#xu4@irc.freenode.net logs for 21 Mar 2011 (GMT)

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[00:29:22] <-- Darrenor64 has left IRC ()
[00:58:57] --> Darrenor64 has joined #xu4
[13:17:51] <-- Kirben has left IRC ()
[19:08:15] --> NorwegianRockCat has joined #xu4
[19:08:24] <Darrenor64> Hello.
[19:08:28] <NorwegianRockCat> Hey!
[19:08:29] <Darrenor64> We finally intersected!
[19:08:34] <NorwegianRockCat> Rock! :-)
[19:08:45] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah, well I figured I should try again.
[19:08:54] <NorwegianRockCat> Do you have some time?
[19:09:06] <Darrenor64> sure.
[19:09:12] <NorwegianRockCat> Cool.
[19:09:27] <NorwegianRockCat> So, I guess we are sort of working on the same thing...
[19:09:36] <NorwegianRockCat> that is an iOS port :-)
[19:10:01] <NorwegianRockCat> How far along are you?
[19:10:11] <Darrenor64> yes. and it seems that you've made some progress.
[19:10:14] <Darrenor64> I'll show you a video.
[19:10:19] <NorwegianRockCat> OK.
[19:10:46] <Darrenor64> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ5TAfn6FDA
[19:10:59] <NorwegianRockCat> Ah. You tube.
[19:11:12] <NorwegianRockCat> I guess this is on the simulator?
[19:11:16] <Darrenor64> yes
[19:11:25] <Darrenor64> i don't have a formal ios dev license yet.
[19:11:39] <NorwegianRockCat> Ah, you can go a long ways before you need that.
[19:11:40] <NorwegianRockCat> really.
[19:11:47] <Darrenor64> agreed.
[19:11:53] <Darrenor64> it's a nice environment for developing.
[19:12:04] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah. It's pretty good.
[19:12:14] <NorwegianRockCat> Much more polished than anything else I had to deal with.
[19:12:28] <Darrenor64> well, i like eclipse a lot too (for java development)
[19:12:45] <NorwegianRockCat> Ah, yes, eclipse is the monster to beat for Java.
[19:12:53] <Darrenor64> google released a good eclipse setup for android dev
[19:13:08] <NorwegianRockCat> The 4.0 of Xcode is bringing some decent stuff to C++ and friends now.
[19:13:18] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah, I actually haven't had any time to look at Android.
[19:13:26] <NorwegianRockCat> I imagine I will soon enough.
[19:13:40] <NorwegianRockCat> It seems we have projects at work that will be Android-only...
[19:13:48] <NorwegianRockCat> and I'm sure I'll have to code for those at some point.
[19:13:56] <Darrenor64> sounds like fun.
[19:14:05] <NorwegianRockCat> we'll see ;-)
[19:14:08] <NorwegianRockCat> Anyway, are you using SDL for everything?
[19:14:12] <NorwegianRockCat> Or a combination?
[19:14:14] <Darrenor64> so basically, i set up an instance of xu4 with a preset character/location etc. the ios interface is able to send it commands.
[19:14:20] <Darrenor64> my compile has absolutely no sdl
[19:14:24] <NorwegianRockCat> Same here.
[19:14:26] <Darrenor64> i use ios to draw the map.
[19:14:38] <NorwegianRockCat> So, you ported image_sdl.cpp to iOS?
[19:14:44] <Darrenor64> the SDL implementation in xu4 is very.... screen-coordinate-heavy.
[19:14:50] <NorwegianRockCat> heh. yes
[19:14:57] <Darrenor64> i'm hoping you fixed some of that.
[19:15:12] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, what I did...
[19:15:23] <NorwegianRockCat> Was change the backend to image.h
[19:15:33] <NorwegianRockCat> To use CGLayer's as the backend.
[19:15:35] <Darrenor64> actually, i just left all the SDL methods blank, and had a different process in ios to query the tiles and draw them.
[19:15:45] <NorwegianRockCat> Oh, well, that works...
[19:15:48] <Darrenor64> i had an interface ready before i even started wtih xu4
[19:15:54] <NorwegianRockCat> I see.
[19:16:04] <NorwegianRockCat> I started with xu4 and saw what to port...
[19:16:10] <NorwegianRockCat> but I've had to do lots of porting...
[19:16:18] <NorwegianRockCat> so I'm used to start things that way.
[19:16:29] <NorwegianRockCat> Anyway, once I ported to CGLayer's...
[19:16:39] <NorwegianRockCat> most of the stuff just worked...
[19:16:41] <NorwegianRockCat> Well...
[19:16:51] <NorwegianRockCat> I had to create a "U4View"
[19:16:58] <NorwegianRockCat> that corresponded to the screen.
[19:17:03] <Darrenor64> ah yes.
[19:17:13] <NorwegianRockCat> So, that when something wanted to draw to the screen it just drew to the view.
[19:17:16] <NorwegianRockCat> and it all worked well.
[19:17:41] <Darrenor64> yes, that's a better long-term solution.
[19:17:50] <NorwegianRockCat> I had to get away from the pixel based stuff...
[19:18:00] <Darrenor64> how so?
