#uwadv@irc.freenode.net logs for 7 Oct 2002 (GMT)

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[07:03:39] --> QQtis has joined #uwadv
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[18:04:53] --- Topic for #uwadv is: Underworld Adventures: an Ultima Underworld Remake (http://uwadv.sourceforge.net)
[18:04:53] --- Topic for #uwadv set by ChanServ at Mon Sep 9 07:36:33 2002
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[18:26:53] <vividos> hi all
[18:28:31] <vividos> SDL 1.2.5 is out
[18:29:55] <wjp> hi
[18:31:49] <vividos> QQtis: I'll reply to your mail
[18:55:06] <QQtis> hey vividos
[18:55:15] <QQtis> just got back from class
[18:55:20] <QQtis> so it sounds good?
[18:55:30] <QQtis> you can go ahead forward it to whoever you want
[18:56:06] <QQtis> I was gonna ask you about the digital recordings on stygianabyss.com
[18:56:25] <QQtis> because I can't seem to open wthe website, it gives me a 404
[18:57:03] <QQtis> your link seems to be working though
[19:02:46] <vividos> hmm, what's the link on stygianabyss?
[19:06:02] <QQtis> http://www.stygianabyss.com/uw
[19:06:07] <QQtis> there is a link to music
[19:06:10] <QQtis> but it's dead
[19:06:14] <QQtis> anyways
[19:06:31] <QQtis> I listened to Tom's rendition of the Intro music
[19:07:02] <QQtis> not to be humble or anything, but my rendition sounds more "wholesome", heheh
[19:07:29] <QQtis> but the reverb that his Roland synth generated is nice
[19:07:55] <QQtis> I could probably do that to my recording too
[19:08:02] <QQtis> I still need to to improve it some
[19:08:43] <vividos> I'm looking forward to hear it!
[19:09:18] <QQtis> gonna remove the marimba and string section unison in some cases, expand the tuba part
[19:09:19] <QQtis> did you hear the part where teh tube basically duplicate sthe tamborine?
[19:09:23] <QQtis> hm
[19:09:30] <QQtis> I mean - the timpani
[19:09:35] <QQtis> in teh part where there is only drums playing
[19:09:46] <QQtis> I think I should do that throughout the whole piece
[19:09:53] <QQtis> it needs more bass
[19:10:42] <vividos> btw, diablo2 has an awesome soundtrack: http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/mp3/
[19:11:01] <QQtis> oh yeah, I know... even diablo 1 was pretty amazing
[19:11:05] <QQtis> very atmospheric
[19:11:12] <vividos> on the drums and stuff: I listen to it again :)
[19:11:31] <QQtis> you know what would really help?
[19:11:39] <vividos> would be cool if uwadv had such a soundtrack, recorded by an orchestra and such
[19:11:41] <vividos> what?
[19:11:41] <QQtis> If someone could reccomend me a good MIDI sequencer....
[19:12:03] <QQtis> I worked on the intro with a really bad, old program
[19:12:44] <vividos> sorry, but I'm the wrong one to ask :) I once played with emagic logic in a course, but never did much more on that
[19:12:53] <QQtis> it did teh job, but very slowly, especially when duplicating parts and having to switch the target channel for every single note
[19:12:56] <vividos> maybe you could reach Tom Grandgent ...
[19:13:09] <QQtis> hm... perhaps
[19:13:20] <QQtis> about the orchestra....
[19:13:33] <vividos> do you have one in your pocket? :))
[19:13:41] <QQtis> then the game should be called UW Dream....
[19:13:44] <QQtis> :)))))
[19:13:45] <vividos> hehe
[19:14:16] <QQtis> when I was still in school, in 11th grade, I remember whooping up the notation for most of the parts
[19:14:33] <vividos> btw, some of the ultima 7 tracks could also be used in uwadv, they would suit pretty good IMHO
[19:14:48] <QQtis> the idea was there, but I never got around to asking our band director to try and hav ethe entire band play it
[19:15:07] <QQtis> yeah, but it is rather problematic...
[19:15:22] <QQtis> I downloaded the U7 ogg files yesterday form teh Exult site
[19:15:30] <QQtis> and I listened to them
[19:15:36] <vividos> they are flex'ed, aren't they?
[19:15:36] <QQtis> this is my conclusion:
[19:16:10] <QQtis> whereever you have lots of synth, bass, and wavy sfx stuff - they turned out awesome, like in a movie soundtrack
[19:16:24] <QQtis> however, wherever you have something like trumpets of orchestra parts - they sound rather hollow
[19:17:09] <QQtis> I think the key problem is that the arrangements originally done in the U7 midis were not very sophisticated
[19:17:21] <QQtis> I mean - compare them to the orchestration in U8
[19:17:28] <vividos> well, you are the expert :) I just thought about it when listening to Tom's U7 recordings
[19:17:37] <QQtis> hm...
