#uwadv@irc.freenode.net logs for 7 Nov 2002 (GMT)

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Underworld Adventures homepage

[16:53:39] --> exultbot has joined #uwadv
[16:53:39] --- Topic for #uwadv is: Underworld Adventures: an Ultima Underworld Remake (http://uwadv.sourceforge.net)
[16:53:39] --- Topic for #uwadv set by wjp at Sat Oct 26 19:10:39 2002
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[17:33:47] <vividos> hi there
[17:34:32] <Coren_> Hey Michael!
[17:35:15] <Coren_> Fun: I've noticed that in the past 3 days or so there are a number of sites that spontaneously decided to point to LoW.
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[17:36:13] <wjp> hi
[17:36:41] <Coren_> You may want to take a peek at yesterday's publish, too. Lots of goodies in that one and vastly improved stability under win32
[17:36:50] * Coren_ waves to wjp.
[17:37:34] <Coren_> It would seem you were right on the money about SDL_mixer without knowing it: seems most of my woes were caused by, err, dubious locking in OpenAL.
[17:37:49] <vividos> hi wjp
[17:38:12] <vividos> dubious locking? what exactly happened?
[17:38:58] <Coren_> There are parts of OpenAL that are not reentrant, but it uses threads itself! So there are often cases when I would start playing a sample while OpenAL was otherwise busy and things would just quickly go downhill from there.
[17:39:31] <Coren_> Footsteps were a nasty way of making sure this would happen sooner or later no matter what.
[17:40:09] <Coren_> So I've switched to SDL_mixer.
[17:40:49] * vividos understands
[17:41:26] <Coren_> So, when's your next release? :-)
[17:41:34] * Coren_ pokes vividos.
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[17:43:59] <vividos> don't know exactly, there are some things left to do, but I don't have much time for it atm
[17:44:52] <Coren_> Pfah! Don't let insignificant distractions like work, food and sex life detract you from your real objective! :-)
[17:46:16] <vividos> and what about diploma thesis? :)
[17:46:32] <Coren_> Incidentally, please dispose of the source I've sent you the other day in the nearest convinient incinerator. It's now MUCH cleaner and nicer since most of the really cruddy parts have been rewritten/cleaned up and I would just die of shame if anyone saw my previous pile of hacks. :-)
[17:46:49] <vividos> hehe
[17:46:59] <vividos> didn't look at it yet
[17:47:13] <Coren_> You mean you haven't weasled your thesis counselor into making uwa your thesis? :-)
[17:47:33] <vividos> no :)
[17:47:54] <vividos> but probably would have been a good idea
[17:47:56] <Coren_> Though that presumes you aren't working on something like a biology degree. That would make it a bit more difficult. :-)
[17:48:33] <vividos> no, it's electrical engineering
[17:49:10] <Coren_> Oooo. An EE geek.
[17:49:14] <vividos> heh :)
[17:49:43] <vividos> well, did you already look at npc conversations for your remake?
[17:50:26] <Coren_> Actually no; I'm working on object manipulation right now (inventory, containers, etc)
[17:50:48] <vividos> how do you handle inventory display?
[17:51:21] <Coren_> I'm using gumps with 'slots'. Take a look on my main homepage, there is a screenshot with a container gump.
[17:51:52] <vividos> ah cool, new screenshot
[17:52:10] <Coren_> Actually, I've replaced all put one of them with more recent versions
[17:53:01] <vividos> do you open a new container gump or replace the visible one when you open a sub-container?
[17:53:17] <Coren_> I open a new one; makes moving objects from place to place simpler.
[17:53:25] <vividos> yeah
[17:53:42] <vividos> I also thought about that approach for our planned new interface
[17:54:38] <Coren_> Another good thing is that players are likely to feel in familiar teritory with this general approach; it's intuitive and many other games use a similar concept.
[17:54:49] <vividos> the group shot is nice, but the columns are not shown, or at least not how they should look :)
[17:55:03] <vividos> yes, u7, u8, etc.
[17:55:13] * Coren_ nods.
[17:55:32] <Coren_> I don't have a column model right now, so I'm using a standin sprite. :-)
[17:56:03] <vividos> I'll try to use the original ones for that
[17:56:30] <vividos> about that treasure chest ... where does the thin black line come from?
