#uwadv@irc.freenode.net logs for 8 Jan 2003 (GMT)

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[00:32:18] --> Eldron has joined #uwadv
[00:33:04] <vividos> hi Eldron
[00:33:09] <Eldron> hey
[00:33:19] <Eldron> did you see my early gazer texture btw?
[00:35:03] <vividos> yes, and I find it great!
[00:35:14] <Eldron> good to hear :)
[00:36:30] <vividos> if we only had the possibility to save as non-blender files :)
[00:37:14] <Eldron> yea, I'll hopefully start working with other programs soon.. according to 3d classes.. maybe then I could be using 3dsmax instead..
[00:37:49] <vividos> well, I think blender has some potential, but we need to get the data out of it :)
[00:38:00] <Eldron> yea, which is a bit of a pain
[00:38:09] * vividos shrugs while thinking of learning Python and the inner workings of Blender3d
[00:51:01] <vividos> Heureka!
[00:51:14] <Eldron> wha?
[00:52:00] <vividos> found the connection of NPC and conversation image
[00:52:23] <Eldron> oh
[00:52:26] <vividos> normally only vip npc's had their own conversation image, but most of them just had generic ones
[00:53:50] <Eldron> I'll go back to the torment of wrapping a texture around a sphere.. X/
[00:54:24] <vividos> much luck!
[00:54:59] <vividos> sounds like to square pi :)
[00:55:08] <Eldron> heh
[00:55:49] <Eldron> I tried in some way to unwrap the sphere shape of the gazer on an image first, and draw the texture then.. but the sphere shape gives it problems.. stretched textures etc..
[00:56:01] <Eldron> so Im being rather careful
[00:56:55] <vividos> do you thing the gazer is the hardest model to do?
[00:57:07] <Eldron> hardest to texture, but very simple to model..
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[00:57:42] <Eldron> I think I'll do some npc next, should be easier
[00:57:49] <vividos> yeah, should be
[00:58:14] <Eldron> and If I'll do one human male I should have all human males done, they just vary in beard and color.. and such
[00:58:17] <vividos> how about animation for the gazer - is it hard to do, once the model is finished?
[00:58:33] <Eldron> animation wont be hard, I'll just give it bones and play around with it for a while..
[00:58:40] <vividos> cool
[01:00:30] <Eldron> what texture sizes are you thinking of using btw?
[01:01:25] <vividos> 256x256 would be the upper limit
[01:02:18] <Eldron> ok, I should be able to squeeze the texture inside that without loss of quality :)
[01:02:24] <vividos> :)
[01:02:29] <vividos> don't think we need to have more than one texture of that size for one model, or?
[01:04:03] <Eldron> depends on the model, the gazer is an exception, But with regular humans I can just make the texture symetric, and make only half the texture and mirror it on the other half of the model..
[01:05:14] <vividos> ok
[01:05:39] --> Servus has joined #uwadv
[01:06:12] <vividos> hi Servus!
[01:06:59] <vividos> Eldron: what bounding box does the gazer have? or can it be scaled to some size without loss?
[01:08:26] <Eldron> hmm, bounding box?..
[01:08:57] <vividos> or the extents
[01:09:20] <Eldron> the size of the model in a box area?
[01:09:24] <vividos> we of course can scale the model ingame before displaying it
[01:09:30] <vividos> yeah, sort of
[01:10:26] <Eldron> what loss would there be if one would scale the bounding box? :/
[01:11:53] <vividos> rounding errors and the like, but I don't think that can occur that easily
[01:14:19] <vividos> hmm, should go to bed then
[01:16:37] <Servus> hi vividos
[01:17:02] <vividos> hi Servus
[01:17:04] <Servus> boundig boxes are easily calculated
[01:17:12] <vividos> of course
[01:17:41] <vividos> I heard of your uw1 remake :)
[01:17:48] <vividos> did you finish it?
[01:18:02] <Servus> though you can always make anything more complicated -- in half-life, for instance, a single human has several different bounding boxes, describing different body parts... but these are described during pre-production, and not runtime
[01:18:11] <Servus> it ended up as more of a 3d map viewer;)
[01:18:37] <vividos> I also saw the image of a 3d u7 - very nice!
