. size of your ram (ems?)
[10:08:46] <vividos> http://www3.sympatico.ca/rhwatson/dos7/
[10:08:51] <vividos> ramdrive.sys
[10:10:46] <Dominus> ah that is a helpfull page
[10:11:03] <vividos> it's for dos7, but most things apply to earlier versions, too
[10:11:55] <Dominus> I'm trying to set upa nice boot disk that enables me to run U8 and the two Crusader games in pure Dos and those three games only work with ram size < 128 MB
[10:13:00] <Dominus> max ramdrive size is 32 MB
[10:16:27] <vividos> 8mb should be enough for u8, I think (as far as I remember from the old days :)
[10:16:42] <vividos> Telemachos: I hope the mingw32 makefile does work for you again
[10:17:36] <Dominus> vividos: the problem is to limit my system Ram to 128 and without taking out the Ram itself the only way it to set up multiple ramdisks...
[10:18:03] <vividos> ah ok
[10:18:13] <vividos> how much ram do you have? 256?
[10:18:22] <Dominus> 512 :-)
[10:18:35] <vividos> whoops :)
[10:18:54] <vividos> at the bottom of the page there are mentioned some other ramdisk tools
[10:19:02] <Dominus> yeah, I saw
[10:19:38] <Telemachos> hi
[10:20:55] <Telemachos> yeah the Mingw makefile works .. but is there something I need to do settings-wise because uwadv doesnt run anymore
[10:21:07] <Telemachos> just crashes back to Msys
[10:21:43] <CharlieG> how's uw dev going?
[10:22:03] <vividos> I added a WITH_DEBUGGING variable that you maybe want to set to "yes" (also for the WITH_CONSOLE, I guess)
[10:22:33] <Telemachos> doh :) forget it.. it seems my paths has been changed ;)
[10:22:38] <vividos> Telemachos: second, update and check your uwadv.cfg. it most likely returns to dos when a path is set wrong
[10:23:18] <vividos> CharlieG: rather pretty, I would say. I'm stuck at a detail problem right now, but not to worry about
[10:23:50] <CharlieG> cool
[10:24:02] <vividos> Telemachos: is the console output shown in the MSYS window?
[10:24:07] <CharlieG> man i can't get over how good uw was for it's day
[10:24:31] <CharlieG> can't wait for an open source version
[10:25:02] <vividos> completely agree. now that I have to look at the very details of the game, it's even better
[10:25:06] <Telemachos> I forgot the cfg file was in the CVS... in my own project we keep a directory with "default" files but doesnt have the users own cfg files in the CVS =
[10:25:55] <CharlieG> i'm contemplating getting into sdl to do a railroad tycoon or transport tycoon type game
[10:26:11] <vividos> I usually have the "working" path in msvc set to the output/debug/ folder where another copy of the uwadv.cfg file is
[10:26:11] <CharlieG> those were the days... post half life the gaming world has sucked
[10:26:37] <Telemachos> with a few exceptions :)
[10:26:43] <vividos> CharlieG: good luck with this one!
[10:27:24] <vividos> Telemachos: any examples in mind?
[10:28:14] <Telemachos> I mostly play older games... but I enjoyed Deus Ex alot for example..
[10:28:23] <Telemachos> very well designed game IMHO
[10:28:30] <CharlieG> dunno i never got into deus ex
[10:28:43] <CharlieG> first level i ended up going around and killing everybody
[10:28:52] <vividos> didn't play that. I rather much enjoyed Diablo 2
[10:28:52] <CharlieG> and it took me ages to find everything
[10:29:46] <Telemachos> well, it *is* a shooter of course.. so focus is on combat... but there is also much conversation.. and stat building... its a kind of shooter/rpg hybrid
[10:30:07] <Telemachos> you can complete it without killing anyone or so I hear
[10:31:25] <CharlieG> you can
[10:31:33] <CharlieG> but it's not encouraged enough
[10:31:38] <CharlieG> not in the way it is in, say, thief
[10:31:48] <CharlieG> where killing somebody is pretty tough
[10:32:12] <CharlieG> and where guards, upon seeing a dead body, go searching for you
[10:32:18] <CharlieG> in deus ex you could just take them out 1 by 1
[10:32:29] <CharlieG> wasn't a challenge and was, in the end, pretty tedious
[10:32:41] <CharlieG> almost as tedious as finding stuff on that poorly designed first level.