[17:56:58] <Coren_> Those /are/ the original sprites for a column. :-)
[17:57:25] <Coren_> (I use the original sprites everywhere I don't have a model. Take a look at the ethereal screenshot, look at the start of the red path)
[17:57:32] <vividos> I know, but they aren't used ingame
[17:58:33] <Coren_> The black line is a bug having to do with texture wrapping. It's actually a blend with the bottom of the gump.
[17:58:53] <vividos> I have similar problems with my 2d user interface textures :)
[17:59:39] <Coren_> Hey, I think I just figured it out too
[18:00:07] <vividos> use GL_CLAMP for the wrapping?
[18:00:19] <Coren_> I was under the impression that the clamping mode was tied to texture objects, but rereading the GL specs just now seems to say it isn't, so you have to reset it whenever you bind a new texture.
[18:00:35] <vividos> yes, I made the same mistake :)
[18:00:39] <Coren_> I already do, but I say GL_CLAMP when I define the texture object instead of before using it.
[18:00:40] <Coren_> :-)
[18:01:01] <Coren_> That should fix that.
[18:01:43] <Coren_> Btw, the little stray pixels around the moongate are particles; it just looks silly on a still picture.
[18:02:20] <-- yot has left IRC ()
[18:02:50] <Coren_> Waterfalls look really cool with the particle water splashing, now. What was the last release you saw?
[18:09:23] <vividos> sorry, was away a bit
[18:09:54] <Coren_> So I guessed. :-)
[18:09:57] <vividos> the last release was ... uum ... don't know :) I download the latest some time :)
[18:10:14] * Coren_ chuckles.
[18:10:23] <Coren_> If you have a minute the current one is well worth it. :-)
[18:10:39] <Coren_> Hm. GL_CLAMP doesn't fix. I guess I'll have to actually do texture edges.
[18:11:37] <vividos> I fixed some black lines with adding a border but without rendering it
[18:11:49] <Coren_> This would, actually, be a better fix all around, and more general. The texture memory cost shouldn't be too high.
[18:12:20] <Coren_> That's what texture edges do; you make a border that lives 'outside' the texture that GL can blend against.
[18:12:40] <Coren_> Has the advantage of not using space in the texture proper.
[18:16:01] <Coren_> When you get a chance ot take a look at the latest version, hit F12 twice to see what lanters do in my engine. :-)
[18:16:10] <vividos> but the border only has one color, or?
[18:16:33] <Coren_> No, it's actually four one pixel wide images you specify.
[18:16:40] <Coren_> One for each edge.
[18:17:18] <Coren_> Never used that feature yet, just know of it. I'm actually coding it right now see if that does the trick.
[18:19:40] <Coren_> Do you bother with mipmapping in your engine? I haven't yet and I'm really wondering if it would be useful at all given that the depth of vision is never that high.
[18:21:39] <vividos> that may be true. some textures are mipmapped, but don't know which (it's a boolean parameter in the "upload" function only)
[18:21:57] <vividos> and I had problems using mipmapped textures and alpha blending together
[18:22:49] <vividos> (the alpha blending just didn't work)
[18:22:50] <Coren_> Oooo. Actually you /can/ specify a single color to use as border! No texture memory cost.
[18:23:26] <vividos> not an (e.g.) 64x1 border image?
[18:23:34] <Coren_> Hmmm. Your textures have to be _RGBA for blending to work with mipmapped versions.
[18:23:42] <vividos> they are
[18:23:52] <Coren_> You can do both the image thing, or a solid color.
[18:23:59] <vividos> very good
[18:24:27] <vividos> that simplifies things greatly
[18:24:29] <Coren_> glTexParameterfv(GL_TEXTURE_2D, GL_TEXTURE_BORDER_COLOR, (float*)color)
[18:24:36] <Coren_> I'm going to try this now.
[18:31:12] <Coren_> LOL
[18:31:18] <Coren_> Actually, there is a much simpler way.
[18:31:31] <Coren_> GL_CLAMP_TO_EDGE does the trick. :-)
[18:31:43] <vividos> heh :)
[18:32:01] <vividos> what is with textures that are not of size 2^n x 2^m ?