[19:17:44] <vividos> U8's soundtrack was amazing, yes
[19:17:47] <QQtis> are those different form the ones in Exult?
[19:18:04] <QQtis> by the way - hwo is it that exult gets their digital music hosted by sourceforge?
[19:18:06] <vividos> I think so
[19:18:11] <QQtis> why couldn't we do that?
[19:18:31] <vividos> well, I'm not sure about the copyrights
[19:19:29] <vividos> of the original midi's of course. I don't know how the law is in US, I only know for germany (and not that much)
[19:19:40] <QQtis> you think Exult cleared a copyright deal with Origin??
[19:19:45] <QQtis> hm....
[19:19:50] <vividos> no, don't think that
[19:20:05] <QQtis> well you have UW midis lying around all over the internet
[19:20:42] <vividos> that's right
[19:20:48] <QQtis> and besides... at least of I do the digital tracks, what we will have is not even MIDI, or direct rendition of MIDI, but rather different arrangements of it
[19:21:20] <QQtis> ok, I'm going to listen to Tom's U7 tracks now
[19:21:24] <wjp> <QQtis> you think Exult cleared a copyright deal with Origin?? <-- no, we didn't
[19:21:51] <vividos> you're right. perhaps we should contact George Sanger or Dave Govett and ask ...
[19:22:55] <vividos> does anyone of you know how to easily write a resample routine to resample from 12048 Hz to 44100 Hz?
[19:23:10] <QQtis> hm...
[19:23:34] <QQtis> wouldn't it be easier to convert the wave in an editor?
[19:23:47] <QQtis> oh but we want to use the original VOC files
[19:23:48] <QQtis> grrr
[19:23:54] <vividos> probably, but yes :-)
[19:24:00] <QQtis> hm... no idea :)))
[19:24:07] <wjp> Fingolfin wrote a cubic interpolator for scummvm
[19:24:18] <vividos> hmm, cubic ...
[19:24:50] <QQtis> sounds fancy
[19:24:57] <QQtis> linear is no good?
[19:25:12] <vividos> no, that would give high frequency distortions
[19:25:27] <QQtis> alright, I listened to Tom's U7 things
[19:25:30] <QQtis> not bad
[19:25:42] <QQtis> but still - trumpet sounds blatantly fake :)
[19:26:25] <QQtis> I think UW is much better for potential symphonic renditions
[19:26:25] <QQtis> UW music, that is
[19:26:31] <QQtis> UW2 music, of course, is a whole different animal...
[19:26:51] <QQtis> but I don't think we need that any time soon
[19:26:56] <vividos> yes :)
[19:27:40] <QQtis> damn I want to work on this stuff right now
[19:27:51] <QQtis> and I left all of my midi software at home
[19:28:05] <vividos> where are you at the moment?
[19:28:13] <QQtis> college
[19:28:15] <QQtis> dormitory
[19:28:24] <QQtis> Studentenwohnheim :)
[19:28:35] <QQtis> with laptop
[19:28:43] <QQtis> as opposed to the p4 I have at home
[19:29:31] <vividos> it is Studentenwohnheim in english? *wonder*
[19:29:39] <vividos> ah no, ok :)
[19:29:42] <QQtis> nope :)
[19:29:54] <QQtis> you are from Germany, no?
[19:30:04] <vividos> yes
[19:30:25] <QQtis> good, I study the German language at the moment
[19:30:35] <QQtis> Russian also
[19:30:41] <vividos> :-)
[19:31:57] <QQtis> I was born in Lithuania / Litauen :)
[19:32:02] <QQtis> living in the US for 9 years now
[19:32:48] <vividos> aah :)
[19:33:16] <vividos> does Lithuanian people speak russian?
[19:34:34] <QQtis> nope
[19:34:36] <QQtis> :P
[19:34:50] <vividos> some local languag I guess then :)
[19:35:00] <QQtis> yeah
[19:35:32] <vividos> btw, I'm doing mingw32 packages to ease setup for uwadv compilation
[19:35:34] <vividos> s/languag/language
[19:36:05] <QQtis> hey, Germany and Lithuania have lots of common history, thanks for all those universities in Ospreussen...
[19:36:09] <QQtis> :)
[19:36:41] <QQtis> anyways
[19:36:56] <QQtis> enough EU rhetoric
[19:36:58] <QQtis> back to UW
[19:37:02] <vividos> ok :)
[19:37:22] <QQtis> I think I'm getting Cakewalks - a good midi sequencer, should make things easier
[19:37:40] <vividos> good!
[19:40:52] <vividos> wjp, where should I enable SDL unicode support? at the very start of the game?
[19:41:12] <wjp> that's one possibility
[19:41:26] <wjp> you can also only enable it when you need it
[19:41:53] <wjp> (i.e., when entering the savegame screen), and disable it again when leaving it
[19:41:54] <QQtis> why unicode?