[10:32:56] <Telemachos> he heh.. did you get past level 1 ever ?
[10:33:10] <CharlieG> i did
[10:33:16] <Telemachos> how far ?
[10:33:18] <CharlieG> but then i got bored and quit :P
[10:33:21] <CharlieG> not very
[10:33:37] <Telemachos> he .. well, of course its a matter of taste ;)
[10:33:43] <CharlieG> it was in the pirate game days when my friend would give me like 10 games which i'd cruise through until i was entertained.
[10:34:46] <Telemachos> vividos: how close to the original do you want the controls to feel ?
[10:35:18] <CharlieG> very close hopefully :) i loved the uw controls
[10:35:45] <Dominus> Telemachos, vividos: I vote for customizable controls via easy accessible file in the uwadv dir
[10:36:22] <Telemachos> yeah, I for one would also like an option to turn on mouse-look ;)
[10:36:37] <Dominus> I hate the keyboard movement of Uw.. but I like the mouse movement
[10:37:01] <CharlieG> the mouse movement was what i was referring to.
[10:37:30] <Dominus> *cough* joystick control? (it was implemented in the original AFAIK)
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[10:37:49] <Dominus> damn, his client bugged out agai...
[10:37:51] <Dominus> n
[10:38:20] <Telemachos> great..
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[10:39:11] <Dominus> wb
[10:39:21] <CharlieG> hmm it would be good to come up with some innovative new ways to wield weapons
[10:39:44] <Dominus> please read the log, we discussed control while your client made you absent
[10:39:44] <CharlieG> like using the mouse to swing a sword around as opposed to being limited to 3 different strikes
[10:39:49] <CharlieG> :)
[10:41:02] <Telemachos> nooo.. you're talking die by the sword controls ;) he heh
[10:42:12] <vividos> Dominus: not my client bugged out :-) never try to end a process owned by msvc :)
[10:42:25] <Dominus> he he
[10:42:36] <vividos> for the original game controls: everything will be like the original, or as close as possible
[10:42:56] <vividos> there also will be a new ingame user interface that certainly has mouselook and all the new modern stuff
[10:43:03] <Dominus> will it be configurable?
[10:43:29] <vividos> the keys?
[10:43:43] <Dominus> every input method
[10:43:59] <vividos> I think so
[10:44:01] <Dominus> I'd very much prefer that
[10:44:26] <Telemachos> Im somewhat tempted to try and keep the CD in 2d after all :) he heh... for a number of reasons.. but leave the get-triangle code in .. might still try the 3d version
[10:44:28] <vividos> but don't know if it makes sense to configure what e.g. a doubleclick does :)
[10:44:54] <Telemachos> one reason - UW actually has some sort of rigid body physics... probably hacked because of the simple level geometry
[10:44:55] <Dominus> true
[10:45:04] <Dominus> (I meant vividos:true)
[10:45:08] <vividos> Telemachos: what do you mean with rigid?
[10:45:10] <Telemachos> would be kinda hard to implement in real 3d (maybe)
[10:45:55] <Telemachos> uhm.. rigid body physics.. that means hard, static objects responds correctly with the environment (can tumble around, bounce of walls etc)
[10:46:00] <vividos> I wanted to trace objects and check for collisions; for ingame objects a speed vector reflection could be done
[10:46:37] <vividos> the avatar is also traced and CD'ed, but only the direction vector is modified
[10:46:57] <Telemachos> for jumps and stuff ?