[19:18:06] <NorwegianRockCat> but the pixel based operations in image are so primitive you can fake them...
[19:18:07] <NorwegianRockCat> Well...
[19:18:09] <NorwegianRockCat> Let's see.
[19:18:21] <NorwegianRockCat> for drawing a subrect onto another image...
[19:18:37] <NorwegianRockCat> I just set a clip and set a transform .
[19:18:42] <NorwegianRockCat> So that solves that.
[19:18:46] <NorwegianRockCat> Same for inversion.
[19:18:47] <Darrenor64> in the current SVN branch, i've been starting to separate much of the SDL specifics with generics. the original design did a good job of this, but as new features were added, people got complacent and just included sdl.h wherever.
[19:19:13] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah, actually I was really impressed by how clean the design was.
[19:19:16] <Darrenor64> what version of xu4 did you modify from?
[19:19:40] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, I started with the last svn checktout from about February 2010
[19:19:42] <NorwegianRockCat> I think...
[19:19:47] <Darrenor64> is your concept of the xu4view within the core code in any form?
[19:19:56] <NorwegianRockCat> No...
[19:20:01] <NorwegianRockCat> It's abstracted...
[19:20:06] <NorwegianRockCat> to image_ipad.mm
[19:20:16] <NorwegianRockCat> So, only the image_ipad stuff knows about it.
[19:20:22] <Darrenor64> i see.
[19:20:34] <NorwegianRockCat> It's how we did stuff with Qt and it works well.
[19:20:41] <NorwegianRockCat> So, the header can remain untouched...
[19:20:51] <Darrenor64> Absolutely.
[19:20:53] <NorwegianRockCat> and your Xcode project/Makefile just includes the proper files.
[19:20:59] <NorwegianRockCat> Actually, I was going to ask...
[19:21:05] <NorwegianRockCat> The sound changes you added in...
[19:21:14] <NorwegianRockCat> actually made porting more difficult for me :-)
[19:21:21] <NorwegianRockCat> I actually reverted them back to the original.
[19:21:27] <Darrenor64> hahaha, what went wrong?
[19:21:30] <NorwegianRockCat> and just added sound_ipad.mm and music_ipad.mm
[19:21:37] <NorwegianRockCat> Well... your heart is the right place.
[19:21:56] <NorwegianRockCat> You wanted to create a generic "interface" to the music...
[19:22:02] <NorwegianRockCat> but really the headers had it already.
[19:22:26] <NorwegianRockCat> What it looked like you were creating would, in theory, let you choose a music backend at runtime...
[19:22:43] <NorwegianRockCat> which really doesn't make much sense for a game like xu4.
[19:22:59] <NorwegianRockCat> IMHO :-)
[19:23:19] <NorwegianRockCat> Anyway, just thought I would let you know.
[19:23:36] <NorwegianRockCat> You can get by just keeping it as is...
[19:23:38] <NorwegianRockCat> more or less...
[19:23:47] <NorwegianRockCat> There's _some_ code duplication...
[19:23:56] <NorwegianRockCat> but that could be factored out.
[19:24:15] <NorwegianRockCat> Anyway, I have sound working, so I'm not too concerned.
[19:24:38] <NorwegianRockCat> It actually just took a weekend, I was pretty amazed at how easy it is to do on iOS.
[19:24:43] <NorwegianRockCat> really amazed.
[19:24:54] <Darrenor64> did you just start?
[19:25:11] <NorwegianRockCat> No, I did that about a month ago...
[19:25:21] <NorwegianRockCat> I think I had got it all done...
[19:25:24] <Darrenor64> it's a shame that my experimental restructure of the sound became an obstacle. maybe we'll need to revert that.
[19:25:38] <NorwegianRockCat> Hey, you have to try stuff.
[19:25:40] <NorwegianRockCat> Don't worry.
[19:25:51] <NorwegianRockCat> I would actually just put it back to what was there before.
[19:26:00] <NorwegianRockCat> It's fairly abstracted.
[19:26:08] <NorwegianRockCat> I mean if you want to use a class...
[19:26:11] <NorwegianRockCat> for sound.h
[19:26:13] <Darrenor64> it's been a while, so I don't remember exactly what was done. it was probably just a way of making it easier to compile to iOS -- but I found a better way of solving that problem.
[19:26:21] <NorwegianRockCat> You can always do that in you cpp file :-)
[19:26:29] <NorwegianRockCat> Ah.
[19:26:43] <Darrenor64> Though it was a fun lesson.
[19:26:52] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, you were trying to create an instance of a sound system...
[19:26:56] <Darrenor64> (above) I meant though, did you fix xu4 to not depend so heavily on screen coordinates, and abstract the concept of the mainmap view, and the text view etc.
[19:27:01] <NorwegianRockCat> and then using it.
[19:27:13] <NorwegianRockCat> I haven't gotten that far yet.
[19:27:20] <NorwegianRockCat> But I would like to do that eventually.
[19:27:38] <Darrenor64> is your ios view an exact duplicate of the xu4 screen?
[19:27:39] <NorwegianRockCat> My main goal was to get the game playable.
[19:27:45] <NorwegianRockCat> yeah.
[19:27:48] <Darrenor64> ah, i see.