[19:42:30] <wjp> SDL's unicode translation just means converting 'raw' keyboard events into 'real' characters
[19:43:04] <wjp> meaning shift-1 gets translated into '!' on US keyboards, and to whatever on non-US keyboards
[19:43:06] <wjp> things like that
[19:44:19] * vividos hmms
[19:45:49] --> monocle has joined #uwadv
[19:45:55] <monocle> hello
[19:46:02] <wjp> hi
[19:46:15] <monocle> oh wow!
[19:46:21] <monocle> and irc channel not comprised entirely of idlers!
[19:46:24] <monocle> er an
[19:46:35] <vividos> hi monocle
[19:46:37] <wjp> just a momentary lapse, sorry :-)
[19:46:40] * wjp goes back to idling ;-)
[19:46:45] <QQtis> :)))
[19:46:47] <monocle> okay, that s better
[19:46:50] <vividos> you joined at the right time :)
[19:47:08] <QQtis> yes, we were just about to discuss our plans for global domination
[19:47:18] <monocle> oh, i already have a plan for that
[19:47:21] <monocle> but speaking of plans
[19:47:22] * vividos shhh's
[19:47:49] <monocle> are there any plans for uwadv to have a non-GL renderer?
[19:47:56] <monocle> like if i wanted to run it on my zaurus?
[19:48:12] <wjp> I was wondering when this question was going to be asked :-)
[19:48:14] <vividos> no, unless someone writes one, but I don't want to do such a thing
[19:48:59] <monocle> okay
[19:49:24] <vividos> Jim from TSSHP did a software renderer for his project, but it seems that he finally went to OpenGL, too :)
[19:50:06] <vividos> sorry to say, but I also want to play uwadv on a handheld
[19:50:20] <monocle> i also get "couldn't read from music.mid" when i run it on my laptop
[19:50:28] <monocle> i've never tried to run it anywhere else
[19:50:29] <wjp> mesa is probably not an option, right?
[19:50:45] <wjp> (size, speed?)
[19:50:53] <monocle> for a pda likely not
[19:50:55] <QQtis> handheld?
[19:51:02] <vividos> it probably is too big
[19:51:20] <vividos> handheld == pocket pc, palm, etc.
[19:51:28] <monocle> hmm
[19:51:53] <monocle> however it might be possible to use dosemu's x86 emulation and run it on my zaurus
[19:51:59] <monocle> of course that would be slow
[19:52:30] <vividos> somewhere I read something about a handheld prototype that was capable of 3d graphics, but I didn't keep the link
[19:52:44] <monocle> 3d graphics in what sense?
[19:52:45] <monocle> i mean
[19:52:48] <vividos> well, it could work. how much memory does the Z have?
[19:53:10] <monocle> it usually has like 24 mb free for running programs
[19:53:15] <vividos> monocle: IIRC native 3d support
[19:53:29] <monocle> if you use a sd card or cf card you dont waste any of that storing data
[19:53:32] <vividos> 24 mb should be enough for the original uw1 to run
[19:53:41] <monocle> like i have two 128mb sd cards
[19:54:18] <monocle> anyway
[19:54:27] <monocle> back to my music issue
[19:54:32] <vividos> ok
[19:54:35] <monocle> i dont get any!
[19:54:58] <monocle> sdl_mixer appears to be configured just fine
[19:56:28] <monocle> but as i said, i get "couldn't read from music.mid"
[19:56:46] <vividos> in the stdout.txt?
[19:57:01] <monocle> in the stdout
[19:57:12] <monocle> i have linux on my laptop
[19:57:18] <vividos> ah ok
[19:58:22] <vividos> how recent is your uwadv, btw?
[19:58:56] <monocle> butterfinger
[19:59:16] <monocle> is some of that kind of thing fixed in cvs?
[19:59:26] <vividos> don't know yet
[19:59:43] <vividos> and it really says "music.mid" as the midi file?
[20:00:24] <monocle> it says audio: using midi driver "SDL_mixer midi driver for Underworld Adventures"
[20:00:26] <monocle> then
[20:00:36] <monocle> a few lines later
[20:00:52] <monocle> audio: playing back yadda yadd /path/to/uw/uw01.xmi
[20:01:15] <monocle> then Mix_LoadMUS("music.mid): Couldnt read from 'music.mid'
[20:01:25] <vividos> wjp, what midi driver is used on your machine? the same one?
[20:01:30] <monocle> and no my laptop isnt hooked up to a network right now so i can't cut and paste =P
[20:01:42] <monocle> i could try dinking with sdl targets
[20:02:40] <vividos> did you install the sound patches mentioned on http://www.libsdl.org/projects/SDL_mixer/ ?
[20:02:52] <vividos> could be that they are missing
[20:03:08] <monocle> playmus works
[20:03:40] <vividos> I'm not that expert on SDL_mixer + Linux, you know :)
[20:04:11] <monocle> me either!
