#uwadv@irc.freenode.net logs for 2 Oct 2002 (GMT)

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[11:14:54] --- Topic for #uwadv is: Underworld Adventures: an Ultima Underworld Remake (http://uwadv.sourceforge.net)
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[17:47:31] <vividos> http://screwage.com/~marc/: Another worthy project you might want to go take a look at is Underworld Adventures which seeks to recreate the first installement of that series and is doing
[17:47:31] <vividos> a darn good job of it.
[17:47:42] <vividos> :)
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[19:45:25] <Coren> :waves.
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[20:45:17] <vividos> hi Coren
[20:45:25] <Coren> Hello.
[20:45:27] * Coren waves.
[20:45:32] <vividos> :)
[20:45:50] <vividos> did you already try uwadv?
[20:45:56] * Coren nods.
[20:46:22] <Coren> Of course. I wouldn't have stated it being "worthy" unless it was in my not-nearly-humble opinion. :_)
[20:47:07] <Coren> Or am I mistakenly presuming you are Michael Fink?
[20:50:47] * Coren presumes he is correct since there is a low probability of there being many chanops named 'michael' here that are not him. :-)
[20:54:21] <vividos> no, that's right :)
[20:54:42] <Coren> I am actually annoyed that I had started rewriting the way objects are handled because outherwise I could have given you a much nicer version to play with than the one on the website.
[20:54:54] <Coren> It's going to take a day or two before it's usable now.
[20:55:36] <vividos> no need to hurry. next uwadv version also will be months away :)
[20:55:56] <Coren> I had working strings.pak support, which means that signs were readable among other things... and the doors floating high above where they should have been were gone.
[20:56:20] <vividos> are the door models the ones from the exe?
[20:56:29] <Coren> Nope; redid those.
[20:56:57] <vividos> ah ok
[20:57:12] <vividos> but they are placed where the real door object is located?
[20:57:41] <Coren> Yes-- I just hadn't noticed that 0x78-0x7F are open doors and that those have the Z set as though they were portcullises.
[20:58:03] <Coren> My level snarfing tool now knows about this and fixes appropriately.
[20:58:24] <vividos> do you know Alistair's level viewer/edit tool?
[20:58:44] <Coren> I know /of/ it, but never found a live web page with it.
[20:59:11] <Coren> Though by now, the whole thing is fairly moot since my level viewer/editor contains enough functionality.
[20:59:17] <vividos> current link is http://bearcity.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
[20:59:40] * Coren jots it down.
[20:59:48] <vividos> you already have a level editor? cool!
[21:01:19] <Coren> It's about as user friendly as emacs, mind you-- it's an ugly hack I put together so I could go and fiddle with levels before I really understood UW2's data formats.
[21:01:26] <vividos> hehe
[21:01:39] <Coren> I'd think its bits have rotten since, mind you.
[21:02:32] <Coren> I'm looking at your specs text file-- lots of goodies in there I hadn't figured out yet.
[21:02:53] <Coren> I think I can fill a couple of holes in it too. I'll have time for that in a couple of days.
[21:03:45] <vividos> of course uw2 formats are a bit different, but not *that* different (at least I think so)
[21:04:04] <Coren> Actually, there are very, very few differences.
[21:04:29] <vividos> good :)
[21:04:49] <Coren> I can safely say that >95% of what is in that file I know applies 1:1 with UW2
[21:05:37] <vividos> did you look at conversations yet?
[21:06:15] <Coren> Not much; but seeing from what I knew and what is in there I don't think I'll have much problem implementing them-- that looks like a simple forth vm to me.
[21:07:29] <Coren> I grok forth. I have earned a living for years writing in forth, and writing forths. :-)
[21:07:51] <Coren> Hell, I have an entry for the 2002 ioccc that happens to be a forth VM! :-)
[21:08:24] <vividos> hmm, is the conv.script really forth? or some sort of C-like language bytecode?
[21:08:34] <vividos> btw: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=1129269&forum_id=10460
[21:09:03] <Coren> Well, if it's C-like language bytecode, its intermediate representation is forth-like enough that it is indistinguishable from forth.