[19:27:51] <Darrenor64> ok.
[19:27:54] <NorwegianRockCat> But it's sandwhiched in the middle of the screen.
[19:27:59] <NorwegianRockCat> In a layout.
[19:28:02] <Darrenor64> what is your input?
[19:28:07] <Darrenor64> ios keyboard?
[19:28:15] <NorwegianRockCat> Only for conversation.
[19:28:20] <NorwegianRockCat> I have a bunch of buttons
[19:28:24] <Darrenor64> nice.
[19:28:32] <Darrenor64> how do you get the buttons to interact with the game?
[19:28:33] <NorwegianRockCat> They just send the corresponding key to the eventloop.
[19:28:36] <Darrenor64> ah.
[19:28:38] <NorwegianRockCat> Yup
[19:28:45] <NorwegianRockCat> Use the event loop, luke :-)
[19:28:58] <NorwegianRockCat> iOS, like Cocoa, really wants to control the event loop.
[19:29:04] <Darrenor64> hah, same here.
[19:29:18] <NorwegianRockCat> Heh, then you will get into LOTS of arguments.
[19:29:21] <NorwegianRockCat> :-)
[19:29:32] <NorwegianRockCat> iOS never lets you win ;-)
[19:29:54] <NorwegianRockCat> Anyway, so, i just get the current event loop and then send it the keypress.
[19:29:54] <Darrenor64> Are you getting the .it files to play in ios?
[19:30:04] <NorwegianRockCat> I went a different route for that.
[19:30:12] <NorwegianRockCat> Since I didn't know you had the .it files...
[19:30:19] <Darrenor64> midi?
[19:30:28] <NorwegianRockCat> Sort of.
[19:30:36] <Darrenor64> oh?
[19:30:44] <Darrenor64> do tell.
[19:30:46] <NorwegianRockCat> I converted the .mid files that are in the repo to .mp4
[19:30:52] <Darrenor64> ah, is ee.
[19:30:57] <NorwegianRockCat> But I didn't just load them in iTunes and "save as"
[19:31:05] <NorwegianRockCat> I dropped them in GarageBand
[19:31:14] <Darrenor64> oh. i'd like to hear them!
[19:31:19] <NorwegianRockCat> and then used the instrument samples to "remaster" them.
[19:31:23] <Darrenor64> cool!
[19:31:25] <NorwegianRockCat> They sound OK.
[19:31:28] <NorwegianRockCat> I mean...
[19:31:39] <NorwegianRockCat> I'm not a sound engineer by any stretch of the imagination...
[19:31:48] <Darrenor64> ha.
[19:31:48] <NorwegianRockCat> but they do sound "good"
[19:31:54] <NorwegianRockCat> not great, but good.
[19:32:02] <NorwegianRockCat> I think they sound a bit better than the .it files...
[19:32:07] <NorwegianRockCat> but that's just my opinion..
[19:32:10] <Darrenor64> are they nice and small?
[19:32:19] <NorwegianRockCat> OK-ish size.
[19:32:26] <NorwegianRockCat> I didn't really try and optimize that.
[19:32:35] <NorwegianRockCat> Did you download the simulator demo I posted?
[19:32:45] <NorwegianRockCat> The files should be in there?
[19:32:47] <Darrenor64> no, i must have missed that in a sea of text.
[19:32:51] <NorwegianRockCat> Heh..
[19:32:54] <NorwegianRockCat> That's old anyway.
[19:33:05] <NorwegianRockCat> Let me build you something fresh.
[19:33:09] <Darrenor64> ok.
[19:33:24] <NorwegianRockCat> Then you can just pull the .m4a files right out of it (I suspect).
[19:33:28] * NorwegianRockCat fires up Xcode.
[19:33:42] <Darrenor64> when testing it out, i'll have to jump into my other room where my mac mini is.
[19:33:59] <NorwegianRockCat> OK.
[19:34:07] <NorwegianRockCat> Do you have the iOS 4.3 stuff installed?
[19:34:09] <NorwegianRockCat> Well...
[19:34:12] <NorwegianRockCat> It doesn't matter.
[19:34:23] <NorwegianRockCat> I don't use anything advanced beyond 3.2
[19:34:25] <Darrenor64> ok. it's probably an auto-update, right?
[19:35:16] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, when did you last download Xcode?
[19:35:30] <NorwegianRockCat> Assuming you get it the "old-fashioned" way not through the App store.
[19:36:58] * NorwegianRockCat packages up his iPad app.
[19:37:10] <Darrenor64> yeah, it was 'old fashioned'
[19:38:03] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, it doesn't matter.
[19:38:07] <Darrenor64> great
[19:38:13] <NorwegianRockCat> As long as you have the iPad simulator, you should be in good shape.
[19:38:14] <NorwegianRockCat> :-)
[19:38:58] <NorwegianRockCat> ugh. iDisk is soooooo slow.
[19:39:12] <NorwegianRockCat> I should have went with dropbox, *sigh* :-)
[19:39:25] <Darrenor64> what is your recommended way of running this?
[19:39:41] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, it's a zip file...
[19:40:18] <NorwegianRockCat> Do you have a ~/Library/Application Support/iPhone Simulator directory?