[20:06:34] <vividos> QQtis, the mingw32 setup files are available, at http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=50987
[20:07:41] <vividos> well, the error message basically means that the file it wanted to load isn't at it's place
[20:07:41] <QQtis> thanx
[20:07:46] <wjp> init audio subsystem ... audio: using midi driver "SDL_mixer midi driver for Underworld Adventures"
[20:08:09] <vividos> QQtis: you only need "uwadv-mingw32-source-setup-1.zip" I think
[20:08:23] <vividos> wjp: ok
[20:08:25] <wjp> don't think I have any music, though
[20:08:26] <QQtis> what does it come with?
[20:08:36] <wjp> is there supposed to be music in the intro?
[20:08:52] <wjp> or the menu/splash screen?
[20:08:53] <vividos> QQtis: that are all the files needed for mingw32 compilation setup
[20:08:58] <QQtis> do i still need to d/l msys and sdl separately?
[20:09:07] <vividos> wjp: yes, the splash screen starts uw01.xmi
[20:09:34] <vividos> QQtis: you only need mingw-2.0 and msys now
[20:10:15] <wjp> hm, SDL_mixer must be looking for the patches in the wrong directory... *sigh*
[20:10:39] <monocle> it doesn't appear to be
[20:10:54] <monocle> strace doesn't show anything that looks like that
[20:10:57] <QQtis> so your package has all sdl stuff in it?
[20:11:29] <vividos> no, the error is in Mix_LoadMUS() (good to have SDL_mixer source handy :-)
[20:11:31] <wjp> monocle: on my system, I mean
[20:12:04] <vividos> that means, a fopen() or fread() on the file fails
[20:12:12] <vividos> QQtis: yes
[20:12:41] <monocle> where does it pick up music.mid anyway?
[20:12:46] <vividos> QQtis: as I saw that you had difficulties, I'd decided to do full packages
[20:13:00] <vividos> monocle: it should be in uw1's "sound" folder
[20:13:19] <vividos> and music.mid never gets loaded, it's one of the "uw??.xmi" files
[20:13:42] <monocle> i dont have a music.mid
[20:13:55] <vividos> me neither, and I don't know where that comes
[20:14:14] <vividos> did you modify the "uadata/uw1/audio/music.m3u" file?
[20:14:16] <QQtis> hm...
[20:14:16] <QQtis> that is strange
[20:14:51] <QQtis> ok, I have to go eat now
[20:15:01] <QQtis> I'll get back to the music in a few minutes
[20:15:15] <monocle> hmm
[20:15:22] <monocle> i dont seem to have that in my tree of it
[20:15:33] <monocle> maybe configure broke with my --prefix options
[20:15:39] <monocle> where does that go?
[20:16:17] <wjp> hm, I might have omitted music.m3u from the list of files that are installed
[20:16:31] <vividos> well, the stuff in the source "uadata" folder gets compiled and zipped up in a file "uadata01.uar"
[20:16:43] <vividos> wjp: that could be
[20:16:52] <wjp> I'm pretty sure, in fact :-)
[20:17:09] <wjp> it didn't really occur to me that an .m3u file should be installed :-)
[20:17:15] <vividos> but it should go into the .uar file
[20:17:15] <monocle> i have a uadata01.uar
[20:17:28] <wjp> into the uar? oh?
[20:17:34] <vividos> yes
[20:17:41] <wjp> ah, yes
[20:17:44] <wjp> it should be in there
[20:17:44] <vividos> monocle, try unzip -l uadata01.uar
[20:17:48] <wjp> 00
[20:17:55] <wjp> ?
[20:18:24] <vividos> 00 of course
[20:19:10] <vividos> (don't know if unzip -l is the right option, but the .uar file essentially is a zip file)
[20:19:16] <wjp> yes, -l is right
[20:19:27] <monocle> the zip seems to be missing the .lua files
[20:19:35] <wjp> those shouldn't be in there
[20:19:39] <monocle> okay
[20:19:40] <vividos> but the .lob files are in
[20:19:48] <wjp> just a bunch of .lob files, uwinit.txt, music.m3u and keymap.cfg
[20:20:05] <monocle> no keymap.cfg
[20:20:10] <vividos> yet :)
[20:20:13] <wjp> oh, right, older version :-)
[20:20:38] <vividos> if you want, I think it is safe to get current CVS
[20:20:49] <vividos> ... and try around with that
[20:23:16] <monocle> okey dokey
[20:24:54] <vividos> btw, mouse movement mode is done in the current CVS
[20:26:33] <vividos> strange, shift + 3 (the "") isn't mapped to a key ...
[20:27:02] <wjp> shift-3 is a '#', you know ;-)
[20:27:28] <vividos> not at my keyboard :)
[20:27:48] <vividos> s/at/on
[20:28:10] <monocle> autogen.sh doesn't seem to like my setup
[20:29:18] <vividos> do you have older versions of the autotools?