[01:18:52] <Servus> heh i uploaded that?
[01:18:58] <Servus> the one with 3d walls?
[01:19:20] <Servus> did you know that the ultima 7 map includes width, depth, and HEIGHT for every single object? you can make a perfect 3d rendition of any structure in the game :D
[01:19:24] <vividos> no walls, it was a "beach" part of the map
[01:19:36] <Servus> oh, that, yes thats the very beginning of serpent isle
[01:19:36] <vividos> if you had the textures :)
[01:19:47] <Servus> textures can be stolen from counterstrike, or i can draw em ;)
[01:19:51] <vividos> heh
[01:19:55] <Servus> hmm
[01:20:00] <Servus> let me show you a simple 3d building in U7
[01:20:03] <Servus> one sec
[01:20:31] <vividos> already took a look at uwadv?
[01:20:37] <Servus> the only backup copy i saved that has 3d buildings was real far from being compile-worthy, so i cant get the ground textures to work in the same version that has 3d walls X-(
[01:20:42] <Servus> yes and i sent an email even
[01:20:46] <Servus> (sam matthews)
[01:21:07] <vividos> ah that html thingie :)
[01:21:21] <Servus> html? sorry i had hotmails richtext editor on
[01:21:26] <vividos> no problem
[01:22:11] <vividos> so, interested to work on uwadv?
[01:22:18] <Servus> more interested in uw2
[01:22:22] <Servus> but i think you guys should work together
[01:22:29] <vividos> Coren and me?
[01:22:33] <Servus> the teams
[01:22:39] <Servus> they are the same game after all, really
[01:22:44] <vividos> yes
[01:23:02] <Servus> coren has many 3d models he pilfered from Ultima Online 3D
[01:23:12] <vividos> well, we share all informations on the games, as well as some manpower (wjp helped setting up autoconf/automake for low)
[01:23:14] <Servus> did you see the 3d avatar model i made, while carousing through my files?
[01:23:27] <vividos> was it NPC1.jpg?
[01:23:31] <Servus> npc8
[01:23:37] <Servus> those are work-in-progress shots
[01:23:42] <Servus> the last one is something i made with direct3d;)
[01:23:45] <vividos> could you quickly give the link to that folder again?
[01:23:53] <Servus> www.geocities.com/russell_figowitz/images
[01:23:56] <vividos> thanks
[01:24:28] <vividos> really nice!
[01:25:35] <vividos> if you are more interested in uw2, you could of course help Coren
[01:26:15] <vividos> but, as I wanted to do "one" engine for all two games, most things like models, game logic, etc. can be shared between the two
[01:27:09] <Servus> www.geocities.com/russell_figowitz/images/Brit.jpg
[01:27:11] <Servus> where is that? :)
[01:27:24] <vividos> throne room - already saw it, too :)
[01:27:33] * vividos reads #exult logs occasionally
[01:29:34] <Servus> i see
[01:29:45] <Servus> i completely scrapped my ultima 7 thing
[01:29:51] <Servus> i have one that works with ground textures well
[01:29:51] <vividos> why that?
[01:29:54] <Servus> and one that works with 3d walls
[01:29:56] <Servus> because i got sick of it :P
[01:30:06] <Servus> i realized what an insanely large project it was, and i got no support
[01:30:16] <vividos> it was not done using Qbasic, I guess :)
[01:30:34] <vividos> where did you expect your support?
[01:32:32] <Servus> C++
[01:32:37] <Servus> and Direct3d
[01:32:40] <Servus> i dunno
[01:32:49] <Servus> went to programming chatrooms and all i ever heard was "exult already did it"
[01:32:51] <Servus> though they didnt
[01:32:52] <Servus> shrugs
[01:33:14] <vividos> that's bad
[01:33:52] <Servus> ack these two versions -- the one with the 3d walls, and the one with textured ground, have completely different perspectives so i cant line it up and fake it
[01:34:01] <Servus> well you saw the textured ground, blah
[01:34:55] <Servus> ok got it
[01:35:23] <vividos> what did you get?