[19:41:38] <Darrenor64> I must. brb.
[19:41:58] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, there should be version numbers there...
[19:42:11] <NorwegianRockCat> like 3.2, 4.2, etc.
[19:42:35] <NorwegianRockCat> You will want to unzip this file in X.Y/Applications
[19:42:46] <NorwegianRockCat> where X.Y is the version number.
[19:42:52] <NorwegianRockCat> link is https://files.me.com/twschulz/dzuh4o
[19:43:13] <Darrenor64> ok.
[19:43:27] <NorwegianRockCat> Anyway, give it a shot now...
[19:43:33] <NorwegianRockCat> and see what happens...
[19:43:43] <NorwegianRockCat> assuming you unzip the think into applications...
[19:43:51] <NorwegianRockCat> It should just show up in the Simulator.
[19:43:56] <Darrenor64> ok.
[19:43:57] <Darrenor64> brb.
[19:43:59] <NorwegianRockCat> Sure.
[19:49:55] <Darrenor64> oooh, neat.
[19:50:09] <Darrenor64> so i was able to run the iphone simulator. where can i get the ipad sim?
[19:50:42] <NorwegianRockCat> There should be a menu item to change...
[19:50:45] <NorwegianRockCat> Hardware I think...
[19:50:49] <NorwegianRockCat> just a sec.
[19:50:50] <Darrenor64> ok
[19:51:05] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah, Hardware * Device.
[19:51:12] <NorwegianRockCat> Change it to iPad and you should be set...
[19:55:18] <Darrenor64> cool. just had to make sure to unzip to the right version.
[19:55:23] <Darrenor64> it seems some tiles have been updated?
[19:55:29] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah...
[19:55:30] <NorwegianRockCat> well...
[19:55:32] <NorwegianRockCat> kind of.
[19:55:40] <Darrenor64> did you do your own tranparency too?
[19:55:46] <NorwegianRockCat> Me and a friend went through and "touched" them up.
[19:55:48] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah...
[19:55:49] <NorwegianRockCat> Well...
[19:55:55] <NorwegianRockCat> more just removing the black from everything.
[19:55:58] <NorwegianRockCat> Basically...
[19:56:03] <NorwegianRockCat> I went and pulled all the images out...
[19:56:08] <NorwegianRockCat> and saved them as PNG's
[19:56:16] <Darrenor64> cool. did you keep them as PNGs in the end?
[19:56:19] <NorwegianRockCat> that let me change things easily.
[19:56:21] <NorwegianRockCat> Yes.
[19:56:29] <NorwegianRockCat> They should be in the bundle.
[19:56:31] <Darrenor64> maybe we could put those in the svn for the xu4 version
[19:56:34] <Darrenor64> excellent.
[19:56:52] <Darrenor64> do you think your friend would be interested in doubling the resolution as well :D?
[19:57:11] <NorwegianRockCat> I doubt it...
[19:57:16] <NorwegianRockCat> he mostly works as a programmer...
[19:57:19] <Darrenor64> ah.
[19:57:28] <NorwegianRockCat> But he knows those tools a bit better than I do.
[19:57:41] <NorwegianRockCat> So, I doubt he has much time...
[19:57:44] <Darrenor64> those VGA tiles are really awesome, but updating their resolution would be a treat.
[19:57:49] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah...
[19:57:56] <Darrenor64> it looks pretty cool, i'll go in the other room and play with it for a bit.
[19:57:59] <NorwegianRockCat> What about those "hi res" ones you put in SVN.
[19:58:05] <NorwegianRockCat> Sure, go ahead.
[19:58:20] <NorwegianRockCat> I'll be around for a little while at least.
[19:58:54] <Darrenor64> those were hidden on the xu4 website. no one knows where they came from. i don't like them as much as the VGAs to be honest. Some I like, others I don't. Sadly, it's all in the u4 native form. Perhaps they can be converted into PNGs as well.
[19:59:01] <Darrenor64> and then they can be selectively improved.
[19:59:04] <Darrenor64> brb
[19:59:12] <NorwegianRockCat> Sure.
[19:59:30] <NorwegianRockCat> Any of them can be turned to PNG's.
[19:59:37] <NorwegianRockCat> They are just bits after all.
[20:00:00] <NorwegianRockCat> You do have to cut them up though, and that will take a while.
[20:00:18] <NorwegianRockCat> I'm not sure what I did the first time when I saved them, because I remember I got it done very fast.
[20:03:59] <Darrenor64> the tile parsing algorithm may be improved for convenience. i really like what you've done. i'd like to find a way to merge our efforts on both the xu4 base and ios, and come up with a way to have it work well on the ipod as well.
[20:04:24] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah, most of the stuff should work on the iPhone as well...
[20:04:31] <NorwegianRockCat> It just needs different nibs.
[20:04:44] <NorwegianRockCat> But the code for the controller should be the same for both.
[20:04:47] <Darrenor64> we just need to rearrange the 'views', and conceptually separate the idea of views within xu4
[20:05:03] <Darrenor64> and come up with new ones that respect the compact interface.
[20:05:12] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah.
[20:05:20] <Darrenor64> but it looks like you have a much more solid base on the ios side. mine was very prototypey.