[20:30:32] <monocle> automake is 1.4p5
[20:31:01] <monocle> autoconf is 2.13
[20:31:06] <vividos> uwadv at least needs automake-1.5 (better 1.6.2)
[20:31:15] <vividos> autoconf-2.53 is needed at least, too
[20:31:22] <monocle> okay
[20:31:28] <monocle> my rh8 box at home can do that
[20:31:52] <wjp> what distro do you have here?
[20:32:02] <monocle> rh 7.3
[20:33:00] <wjp> that has the newer autotools too
[20:33:09] <wjp> but they're named automake-1.6 or something, and autoconf-2.53
[20:33:26] <monocle> ah
[20:33:37] <wjp> I used to put symlinks to the newer versions in my ~/bin dir
[20:33:51] <wjp> (which is before the older ones in my path)
[20:35:55] <monocle> okay
[20:37:53] <monocle> oh here we go
[20:38:09] <monocle> in the configure process itsis i dont have fmod, and that it's required for midi playback
[20:38:56] <wjp> hm, is that still true?
[20:40:05] <vividos> no, fmod isn't needed
[20:40:14] <vividos> we could take that out altogether
[20:40:23] <monocle> oh
[20:45:38] <monocle> oh
[20:45:39] <monocle> you might know this
[20:45:45] <monocle> it's something i was wondering a long time ago
[20:45:54] <monocle> what's the mostr powerful weapon i nthe game?
[20:46:02] <monocle> and armor, whatever too?
[20:48:23] <vividos> well, apart from the enchantments that can be on items, I would guess the "jeweled sword" and the "breastplate", but that also may depend on your stats and skills
[20:48:40] <wjp> black sword, maybe?
[20:48:42] <monocle> i mean with the enchantments
[20:48:53] <monocle> like the "Axe of Major Damage" or something from level 7
[20:49:23] <wjp> Battle axe of Very Great Damage?
[20:49:24] <monocle> The Sling of Really Really Really high Accuracy!
[20:49:36] <vividos> well, we didn't find one yet, but Jim found out some stuff about enchantments
[20:49:51] <wjp> Black sword of Great Accuracy?
[20:50:05] <wjp> Jeweled sword of Unsurpassed Damage? <-- that one probably wins wrt damage
[20:50:13] <monocle> where's that one?
[20:51:11] <wjp> level 8
[20:51:24] <monocle> is there some map you're looking at?
[20:51:31] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/ultima/uw1/level8.html
[20:51:47] <monocle> wow, that's well done
[20:51:53] <wjp> thanks :-)
[20:51:54] <monocle> i love it when people do things like that
[20:52:00] <vividos> wjp: is it ok to add a link to your old page on the "about us" page?
[20:52:18] <wjp> vividos: sure, now that I finally updated it to be somewhat presentable :-)
[20:52:26] <vividos> monocle: the walkthrough of sir cabirus is also nice
[20:52:26] <wjp> make it http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/ultima/
[20:52:33] <vividos> wjp: hehe
[20:52:35] <monocle> i think i see why it has unsurpassed damage
[20:52:43] <monocle> it's in a lake of boiling lava!
[20:53:54] <vividos> sanct flam = resist fire
[20:54:11] <monocle> there's also the leather cap of unsurpassed toughness!
[20:54:24] <monocle> yeah i know, i did manage to finish the game after 10 years of trying =P
[20:54:29] <wjp> yes, but doesn't toughness just mean it's hard to damage the item?
[20:54:37] <monocle> i dunno
[20:55:07] <wjp> breastplate of tremendous protection might win
[20:55:23] <vividos> wjp: where's the nice frame around the page? :)
[20:55:38] <wjp> frame?
[20:55:57] <vividos> on the old page there was a nav frame on the left side
[20:56:17] <wjp> I got rid of it :-)
[20:56:24] <vividos> I found it useful :)
[20:56:34] <vividos> but ok :)
[20:56:53] <wjp> all of the things that are still left on the page were all in one nav. section anyway
[20:57:11] <wjp> I might consider a tiny navbar at the top or something
[20:57:52] <wjp> but I don't really feel like spending much more time on it... getting everything to be proper html 4.01 was enough work already :-)
[20:58:00] <vividos> hehe
[20:58:12] <wjp> (although I might consider converting all of it to xhtml 1.0 just to get some experience with it)
[21:02:10] <monocle> oh i get it
[21:02:14] <monocle> the bridges are 3d objects
[21:02:32] <monocle> hmm, are bridges destroyable?
[21:02:58] <wjp> no, don't think so
[21:02:59] <vividos> no, I don't think
[21:03:06] <vividos> boulders are destroyable
[21:03:12] <monocle> i knew that
[21:03:31] <vividos> and doors can be broken
[21:03:42] <monocle> except the massive ones
[21:04:07] <monocle> gosh these maps make the game seem so much smaller
[21:04:25] <vividos> it would be interesting if the "destroyability" is controlled by door type or by the type of lock it has
[21:05:17] <monocle> what's new in the cvs version?
[21:05:43] <vividos> a lot :)
[21:05:48] <monocle> like what?
