#xu4@irc.freenode.net logs for 15 Mar 2011 (GMT)

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[19:42:15] <NorwegianRockCat> Hey guys.
[19:42:33] <Dominus> heyo
[19:42:52] <NorwegianRockCat> How's everything?
[19:43:02] <NorwegianRockCat> I saw Darren's message last night.
[19:43:12] <NorwegianRockCat> I guess we'll go the email route :-)
[19:43:34] <Dominus> seems more profitable, yes :)
[19:43:52] <NorwegianRockCat> I never knew there was so much... uncertainty... behind the Ultima4 stuff.
[19:44:15] <Dominus> :(
[19:44:25] <NorwegianRockCat> On the plus side, I actually OWN a real copy, so things are sort of in the clear for my personal version.
[19:44:26] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah.
[19:45:14] <NorwegianRockCat> But that makes it very uncertain about an app store version.
[19:45:33] <Dominus> it makes it impossible
[19:46:03] <NorwegianRockCat> Is it not possible to download it from the Ultima dragons?
[19:46:22] <Dominus> I'm not sure whether EA really is honoring that
[19:46:33] <NorwegianRockCat> Hmm...
[19:46:44] <Dominus> and I have no idea of what is happening with SF and Xu4
[19:47:02] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah.
[19:47:32] <Dominus> if you have it stable, get in tocuh with bioware, as they are doing ultima stuff and might be interested in supporting it officially on the ipad...
[19:47:34] <NorwegianRockCat> But IIRC Origin was part of ea when they had released ultima4...
[19:47:49] <NorwegianRockCat> But Bioware is EA anyway, right?
[19:48:11] <Dominus> yes, they are doing UO
[19:48:31] <NorwegianRockCat> Really? I didn't know that.
[19:48:45] <NorwegianRockCat> I remember seeing this a while back, after I had been coding for a while...
[19:48:50] <NorwegianRockCat> http://www.ultimaaiera.com/blog/an-ultima-4-development-challenge/
[19:49:22] <NorwegianRockCat> So, should I contact them...
[19:49:23] <NorwegianRockCat> ?
[19:49:39] <NorwegianRockCat> or is it exactly what you said?
[19:49:46] <NorwegianRockCat> :-)
[19:49:48] <Dominus> I think you should contact them
[19:50:04] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, let me sort things with darren first.
[19:50:15] <Dominus> true :)
[19:50:28] <NorwegianRockCat> I would rather have a blessing from the project before I just run off in my own direction ;-)
[19:50:41] <Dominus> and yes, that post on aiera is what prompts me to say that :)
[19:51:31] <Dominus> we still have that problem with gpl vs Apple store license...
[19:51:32] <NorwegianRockCat> heh :-)
[19:51:53] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, at least I feel good that I had been working on the project for some time before I read that post.
[19:52:07] <NorwegianRockCat> I started around February last year...
[19:52:16] <NorwegianRockCat> but it's been very on and off.
[19:53:18] <NorwegianRockCat> Dominus: true about that...
[19:53:27] <NorwegianRockCat> but it depends on how many people own the code.
[19:53:54] <NorwegianRockCat> Dominus: if there are few people...
[19:54:25] <Dominus> chances are much better with xu4 than the problems vlc faced
[19:54:29] <NorwegianRockCat> Dominus: we would need to contact them and see if they are willing to re-license their changes such that we can "relicense" to the app store model.
[19:54:39] <NorwegianRockCat> So...
[19:54:55] <NorwegianRockCat> if people would be willing to relicense under something like the 3-clause BSD license...
[19:55:03] <NorwegianRockCat> then it would be "OK"
[19:55:21] <Dominus> yes, a general "want to release to app store - is it ok with you to change the license?"
[19:55:29] <NorwegianRockCat> Yes.
[19:55:39] <NorwegianRockCat> Well...
[19:55:45] <NorwegianRockCat> we should say, dual license...
[19:56:04] <NorwegianRockCat> so they know that the code isn't going to be only under the other license.
[19:56:08] <NorwegianRockCat> :-)
[19:56:26] <Dominus> licnse stuff is complicated
[19:56:30] <NorwegianRockCat> Tell me about it.
[19:56:39] <NorwegianRockCat> I worked at Trolltech and then Nokia...
[19:56:47] <NorwegianRockCat> and we had a lot of things to work with there.
[19:56:52] <Dominus> ah, yes, I was about to mention that :)
[19:57:02] <NorwegianRockCat> I also had help from Apple on one of my projects...
[19:57:14] <Dominus> so what do you think will happen with qt now?
[19:57:32] <NorwegianRockCat> Apple's lawyers make helping with code very difficult.
[19:57:37] <NorwegianRockCat> Wither Qt?
[19:57:44] <NorwegianRockCat> I think Qt will be OK for a while.
[19:58:03] <NorwegianRockCat> I mean I still know lots of people who work there.