[10:46:59] <vividos> a real 3d CD would make it simple to implement walking over bridges and such
[10:47:23] <Telemachos> hmm.. yeah forgot those models.. they surely talks for 3d after all..
[10:47:25] <vividos> yeah, jumps actually are only vectors added to the direction vector over a time
[10:47:52] <Telemachos> but that way we'll probably not get the original feel... personally I would like a more modern response... but if you're going to match the original..
[10:48:23] <vividos> no, I think in that case we can enhance the whole physics stuff by using the 3d CD
[10:48:23] <CharlieG> nah don't match the original, better it
[10:48:57] <vividos> btw, have to go shopping now :)
[10:48:59] <CharlieG> the original, whilst amazing at the time, is horribly dated now... i played it a few months ago and it felt as though my character was wading thru mud
[10:49:01] <Telemachos> ok then, if matching the original feel isnt a goal then lets go for 3d
[10:49:11] <vividos> ok
[10:49:13] <CharlieG> vividos: you heard of ogre?
[10:49:32] <vividos> I didn't take an in-depth look yet
[10:49:32] <CharlieG> http://ogre.sourceforge.net/
[10:49:39] <Telemachos> Charlie - there are also some timer issues that makes movement perform poorly on fast machines ;) not entirely the UW teams fault
[10:50:01] <vividos> 'till then!
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[10:50:11] <Telemachos> especially in water and on ice... almost impossible to play on a fast machine ;)
[10:51:34] <Dominus> This is going to be fun setting up my "perfect" boot disk on CD with all the necessary stuff on the CD...
[11:04:45] <Dominus> funny, going through my backup CDs I found my working backup of my old Windows 3.11. I wonder what would happen if I put that on my CD drive....
[11:05:29] <CharlieG> i'm gonna report you to the nspcc
[11:05:38] <Dominus> pardon me?
[11:05:41] <CharlieG> the national society for prevention of cruelty to computers
[11:05:48] <Dominus> he he
[11:05:56] <CharlieG> putting win 3.11 in... sheesh... do you really hate your pc?
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[11:06:21] <vividos> re
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[11:06:46] <vividos> hehe :)
[11:07:43] <vividos> Telemachos: ice in uw1?
[11:13:24] <Telemachos> in uw2 :=
[11:14:21] <vividos> ah, wondered what those light blue fields on Arthuris' underworld maps were
[11:14:57] <Telemachos> never played uw2 ?
[11:17:48] <vividos> not really, didn't reach deeper than the first level
[11:20:58] * Dominus kicks himself because he did backups a while back (4 years agao) that can't be recovered anymore because he doesn't have the program anymore...
[11:21:40] <Telemachos> uw2 is quite good actually ;)
[11:21:51] <CharlieG> it was good but got very surreal
[11:22:01] <Dominus> IMO better than UW1
[11:22:07] <CharlieG> had to concentrate in parts to keep track of the story / surroundings
[11:22:23] <Telemachos> yeah, I like uw2 better too.. .better plot.. more levels ;)
[11:22:26] <CharlieG> dunno... i preferred the story in uw1
[11:22:44] <CharlieG> just uw1 needed the levels to be much larger
[11:23:04] <Dominus> after Uw2, uw1 seemed to me more just like a big dungeon crawl
[11:23:21] <Dominus> Uw2 had a much more interesting story and sidestories...
[11:23:28] <Telemachos> agreed.. but the best dungeon crawl I've ever tried ;)
[11:23:40] <Dominus> very true
[11:24:10] <Telemachos> the engine was quite amazing for its time.. I've always loved that engine ;)
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[11:38:29] <yot> hi
[11:38:34] <Dominus> hi
[11:47:38] <Telemachos> anyone knows anything about the terrain.dat file ?