[20:05:24] <NorwegianRockCat> It shouldn't be that difficult... really.
[20:05:36] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah, well, I've been working on it longer, probably...
[20:05:45] <NorwegianRockCat> It's been over a year or so...
[20:05:50] <Darrenor64> wow.
[20:05:54] <NorwegianRockCat> and my main goal was to get something that worked.
[20:05:56] <NorwegianRockCat> Well...
[20:06:03] <NorwegianRockCat> A year in weekends...
[20:06:04] <NorwegianRockCat> if that.
[20:06:16] <NorwegianRockCat> Hour wise... it's probably been a few months.
[20:06:35] <NorwegianRockCat> But I've had some experience with iOS and Cocoa before...
[20:06:42] <NorwegianRockCat> and done a bit of GUI programming...
[20:06:54] <NorwegianRockCat> so I have a bit of experience to lean on.
[20:06:55] <Darrenor64> I think one of the first things we should do is merge the base xu4 code.
[20:07:09] <NorwegianRockCat> Well the code is mostly there.
[20:07:20] <Darrenor64> within the zip?
[20:07:25] <NorwegianRockCat> Oh, no :-)
[20:07:43] <NorwegianRockCat> I meant that my code is mostly built on top of what's in SVN.
[20:07:49] <Darrenor64> up-to-date svn?
[20:07:53] <NorwegianRockCat> Fairly...
[20:08:04] <NorwegianRockCat> At least from early march.
[20:08:11] <NorwegianRockCat> Let's see...
[20:08:13] <Darrenor64> of this year? ok.
[20:08:23] <Darrenor64> do you have write access on the svn?
[20:08:44] <NorwegianRockCat> No.
[20:08:55] <NorwegianRockCat> The last change is from Dominus on March 1st.
[20:09:03] <Darrenor64> 2010?
[20:09:06] <NorwegianRockCat> no 2011
[20:09:12] <Darrenor64> ah, ok, good good that makes sense.
[20:09:42] <NorwegianRockCat> I could start trying to merge the things in, I'm guessing that I need to be a bit careful...
[20:09:48] <NorwegianRockCat> I rewrote some of the .conf files...
[20:09:55] <NorwegianRockCat> and that's probably going to step on things...
[20:09:56] <Darrenor64> in an additive way?
[20:10:03] <NorwegianRockCat> Not really.
[20:10:06] <NorwegianRockCat> I just replaced the xml.
[20:10:14] <NorwegianRockCat> I could toss them in another directory.
[20:10:16] <Darrenor64> heh. how much of it?
[20:10:27] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, just the graphics and music stuff.
[20:10:36] <NorwegianRockCat> To reference my stuff and not the other things.
[20:10:51] <NorwegianRockCat> So, they could sit in an iOS file instead.
[20:10:51] <Darrenor64> that may be for the best. some of that xml was cumbersome.
[20:11:01] <NorwegianRockCat> err iOS directory.
[20:11:11] <Darrenor64> or we can allow for an alternative config source.
[20:11:22] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, the XML gives you that actually.
[20:11:38] <Darrenor64> so it's more of a bypass then
[20:11:45] <NorwegianRockCat> Right.
[20:11:49] <NorwegianRockCat> Basically...
[20:12:10] <NorwegianRockCat> SDL wants to use .mids and .oggs and stuff from the u4 binary.
[20:12:26] <NorwegianRockCat> I want to use .m4a, .caf, and pngs sitting in directories.
[20:12:35] <NorwegianRockCat> So, I just changed the XML to match it.
[20:12:42] <NorwegianRockCat> That's fine for my port...
[20:12:42] <Darrenor64> ok.
[20:12:52] <NorwegianRockCat> but SDL gets grumpy when I do that.
[20:13:04] <NorwegianRockCat> At least SDL_mixer doesn't understand mp4 or .caf
[20:13:14] <NorwegianRockCat> Which I can understand to an extent.
[20:13:27] <Darrenor64> perhaps we can change them to mp3. what is caf?
[20:13:46] <NorwegianRockCat> Caf is a special format for iOS.
[20:13:50] <Darrenor64> soudn?
[20:13:53] <NorwegianRockCat> Which is optimized for it.
[20:13:54] <NorwegianRockCat> yes.
[20:13:58] <Darrenor64> ooh.
[20:14:00] <NorwegianRockCat> Just like m4a.
[20:14:06] <NorwegianRockCat> I mean...
[20:14:21] <NorwegianRockCat> We can also convert the things to for the sound as well.
[20:14:27] <NorwegianRockCat> so SDL can benefit.
[20:14:35] <NorwegianRockCat> I'd rather not go with MP3's personally.
[20:14:40] <NorwegianRockCat> I guess I'm silly that way.
[20:14:52] <Darrenor64> ogg?
[20:15:00] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, vorbis...
[20:15:05] <NorwegianRockCat> instead of the .mid files.
[20:15:15] <NorwegianRockCat> So, people can benefit from the better sound.
[20:15:17] <NorwegianRockCat> on SDL at least.
[20:15:29] <Darrenor64> currently SDL is using the it files, which are similar to the midi.