[01:35:55] <Servus> http://www.geocities.com/russell_figowitz/images/u7.jpg this
[01:36:22] <Servus> i used to have a picture of full textured ground and semi textured walls and everything all together, but i guess i didnt back it up
[01:36:49] <Servus> ive gotta go, girlfriends practically tugging my arm:(
[01:37:01] <vividos> heh :) 'till then!
[01:37:04] <vividos> should go, too
[01:37:06] <Servus> but you saw the pic just now?
[01:37:09] <vividos> (image looks cool)
[01:37:11] <vividos> yes :)
[01:37:35] <Servus> ty, if i get the gumption i might remake it to work all together, or find the old screenshot(think my bro has it)
[01:37:55] <vividos> would be interesting, yes
[01:38:14] <Servus> but, yeah... i have a screenshot of that building with textured ground and the walls(bright pink walls:)
[01:38:48] <vividos> :-)
[01:38:57] <Servus> so...yeah
[01:39:01] <Servus> are you the uwadv team leader?
[01:39:03] <vividos> yes
[01:39:10] <Servus> done any models yet?
[01:39:24] <vividos> no, I personally cannot model
[01:39:28] <Servus> you could probably steal most of what you need from ultima online:3d
[01:39:36] <Servus> like coren did
[01:39:38] <vividos> Eldron does the gazer, as you probably already know
[01:39:46] <Servus> ive never seen him speak
[01:39:52] <Eldron> heh
[01:39:54] <vividos> well, there are copyright issues with the models
[01:39:56] <Servus> the gazer looks suspiciously like ultima 9's though ;)
[01:40:15] <vividos> btw, there are logs for this channel
[01:40:16] <vividos> ?logs
[01:40:16] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/uwadvlog.php
[01:40:27] <Servus> does that meani can spam now?
[01:40:27] <Servus> ?help
[01:40:39] <vividos> spam the channel?
[01:40:52] <Servus> never mind
[01:40:55] <vividos> :)
[01:41:09] <Servus> are you guys really thinking of actually keeping the original UW maps??/
[01:41:15] <vividos> why not?
[01:41:24] <Servus> because they were designed for a 25mhz ;)
[01:41:41] <Servus> same map layout, just new stuff
[01:41:42] <vividos> I played it on a 66mhz and they were fun :)
[01:41:57] <Servus> ok let me make the entrance to UW1 reallll quick
[01:42:05] <vividos> we could put some new items in it or so
[01:43:18] <vividos> and I planned to have custom games for the engine, where one can design own maps
[01:48:07] <vividos> hmm, should go in some minutes
[01:49:24] <Servus> :-/
[01:49:26] <Servus> almost done
[01:50:52] <vividos> ok
[01:57:56] <vividos> you of course can post links to images to the channel when I'm not online
[01:58:22] <Servus> ok im done
[02:02:20] <vividos> gtg, just post a link to an image or something
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[02:03:18] <Servus> bah
[02:06:23] <Servus> http://www.geocities.com/russell_figowitz/images/uw1.jpg
[02:06:51] <Servus> (minimal decoration,what do you expect in 5 minutes?) im outta here, bye
[02:09:10] <Servus> note that if i made and used my own textures, instead of using half-lifes... (and i had more than 5 minutes;) i'd be able to do a much more convincing job, but i hope you get the idea:)
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[10:36:59] <vividos> hi there
[10:40:10] <Servus> hello
[10:40:22] <Servus> the only action is in the exult room, and even that is boring
[10:44:35] <vividos> well, exult is mainly finished
[10:44:56] <vividos> mostly
[10:45:13] <Servus> the room though, has something of a pulse
[10:45:25] <Servus> darke and kirben are kind of speaking a little
[10:45:32] <vividos> yeah
[10:46:54] <Eldron> hmm, haven't slept at all this night, went crazy on some random texturing..