[11:48:11] <vividos> yes, just look into docs/uw-formats.txt, chapter 8.3
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[11:49:44] <Telemachos> yes, but do you know why such a map is needed? It isnt used for rendering is it.. why flag a wall "stair up" with the terrain.dat file for example
[11:58:35] <Dominus> bbl
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[11:58:48] <CharlieG> when you compare the uw engine to wolfenstein... it was amazing.
[11:58:59] <yot> :]
[12:07:51] <CharlieG> the ultima 9 project looks pretty ambitions
[12:07:55] <CharlieG> ambitious even
[12:09:14] <CharlieG> http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~fountain/
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[12:27:15] <tm> hmm.. wierd.. how do you kick someone ?
[12:27:21] <tm> ack
[12:27:41] <tm> old user still hanging in here ;)
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[12:31:21] <tm2> vividos: can you kick Telemachos off ;) Dunno what IRC got going but I can't connect as Telemachos now ;)
[12:32:12] <vividos> got my instructions?
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[12:33:34] <CharlieG> tm2: nickserv is ur friend
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[12:33:42] <vividos> yes :)
[12:33:48] <Telemachos> aha
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[12:34:39] <vividos> welcome back :)
[12:34:40] <Telemachos> complicated ;)
[12:34:53] <vividos> but working :)
[12:35:31] <vividos> about that terrain.dat: don't know for sure what the terrain texture properties should be or do
[12:38:30] <Telemachos> can understand water for example (for physics) .. but the others I dont know... stairs up and down should be handled with the trap/trigger scheme
[12:38:45] <Telemachos> and lava - probably for taking damage.
[12:41:01] <vividos> yes
[12:46:13] <vividos> some files probably never get used in uwadv
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[13:09:27] <Dominus> hi again
[13:10:31] <yot> vividos: that's common in such projects
[13:13:13] <vividos> hi Dominus
[13:13:17] <vividos> yot: :)
[13:13:45] <Dominus> vividos, that alternative to ramdisk.sys works great
[13:15:21] <CharlieG> how come you need the uw demo or game to play your version?
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[13:28:05] <vividos> CharlieG: where else do the textures and map come from?
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[13:29:10] <CharlieG> vividos|away: um the community :P
[13:29:57] <CharlieG> you could make your own versions of the maps
[13:30:05] <CharlieG> :)
[13:30:48] <Dominik> but that is just the purpose of Uwadv to make the game play with the original data files
[13:31:10] <Dominik> remakes of Uw exist enough (that is are in the works)
[13:31:51] <Dominik> and are failing or will probably never be playable in more than one or two levels
[13:32:37] <CharlieG> ah k
[13:32:49] <CharlieG> you referring to twistsoft.co.uk?
[13:33:05] <Dominik> and the morrowwind or whatever remake
[13:33:37] <CharlieG> the morrowind based remake is amazingly ambitious it must be said.
[13:36:48] <Dominik> yes, and I see any of this projects actually have a working complete map sometime in the future but I doubt that they will have world interaction, NPCs and most importantly a Dialog engine
[13:50:43] <yot> hehe
[13:50:55] <yot> afaik over 95% of fangames never complete
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[14:12:11] <vividos> CharlieG: when uwadv is finished, you almost certainly can have custom games
[14:13:54] <CharlieG> :)
[14:14:01] * CharlieG is just dreaming
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[14:58:41] <vividos> Dominik: did you try that: http://members.iinet.net.au/~rsd/U8inWindows.html ?
[14:59:20] * Dominik coughs and points to exult's links page
[14:59:25] <Dominik> but thanks
[15:16:06] <vividos> does it work for you?
[15:16:16] <Dominik> btw, Colourless fixed my driver bug with fullscreen opengl apps
[15:28:22] <Dominik> hm, with an older build (22.08.) setting audio-enabled to false still initialises music...
[15:28:43] <Dominik> don't know if that works with newer
[15:28:47] <Dominik> will try later
[15:28:51] <Dominik> have to go now
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[19:04:45] <wjp> and hi ;-)
[19:05:33] <Dominus> he he
[19:05:33] <Dominus> hi
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