[20:15:34] <NorwegianRockCat> OK...
[20:16:01] <NorwegianRockCat> The issue is more SDL_mixer...
[20:16:14] <NorwegianRockCat> So, it just needs to be in a format that it understands as well.
[20:16:35] <NorwegianRockCat> Anyway, using m4a (mp4) is "better" for hardware decoding...
[20:16:41] <NorwegianRockCat> So, better battery life.
[20:16:54] <NorwegianRockCat> No one wants Ultima to drain their device :-)
[20:17:19] <NorwegianRockCat> Which is also why I changed things over to png's for the graphics...
[20:17:33] <NorwegianRockCat> I figured that is likely has more optimized paths.
[20:17:49] <Darrenor64> although, they only do get read once at least in the xu4 version.
[20:18:09] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, I at least do a free if we get a low memory warning...
[20:18:15] <NorwegianRockCat> So, they can get re-read.
[20:18:23] <Darrenor64> Oh wow.
[20:18:25] <NorwegianRockCat> Though I haven't really checked if this works.
[20:18:37] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, I call a function that was there.
[20:18:52] <NorwegianRockCat> No guarantees that it actually frees memory...
[20:18:57] <Darrenor64> never thought much about memory constraints... please hold, i'm going to go into a dungeon on the ipad simulator.
[20:19:05] <NorwegianRockCat> Oh, OK :-)
[20:19:07] <Darrenor64> brb
[20:19:13] <NorwegianRockCat> You're quick.
[20:19:28] <Darrenor64> oh by the way, is there a way to enable to EGA tileset?
[20:19:36] <NorwegianRockCat> Not currently.
[20:19:51] <NorwegianRockCat> I just put in the VGA ones.
[20:19:54] <Darrenor64> are you interested in uploading your ios project files to the xu4 svn?
[20:19:56] <NorwegianRockCat> I always thought they were better.
[20:20:02] <Darrenor64> they really are
[20:20:26] <NorwegianRockCat> Yes, sure I could put the things onto SVN.
[20:20:32] <NorwegianRockCat> Ideally, this should be part of the project.
[20:20:46] <NorwegianRockCat> I was just doing this to keep my coding skills good...
[20:20:59] <NorwegianRockCat> and to live my old dream of doing some sort of "game development"
[20:21:17] <NorwegianRockCat> Ideally, I would like to get it to the App store some time though.
[20:21:22] <NorwegianRockCat> What do you know about that?
[20:21:35] <NorwegianRockCat> It sounds like you've been in contact with some people about that at least?
[20:28:58] <Darrenor64> yeah. apparently there was a challenge to do this, so I responded to it and made some progress. but their interest has shifted focus and they haven't really responded. in fact, though sourceforge some EA copyright people took issue with the website allowing u4.dos as a download. The originator of this project told them the situation about his right to distribute.
[20:29:17] <Darrenor64> So like you said, this is at the very least a good opportunity (for me) to learn iOS.
[20:29:30] <Darrenor64> and a great way to improve the core features of xu4 itself.
[20:30:52] <NorwegianRockCat> True.
[20:30:59] <Darrenor64> the improvements to xu4 would make it also possible to make an android version, which I'd hope to do soon -- which is more compatible with the xu4 project (being that it requires copyrighted material to run). Not everyone has "The complete ultima collection" cd.
[20:31:10] <Darrenor64> but xu4 is special since u4 was released as sort-of freeware.
[20:31:23] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah, "sort of" :-)
[20:31:36] <NorwegianRockCat> I do actually have the Ultima Collection as well.
[20:31:40] <Darrenor64> personally, I love the game. played it on the c64 when i was young.
[20:31:46] <NorwegianRockCat> Ah.
[20:31:47] <Darrenor64> (I got it with Ultima 9)
[20:31:53] <NorwegianRockCat> Oh.
[20:31:53] <Darrenor64> "Dragon Edition"
[20:31:58] <NorwegianRockCat> I never played Ultima 9.
[20:32:06] <NorwegianRockCat> It seemed to strange...
[20:32:10] <NorwegianRockCat> Or rather too late.
[20:32:20] <Darrenor64> It certainly was.
[20:32:25] <NorwegianRockCat> I must admit I only played Ultima 4 when it was "free"
[20:32:26] <Darrenor64> I liked the music........
[20:32:35] <Darrenor64> did you play u7?
[20:32:38] <NorwegianRockCat> Yes.
[20:32:48] <NorwegianRockCat> That was my first ultima actually.
[20:32:56] <NorwegianRockCat> No wait.
[20:32:59] <Darrenor64> it was a golden age for the series, to be sure.
[20:33:03] <NorwegianRockCat> Ultima Underworld was my first ultima.
[20:33:05] <NorwegianRockCat> :-)
[20:33:21] <NorwegianRockCat> Though I forget that that counts as an ultima sometimes.
[20:33:44] <Darrenor64> UW2 was really awesome.
[20:33:58] <NorwegianRockCat> Never got a chance to play that one.
[20:34:05] <NorwegianRockCat> I heard it fixed some of the issues...
[20:34:14] <NorwegianRockCat> but I enjoyed the first one pretty well...