[19:58:28] <NorwegianRockCat> I don't know how long it will be part of Nokia's main strategy...
[19:58:44] <NorwegianRockCat> But, I think there's still lots of things going on with Qt.
[19:58:50] <NorwegianRockCat> And Qt can't really die...
[19:58:57] <NorwegianRockCat> because it's open source.
[19:59:04] <Dominus> yes, that much is sure.
[19:59:11] <NorwegianRockCat> People can always fork it and continue working on it.
[19:59:17] <NorwegianRockCat> KDE certainly isn't going away...
[19:59:22] <Dominus> just seems like nokia is going to pull out
[19:59:44] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, it can happen.
[19:59:57] <NorwegianRockCat> But, at the moment, they are keeping that division still going.
[20:00:07] <NorwegianRockCat> And are hiring more at the moment.
[20:00:57] <NorwegianRockCat> I guess, I would make my choice of using it based on my current needs...
[20:01:03] <NorwegianRockCat> not on what will potentially happen...
[20:01:07] <NorwegianRockCat> because it might not...
[20:01:14] <NorwegianRockCat> and I might get what I need done now :-)
[20:01:37] <NorwegianRockCat> Anyway, most of the people I know that are there, are still hanging around for the moment.
[20:01:51] <NorwegianRockCat> If I would see lots of them going, I would be much more worried.
[20:02:02] <NorwegianRockCat> The talent is what is important there.
[20:02:25] <Dominus> true, I was just wondering about it the other day and thought I'd ask someone with a bit of knowledge :)
[20:02:27] <NorwegianRockCat> plus, who knows, maybe the open governance stuff will all be in place and it won't matter if Nokia disappears...
[20:02:53] <NorwegianRockCat> There will likely be others that are willing to pay for Qt's development at that time (I would expect).
[20:03:24] <Dominus> I haven't had much need of QT, only once when I thought I wanted to get Krusader on OS X...
[20:03:50] <NorwegianRockCat> Krusader?
[20:03:56] * NorwegianRockCat does a google search.
[20:04:11] <NorwegianRockCat> Ah!
[20:04:13] <NorwegianRockCat> heh :-)
[20:04:36] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah, the only problem is that it is KDE, so you have to get a lot of other things as well.
[20:04:44] <Dominus> kde file manager in NC http://www.krusader.org/
[20:04:50] <NorwegianRockCat> yup.
[20:05:04] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah, if it was just Qt, it would be easy to do...
[20:05:16] <NorwegianRockCat> but building all of KDE is a lot of things.
[20:05:22] <NorwegianRockCat> I know. :-)
[20:05:25] <Dominus> yes and when I finally got it built (around the time of Snow Leopard release - many problems with macports)
[20:05:37] <NorwegianRockCat> Did it work?
[20:06:01] <Dominus> other kde stuff didn't work, dbus problems, icon problems, rights issues and so on...
[20:06:22] <NorwegianRockCat> Ugh. Yeah that sounds about right.
[20:06:36] <Dominus> not to mention that it isn't integrated into os x at all and thus won't start apps and so on...
[20:06:41] <Dominus> I gave up on it then :)
[20:06:55] <NorwegianRockCat> Back in the day, there was a KDE mac project that helps with all that stuff, but I really don't know if it's worth it.
[20:07:09] <NorwegianRockCat> If it was straight KDE, it would be no problem.
[20:07:15] <Dominus> actually I gave up when each change in kde made macports endlessly rebuilt stuff
[20:07:28] <NorwegianRockCat> err straight Qt it would be no problem :-)
[20:07:31] <Dominus> the kde mac project is essentially dead
[20:07:39] <Dominus> I believe you :)
[20:07:42] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah... I can believe that.
[20:07:59] <NorwegianRockCat> I couldn't quite figure out what their point is.
[20:08:07] <NorwegianRockCat> err was.
[20:08:22] <NorwegianRockCat> They wanted KDE on Mac OS X...
[20:08:25] <NorwegianRockCat> because....
[20:08:25] <Dominus> I think it was for people like me to bypass building everything on macports
[20:08:33] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, there was that.
[20:08:40] <Dominus> when you want one or two specific programs
[20:08:45] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah.
[20:09:04] <NorwegianRockCat> I know one of the Kdevelop guys wanted to develop on the mac w/o rebooting to linux.
[20:09:07] <Dominus> I know, QT itself is most likely much easier with the existing framework
[20:09:16] <NorwegianRockCat> that seemed worthwhile...
[20:09:29] <NorwegianRockCat> It is :-)
[20:09:47] <NorwegianRockCat> Anyway, before I forget.
[20:09:53] <Dominus> shoot
[20:10:06] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, it's for Darren. :-)
[20:10:17] <NorwegianRockCat> Darren, contact me through source forge: https://sourceforge.net/users/twschulz
[20:10:30] <Dominus> sorry, I tend to rant these days, waiting for the birth of my son to begin these days...