[21:10:49] <vividos> good to know! Jim and I already tried to write a disassembler that puts the bytecode into C-like source
[21:11:24] <Coren> Either of you know forth at all?
[21:12:48] <vividos> me not, maybe Jim
[21:13:08] <Coren> My to-do list reads "new entity implementation, conversations, mobile AI"
[21:13:26] <vividos> mobile AI?
[21:13:28] <Coren> If you want, I'd gladly share the conversation interpreter with you guys.
[21:13:42] <Coren> Mobile is my coinword for monsters/NPCs.
[21:13:51] <vividos> for the conversations, you could take a look at the uwadv-tools like cnvdbg and cnvdasm
[21:13:53] <vividos> ah ok
[21:14:18] <Coren> Well, have you implemented an interpreter for the code yet?
[21:15:03] <vividos> yes, apart from all the "imported functions" or "intrinsics"
[21:15:22] <Coren> I can have a working interpreter working in about 2-3 hours or work; I'll gladly share it with you guys under the presumption that only 'gobal' variables and 'external' functions need tweaking.
[21:15:35] <Coren> Ah, then you already do. :-)
[21:16:07] <Coren> Then why the need for a disassembler at at?
[21:16:16] <Coren> at all even
[21:16:26] <vividos> well, I did one, too, but it doesn't work too good
[21:17:01] <vividos> you're free to play with the "tools" to see how it works :)
[21:17:48] <Coren> I probably will, actually. While I don't plan to sourceforge my code until it has reached playable style, you are welcome to it if you want to see how I did things (on the provisio that until I publish it you are to keep it for yourself, of course)
[21:18:07] <vividos> of course!
[21:18:31] <Coren> Lemme check out a buildable tree from CVS and zip it up for you.
[21:19:05] <vividos> it's good to have one to talk about the same things :)
[21:19:33] <Coren> You work under linux or win32?
[21:19:53] <Coren> The tree builds for both, but I want to know if you want .zip or .tgz mostly. :-)
[21:20:28] <vividos> .zip is ok
[21:20:34] <vividos> I use win32, msvc
[21:20:38] <vividos> and mingw32
[21:21:17] <Coren> Ok, beware that my code presumes you use gcc for many things and is unlikely to build under win32 unless you use cygwin.
[21:21:29] <Coren> I build my win32 executable from linux by cross-compiling myself.
[21:22:02] <vividos> I'll look at it. I think I only use it to look at the code for now
[21:22:54] <Coren> It's agressively uncommented, and parts of it are ugly as hell, but it should be mostly understandable.
[21:23:24] <vividos> ok
[21:23:50] <vividos> do you know of the other uw2 remake project?
[21:25:10] * vividos just noticed you already sent a mail
[21:26:23] <Coren> It's on its way.
[21:26:34] <Coren> I haven't looked at it.
[21:27:13] <vividos> btw, if you have an updated uw-formats.txt, just send me the whole file, or else I'll have to dig for a win32 "patch" :)
[21:27:38] <Coren> Heh. Okay.
[21:28:03] <vividos> canadian law seems to be nice for remakes :)
[21:28:41] <Coren> It's barely sane in general; but you have to remember that here the RIAA and MPAA do not have their tentacles all over the political system, which helps.
[21:29:11] <vividos> :)
[21:29:14] <vividos> just got the source
[21:30:00] <Coren> Basically, I'm hiding under fair use. Like I said, the only way I could be sued here legally is if EA (who owns all that is left of the rights) could argue they are loosing revenue to what I'm doing.
[21:30:50] <vividos> like LucasArts argued, AFAIR
[21:30:58] <vividos> ok, have to go then, but I'm sure we meet again here
[21:31:19] <Coren> Never got to court I think-- they'd have a hard time proving they are loosing revenue.
[21:31:28] * Coren waves.
[21:31:34] <Coren> Talk to you again soon.
[21:31:43] <vividos> bye!
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