[20:34:23] <NorwegianRockCat> even though I had to buy the hint book
[20:34:47] <NorwegianRockCat> But at the same time, I had made my game unwinnable, so it's just as well.
[20:34:48] <Darrenor64> I've played & finsihed all of them except for u2, u3, and the 'worlds' series.
[20:34:55] <NorwegianRockCat> Wow!
[20:35:00] <NorwegianRockCat> Good for you.
[20:35:03] <Darrenor64> u2 is trippy and weird.
[20:35:08] <NorwegianRockCat> I've heard that.
[20:35:20] <NorwegianRockCat> By the time I picked up the ultimate collection...
[20:35:31] <NorwegianRockCat> I was too busy with other things to really have any time to turn to it.
[20:35:51] <NorwegianRockCat> It just sits in a pile with my huge pile of games that I should play someday.
[20:36:01] <Darrenor64> On the old boxes they used to have advertised "Over 200 hours of gameplay!"
[20:36:04] <NorwegianRockCat> And it's not like their bad games.
[20:36:10] <NorwegianRockCat> That's for sure.
[20:36:12] <Darrenor64> for u4
[20:36:16] <NorwegianRockCat> Well...
[20:36:23] <NorwegianRockCat> I played through it in xu4.
[20:36:30] <NorwegianRockCat> just to make sure it was winnable...
[20:36:37] <Darrenor64> on your ios version?
[20:36:43] <NorwegianRockCat> No, not yet.
[20:36:49] <NorwegianRockCat> Though that needs to be done as well.
[20:37:03] <NorwegianRockCat> I think I've actually fixed many of the game-stopping bugs.
[20:37:23] <Darrenor64> have you committed to SVN yet?
[20:37:25] <NorwegianRockCat> I'm sure what's on the simulator is much more playable than earlier versions I had shown.
[20:37:27] <NorwegianRockCat> Oh?
[20:37:31] <NorwegianRockCat> You gave me access?
[20:37:39] <NorwegianRockCat> And you want it all now?
[20:38:02] <Darrenor64> If you don't have it, I'll add you to the list. There's no hurry, I won't have a chance to work on it until next month.
[20:38:15] <NorwegianRockCat> Well, I don't have access...
[20:38:21] <NorwegianRockCat> You can give me that if you want.
[20:38:24] <Darrenor64> but it might be good to merge your fixes into the xu4 codebase, and see if we can still produce working builds.
[20:38:32] <NorwegianRockCat> Yes, sure.
[20:38:43] <NorwegianRockCat> I think I should spend a little time here before I do that.
[20:38:49] <NorwegianRockCat> I can take a look at it this weekend.
[20:38:58] <NorwegianRockCat> Then I can give it a shot.
[20:39:04] <Darrenor64> then after that, we can start coming up with abstract views, which you could map to ios views.
[20:39:15] <NorwegianRockCat> Yes, sure...
[20:39:35] <Darrenor64> of course, i'll have to go to all coordinate offset references in the code, and have them start at 0
[20:39:36] <NorwegianRockCat> Though really, you could just take the U4View I have now and put in in some viewcontroller for iPhone.
[20:40:04] <NorwegianRockCat> I'd need to make it a bit more flexible, but that would get you very far.
[20:40:08] <Darrenor64> what i mean to do is separate the conceptual views in xu4 -- ie: a mapview, a character view, moonphase view, etc.
[20:40:20] <NorwegianRockCat> Ah, yes, that's important...
[20:40:27] <Darrenor64> then we can rearrange them as we please on the various ios interfaces.
[20:40:30] <NorwegianRockCat> though screen.h gets you a good ways there.
[20:40:47] <NorwegianRockCat> At least functions like updateMoons() and what not abstract it away.
[20:40:56] <NorwegianRockCat> So, it shouldn't be as much work as we think.
[20:41:01] <NorwegianRockCat> But, still,
[20:41:08] <NorwegianRockCat> My idea was to get a working game...
[20:41:15] <NorwegianRockCat> see if that could make it to the app store...
[20:41:25] <NorwegianRockCat> and then start polishing those bits.
[20:41:40] <NorwegianRockCat> I'm more or less at a working game...
[20:41:51] <Darrenor64> yeah, pretty much.
[20:41:53] <NorwegianRockCat> So, now is about the right time to start looking at that stuff.
[20:42:07] <Darrenor64> exactly. that's why i was so pleased to see your progress.
[20:42:27] <NorwegianRockCat> Anyway, did you contact those people that wanted to do a U4 port to iOS?
[20:42:37] <NorwegianRockCat> Are they still interested in that stuff?
[20:42:52] <Darrenor64> Unknown. They may very well be doing their own.
[20:43:03] <NorwegianRockCat> It might be worth contacting them again?
[20:43:13] <NorwegianRockCat> Anyway, let's see where we get first.
[20:43:21] <Darrenor64> But I'll try to find out. I told the mutual contact that you had made separate significant progress -- I'll update him now that I've seen it.
[20:43:29] <NorwegianRockCat> OK.
[20:43:35] <Darrenor64> It's WTF dragon -- the guy who runs ultimaaeira.com
[20:43:43] <NorwegianRockCat> Ah, OK.