[20:10:31] <NorwegianRockCat> That way I'm less likely to get killed by the spam robots :-)
[20:10:35] <NorwegianRockCat> No worries :-)
[20:11:21] <NorwegianRockCat> Anyway, hopefully Darren can get back to me and we'll be exchanging emails in no time.
[20:11:43] <NorwegianRockCat> And then we'll get the U4 onto the app store with no problems
[20:11:48] <NorwegianRockCat> and the world will be a better place.
[20:11:52] <NorwegianRockCat> and everyone will be happy.
[20:12:19] <NorwegianRockCat> Actually, if Bioware would be willing to put money into artwork and stuff, it would be great.
[20:12:29] <NorwegianRockCat> I looked into the cost for that and it really isn't cheap.
[20:12:38] <NorwegianRockCat> I meant, it would look great, but still.
[20:12:48] <NorwegianRockCat> I just don't have that kind of money laying around.
[20:17:20] <Dominus> yes :)
[20:17:23] <NorwegianRockCat> Anyway, it seems that Darren has been in contact with the people already...
[20:17:38] <NorwegianRockCat> We'll see. I suspect it will be some forward and back.
[20:17:48] <NorwegianRockCat> Have you found any other bugs in the meantime.
[20:18:06] <NorwegianRockCat> I think there's a memory leak somewhere that I need to patch.
[20:18:09] <NorwegianRockCat> err...
[20:18:20] <NorwegianRockCat> Have you found any other bugs in the meantime?
[20:18:22] <NorwegianRockCat> :-)
[20:19:13] <Dominus> no, haven't played anymore though :)
[20:19:36] <Dominus> I need cheats and stuff
[20:19:57] <Dominus> also I have neo idea anymore what to do and where I am on the map :)
[20:20:08] <Dominus> much like the first time I played u4
[20:20:35] <NorwegianRockCat> Heh!
[20:20:37] <Dominus> a friend gave me his c64 floppies and told me to play that... without any docuemantation I had no clue at all :)
[20:20:55] <NorwegianRockCat> Geez. that would be tough.
[20:21:08] <NorwegianRockCat> I must admit it was much easier with xu4...
[20:21:17] <NorwegianRockCat> since I could play with a textpad open...
[20:21:24] <NorwegianRockCat> and a web browser with the map...
[20:21:39] <NorwegianRockCat> which means xu4 probably needs some sort of equivalent on the iPad.
[20:21:44] <NorwegianRockCat> or iPhone.
[20:22:05] <NorwegianRockCat> I was thinking of adding some sort of journal where you could store all conversation...
[20:22:08] <NorwegianRockCat> and then look at that.
[20:22:23] <NorwegianRockCat> I at least made spell mixing somewhat possible w/o a manual...
[20:22:29] <NorwegianRockCat> at least as an idea.
[20:22:48] <Dominus> yes, but mostly since the ipad version already supports resuming switching back and forth should be okayish
[20:23:49] <NorwegianRockCat> well, until it runs out of memory and just quits :-)
[20:24:05] <NorwegianRockCat> you do need to be able to copy and paste then...
[20:24:13] <NorwegianRockCat> So the text needs to come out in a label...
[20:24:20] <NorwegianRockCat> that you can copy out of...
[20:24:33] <NorwegianRockCat> Because otherwise you will be switching a lot.
[20:24:59] <Dominus> yes, I was just thinking of looking things up in a pdf, browser or so, not the notes taking
[20:25:31] <NorwegianRockCat> True...
[20:25:44] <NorwegianRockCat> Though for the magic thing, I think my solution is better...
[20:25:48] <NorwegianRockCat> I did however...
[20:25:58] <NorwegianRockCat> make some epub's of the text version of the Ultima manuals..
[20:26:17] <NorwegianRockCat> The idea was to make them openable in iBooks or something...
[20:26:29] <NorwegianRockCat> but I haven't gotten that far.
[20:26:38] <NorwegianRockCat> That is really gold plating...
[20:26:52] <NorwegianRockCat> I would rather have the game playable and stuff before hand.
[20:27:32] <NorwegianRockCat> Still, I need to fix some other issues before that.
[20:27:43] <NorwegianRockCat> Not to mention sort out the legality of things.
[20:27:55] <NorwegianRockCat> and get things back to xu4.
[20:28:07] <NorwegianRockCat> So, we have a lot to work on.
[20:30:17] <Dominus> yup, you and darren need to sort things out, legal u4 issues need to be sorted out, legal license issues and off you go :)
[20:47:03] <Dominus> nighty night, need to splee
[20:47:04] <NorwegianRockCat> Heck yeah! :-)
[20:47:05] <Dominus> p
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[20:47:19] <NorwegianRockCat> Later!
[20:47:21] <NorwegianRockCat> Doh
[20:47:49] <NorwegianRockCat> anyway, Darren, looking forward to hearing from you: https://sourceforge.net/users/twschulz
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