[10:46:56] <Eldron> http://eldron.20m.com/model/en/text_face3.jpg
[10:47:23] <Servus> im doing underworld models, actually
[10:47:36] <Servus> the face is nice... using deep paint or photoshop?
[10:47:50] <Eldron> photoshop.. hue, spec and bumpmap
[10:48:04] <vividos> looks nice
[10:48:16] <Servus> and 3dmax?
[10:48:22] <Eldron> blender
[10:48:26] <Servus> oh
[10:48:49] <Servus> deep paint is a program like photoshop -- it uses photoshops filters! -- that allows you to paint directly on a 3d model.. .rotate it around and airbrush onto different sides of it
[11:16:32] <Servus> lalala
[11:24:57] <vividos> hmm, did you say you modeled some underworld objects?
[11:28:08] <vividos> some muffins? :)
[11:34:17] <Servus> yes
[11:34:20] <Servus> want a screenshot?
[11:35:49] <vividos> yes
[11:36:11] <Servus> http://www.geocities.com/russell_figowitz/images/muffin.jpg
[11:36:30] <Servus> all are extremely low-poly
[11:36:31] <vividos> cool :) what format is it?
[11:36:45] <Servus> 3dmax, which means it can be exported to anything
[11:36:51] <vividos> very good
[11:37:00] <Servus> and i have a _legit_ copy of 3dmax;)
[11:37:03] <vividos> I'm very interested in those sort of things
[11:37:13] <vividos> :)
[11:37:15] <Servus> muffins?
[11:37:22] <vividos> all kind of objects
[11:37:27] <Servus> honestly i havent tried out uwadv yet, but LoW
[11:37:38] <Servus> im going through Castle British, and modelling things as i find them
[11:37:48] <Servus> what you see is every world model in the starting room :)
[11:37:53] <vividos> if you would try it, you would see why I want to use 3d objects instead of those crappy 2d sprites
[11:38:19] <Servus> LoW uses crappy 2d sprites too, but they seem further ahead than you on the 3d object matter
[11:38:24] <vividos> there is a muffin in the starting room? :)
[11:38:26] <Servus> they have fully animated humans
[11:38:27] <Servus> yes there is
[11:38:34] <Servus> and a bottle of water, ill do that now
[11:38:41] <vividos> well, Coren took 3d models from uo, which I cannot do
[11:38:51] <Servus> neither can he
[11:39:02] <Servus> but i only need to make one human from scratch
[11:39:08] <vividos> well, laws in his country are a little different
[11:39:23] <Servus> ive made several dozen low poly humans from scratch
[11:39:37] <Servus> did you see my Avatar i made for ultima 7?
[11:39:42] <vividos> yes
[11:40:00] <vividos> very nice
[11:40:02] <Servus> ty
[11:40:13] <Servus> ive made many others
[11:40:19] <Servus> most dont survive though :)
[11:40:24] <vividos> :)
[11:40:39] <vividos> well, I would be glad if you could do some for uwadv
[11:41:01] <Servus> ill let you use the LoW models im doing
[11:41:16] <Servus> http://www.geocities.com/russell_figowitz/images/reverend.jpg try this
[11:42:18] <vividos> also nice
[11:43:00] <Servus> ty
[11:43:06] <Servus> so what do you need
[11:43:16] <vividos> all objects :))
[11:43:18] <Servus> oh did you ever see my remapping of the Underworld I entrance?
[11:43:35] <vividos> yes, I saw it, I wanted to comment on it, too
[11:43:56] <Servus> what of it, remember that i only had 5 minutes;)
[11:45:33] <vividos> it looks also very nice. unfortunately I could not use it for uwadv, since the map format will stay as in the original
[11:45:40] <Servus> but why???