[18:32:49] <Coren_> Well, I'd just repeat the relevant rows of texels in the map to acheive the same effect.
[18:33:13] <vividos> hmm, could not find GL_CLAMP_TO_EDGE in the help
[18:33:31] <Coren_> It's GL 1.1
[18:33:44] <Coren_> But even most 1.0 implementations have it.
[18:34:03] <Coren_> Win32 specifies 1.2 implementations; and all Linux boxen I've seen have 1.3.
[18:34:14] <vividos> and since texture objects are in 1.1 (I guess), it should be ok
[18:34:27] <Coren_> Oh, you're right, texture objects are also in 1.1
[18:34:28] <Coren_> :-)
[18:35:53] <Coren_> Oh, cool, that allows me to fix some of the textures which are meant to seam together too
[18:36:05] <Coren_> (the pentagram, the big guardian face, the very large banners)
[18:37:14] <vividos> hey, it works! :)
[18:37:33] <Coren_> All together now. "Yeay!"
[18:38:52] <vividos> Yeay! :)
[18:39:19] <vividos> seems the next release of uwadv is sooner than I thought :)
[18:39:32] * Coren_ smiles.
[18:39:46] <Coren_> That was a bug you wanted to get rid of before you pushed?
[18:41:13] <vividos> yes
[18:41:20] <QQtis> greetings
[18:41:30] <QQtis> bica yeshor'click
[18:41:33] <QQtis> :)
[18:41:33] <Coren_> I don't get why most of the people who do rewrites/remakes tend to be so secretive.
[18:41:37] <QQtis> or whatever it was
[18:41:39] <vividos> hi QQtis
[18:41:55] <Coren_> *obviously* everyone gains when information is shared.
[18:42:06] <Coren_> Hello QQtis
[18:42:11] <Coren_> Whoever you are. :-)
[18:42:27] <QQtis> I'm a demon, so watch out :P
[18:42:29] <vividos> he's our digital music track master :)
[18:42:46] <QQtis> heh...
[18:42:57] <QQtis> lately I've been recording sleazy blues
[18:43:01] <vividos> Coren: well, some projects are well hidden, but once you search deeper for remake projects, you know most of them
[18:43:12] <vividos> QQtis: what's that?
[18:43:17] <QQtis> but can't do much work w/ midi on the laptop
[18:43:24] <QQtis> hm...
[18:43:36] <QQtis> just some J.J.Cale covers
[18:43:52] <QQtis> 2 guitars and vocals on a multitracker
[18:44:17] <Coren_> vividos: Well both stygianabyss.com and happypenguin.org have noticed me in the past three days for no reason I can discern. Presumably your link on your main page caused that.
[18:44:31] <vividos> http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=59858
[18:44:35] <vividos> may be :)
[18:44:48] <vividos> happypenguin.org added me, too, out of nowhere
[18:45:30] <Coren_> vividos: Err, yes, that might be I guess. Though that wasn't my first announcement and the others were not seen it seems.
[18:45:49] <vividos> but once you've listed on http://www.retrogames.com/ you can't count page hits anymore :)
[18:46:40] <Coren_> I don't think I'm there.
[18:46:45] * Coren_ goes to check.
[18:48:12] <vividos> http://www.geocities.com/cottlec/ (direct link to the morrowind uw1 remake)
[18:48:51] <Coren_> I don't much care for morrowind actually.
[18:49:37] <vividos> I don't know the game
[18:49:43] <Coren_> I can't seem to find a section on rewrite of old PC games on retrogames. Where is that?
[18:49:53] <vividos> but almost every underworld remake is at least interesting for me
[18:50:51] <vividos> well, a "uwadv released new version" link appears in the news block short after the official release and it only lasts for some days then
[18:51:37] <Coren_> I had actually started an UW2 remake for DS of all games. It was actually sort of fun, but I had to stop because there was no tool to make new nodes then.
