#uwadv@irc.freenode.net logs for 4 Sep 2002 (GMT)

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[09:14:35] <Telemachos> morning
[09:14:43] <Dominus> morning
[09:43:55] <Dominus> hm, I wonder if that seam thing you explained is the same problem we have with the experimental Exult and Pentagram OpenGL code...
[09:46:45] <Dominus> I'll point Colourless to your message
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[11:31:23] <yot> hi
[11:31:37] <Telemachos> hi there
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[14:51:58] <Dominus> hi
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[16:39:07] <Dominus> ahh, it'S wjp again!!!
[16:40:35] <wjp> I've been wondering for a while... why do you have a capital letter aften an apostrophe that often?
[16:40:42] <wjp> s/aften/after/
[16:41:04] <Dominus> because I'm to slow to release my shift key
[16:41:30] <wjp> hm, german keyboard?
[16:41:36] <Dominus> and I grew accoustomed to use the "shift-#"='
[16:41:50] <wjp> ah, you have #/`` on 1 key?
[16:41:55] <wjp> uh, #/'
[16:42:02] * wjp wonders what happened there
[16:43:23] * Dominus is on the phone
[17:00:27] <Dominus> back
[17:00:59] <Dominus> well, comparing the german keyboard with the standard us one I really don't understand a couple of things
[17:01:18] <Dominus> keymapping is a lot better on the us one
[17:01:35] <Dominus> legacy support, I guess :-)
[17:02:54] <Dominus> what you normally use on german keyboard is Žor`instead of ' but as you can see on old #exult logs this poses problems on some irc clients
[17:03:22] <Dominus> not to mention that those are really not supported by most programs which understand '...
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[17:27:09] <vividos> hi
[17:27:16] <Dominus> hi
[17:27:33] <wjp> hi
[17:28:10] <vividos> seems that we have our first faq :)
[17:28:19] <Dominus> ?
[17:29:11] <vividos> ok, I was asked only twice, but sometimes uwadv aborts with "uwadv: relocation error: uwadv: undefined symbol: Mix_ChannelFinished" which comes from a too old SDL_mixer lib
[17:29:34] <wjp> hm, did I ever update the spec file for that?
[17:31:31] <vividos> don't know
[17:31:43] <wjp> looks like I didn't
[17:32:32] <vividos> Dominus, what IRC client do you use?
[17:32:42] <Dominus> Trillian, why?
[17:32:51] <wjp> which version of SDL/SDL_mixer do we need?
[17:32:56] <wjp> 1.2.3? 1.2.4?
[17:33:04] <Dominus> 1.2.4
[17:33:12] <vividos> 1.2.3 for SDL, and don't know for SDL_mixer
[17:33:24] <Dominus> 1.2.4 for sdl_mixer, I guess
[17:33:42] <Dominus> There have been a lot changes between 1.2.4 and 1.2.4 AFAIK
[17:33:47] <wjp> :-)
[17:33:50] <wjp> really? ;-)
[17:33:51] <Dominus> oops
[17:33:58] <vividos> Dominus: ah, I think I already asked that one :) I'm in search for a nice and small irc client
[17:34:00] <Dominus> 1.2.3 and 1.2.4 :-)
[17:34:28] <Dominus> vividos: Trillian is nice and small and support icq, aim, yahoo, msn as well
[17:35:24] <Dominus> and for trillian I even have a small script for auto ops, ghost and so on...
[17:35:41] <vividos> ghost?
[17:35:51] <Dominus> nicserve ghost
[17:36:11] <Dominus> if you've been disconnected and want your nick back
[17:36:27] <Dominus> how many mistakes can you do in a couple of sentences
[17:36:31] <Dominus> my spelling sucks
[17:36:52] <vividos> ah, recover and such
[17:37:03] <Dominus> exactly
[17:37:59] <vividos> I found xircon as a nice client, but it's still to large (1 MB)
[17:38:27] <Dominus> well, trillian is quite big in download and on the hd...
[17:38:59] <vividos> as mIRC is, too
[17:39:04] <Dominus> about 10 MB on the harddrive
[17:39:27] <wjp> most modern IRC clients are getting quite huge, yes
[17:39:55] <wjp> (while you should be able to write a reasonably functional one in about 100 lines of perl or something :-) )
[17:40:07] <Dominus> but remember it has icq, aim and other chat clients support as well
[17:40:09] <vividos> or some 100k of windows code
[17:40:44] <Dominus> and the benefit of having to run only one program is quite nice
[17:42:34] <vividos> I know, but I wanted to quickly jump in #uwadv at my parent's home and we only have a 56k modem there
[17:42:54] <Dominus> the download is 2,3 MB...
[17:43:02] <vividos> that's the point :)
[17:43:14] <Dominus> I know...
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[17:44:00] <Telemachos> evening..
[17:44:09] <wjp> hi
[17:44:38] <vividos> hi Telemachos
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[17:49:48] <Telemachos> anything new and cool happening ?
[17:50:00] <vividos> not yet :)
[17:50:09] <vividos> on your side?