[20:43:46] <NorwegianRockCat> I must admit...
[20:43:47] <Darrenor64> that's where I found the "make u4 for ios challenge"
[20:43:57] <NorwegianRockCat> I just came up with this when the iPad was announced..
[20:44:10] <NorwegianRockCat> and then I saw that entry many months later...
[20:44:20] <NorwegianRockCat> and I was like, "Oh! others are interested"
[20:44:28] <NorwegianRockCat> And then I saw you working on it again...
[20:44:39] <NorwegianRockCat> and I knew I should scramble and get things back to the main tree.
[20:45:40] <Darrenor64> there are probably others as well. i think it's key that we work together, and remember that u4 doesn't really belong to any of us (yet in a sense it belongs to all of us).
[20:46:02] <Darrenor64> xu4 is a good base. and at the very least, we're improving it.
[20:46:03] <NorwegianRockCat> Yes. I didn't know the history was so... storied :-)
[20:46:06] <NorwegianRockCat> True.
[20:46:16] <NorwegianRockCat> I did remove a memory leak this last weekend..
[20:46:22] <Darrenor64> ooh, where?
[20:46:22] <NorwegianRockCat> and everyone benefits from that.
[20:46:27] <Darrenor64> hahah.
[20:46:31] <NorwegianRockCat> in the may loader.
[20:46:36] <NorwegianRockCat> err map loader.
[20:46:44] <NorwegianRockCat> let me see...
[20:47:11] <NorwegianRockCat> yes, maploader.cpp
[20:47:29] <Darrenor64> brb.
[20:47:33] <NorwegianRockCat> We would leak "unamed" people objects in towns that didn't have the maximum number of people.
[20:47:58] <NorwegianRockCat> Probably not a big deal on a desktop machine...
[20:48:13] <NorwegianRockCat> But still bad, whenever you would enter a town.
[20:48:19] <Darrenor64> agreed.
[20:49:20] <NorwegianRockCat> http://pastebin.com/RC3d5kWG
[20:49:25] <NorwegianRockCat> If you are interested...
[20:49:30] <NorwegianRockCat> but it will be in soon enough.
[20:50:03] <NorwegianRockCat> Anyway, I'll work on the patch this weekend...
[20:50:11] <NorwegianRockCat> As I think my week will be rather full.
[20:50:20] <Darrenor64> awesome, thanks.
[20:50:23] <NorwegianRockCat> This was the only night I'm actually at home.
[20:50:33] <NorwegianRockCat> OK.
[20:50:42] <Darrenor64> i can relate. i've been very very busy latley too
[20:50:42] <NorwegianRockCat> Nice finally getting a chance to talk :-)
[20:50:53] <Darrenor64> which is probably why it was so funnily difficult to contact each other.
[20:51:08] <NorwegianRockCat> Ah, people need to have lives you know.
[20:51:10] <NorwegianRockCat> :-)
[20:51:37] <NorwegianRockCat> Anyway, when I worked at Trolltech I had to work with another guy on the Mac team...
[20:51:42] <NorwegianRockCat> and he lived in S.F.
[20:51:43] <Darrenor64> i'll add you to svn asap so you commit all of your stuff in good time.
[20:51:50] <NorwegianRockCat> So it was always a nine-hour difference.
[20:51:53] <Darrenor64> you worked at trolltech? cool!
[20:51:54] <NorwegianRockCat> Sure.
[20:51:56] <NorwegianRockCat> Yup.
[20:52:04] <NorwegianRockCat> Up until 2009.
[20:52:05] <Darrenor64> I really like Qt.
[20:52:09] <NorwegianRockCat> Yeah.
[20:52:15] <NorwegianRockCat> I actually made a port to Qt first...
[20:52:20] <NorwegianRockCat> well, just the image stuff.
[20:52:23] <Darrenor64> a u4 port?
[20:52:26] <NorwegianRockCat> So I would know how it worked.
[20:52:29] <NorwegianRockCat> Yes, sort of.
[20:52:37] <NorwegianRockCat> It was very prototypish.
[20:52:48] <NorwegianRockCat> But I still have the patch lying around.
[20:52:55] <NorwegianRockCat> I don't know if it works still, but I have it.
[20:53:07] <NorwegianRockCat> It still uses SDL for the main event loop.
[20:53:20] <NorwegianRockCat> Because of things that we had done in Qt for Mac, that was no problem.
[20:53:30] <NorwegianRockCat> Which made me happy we had made those choices.
[20:53:32] <NorwegianRockCat> :-)
[20:53:35] <Darrenor64> ha.
[20:53:53] <NorwegianRockCat> But it was very much a proof-of-concept.
[20:54:02] <NorwegianRockCat> I think it was also how I dumped all the images at the time.
[20:54:08] * NorwegianRockCat shrugs.
[20:54:08] <Darrenor64> my email address is the same as my nick, but at gmail
[20:54:15] <NorwegianRockCat> OK.
[20:58:47] <-- NorwegianRockCat has left IRC (Quit: running through my todo list)
[22:09:07] --> Kirben has joined #xu4
[22:09:07] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben
[23:36:13] <Darrenor64> Hi Kirben.
[23:36:35] <Kirben> Hi