[21:06:17] <vividos> if you want all the details, read the "dev log" on the uwadv home page
[21:06:37] <QQtis> hey guys...
[21:06:48] <QQtis> have you figured anything out about the 3d objects?
[21:06:54] <QQtis> like bridges and benches?
[21:07:12] <vividos> basically there are engine-related changes; mouse movement also works now, as well as loading/saving games
[21:07:35] <vividos> QQtis: I wanted to do 3d objects after the 2d sprites (which is my current task to do)
[21:08:54] <monocle> are doors always 3d objects or only when they're opening?
[21:09:13] <vividos> always 3d
[21:09:20] <QQtis> but you have 2d sprites for non-mobile objects
[21:09:31] <QQtis> you mean you wnat to do mobile sprites first?
[21:09:32] <vividos> yes, now come the critters and NPCs
[21:11:37] <monocle> i liked the way the rats looked better in uw1 than uw2
[21:11:51] <QQtis> yeah - less toy-like
[21:11:55] <monocle> i never really got into uw2
[21:12:25] <QQtis> but according to vividos, it seems that we will eventually eb converting all the critters into 3d models
[21:12:54] <monocle> i hope thats only an option =P
[21:13:05] <monocle> have you seen some of the doom ports with that?
[21:13:11] <monocle> it doesn't feel very doom-y
[21:13:17] <monocle> the imps aren't as scary
[21:13:39] <vividos> yes, it can be switched off, but no one did any models yet
[21:13:48] <QQtis> :))
[21:14:33] <monocle> although improvments to the uw control scheme would be nice
[21:14:38] <QQtis> oh yes, we will have 3d models and 256x256 32bit textures and music recorded played by a live orchestra...
[21:14:39] <QQtis> the uwDream release :)
[21:14:50] <vividos> :-))
[21:15:07] <QQtis> yeah, that would be nice
[21:15:16] <monocle> bumped map bricks would be nice
[21:15:18] <QQtis> vividos - what are your current thoughts on alternate control models?
[21:15:23] <monocle> or bump mapped
[21:15:29] <monocle> whatever the real way is
[21:15:48] <vividos> well, we could definitely do that neural brain connection interface
[21:15:57] <monocle> too system shocky
[21:16:17] <vividos> what exactly do you mean with alternate control models?
[21:16:22] <vividos> mouselook?
[21:16:40] <QQtis> no
[21:16:45] <monocle> i want to jump around with a sling and frag gray goblins like it's dm!
[21:17:25] <QQtis> I mean, I've lately really gotten used to the control mechanism in Medal of Honor or DeusEx
[21:17:46] <vividos> monocle: hehe :)
[21:18:09] <QQtis> like, couldn't there be an option to use mouse as a direction aiming device, while keys as movement
[21:18:10] <QQtis> ?
[21:18:44] <vividos> yes, that's about how I planned to do it
[21:19:10] <monocle> of course then you need a key to drop to the inventory interface
[21:19:19] <monocle> since you cant drag the mouse over there without getting dizzy
[21:20:14] <QQtis> why not?
[21:20:31] <monocle> because you'll keep turning?
[21:20:33] <QQtis> we coudl just do it so that a right mouse click would take you out of the navigation mode
[21:20:44] <monocle> that would work
[21:20:58] <QQtis> click once and youre flying, click another time and you have a cursor again
[21:21:12] <monocle> oh yeah
[21:21:19] <monocle> anything is better than uw's fly system =P
[21:21:30] <QQtis> I just wich I oculd remember how that stuff worke din the original
[21:21:33] <vividos> what's wrong with the fly system?
[21:21:58] <monocle> it's broken on fast machines
[21:22:00] <monocle> even with moslo
[21:22:15] <QQtis> I remember being able to slash my weapon and move at the same time
[21:22:15] <QQtis> but which keys did what... I can't remember for teh life of me
[21:22:31] <monocle> i think ; was slash
[21:22:32] <vividos> there is a uw1-keyboard.txt in the docs folder
[21:23:05] <monocle> when i was last playing through uw, on my 1.2ghz althon it was impossible to fly up
[21:23:23] <monocle> i had to keep moving my save over to an old machine (which lacked sound), completeing that part and moving it back
[21:24:55] <monocle> very weird
[21:25:54] <QQtis> hey vividos
[21:26:00] <QQtis> which version of msys should I download
[21:26:11] <QQtis> I'm on my other PC now, so I have to redo everything basically
[21:28:03] <vividos> the last one, 1.0.7
[21:28:39] <vividos> (I had to do a trick to get it to run because the environment memory was too small)
[21:31:37] <monocle> haev any of you had any really really weird uw oddities?
[21:31:48] <monocle> like once i picked up "damage"
[21:32:05] <monocle> which was one of the sparks that show up when you hit things
[21:32:29] <QQtis> hahah
[21:32:33] <monocle> if i remember right it totally messed up my inventory too
[21:32:42] <vividos> :-)
[21:33:02] <QQtis> ever had a lizardman in your bag?