[18:57:25] <Coren_> So? So? Have you tried the Nov 6 publish yet? Have you? Have you? Do you actually think I'll stop bugging you until you do? :-)
[18:59:23] <vividos> no, no, no and yes :)
[18:59:59] <Coren_> Hmm, okay, you're right but that's just because I'm not a generally annoying person in general. But nothing prevents you from pretending that I am! :-)
[19:00:21] <vividos> heh :)
[19:01:23] <vividos> just started the download
[19:02:10] <QQtis> vividos - stop plaing games and make a uwadv release already :PPPP
[19:03:09] <Coren_> QQtis: Hey, I just made that release possible sooner than expected. He gets to go and see mine if he wants to! :-)
[19:03:23] <vividos> QQtis: I don't play any games :)
[19:03:39] <Coren_> Okay, I made it possible by accident while fixing one of my /own/ bugs. But it happened anyways. :-)
[19:06:38] <QQtis> cool
[19:08:17] <vividos> I'm already working on the thin black lines :)
[19:08:25] <QQtis> oh damn
[19:08:30] <QQtis> I forgot to make screenshots
[19:08:41] <vividos> wait a bit
[19:08:56] <vividos> I'll fix most stuff what I find, then you could look at it again
[19:10:10] <QQtis> I've kinda grown to like the moon gravity thing
[19:10:18] <QQtis> perhaps we should keep it for a while
[19:10:32] <QQtis> now you can get to almost every place on the level
[19:12:05] <vividos> yes. don't know if Telemachos finds time to fix it before release
[19:17:12] <Coren_> Think I should sourceforge my game now rather than wait? I'm affraid my ugly code could reflect poorly on me though.
[19:17:51] <Coren_> I hope sourceforge can let me import an existing cvs tree; I wouldn't want to loose my revision history.
[19:21:37] <vividos> yes, that should work
[19:24:52] <vividos> do you use the name "low" and "Labyrinth of Worlds"?
[19:39:38] <Coren_> Use them where? The proper name is "Labyrinth of Worlds", and LoW is the canonical abbreviation.
[19:40:11] <Coren_> I've just requested the project to be opened.
[19:40:16] <Coren_> (On sourceforge)
[19:40:26] <Coren_> Might as well open it up sooner rather than later.
[19:40:32] <vividos> cool
[19:46:25] <Coren_> Yeay. With judicious use of GL_CLAMP_TO_EDGE I've fixed all my texture stitching woes!
[19:46:41] <vividos> good to hear :)
[19:47:07] <Coren_> This is especially cool for the large 4-texture pentagram; the visible stitches really sucked.
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[21:19:21] <vividos> sorry
[21:20:16] <vividos> of course we could share models, no question
[21:20:51] <vividos> wjp: I added keymap.cfg to the files that are installed, I hope this works (my last commit mail)
[21:21:02] <wjp> didn't I already do that?
[21:21:13] <wjp> oh no, that was just to the make dist
[21:21:28] <vividos> forgot to mention that file
[21:21:31] <vividos> yesterday
[21:21:54] <vividos> I'm not sure about that ../uadata/uw1/keymap.cfg
[21:22:15] <wjp> probably better to install it from the uadata/Makefile.am
[21:22:42] <vividos> ok
[21:22:58] <vividos> after all the file is just a template for the user-based one
[21:24:42] <vividos> should I do the change?
[21:24:50] <wjp> I've already changed it
[21:24:58] <wjp> I'll just do a quick test and then commit it
[21:25:30] <vividos> ok
[21:25:50] <vividos> I think we could release next week then
[21:27:45] <wjp> oh, right, tools still don't build
[21:27:48] * wjp reconfigures :-)
[21:29:49] <wjp> does it actually read keymap.cfg if it's installed into the data directory?
[21:29:56] <wjp> if not, it would be very confusing to have it there
[21:30:17] <vividos> no, it's not used
[21:30:24] <vividos> but we should store it somewhere
[21:30:45] <vividos> doc folder?
[21:30:52] * wjp nods; works for me
[21:31:08] <wjp> if you're building from source you have it anyway, so I guess only in the .rpm would be ok
[21:31:16] <vividos> ok
[21:58:07] <vividos> heh, funny texture effect in current cvs
[22:03:50] <vividos> too late :)
[22:05:43] <wjp> why? it's not like I _have_ to do a cvs update ;-)
[22:13:16] <vividos> no, you don't have to, of course :)
[22:16:41] <vividos> ok, have to go then. bye!
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[23:58:09] <Fingolfin> wherever you turn, exultbot is already there, lol