[11:46:03] <vividos> supporting a non-tiled map format would be a very difficult task
[11:46:06] <Servus> honestly, no matter how pretty your engine is, it wont look good enough to entice modern gamers
[11:46:18] <Servus> quake2 is open source;)
[11:47:20] <vividos> uwadv more "emulates" game behaviour than writing it from scratch as Coren does
[11:48:59] <vividos> I would suggest that you play uwadv if you don't have, to see how uwadv looks and works
[11:49:09] <Servus> as i said before, quake 2 and all its associated map-making tools are open source;P
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[11:50:11] <vividos> but I didn't want to do another remake based on another engine. one part of my uwadv experience is to write a game :) not using other people's work
[11:50:20] <Servus> not _based_ on it
[11:50:39] <Servus> rather, to use it to understand something about a complex binary space partition tree
[11:50:50] <Servus> as used to store map data in leaves and portals
[11:50:57] <Servus> a vistree, etc
[11:50:57] <vividos> bsp is boring
[11:51:00] <Servus> useful
[11:51:17] <Servus> and... lightmaps
[11:51:20] <vividos> for me it is very interesting to see how uw1 works
[11:51:30] <Servus> you cant expect to do lightmaps in real-time, you're not john carmack;)
[11:52:03] <vividos> :)
[11:53:34] <Servus> todo: bed, nightstand, bag, chair
[11:53:44] <Servus> turns out theres more stuff in that first room
[11:55:28] <Servus> so... i do think that you should update the maps
[11:55:56] <Servus> :P
[11:56:04] <vividos> with more objects?
[11:56:33] <Servus> no
[11:56:35] <Servus> the architecture
[11:56:46] <Servus> did you see the throne room i whipped together?
[11:56:51] <Servus> that is in the quake 2 engine as you see it
[11:56:53] <vividos> yes
[11:57:07] <Servus> at well over a hundred frames per second:P
[11:59:24] <Servus> shrugs
[11:59:26] <vividos> well, the map format wouldn't support updating the maps
[12:00:25] <vividos> and it definitely will stay tile-based
[12:01:00] <Servus> pleh
[12:01:19] <Servus> well, thats what you think now ;)
[12:01:30] <Servus> ill ask coren what he thinks about LoW, or i can do it myself:P
[12:03:32] <vividos> well, at least LoW's map format isn't tile based :)
[12:03:47] <vividos> have to go again then
[12:04:13] <Servus> youre leaving?
[12:04:31] <vividos> yes
[12:04:38] <Servus> ok
[12:04:59] <vividos> 'till later!
[12:06:01] <Servus> 'ta
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[12:25:18] <Servus> beds looking real nice:)
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[20:38:40] <QQtis> whazzuuuuuup.....
[20:38:41] <QQtis> :)))))
[20:39:08] <QQtis> so I guess everyone's been taking a break lately?
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[23:20:21] <vividos> hi
[23:20:55] <vividos> Eldron: something worth trying: http://www.blenderwars.com/downloads/3dsConverter.zip
[23:26:07] <Eldron> yea, gotta install python.., I doubt it exports bones and animations though :/
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[23:32:48] <vividos> no, but for basic objects it could work
[23:33:18] <vividos> or even importing that all_levels.3ds (I at least managed to load it and saw the levels)
[23:33:51] <vividos> I'm currently thinking about what format to use with uwadv
[23:34:25] <vividos> hmm, what does the blender publisher?
[23:35:14] <vividos> and btw, what is a sequence plugin in blender?
[23:39:36] <Eldron> blender publisher is just blender with some extra things for the game engine, publishing an exe file and such..
[23:40:00] <Eldron> a sequence plugin is a plugin used in the sequence editor, to make certain effects..
[23:41:59] <vividos> ah ok
[23:43:16] <vividos> heard of a thing called tuhopuu or bl-blender?
[23:43:31] <vividos> bf-blender, sorry
[23:43:41] <Eldron> I have not
[23:44:11] <vividos> also found library code that seems to read in blender files ..
[23:45:32] <Eldron> I think coren stumbled upon something like that, But it wasn't finished..
[23:49:54] <vividos> aah: http://projects.blender.org/
[23:50:10] <vividos> This is a command line tool to convert Blender files to CrystalSpace objects and levels (CrystalSpace is a very advanced and powerful engine with a rich set of features). It is totally independent of Blender.
[23:55:45] <vividos> the blender2cs tool looks promising
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