[21:33:03] <QQtis> :)
[21:33:06] <monocle> no
[21:33:08] <monocle> not that
[21:34:04] <vividos> someone on the TTLG boards mentioned that there's a lizardman on one level, in the volcano's pit in the middle of the map
[21:34:33] <monocle> weird
[21:35:43] <monocle> crap, one of my nails broke
[21:35:49] <monocle> oh well i'm heading home from work
[21:36:47] <-- monocle has left IRC ("bbl")
[21:38:00] <QQtis> hahah could be
[21:38:14] <QQtis> you mean when you look through one of those grate windows?
[21:39:21] <vividos> hmm, no, the one on the board mentioned a cheat how to get through the walls, but somehow it's rather unlikely
[21:40:23] * vividos finished rewriting the "about us" and the "#uwadv channel" pages on the uwadv home page
[21:41:17] <wjp> my first name is Willem Jan, btw. (don't ask :-) )
[21:41:37] <vividos> ok (I always wondered if Jan is part of it)
[21:42:36] <QQtis> what languages has uw been released in?
[21:43:41] <QQtis> what the fuck....
[21:44:09] <vividos> I only know of an english version
[21:44:14] <QQtis> msys install just told me "Oh joy, you do not have the c:/mingw/bin/make.exe Keep it that way..."
[21:44:17] <QQtis> ?????
[21:44:37] <wjp> sounds like a good thing
[21:44:56] <QQtis> how can not having a make.exe be a good thing?
[21:45:08] <wjp> mingw.org: # * make-3.79.1-20010722 (make.exe renamed as mingw32-make.exe)
[21:45:18] <wjp> you did read that page, didn't you? ;-)
[21:45:26] <vividos> make.exe should be around somwhere, thoug
[21:45:36] <vividos> s/thoug/though
[21:46:09] <vividos> make.exe is in c:/mingw/msys/bin
[21:46:33] <vividos> ah, I understand :)
[21:46:59] <vividos> the mingw32-make maybe doesn't work under MSYS
[21:48:25] <QQtis> ah
[21:48:27] <QQtis> hm...
[21:48:34] <QQtis> msys looks really weird in winxp
[21:48:42] <QQtis> huge spaces between characters
[21:49:39] <vividos> I also did a new news post, but I don't know if I got a proper heading for that on
[21:49:42] <vividos> one
[21:55:17] <QQtis> any plans for a new release?
[21:55:45] <vividos> not in the near future
[22:00:02] <QQtis> what's in teh new CVS?
[22:00:13] <QQtis> can I make my mp3 play in the game? ;)
[22:01:04] <vividos> unfortunately not
[22:01:36] <vividos> I can't play a 44100 Hz mp3 and a 12048 Hz speech file using the same audio device :(
[22:02:20] <QQtis> hm...
[22:02:30] <QQtis> sucks
[22:02:33] <vividos> yes
[22:03:00] <QQtis> does it just sound weird or does it crash?
[22:03:08] <vividos> somehow I have to resample the speech to another samplerate
[22:03:21] <vividos> it sounds like played too fast
[22:03:37] <wjp> probably because it actually is played too fast ;-)
[22:03:44] <QQtis> treachery and doom....
[22:03:44] <QQtis> :)
[22:03:47] <QQtis> by the way
[22:04:06] <QQtis> whose website was it that I saw UW conversations in German?
[22:04:13] <QQtis> I'm sure I saw that somewhere in a screenshot
[22:04:21] <vividos> my site :) in the screenshots
[22:04:26] <QQtis> right....
[22:04:37] <QQtis> so there have been other language versions of it?
[22:04:48] <QQtis> or was that just your personal remake?
[22:04:51] <vividos> no :) I only translated half of one conversation
[22:04:57] <QQtis> oh, hahah
[22:04:58] <vividos> to showcase that it works
[22:05:07] <QQtis> so it is possible to do this
[22:05:28] <vividos> yes, but the umlauts are missing in the uw1 font
[22:05:33] <QQtis> but the font sets only have simple english alphabet, no diacritics, right?
[22:05:37] <QQtis> hm...
[22:05:44] <QQtis> we could fix this, couldn't we?
[22:06:00] <vividos> not for the original
[22:06:23] <vividos> in uwadv we could paste some special chars together
[22:06:59] <QQtis> or, in case of providing a foreign language pack, we could include new font files
[22:07:10] <QQtis> I mean, you would have to redo all the strings
[22:07:59] <QQtis> oh, wait... how about the cases... den, die...? :)))
[22:08:06] <QQtis> with in-game objects
[22:08:20] <QQtis> might be problematic, really
[22:08:54] <vividos> could be
[22:11:14] <wjp> there's a project to translate all of Ultima 7 part 2 to french, btw, using Exult :-)
[22:11:52] <vividos> yeah, I saw it
[22:12:51] <vividos> maybe they're interested in translating uw, too :)
[22:14:48] <QQtis> :)
[22:15:24] <QQtis> I have Cakewalk running
[22:15:36] <QQtis> gonna try to mess around with some of the other midi files
[22:15:47] <vividos> good :)
[22:15:52] <QQtis> although I can't run my awesome yamaha synth on the laptop :(
[22:16:05] <vividos> does Cakewalk import xmi's directly?