[17:50:33] * vividos has some accidental CVS breakage in planning :)
[17:50:42] <Telemachos> havent done anything yet... wanted to see where this whole crystal engine discussion went before I did too much work ;)
[17:51:25] <vividos> ah ok
[17:55:17] <vividos> news on the u1:r project? how was the linux client accepted by the people?
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[18:06:16] <phlask> hi everyone
[18:06:22] <Dominus> hi
[18:06:27] <wjp> hi
[18:07:06] <vividos> hi phlask
[18:07:53] <phlask> so... what is happening today then?
[18:08:32] <Dominus> everyone asks that on entering :-)
[18:09:20] <phlask> yeah I know it is a cliche
[18:09:56] <phlask> I was actually waiting for the standard remark "nothing much" :)
[18:11:38] <vividos> hmm, does anyone know of slowdowns when using SDL_RWops instead of FILE* ?
[18:12:11] <phlask> no, sorry
[18:25:56] <Telemachos> I think people liked it ;) Maybe because there arent too many games for Linux people :)
[18:26:34] <phlask> hi Telemachos!
[18:30:59] <phlask> Tech 2.5 for Linux is nice and all... but when is Tech 3 due?
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[18:39:10] <vividos> have to go then. bye!
[18:40:23] <phlask> bye vividos
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[18:43:31] <phlask> is anyone awake?
[18:43:48] * Dominus is
[18:45:40] <phlask> for some reason our project isn't getting the attention it deserves in my opinion
[18:46:45] <Dominus> I think it has to do with not very extended information of the public that there is this project
[18:47:03] <Dominus> or people are getting annoyed by "yet another ultima remake"
[18:48:42] <phlask> That is probably the main reason indeed (the former).
[18:49:22] <phlask> I don't think that many people who like ulitma get annoyed by remakes of their favorite games
[18:49:57] <Dominus> I don't think so as well
[18:51:48] <phlask> I guess we're just overshadowed by the U1 Remake project
[18:52:00] <Dominus> he
[18:54:03] <phlask> Too bad we won't be replacing the engine and redoing all graphics... we might actually have come close to the graphic quality of U1R
[18:54:15] <phlask> oh well... maybe in another life
[18:54:51] <Dominus> I'm not sure if in my next life anyone will remember Uw...
[18:55:33] <phlask> who could ever forget a game like that :)
[18:55:43] <Dominus> :-)
[18:58:50] <phlask> But I'm sure that we can convince Telemachos of doing a UW1 remake with the U1R-engine after all once U1R is finished
[18:59:19] <Dominus> I think we can take his silence as a yes :-)
[18:59:52] <phlask> sure we can... until he reads this back that is
[19:00:45] <wjp> <phlask> for some reason our project isn't getting the attention it deserves in my opinion <-- more attention will come once uwadv becomes playable
[19:00:45] <phlask> But to be honest... I'd rather see an UW3 with that engine
[19:01:59] <phlask> wjp: yes... but this is kind of difficult to obtain if we can't find more developers
[19:02:58] <Dominus> I think from the moment you have it at some kind of playability make big announcements (especially in places ultima fans like to hang out)
[19:03:33] <Dominus> and then people will come...
[19:03:52] <phlask> true... I actually think we should shift our development priorities a bit
[19:05:01] <Dominus> maybe yes
[19:05:08] <phlask> Getting playability is a main concern and should have the highest priority from now on in my opinion
[19:05:16] <wjp> don't go too far to get attention :-)
[19:05:23] <wjp> enjoying ourselves is important too :-)
[19:05:29] <wjp> (and will result in higher quality in the end, IMHO)
[19:06:14] <Dominus> rushing out to get attention (even as it is intended to draw more potential developers) is normally ill advised
[19:06:43] <phlask> Of course, but I do feel like we are currently spending too much time talking about minute development details about things that hardly matter
[19:07:13] <phlask> at this stage at least
[19:11:00] <wjp> hm, dunno; ML/IRC traffic really isn't all that high
[19:14:42] <Telemachos> so, you've been talking behind my back haven't you he heh ;)
[19:14:52] <phlask> wjp: true... but that is no real problem
[19:16:11] <phlask> the problem in my opinion is that we should be talking about (and developing) the underworld game itself, and not worry about secondary stuff like startup screens, sound playback, savegames etc.
[19:16:48] <Telemachos> well, havent you been doing work on the conversation script ?
[19:17:07] <Telemachos> having npc's in and be able to talk to them would be a big thing..
[19:17:35] <phlask> yes indeed, along with picking up and using stuff
[19:18:21] <Telemachos> yeah... I played the first level of UW recently and noticed that there weren't really that many game elements involved
[19:18:21] <phlask> and basically everything else ingame-related
[19:18:54] <Telemachos> AI if fairly non-existant except for through dialog for example :=
[19:19:16] <phlask> I've understood that vividos wants to improved the AI big-time
[19:19:27] <Telemachos> how ?
[19:19:28] <phlask> I wouldn't mind that of course :)
[19:19:41] <Telemachos> just better combat AI ?