[22:16:17] <QQtis> so you won't be getting anything substantial from me until next weekend
[22:16:21] <QQtis> i don't think so
[22:16:29] <QQtis> I got mids from online
[22:17:19] <vividos> btw, if you want to encode to Ogg Vorbis, you could try winLAME: http://winlame.sourceforge.net/ from what I heard, it should be very good :-)
[22:19:47] <QQtis> that'w how I made that mp3
[22:19:54] <QQtis> I think I used lame
[22:20:01] <QQtis> but I have an ogg compressor too
[22:20:25] <QQtis> I just didn't use it because I didn't know what compression ratio you might want
[22:21:07] <QQtis> fuck
[22:21:10] <QQtis> I have a problem
[22:21:23] <vividos> Ogg Vorbis quality of 3.0 or 4.0 should be ok
[22:21:35] <QQtis> the midi files I got - they have all the instruments, all chennels on one midi track
[22:21:42] <QQtis> that's absolutely ridiculous
[22:21:53] <vividos> how about trying the .xmi files?
[22:21:58] <QQtis> hm...
[22:21:59] <vividos> hope they are supported
[22:22:44] <QQtis> no
[22:22:51] <QQtis> cakewalk doesn't support them
[22:23:14] <QQtis> hm....
[22:23:17] <vividos> hmm, you could try to xmi2mid tool in the butterfinger binary distribution
[22:23:28] <QQtis> ok
[22:23:36] <QQtis> let's see if we can do that
[22:37:02] --> monocle has joined #uwadv
[22:37:05] <monocle> hello
[22:38:03] <vividos> rehi monocle
[22:38:43] <monocle> hi
[22:38:52] <QQtis> ok dudes
[22:38:55] <QQtis> I gotta reboot
[22:39:04] <-- QQtis has left IRC ()
[22:39:06] <vividos> who does not :)
[22:51:06] --> QQtis has joined #uwadv
[22:56:30] <QQtis> vividos
[22:56:46] <QQtis> what's the address that I have to enter for CVS update?
[22:56:53] <QQtis> on tortoise
[22:57:59] <vividos> uuhm, to do a cvs update?
[22:58:19] <QQtis> to checkout
[22:58:35] <vividos> once you have checked out the source, the update shouldn't require the address
[22:59:02] <vividos> just click on the topmost folder with the project files and do "CVS Update"
[22:59:04] <QQtis> yeah, but what's the address for checkout?
[22:59:32] <QQtis> I'm on my other PC and newly installed tortoise doesn't have the setting
[22:59:33] <vividos> it's ":pserver:anonymous@cvs.uwadv.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/uwadv"
[22:59:42] <vividos> the module is "uwadv"
[22:59:43] <vividos> ah ok :)
[23:00:01] <vividos> you always can find the settings on "http://sourceforge.net/projects/uwadv/" under "CVS"
[23:00:25] <QQtis> alright
[23:00:26] <QQtis> its working
[23:04:14] <vividos> good :)
[23:09:53] <monocle> vividos: have you worked on any other projects?
[23:11:54] <vividos> yes
[23:12:07] <vividos> the first bigger one was http://winLAME.sourceforge.net
[23:14:24] <monocle> ah
[23:14:38] <monocle> never used that
[23:14:42] <monocle> i'm not much of a windows person
[23:16:24] <monocle> the most i've done was submit a patch to scummvm =P
[23:16:59] <vividos> :)
[23:18:21] <monocle> well, that, and being dragged into some friends' game projects which turn into nothing
[23:19:32] <vividos> that's the way most projects go, unfortunately
[23:19:43] <monocle> i've noticed
[23:20:33] <monocle> i would make little gimmicky scrolling images, they'd drool and get all these crazy ideas and never help me =P
[23:23:05] <vividos> :-))
[23:23:39] <monocle> and i'm not a very good programmer either, so that didn't help much
[23:23:47] <monocle> i also had to do some art too
[23:23:52] <monocle> and i'm a very bad artist
[23:25:20] <wjp> I should be going
[23:25:22] <wjp> g'night
[23:25:31] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz...")
[23:27:16] <monocle> so how long have you been programming?
[23:34:05] <vividos> today?
[23:36:12] <monocle> hehe
[23:36:16] <monocle> no not today
[23:36:39] <monocle> i mean since when
[23:58:45] <vividos> sorry for the delay
[23:59:20] <vividos> I guess I program since I got my first computer, a c64
[23:59:52] <vividos> or say I try to program :)