[19:20:39] <phlask> yes combat and the way they follow you when you run away. Improving conversations might be a good idea too
[19:21:15] <Telemachos> Hmm.. I think the dialogs should be left the way they are ;)
[19:21:31] <phlask> The most likely will :)
[19:21:45] <phlask> we are using the original UW conversation scripts after all
[19:23:52] <phlask> Telemachos: any chance we can use (some of) the 3D models from your U1 remake to replace the 2D sprites of UW?
[19:24:28] <Telemachos> no ;)
[19:24:40] <phlask> darn
[19:24:49] <Telemachos> but I think it would be an idea to have some build for the 3d models in UW
[19:25:01] <Telemachos> maybe I can get some made for those
[19:25:14] <phlask> that would be *really* great
[19:25:57] <Dominus> I second that!!!
[19:26:20] <Telemachos> I think you should watch out however... things will look quite strange if you suddenly have high poly models for characters and a few opther things... but 64x64 textures for walls..
[19:26:42] <Telemachos> might be a good idea to decide if this is a remake of the game or the engine ;)
[19:26:51] <phlask> new textures is number 2 on my little wish-list
[19:27:09] <phlask> well... I've already talked about this with vividos extensively
[19:27:49] <phlask> he agrees we should use 3D models if we can... he tried the 2D sprites and they look *really* ugly
[19:28:38] <Dominus> the best would be to have not perfect looking models but still a bit more like the uw style... :-)
[19:28:55] <Telemachos> for npcs ?
[19:29:04] <phlask> yeah
[19:29:51] <Telemachos> heh.. lemme try something.. gonne try and load level1 from UW up in the U1 engine and insert some 3d stuff and lights.. then I'll post a link :)
[19:30:04] <phlask> neat...
[19:30:37] * Dominus looks forward to this...
[19:31:55] * phlask thinks that Telemachos wants to tease us by showing something we can never have: UW with the U1R engine ;-)
[19:32:17] <Dominus> he he
[19:37:56] <phlask> I think that if indeed can get high-detail 3D models for all critters we should seriously consider a redefinition of the original goals set for the project
[19:38:24] <phlask> (paste "we" in there somewhere)
[19:40:29] <phlask> too bad vividos isn't in here to say "no" to that (if you read this back in the logs vividos: just kidding ;-)
[19:44:30] <Telemachos> hmm.. maybe it would work.. doesnt look as stupid as I thought..
[19:44:31] <Telemachos> http://www.peroxide.dk/secret/uw1test.jpg
[19:47:33] <Dominus> no it really looks quite good
[19:49:40] <phlask> "secret" eh :)
[19:50:14] <Telemachos> heh.. yeah who knows what else we hide there huh ? ;)
[19:50:26] <phlask> "fulluwremake.zip" ;-)
[19:50:35] <Dominus> he
[19:51:58] <Telemachos> he heh... wish that was true ;)
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[19:52:48] <Telemachos> no its more because an image is more than 1000 words sometimes .. and it helps keeping motivation up for everyone on the u1 team when we show pictures of the new stuff ;)
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[19:53:11] * phlask hates his ISP :(
[19:55:19] <phlask> So... Telemachos will you check if you can help us out with those 3D models now?
[19:56:27] <Telemachos> well, what I can check is if I can help with those 14 or so models in the original UW games.. Im gonna need those myself for my own viewer and those I wouldnt mind sharing with you guys ;)
[19:56:46] <Telemachos> I can say already that I cannot help with npcs or items.. too many of them...
[19:57:00] <phlask> that would be great!
[19:57:12] <Telemachos> you should look for a 3d artist dedicated to this project if you wanna make the critters too
[19:57:46] <phlask> yes, we were thinking of that... can you recommend any place to look for such a person?
[19:57:57] <Telemachos> maybe polycount ?
[19:58:28] <phlask> polycount?
[19:58:49] <Telemachos> its a 3d modeller site where people show off their work and discuss it with other artists..
[19:59:01] <Telemachos> usually halflife or quake3 models
[19:59:38] <phlask> nice
[19:59:43] <Telemachos> BUT ... and this is a big but so to speak... you'll also need an animator.. and those are HARD to find ;)
[20:00:36] <phlask> Maybe the U1R animators have got some spare time?
[20:00:43] <Telemachos> we dont have any ;)
[20:00:52] <Telemachos> thats why our guys walks so ugly ;)
[20:01:00] <phlask> hehe... I see
[20:01:27] <phlask> btw: which "14 models in the original" were you talking about a while back?
[20:01:56] <Telemachos> the shrine, barrel, rock, bridge and what have we... some picture frame and a bench.. a bed...
[20:02:11] <Telemachos> I think Jim lists about 15 or so.. those stored in the exe
[20:03:49] <phlask> oh right... the true 3D objects, I was a little confused - sorry for that
[20:17:28] <phlask> I'm gone for the night
[20:18:50] <Telemachos> yeah me too.. laters
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[20:18:54] <phlask> bye
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